Pod Problems--Would You Sail M-Class?

[Candlelight]

Hi Folks.

 

There seem to be a number of threads which alternate between negativity about Celebrity, and positive remarks by those who love Celebrity. For newcomers to bulletin boards, these are known as "flame wars", and almost any subject on these boards has provoked "flame wars" at some point. Examples of these include: smuggling liquor onboard, gifts for crew members, tipping issues, hogging/reserving pool deck chairs for prolonged periods, decline vs. improvement in service over the past few years, whether certain ships are shabby vs. "mature" or "classic". These posts seem to have taken a black-or-white approach, without acknowledging the possibility that grey exists, or even that black or white is the truth.

 

Consider the following: On a given (hypothetical) sailing, 5% of the passengers become ill with norovirus. If one supposes that 2000 passengers are on board, that means that 100 passengers will have a terrible cruise. By doing the math, we see that 1900 of the 2000 will be unaffected. But if one of the one hundred sick passengers describes the trip as horrible, it won't be a lie. And if one of the 1900 healthy passengers describes the trip as great, it also won't be a lie.

 

So when somebody says "the beds are terrible", and another says "I loved the bedding", these are not mutually exclusive statements. They can be both be true.

 

In the above example, if 95% of the passengers had a great cruise, and that's probably an outstanding result. Think of any other business that has a 95% satisfaction rate: Microsoft? No way. Dell? Nope. Wal-Mart? Sorry. Krispy Kreme? Just closed all their stores in Arizona.

 

Another point is this: statistics apply to groups--not individuals. If I tell you that you have a 1 in a million change of being killed by a lightning strike this year (completely made-up statistic), you don't die one- one millionth this year. You are in one category or the other (alive vs. dead), with 100% certainty. So if I were to say that 99% of passengers will have a great cruise (also made-up), that still means that a 20 of the passengers had a terrible cruise, and it won't comfort them to know that the other 1,980 had a fantastic time.

 

People have lately been discussing whether the known issues of the pod propulsion system failures, which lead to curtailed itineraries, followed by unscheduled dry docks are a just a further example of how Celebrity doesn't care, service has declined, Captain's Club is worthless, Customer Service is an oxymoron, etc. All of these statements may correlate closely with your opinion of Celebrity. But let's make the distinction between opinion and facts.

 

Fact: Millennium-class ships (Millennium, Summit, Infinity, Constellation) have a record of unpredictable, unscheduled pod failures which lead to altered itineraries and cancelled cruises. The huge majority of cruises take place as scheduled and on the announced itineraries. The huge majority of passengers have never HEARD of "pods", nor in all probability will they ever.

 

Opinion: The risk to ME of a pod failure leading to an altered itinerary or cancelled cruise is one of the following: unacceptably high so I won't sail on this class ship; is higher than I'd like, but I'll take a chance, or; is probably not going to affect me, so here's my reservation.

 

Here's how I have weighed my decision: "What is the RISK of being wrong vs. what is the COST of being wrong?" I'll explain:

 

Let's say you consider whether to wear a seat belt while leaving on your drive to work tomorrow. The RISK of your getting into a crash is very, very small but the COST of your making the wrong decision can be your life. So most people wear seatbelts. But compare this: you are picking up a frozen pizza at the grocery store, and there are 30 different kinds: there is a high risk that a pizza you pick at random will be bad--but the cost? Only $5, so big deal. The COST (or personal consequences) of choosing incorrectly is so low that a lot of people buy pizzas this way.

 

So back to the original question: "Would I sail an M-Class ship". The answer I give is framed by the discussion above. I would answer it thus: "I would sail an M-class, only if it were a vacation I didn't mind if it were changed or cancelled."

 

If I had to see a specific port on a specific day (and the trip would be _ruined_ if that didn't happen exactly as planned), I wouldn't take the trip on M-class. If this were the "trip of a lifetime" and there were limited chances for re-do's (ie, Mom has cancer and has always dreamed of seeing fill-in-the-blank, and all of us kids, spouses, and grandkids are going to come from far and wide to make that dream come true for her) I would absolutely NOT take an M-class. For me, if a given voyage is lengthy, unique, or very expensive--I might lean away from M-class if there were acceptable alternatives, either on another class ship or even (dare I say it?) another line.

 

But if you and your spouse are wanting to take some random trip to the Caribbean, stay on a ship for a few days, have somebody else cook and clean, feed you 10+ times per day, entertain you, massage you, sit by the pool, feed the slots, do some shopping and beachgoing, AND have nothing preventing you from rescheduling, then book on M-class and you'll probably (there's the statistics again) have a fantastic time.

 

Cheers.

[CaliforniaDreamin]

I have sailed with no pod problems on 6 cruises and with pod problem on 1 cruise. Missed two scheduled ports and slow getting to Hubbard Glacier and left it early, and the Inside Passage delay angered many.

 

Compensation from X, for me, was very generous. For part of this I must say thanks to the protesters on board Summit 5 May 06 W/C Alaska cruise.

 

I post this information only in response to OP and not to rei-gnite this controversial subject.

 

I am a little curious as to why the OP decided to post this lesson in statistics at this time.

[CaliforniaDreamin]

I do agree with the OP's reasoning for and against taking a cruise on M-class ships. Anyone planning to sail them should examine the history of these problems prior to booking.

 

Have a great cruise wherever you go.

[C 2 C]

Statistically speaking, CruiseCritic posters seldom make up as many as 5% of Celebrity cruisers.... otherwise roll calls would be larger. Does that mean that 90 to 95% of cruisers are sailing in blissful ignorance of the potential problems from NLV and pods?

I have followed the pod issue for years. I had two Infinity Hawaii cruises cancelled, and was compensated :D, due to pod problems. I want to win the lottery again. I continue to book M-ships but I won't book my own air.

I would be upset if I had paid a premium to get to a port, eg Istanbul, only to have it cancelled.

I believe Celebrity is learning from potential lawsuits that it must change. Just witness last week's Zenith policy of letting cruisers cancel boarding when a hurricane threatened Bermuda. Last year's diversion without compensation, and lawsuit VS RCL was a wakeup call.

Savvy travelers must prepare for unexpected issues be it for security, weather, fire, propulsion, steering, NLV, theft, strike, murder, suicide, drugs, icebergs, plane crashes, delays..( sorry their are so many things to worry about that if I list them all I won't travel)

[Ships R Great]

Very interesting OP. I am booked on Summit to Hawaii in four weeks and I hope all goes well. If it doesn't, "oh well". There are manymore things in my life that could cause grief and unhappinees. A cruise, however much looked forward to, is still just a vacation, not alife altering event---unless the ship sinks, of course.

 

Hi, Arno!

[mahdnc]

 

Fact: Millennium-class ships (Millennium, Summit, Infinity, Constellation) have a record of unpredictable, unscheduled pod failures which lead to altered itineraries and cancelled cruises.

 

Since the Millennium ships have been launched beginning in 2000, the pod problems have affected each of the 4 ships unevenly.

 

Infinity and Summit have it the worst. Infinity has been taken out of service 6 times to deal with the pods (I am including the recent electrical problem this year as well). It has occurred faithfully once every calendar year of her existence. Summit has been taken out of service for pod work 4 times so far since her Oct 2001 inauguration (almost 5 years old).

 

On the other end of the spectrum, Constellation has not had a single pod failure yet. Millennium has had only 1 failure.

 

So far on average, the service outage to repair the pods is 11 days. It has been as short as 7 and as long as a full month.

Millennium has been affected once. Summit has not been so lucky--4 times

[charlielinda]

I've known about the "pod" problems for years and sailed on the Summit three times in the past two years and never had any reservation about making my plans. I would definately have no problems booking additional cruises on them -- I just figure that live happens and the chances are very slim that it will affect my cruise. I just wish I could cruise more often!

[tbelian]

Statistically speaking, CruiseCritic posters seldom make up as many as 5% of Celebrity cruisers....

 

In my opinion, this is the bottom line. This is also something that those who are passionate about their position (be it positive, or negative) fail to acknowledge.

 

Use your own judgement. "This" is not an accurate representation (statistically speaking) of what will actually happen on your cruise.

 

We are booked on Constellation in 1/07 and have previously sailed (without pod problems) on Infinity... full speed ahead!

[sal7202]

We too have known about pod problems for years, but have rolled the dice 3 times 2x on Summit, once on Constellation. At this point I believe we've pushed our luck far enough and our next 3 Celebrity cruises are on non-Millennium class ships. If Celebrity ever decides to actually deal with this problem in a proactive manner, or actually finds a way to solve the problem, we will once again consider a Millennium class ship

[greeneg]

Straightforward answer: I have and I would. Anything mechanical can and ultimately will break. Those failures are not predictable at any specific time and you cannot know in advance who will be affected. It's what happens after the failure and how that is handled that determines what our next steps are.

 

To this point, we have not had a problem with Celebrity's Customer Service, have always been treated fairly, and I for one, am not going to bash anyone on the basis of someone else's "reported" experiences.

 

Having said that, I do think that the pods and their related issues have been a concern for the M-Class vessels and I do appeciate why this question continues to worry people. My point would be that many more cruisers are unaffected by the pods ( or other mechanical issues on ALL ships, not just the Celebrity M-Class) than in fact, are inconvenienced by them. So, in my view at least, the "glass" in question is much more like 7/8 ths "full" rather than 1/8th empty.

 

The main idea behind cruising is to go and have fun, not to worry about problems that are really going to be for someone else to solve.

[cechase]

Yes we were well aware of the pod problems that have hounded Infinity.

We boarded Infinity in Vancouver on Sept. 3, 2006. We knew that the left pod could be used with the power reduced to 70% [saw the note on the left pod lever on the bridge during a tour there]. This meant, and we were advised that Infinity could only cruise at a maximum speed of 19 knots.

 

The result is that we made the departure and arrival time for every port on a revised itinerary during the cruise, except when we came through the Golden Gate in San Francisco on Wednesday. We were one half hour late - because of very heavy fog in San Francisco Bay. Going under the Golden Gate Bridge, you could hardly see any part of the bridge.

 

Not aware of any noro virius on our cruise. Hand globes were all over the ship and not just at the dining room and buffet. A neighbor had bronchitis and I ended up with a head cold after arriving home.

 

Now as to statistics, we had a very very active roll call group, with well over 80 registered. That is a very small sample, and at our second get together attended by about 30, everyone throughly enjoyed the cruise, even though some of us were disappointed by the food.

[cookie1207]

After two different cruises have been cancelled aboard the Infinity....we do not sail the M class ships anymore. We got stuck with two sets of airline tickets that we could not use. Not to mention the vaction plans that got scrapped.

[rebeccalouise]

I have been on the galaxy, millenium and constellation. I am not sure if these ships have the pods- but if they do- have not experienced any problems whatsoever.

For those that did, it sounds like Celebrity did compensate for some delays and cancellations.

If the worst thing that can happen is that I miss a port- I wouldn't care anyway because I love staying on board and if they give me a credit for the missed port- even better!

However, I don't think the vast majority of people are going to experience problems with the pods.

[sal7202]

Actually the worst thing that can happen is that the pod failure occurs on the cruise just before yours. Especially if you have booked your own air. Now Celebrity cancels your cruise so that the ship can go into dry dock for repairs, and you're stuck with airline tickets you don't need, and no vacation. Sure, they offer you compensation, maybe even generous compensation, but if your are like me your vacation slip has been put in at work, and that's your time off, use it anyway you want but you can't change it. So you have a lovely week or 10 days off work and nothing to do, maybe you can paint the house or work in the yard. :mad:

[cavkc]

Out of 3 cruises on Millennium class ships, two being Infinity, one Millennium, we had one of them cancelled.

 

The one which was cancelled was 2 days prior to sailing and we were already a 10 hour flight away from home. That said, we were very well treated, a 100% refund plus a free cruise.

 

You accept that things in life will go wrong, it is how the matter is dealt with that leaves a lasting impression, good or bad. We continue to sail Celebrity Millennium ships because we love the onboard experience and we felt we were more than fairly compensated.

[JORAY]

We have sailed on 3 different M-class ships (7 times about 90 nights worth) never had a pod problem. The only port changes have been due to weather(2times).

 

I don't know for a fact but I am willing to bet weather causes more port changes/delays then the "pods".

 

Regarding Airplane tickets, we had one cruise cancelled and Celebrity help us get our non-refundable ticket refunded 100%.

 

We like the M-Class ships and would sail on them any time the ports are what we want and this is true of any Celebrity ship. :D

 

Ray

[dkjretired]

to get us all to book air through Celebrity..Clever....

 

Seriously though, good thread from the OP, I would not hesitate but then I'm retired and can go whenever I want. When I was working, I had to give my vacation in June for the next calender year and it was unchangeable. I can sympathize with those who cannot change their cruises. I think the big problem is the other 95% who don't know about cruise critic and probably will never find out about the pod problems until something occurs. That is Celebritys dilemma and they should make attempts to resolve it.

[Sheik]

I almost booked an M-class vessel for march 2007, but I decided to choose for the Mercury and Brilliance of the Seas.

 

There is a reasonable chance of technical malfunction, so why taking a risk. When I get a full refund, I still have to pay 2 expensive transatlantic flighttickets. Besides of that, we're missing a vacation.

 

I know that life is full of taking risk, but in this case I don't take the risk. And yes, I know that I miss a great cruise-experience onboard the M-class ships, but my time will come when they fix the problem or introduce the new vessels in 2008-2009.

[mafig]

Not me. I'll wait for the new ships and in the meantime have fun on the other lines.

[Karynanne]

Candlelight, I like your logic. We will be taking out 3rd M-Class cruise, this year, next month - Hawaii, and even though Infinity is now in dry-dock, and hopefully the will have having the Pod issues rectified, there is always a possibility that the problem could arise again. Knowing that it may, will I be worried, and would it "ruin" my cruise....no. Would I be dissapointed if the cruise was cancelled....yes. But not crushed.

 

Karyn

[bbro]

I was on Infinity on 8/13. I knew she was having pod issues and was going slower. I knew that because of these boards. I took the risk because I honestly thought "it's not going to happen to MY cruise". But it did and we didn't do the Inside Passage. I have posted several times that the rest of the cruise was wonderful, missing the passage was my only disappointment. But I won't sail an M-Class again until they're fixed. I went through too much pre-cruise anxiety that ruined all the fun anticipation of taking a cuise. I think no matter which M-Class it was (regardless of past history), I'd still feel that hanging over my head the entire time. I'll have to stick to the older ships and the new ships.

[CKBob]

My family has cruised with Celebrity many times. Just being aware of the pod problem generally encourages us to sail on C-Class vessels. We did do the Mediterranen on the Millenium once and experienced minor pod trouble, which caused us a delay in reaching Egypt. The problem was solved while in port and the rest of the cruise went off without a hitch. We are also waiting for the new ships and hope they eventually solve their pod problems once and for all.

[DGH]

Everyday when you wake up in the morning you will make a decision as to how your day will be, it may be great or maybe terrible, it is up to you. You are the one who controls what your cruise will be like, by your attitude. You decide nobody else

 

I always have a great time

 

DGH

[Parrotgirl]

I've sailed on Summit twice and Millennium once without a hitch. Grandeur of the Seas had its problems last week. Star Princess had a fire and Crown Princess listed. There is always a risk of an incident of some kind so I'm not going to stop cruising just because a pod problem may happen, a fire may happen, a list may happen or even because of the aftermath of a hurricane. Yes - the odds are higher for a pod problem but there is always a chance of a problem on any line. Besides - I love sea days and missing a port (or ports) doesn't really bother me.

 

I have always loved Celebrity but my problem currently is with the itineraries. That's the only reason I've chosen other lines lately.

[greeneg]

I have always loved Celebrity but my problem currently is with the itineraries. That's the only reason I've chosen other lines lately.

 

Unlike a lot of the nitpicking that has been posted lately, this is really a valid concern to which Celebrity Management needs to pay a lot of attention if they intend to keep their long established customers coming back. I notice that RCCL plans to put Radiance in SE Asia next year; personally, I think that Celebrity should have been given some sort of presence in that area rather than RCCL. May well be that it's a question of hull availability, but it equally could be that Celebrity is on track to becoming the "step-sister" in management's view.

 

Just a quick vent to start the day....:)