HAL Zaandam / Sept 29th Cancelled!

[Tinknock50]

..................

 

As a board we really DO need to be more aware of how to respond to newcomers. What we've experienced, over months or years posting here, may seem obvious to us; but those who are new here have NO perspective upon which to judge our statements or even WHY we will post what we post and the way we post. It is also true that, thanks to the nature of the board-posting media and the conventions which go with it, it can sometimes be easy to either misunderstand or misinterpret what another person is attempting to say; it's easy to read intentions and agenda INTO what another writes which simply are not there. It's easy to see expression and mood and attitude where entirely different facts may apply. If that's true for EVERYONE -- even "seasoned" veterans of these boards -- is it any surprise to us that such is the case for people who are new to this venue?

 

Thanks Revneal,

I am happy you understood my concern. I know my limitations when it comes to being "articulate", but you still saw my point.:)

 

I have expressed this concern on previous threads. While it is fun for "us guys" to banter back and forth, I would love to hear from more posters. I often wonder how many people are scared off from posting because they might not express all the details in their first post, or like me, sometimes have trouble articulating exactly what I mean....and so they just decide to "skip it."

 

You will often see someone finally posting after being a member for years....makes me wonder if some of us have scared them off too.

 

New blood is a good thing....let's encourage it.:)

 

Not just stepping off the soapbox now......but falling! Ouch!

[AlohaPride]

This is the OPs first experience here, so you never could have been "fooled once". Someone else "fooled" you. That saying applies to a particular person, not people in general.....or people "who sound like them". And on top of that, the OP posted a concern that was important to him.

 

In my quote I wasn't even talking about the OP. Actually, I haven't really talked about the OP as much as I have tried to offer reasons for why the responders responded the way they did.

 

The OP would not have been Fooled, but would have possibly been the fooler.

 

Let me make it clearer - "Fool CC Board Members once, shame on new OP. Fool CC Board Members twice, shame on the Board Members." As Greg said,

In THIS particular case, however, the initial impression I had was one of a "do-over" of a prior thread. And that impression would have been the same had it been a poster who had posted a thousand or ten thousand times before. It was just STRANGE that here we were, within just one month, seeing yet ANOTHER claim of a cancelled cruise. Not that I necessarily doubted the report ... just that it seemed so strange to see yet ANOTHER one, so quickly.

 

I also said once a person has been burned they find it hard to trust other people (New OPs) in similar situations. Not unlike the battered woman syndrome where once she has been abused by ONE man she is then fearful of ALL men....this is a drastic example but it shows that once members of this board have been "made a fool" by ONE new OP they (members of this board) may think twice about ALL new OPs. <- its a natural reaction.

 

Further, I understand that the OP has legitimate concerns! If I were in the OP's shoes I probably would have acted the same way (except I probably would have included a little more info). I never discounted that the issue was important to the OP.

 

Honestly, I have no idea how this turned into a debate. As I said earlier, SHOULD we trust every new poster? Sure. Is this realistic? Not necessarily. It's nothing against this new poster, just a generalization.

[twoatsea]

Bubbajones - I am very sorry that you were treated badly by HAL & by folks on this board. Obviously, you did not deserve either. Personnally, I do not understand what a "1 day cruise" has to do with anything. You obviously wanted the day cruise, you paid for the day cruise, & you even stated that the day cruise was important to you - that pretty much does it. Just because some folks only take cruises of 2 weeks or more, does not negate the importance of a 7 day cruise to others - same with your one day cruise. I hope you get proper restitution from HAL, but I realize it may not happen. HAL is not consistently good at handling "bad" situations, in my experience. For some people, that is enough to run the other way - to other cruiselines; for some, it doesn't matter - they want HAL. But good luck to you in this area.

 

Regarding your treatment on this board - this is not a rare situation. Other newbies (& some who have been here a while) have expressed the same as you, to no avail. Basically, it is the same on this board as it is in "real life". Some people are rude, others are not. Some rude people will at least acknowledge & apologize for their rudeness. Amazingly, others don't even recognize their rudeness - they blame it on someone else, usually the person they are treating rudely - such as, it's your fault I treated you badly - you didn't give me all the information I needed in order to be nice to you; you are wrong; what you are saying is not that important; you are exaggerating; I wasn't mean to you, you are just too sensitive; well, what did you do to fix it; you don't understand how things work on message boards; ship happens.:rolleyes: They do not seem to know the appropriate response when someone expresses themselves = "I'm sorry". Of course, I'm sorry from those who continue to repeat the behavior is not worth anything either!

 

Soooo, hope you stick around, if you have an interest, & as in real life, ignore the rude ones. I like the way you handled yourself. You did not use the rudeness of others as an excuse to be rude yourself. You were open enough to state that you did not like the way you were treated. We need folks like you on this board so the rest can enjoy it more. :)

[Tinknock50]

Bubbajones - I am very sorry that you were treated badly by HAL & by folks on this board. Obviously, you did not deserve either. Personnally, I do not understand what a "1 day cruise" has to do with anything. You obviously wanted the day cruise, you paid for the day cruise, & you even stated that the day cruise was important to you - that pretty much does it. Just because some folks only take cruises of 2 weeks or more, does not negate the importance of a 7 day cruise to others - same with your one day cruise. I hope you get proper restitution from HAL, but I realize it may not happen. HAL is not consistently good at handling "bad" situations, in my experience. For some people, that is enough to run the other way - to other cruiselines; for some, it doesn't matter - they want HAL. But good luck to you in this area.

 

Regarding your treatment on this board - this is not a rare situation. Other newbies (& some who have been here a while) have expressed the same as you, to no avail. Basically, it is the same on this board as it is in "real life". Some people are rude, others are not. Some rude people will at least acknowledge & apologize for their rudeness. Amazingly, others don't even recognize their rudeness - they blame it on someone else, usually the person they are treating rudely - such as, it's your fault I treated you badly - you didn't give me all the information I needed in order to be nice to you; you are wrong; what you are saying is not that important; you are exaggerating; I wasn't mean to you, you are just too sensitive; well, what did you do to fix it; you don't understand how things work on message boards; ship happens.:rolleyes: They do not seem to know the appropriate response when someone expresses themselves = "I'm sorry". Of course, I'm sorry from those who continue to repeat the behavior is not worth anything either!

 

Soooo, hope you stick around, if you have an interest, & as in real life, ignore the rude ones. I like the way you handled yourself. You did not use the rudeness of others as an excuse to be rude yourself. You were open enough to state that you did not like the way you were treated. We need folks like you on this board so the rest can enjoy it more. :)

 

Very well put....thanks for that.:)

[hrhdhd]

Bubbajones - I am very sorry that you were treated badly by HAL & by folks on this board. Obviously, you did not deserve either. Personnally, I do not understand what a "1 day cruise" has to do with anything. You obviously wanted the day cruise, you paid for the day cruise, & you even stated that the day cruise was important to you - that pretty much does it. Just because some folks only take cruises of 2 weeks or more, does not negate the importance of a 7 day cruise to others - same with your one day cruise. I hope you get proper restitution from HAL, but I realize it may not happen. HAL is not consistently good at handling "bad" situations, in my experience. For some people, that is enough to run the other way - to other cruiselines; for some, it doesn't matter - they want HAL. But good luck to you in this area.

 

Regarding your treatment on this board - this is not a rare situation. Other newbies (& some who have been here a while) have expressed the same as you, to no avail. Basically, it is the same on this board as it is in "real life". Some people are rude, others are not. Some rude people will at least acknowledge & apologize for their rudeness. Amazingly, others don't even recognize their rudeness - they blame it on someone else, usually the person they are treating rudely - such as, it's your fault I treated you badly - you didn't give me all the information I needed in order to be nice to you; you are wrong; what you are saying is not that important; you are exaggerating; I wasn't mean to you, you are just too sensitive; well, what did you do to fix it; you don't understand how things work on message boards; ship happens.:rolleyes: They do not seem to know the appropriate response when someone expresses themselves = "I'm sorry". Of course, I'm sorry from those who continue to repeat the behavior is not worth anything either!

 

Soooo, hope you stick around, if you have an interest, & as in real life, ignore the rude ones. I like the way you handled yourself. You did not use the rudeness of others as an excuse to be rude yourself. You were open enough to state that you did not like the way you were treated. We need folks like you on this board so the rest can enjoy it more. :)

 

TwoAtSea:

 

Mentally composing my thoughts about this thread as I was reading, I was happy to find your post at the end. You have hit the nail on the head, especially regarding the relative importance of a 1-day cruise. The title of this thread indicates, if only on second reading, that this was a 1-day cruise, and in any case, why does that matter?

 

It is difficult for a newbie (myself included--don't know my current post count) to know what honest questions to post or why people react with such intensity when a newcomer posts an opinion or a situation. I've taken 2 HAL cruises and am booked for a third. I like HAL. However, HAL is not perfect, and the occasional post or thread about some snafu in customer service should not result in the automatic assumption that someone is lying or mistaken.

 

I hope to continue learning the ups and downs of cruising with HAL, and I thank the OP for providing his experience and perspective.

[Bramcruiser]

Thanks twoatsea. As someone who works in business and has to deal with our firm's clients on a regular basis I do understand exactly what you mean. Communication is a two way streak and sometimes its unfortunate that both sides see the same issue differently. Perceptions of the well-engrained (the defenders of HAL) are far different from those of the new arrivals.

 

I was amazed I was the only one who knew that this was a one night cruise he was talking about right from the first post and just assumed that our verteran posters knew enough to figure that one out. Yet, obviously it did need to be explained. I'm not faulting any one side though. The cycnics have been burned enough in the past and the exact timing of this post was unfortunate. However, our OP didn't realize he had to detail himself fully either. No story can be legitimized in the very first post and simple questions and answers will help unravel the great mysteries of the universe. People writeing gloriously about something or ranting in a snit usually write out of emotion so it takes time to fill out the details. I know that in my business dealings I am always shaking my head at the first answer I get and I usually have to dig deeper to get a response that is actually an answer to the question I originally asked. So I like to think I take the same approach here.

 

Note though - there is a huge difference between the answer to a question and the answer you want to hear. In that respect there were details that for us we should not pass judgement on. Still, one can point out that we should put all things into perspective. Not really sure if people were passing judgement - thinking its more of the perspective angle - but sometimes it can sound that way and that is the part that is unfortunate.

 

David

[Tinknock50]

Thanks twoatsea. As someone who works in business and has to deal with our firm's clients on a regular basis I do understand exactly what you mean. Communication is a two way streak and sometimes its unfortunate that both sides see the same issue differently. Perceptions of the well-engrained (the defenders of HAL) are far different from those of the new arrivals.

 

I was amazed I was the only one who knew that this was a one night cruise he was talking about right from the first post and just assumed that our verteran posters knew enough to figure that one out. Yet, obviously it did need to be explained. I'm not faulting any one side though. The cycnics have been burned enough in the past and the exact timing of this post was unfortunate. However, our OP didn't realize he had to detail himself fully either. No story can be legitimized in the very first post and simple questions and answers will help unravel the great mysteries of the universe. People writeing gloriously about something or ranting in a snit usually write out of emotion so it takes time to fill out the details. I know that in my business dealings I am always shaking my head at the first answer I get and I usually have to dig deeper to get a response that is actually an answer to the question I originally asked. So I like to think I take the same approach here.

 

Note though - there is a huge difference between the answer to a question and the answer you want to hear. In that respect there were details that for us we should not pass judgement on. Still, one can point out that we should put all things into perspective. Not really sure if people were passing judgement - thinking its more of the perspective angle - but sometimes it can sound that way and that is the part that is unfortunate.

 

David

 

Very insightful, David.

[dozer]

Hi Bubba-

I understand exactly how you feel about the response you have received from this board. I see that some are still referring to a recent "suspicious" posting regarding a cancelled cruise. Perhaps you are not aware that about 2 weeks ago I innocently posted a statement saying that my Oosterdam cruise was cancelled because that is what my TA told me. After 3 days of panic and confusion, I found out that the cruise wasn't cancelled, my TA "thought that the message said that the cruise was cancelled due to propeller trouble." I have to suspect that she is lying, how could she be so stupid? She claimed some disability that made it difficult for her to read the computer screen. I'm booked on another cruise, have an upgrade and a 25% refund, but, Of course, I will never deal with that agent again. Anyway, it's frustrating to come to this board for information and be treated like a troublemaking liar. It is not a very welcome reception, but I am grateful for the people who gave me support and encouragement to get to the bottom of my dilemma. I personnally don't hold HAL responsible, either for my booking problems or for the nature of this board.

[terrascape]

Back to the subject of the cancelled Zaandam cruise, my DW and I are doing the one nighter from Seattle to Vancouver on the Westerdam. I agree that a one nighter is hardly a cruise... but it works out well for us as we have not tried the Vista class ships yet. Have been on all the "S" class, two of the "R"s plus P. What a great way to get a "feel" for the larger class of ship. Better to find out that just maybe it is "not our cup of tea" on a one night cruise rather than on a seven+ day cruise. The other advantage of this one nighter is we can take Amtrak from our home in Edmonds to Seattle, get aboard the ship, have a relaxing afternoon exploring the ship, have a relaxing dinner and evening & then spend a full day in Vancouver Monday before catching Amtrak home on Monday evening & back home at 10 PM. Regarding the Zaandam, a good friend of mine and his DW had booked the one night cruise. He also informed me last Sunday that the cruise had been cancelled. He called HAL twice to get an explanation. He was told "We are sorry, we have no information as to why it is cancelled, and you will receive a full refund".

Would I be in the habit of taking one night cruises - no way, but what a great way to get to the beautiful city of Vancouver!

[Tinknock50]

terrascape,

Thanks for bringing this thread back on topic.:)

 

Interesting outlook on booking a one nighter.

 

dozer,

Good to hear from you. Glad to hear you did get some help from this board.:)

[RevNeal]

Regarding the Zaandam, a good friend of mine and his DW had booked the one night cruise. He also informed me last Sunday that the cruise had been cancelled. He called HAL twice to get an explanation. He was told "We are sorry, we have no information as to why it is cancelled, and you will receive a full refund".

 

I really wish we could find out why this one-night cruise was cancelled. Did another group book the ship in-full? Is there some maintenance that needs to be done? WHY was the one-night cruise cancelled?

 

If we don't find out before, I think I'll ask around about it when I board in October.

[Tinknock50]

I really wish we could find out why this one-night cruise was cancelled. Did another group book the ship in-full? Is there some maintenance that needs to be done? WHY was the one-night cruise cancelled?

 

If we don't find out before, I think I'll ask around about it when I board in October.

 

I would like to know too. I can understand Bubbajones frustration still waiting for an explaination from HAL ,or anyone else.

[the2ofus]

I just looked at the thread Dozer started. I think part of the problem with this board is it's real-time aspect. Dozer's thread is a good example.

 

Dozer's thread was started at around 4:30 p.m. on a weekday/workday afternoon. The first 40 or so responses were supportive, offered insights as to why his cruise was cancelled and suggested the problem might be the TA and not the cruiseline or the ship. Of the first 57 posts there were only 8 skeptical posts, which occurred late at night when no one would have a chance to obtain clarifying information. No one ever called Dozer a liar, just wondered if a troll was at work yet again. Trolls are a fact of life on CC, especially when school is out and kids get silly.

 

Within about 22 hours of the first posting, and on a work day, Dozer got back to us with enough information to make clear that the post was legit. By that point, even the first doubter had made efforts to help find out if the TA was telling the truth.

 

All in all, out of 157 posts on that thread, only 8 doubted and within a very short period of time were proven wrong. Dozer got good support and good advice. That's really what this board is all about.

 

It's not a case of guilty until proven innocent. "Just give us the facts, Ma'am" as Sargent Friday used to say.

[RevNeal]

All in all, out of 157 posts on that thread, only 8 doubted and within a very short period of time were proven wrong. Dozer got good support and good advice. That's really what this board is all about.

 

It's not a case of guilty until proven innocent. "Just give us the facts, Ma'am" as Sargent Friday used to say.

 

Now now, the2ofus ... you should know better than to detail facts and non-hyperbolic analysis on this thread! :) That's a venial sin! Your penance will be to order me a Scotch and soda in the Ocean Bar aboard the Zaandam next month! :D

[RuthC]

Now now, the2ofus ... you should know better than to detail facts and non-hyperbolic analysis on this thread! :) That's a venial sin! Your penance will be to order me a Scotch and soda in the Ocean Bar aboard the Zaandam next month! :D

Don't do it, Jane! Don't do it! Make him join us in the Piano Lounge. If we get him enough drinks maybe we can get him to sing, too!

(I need pictures of my own to hold against him, you know. ;) )

[the2ofus]

But Ruth, maybe his singing IS a sin?

 

I'm willing to lure him into the Piano Lounge, but the penance for his actually singing will fall on you!!

 

Greg - mea culpa! I promise not to do it again;) . Scotch and Soda in the Piano Bar. Will you drink Dewar's or do you go higher on the scale?

[RuthC]

I'm willing to lure him into the Piano Lounge, but the penance for his actually singing will fall on you!!

It's a deal. (picture handshake.)

[RevNeal]

LOL!

I will happily take that drink in the Piano bar! :D

 

And I'm a GOOD singer! :D

[RevNeal]

Jane ... Johnny Walkers ... Black Label. :D

[AlohaPride]

Hi Bubba-

I understand exactly how you feel about the response you have received from this board. I see that some are still referring to a recent "suspicious" posting regarding a cancelled cruise. Perhaps you are not aware that about 2 weeks ago I innocently posted a statement saying that my Oosterdam cruise was cancelled because that is what my TA told me. After 3 days of panic and confusion, I found out that the cruise wasn't cancelled, my TA "thought that the message said that the cruise was cancelled due to propeller trouble." I have to suspect that she is lying, how could she be so stupid? She claimed some disability that made it difficult for her to read the computer screen. I'm booked on another cruise, have an upgrade and a 25% refund, but, Of course, I will never deal with that agent again. Anyway, it's frustrating to come to this board for information and be treated like a troublemaking liar. It is not a very welcome reception, but I am grateful for the people who gave me support and encouragement to get to the bottom of my dilemma. I personnally don't hold HAL responsible, either for my booking problems or for the nature of this board.

 

Hi Dozer,

 

I just want to let you know that it's not your post we have been talking about. So, please don't feel like you've been singled out. It's a completely different thread that has been discussed here :o

 

Your situation was horrible! I'm glad you have gotten to the bottom of the problem with your TA. I'm still waiting for contact from the Agency at which my TA works. I'm nervous about the confrontation that might occur...

 

Welcome back to the boards!!

 

Greg, Maybe I'll give you a few of my drink tickets at the Luau. I'd like to see you dance tahitian!! :D

[Tinknock50]

Now now, the2ofus ... you should know better than to detail facts and non-hyperbolic analysis on this thread! :) That's a venial sin! Your penance will be to order me a Scotch and soda in the Ocean Bar aboard the Zaandam next month! :D

 

Revneal,

As you know from being in the "biz", the best way to not sin is to avoid the occasions of sin. So here are some of my suggestions to tweak this board to avoid "detail fact and non-hyperbolic sins".

 

1. An Earl Warning System (EWS) that would flash in red letters....

 

WARNING ! This is the posters first time posting! This is the posters first time posting!

 

This would save time having to check profiles and thus streamline the detection process.

 

2. An instant delete system (IDS) ......this would immediately kick in and delete the posters first post if it is negative toward the cruiseline. This would "Nip it in the bud" as Barney Phyfe used to say.

 

3. Negative/Positive Talley (NPT)..... this tote board would appear after each post saving the effort of having to go back through pages of posts to add them up.

 

I do see some obvious drawbacks to the system.

 

1. Drink penances could not be meted out....and we know that would be BAD!:eek:

 

2. New posters might be discouraged from ever posting. But who needs them when we have each other!:D

[RuthC]

Great idea, Sean! I can just feel the love.

[Tinknock50]

Great idea, Sean! I can just feel the love.

 

Thanks Ruth......I did get the "warm fuzzys" as I was developing the system.:D

[the2ofus]

Sean.....

Or maybe everyone, newbie and seasoned HAL cruiser could just remember that when you are the new kid on the block, nobody knows you until they get to know you.

 

I've moved many times in my life. When you are new in town you can't be thin-skinned or your feelings will get hurt in the process of finding new friends. New people always have a break-in, fit-in period when they feel like they are on the outside looking in, maybe even envious of the in-crowd. (And that's when people can see your expression and hear the tone of voice.) Why should an internet chat board be expected to behave any differently?

[Tinknock50]

Ruth,

 

I still need to work out the bugs in the system.......trying to work in a box of chocolates as a reward for being good.:)