Equal benefits for non-americans!!!!

[lahore]

I have tried to read all postings, but frankly got lost along the way. As far as I can tell, there are two issues that are of the essence.

1. Is it legally permissable under either US or applicable foreign law for a cruise company to charge a different price for the identical product to people living in different countries and then to prohibit cross border sales?

2. Is it legally permissable for a cruise company (or TA) to require non-US customers to tender a local currency in an amount sufficient to pay a USD quoted price, but to provide an exchange rate below actual market value. (As exchange rates are always uncertain and negotiable this assumes that the customer has no option to tender USD directly to the cruise company or TA - a questionable assumption.)

 

Am I missing something?

 

No Owl, I don't think you are missing anything. I wonder if the heart of the matter is to do with Free Trade Agreements in Goods and Services (to whit, the cross border sales stuff). How/who/where someone tackes this issue I have no clue. Again reflecting AussieGirl - thanks for the succinct summary.

[lahore]

This is a very well-known board of customer opinion that is provided free for stakeholders of the cruise industry (e.g. customers and providers). I find it difficult to believe that a thread that has attacted this much attention amongst customers has not attracted any attention amongst providers (in this case, specifically, Oceania and their wholesalers).

 

No comment FDR, Aust and NZ GSA-holders?

[Chivalrygirl]

I too feel that we are being discriminated against because we don't live in the U.S. Why should citizens of one country pay nearly double of what the citizens of another pay for the same product. Surely that is against the Trade Practices Act and in this era of Global economy we should all be equal.

 

If shove came to push, I would try to use a false address in the U.S. but I wouldn't be happy going down that path. Like Lahore, I would be afraid of being turned away at the gangplank and it would be very hard to claim insurance for something like that.

 

I feel that the cruiselines should not be coercing with their wholesalers both in the U.S. and down here.

 

Jennie

 

Jennie alerted me to this thread and I have not made my way right through it thus far, lots of reading but so interesting.

What about this scenario! My only child, a son, since marriage, now resides legally in the USA. What would happen if he shouted his parents in NZ a cruise? Which he would book and pay for in the US.

 

Val

[sanne]

I have read all these posts with interest. It's a battle I have been fighting too with the Oceania agents in Australia. I have now given up the battle. I will no longer sail Oceania until we get the same pricing as US citizens and the right to book with an agent of our choice regardless of which country they are in. There are so many other great cruise ships to sail without being 'ripped' off. So 'come on " Oceania, please recognise that there are a lot of angry cruisers out there in Australia and NZ and there will be a lot more when the word spreads.

[2kiwis]

Well, when we started this thread we never anticipated that it would get as many hits as it has.

 

If nothing comes of it, at least it is heartening to know that we are not alone in our frustration, and it gives us more drive to continue the "battle".

[Aussie Gal]

I have read all these posts with interest. It's a battle I have been fighting too with the Oceania agents in Australia. I have now given up the battle. I will no longer sail Oceania until we get the same pricing as US citizens and the right to book with an agent of our choice regardless of which country they are in. There are so many other great cruise ships to sail without being 'ripped' off. So 'come on " Oceania, please recognise that there are a lot of angry cruisers out there in Australia and NZ and there will be a lot more when the word spreads.

 

 

Well said. There are a lot of us out there that are sick of being treated differently by the cruise lines. They think that we will pay whatever just to cruise on their ships but as you say there is a lot of competition out there and most importantly they are willing to sell their cruises to us on the open market.

 

Jennie

[dharmapath]

I have tried to read all postings, but frankly got lost along the way. As far as I can tell, there are two issues that are of the essence.

1. Is it legally permissible under either US or applicable foreign law for a cruise company to charge a different price for the identical product to people living in different countries and then to prohibit cross border sales?

 

Yes it is legal. Have you ever tried to buy an Ipod from Apple. Different prices for different markets. Guess what it cost's more in Australia by about 70 USD. Many companies do it. Function of world markets.

 

 

2. Is it legally permissible for a cruise company (or TA) to require non-US customers to tender a local currency in an amount sufficient to pay a USD quoted price, but to provide an exchange rate below actual market value. (As exchange rates are always uncertain and negotiable this assumes that the customer has no option to tender USD directly to the cruise company or TA - a questionable assumption.)

 

Seems like a local issue in Australia with the wholesale providers. They are setting the exchange rates not the cruise line. Plus they have to buy cruises at a certain rate in bulk and deal with rate fluctuations on their inventory. Seems like a good business practice to pad the rate is you have to.

 

Fair? Would the Australian government want to loose travel industry jobs because of the competition in the us to book cruises directly? I don't think so.

 

 

Am I missing something?

 

Or am I missing something?

[lahore]

Dharmapath (BTW your signature takes up so much space)

 

"Different prices for different markets. Guess what it cost's more in Australia by about 70 USD. Many companies do it. Function of world markets"

 

Possibly correct about the Ipod. I, for one, wouldn't buy the Ipod in Australia. I'd go online and order it on ebay from the US, or Hong Kong, or I'd buy one in Singapore. Then we could both stand side by side and use our ipods, nobody would stop me.

 

In the other case I want to buy my cruise online, but someone is stopping me. If we stand side by side on an Oceania cruise ship, you will have paid about 40% less than me.

 

Maybe the Australian government doesn't want to lose jobs to overseas markets for many things, but nobody has outlawed online purchasing yet for anything other than cruises - and that is not by the Aussie government, who no doubt are clueless about this situation.

 

Sanne, Chivalrygal - welcome, our numbers are growing. The more the better in terms of critical mass would be nice to believe.

 

2kiwis - Owl and I and others discussed this before but it didn't grow legs and take off like it has this time. Your heading was great and caught the eye. Thank you for having a go when you did, it's good to know that we are not alone.

[sandydownunder]

This issue did take off on the Princess Boards a year or so ago. It was fueled by Brits who were told they could only purchase Princess cruises in Britain. Interestingly several contributers were lucky enough to own an apartment in the US, so they had a US address. I wouldn't know where to find that post now, but if we could bring them over to the Oceania board it would swell numbers.

 

Sandra

[2kiwis]

"Dharmapath: Seems like a local issue in Australia with the wholesale providers. They are setting the exchange rates not the cruise line. Plus they have to buy cruises at a certain rate in bulk and deal with rate fluctuations on their inventory. Seems like a good business practice to pad the rate is you have to."

 

 

When it came to paying our deposit to Oceania the wholesaler requested that we pay by a certain date as they then had to forward the money to the cruiseline - this being the case there is no reason for the exchange rate to be anything other than the current rate at time of money transfer.

[LHT28]

This issue did take off on the Princess Boards a year or so ago. It was fueled by Brits who were told they could only purchase Princess cruises in Britain. Interestingly several contributers were lucky enough to own an apartment in the US, so they had a US address. I wouldn't know where to find that post now, but if we could bring them over to the Oceania board it would swell numbers.

 

Sandra

I wonder if it would be beneficial to start a thread in the general discussion forums as it pertains to several cruise lines not just Oceania.

Maybe send a question to the "ask the editor" on CC http://www.cruisecritic.com/features/

 

Sorry if this has been discussed before but just thinking again (dangerous stuff for me):D

I wonder if in order for a cruise company to do business in a Country like U.K., AZ & NZ if they have to agree to use a GSA in order to do business with consumers?

Has anyone checked with the local Tourism dept to see what the requirements are?

[LHT28]

double post

[sandydownunder]

http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=276750&highlight=Unhappy+Brits

 

Don't know if this link will work. I've been trying to find that link I referred to but can't. Came up with this one. Similar issue. If you read all the posts one poster has provided another link. Havn't checked that one out yet.

 

Sandra

[Ron n Jon]

We must admit that we did not use "air included" with the last Oceania cruise. The requirement for a US gateway was and is with Princess but then again we are dealing with a TA here in Canada but choosing to deal with the posted US prices. We have rechecked this point for our upcoming "air included" bookings and it is a required US gateway when purchasing the US posted price. We could however use a Canadian gateway at "additional costs".

 

As the original posting dealt with additional costs which dealt with gratuities, we felt we could add this point to the discussion. The nickel and dime game being played by the cruise lines is not very conducive to repeat business. We are now being charged for a fuel surcharge for an upcoming cruise by RCCL. What next, a surcharge for fresh water with meals? * One for additional towels? It's as ridiculous as is the "mandatory but only if you wish" gratuities. Please, just state the full and inclusive price of the cruise and we will decide if and when we wish to use your line. Tipping is and always must be a personal and individual decision. What is charged to our accounts as "gratuities" is nothing more than a service charge no less so than the fuel surcharge. Fares should include "service" in the price and we then may tip if and when appropriate.

 

* We were asked to choose from three types of bottle water presented to us by the summelier at our dinning table, pre dinner. The expression on my face was enough to have him quickly remove himself and his commercial water. Iced water was then poured by the waiter.

[LHT28]

We must admit that we did not use "air included" with the last Oceania cruise. The requirement for a US gateway was and is with Princess but then again we are dealing with a TA here in Canada but choosing to deal with the posted US prices. We have rechecked this point for our upcoming "air included" bookings and it is a required US gateway when purchasing the US posted price. We could however use a Canadian gateway at "additional costs".

 

Princess is a whole other ballgame.

We just book our air when we did Princess cruise.

Of course there would be additional cost from a Canadian gateway ..just look at the extra air taxes we are charged

[sandydownunder]

I think Lahore's argument is the best so far.

If she goes on line to buy an ipod and the best deal is from a Singapore company no one stops her from making that purchase.

Why can't she go on line and purchase a cruise from a US company that is offering the best deal?

 

Hope I don't send this off on a tangent like the tipping referred to a few posts back ( but I do agree with Ron n Jon totally).

 

BUT

 

It is also unfair that after Australians have booked and paid their deposit here in Australia, should they wish to cancel the deposit is not refundable. US passengers can get a refund right up to final payment time. Another good reason not to do business in Australia.

 

ALSO

 

If the cruise company reducs the fare on their website those booked can apply to have their fare reduced. I've had this happen twice with two different US Travel agents, and I've received the reduction.

 

Can you imagine that happening in Australia? Laughable !

[Aussie Gal]

Sandy,

 

I think I have found the posting you were referring to on the Princess Board.

 

Here is the link:

 

http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=170709

 

Happy reading!

 

Jennie

[sandydownunder]

Hi Jennie,

It could be, although in the back of my mind someone did quote a letter they got back from Princess UK .The reasoning was so lame I couldn't believe at the time they'd actually committed themselves to paper. I quickly scanned through the link you provided but didn't see it there.

 

This is the Oceania Board but if you delve you can see that this topic is across all the boards. Am I correct in thinking you cannot buy a HAL cruise from a US TA now? I know one who won't accept bookings for HAL from Australians. Name is like Hamburger To Go. Would you like a Vacation with that ,sir?

 

Sandra

[Aussie Gal]

Sandy,

 

I haven't heard that HAL is not accepting our bookings if they are booked with a U.S. agent. If so, it is as though there is some sort of agreement amongst the cruiselines regarding how Australians and New Zealanders are to do business.

 

Perhaps we should all forget about cruising and go back to land trips again.

 

Jennie

[LHT28]

Sandy,

 

I haven't heard that HAL is not accepting our bookings if they are booked with a U.S. agent. If so, it is as though there is some sort of agreement amongst the cruiselines regarding how Australians and New Zealanders are to do business.

Jennie

from the website mentioned

Note: Holland America, MSC, NCL, Oceania, Princess, Royal Caribbean and Star Clippers now prohibit U.S. travel agencies (including XXXX) from selling cruises to customers who do not have a residence in the U.S. or Canada.

[sandydownunder]

What about the parent company Carnival?

[lahore]

BUT

 

It is also unfair that after Australians have booked and paid their deposit here in Australia, should they wish to cancel the deposit is not refundable. US passengers can get a refund right up to final payment time. Another good reason not to do business in Australia.

 

ALSO

 

If the cruise company reducs the fare on their website those booked can apply to have their fare reduced. I've had this happen twice with two different US Travel agents, and I've received the reduction.

 

Can you imagine that happening in Australia? Laughable !

 

Wow, I didn't know that!!! Even more reason to be upset.

 

p.s. I also agree with Ron n Jon, just don't want to get sidetracked.

p.p.s. "Hamburger to go, would you like a vacation with that' - very smart! I laughed, despite getting more and more depressed as I read that more cruise lines are doing this crappy stuff too.

[mgsail]

]we have done 2 .O . cruises with 2 booked ..all booked with U.S. agent....

...very happy with the service and buisness practice applied.....not so with

the attemps to book in AU. the savings and terms & conditions advantages

are found by shopping around...if they { AU .T/A }...want us as customers.. tempt us...do.not use an unacceptable restrictive trade ...

[Aussie Gal]

mgsail,

 

Welcome to C.C. I see that this is your first post.

 

I have one question if you don't mind. Are your two latest bookings recent or were they booked nearly 12 months ago as some agents in the U.S. are now restricting new bookings.

 

Jennie

[Sunny Sailing]

I may have already missed the following in one of the posts but has anyone ever had a reasonable explanation from Oceania as to why they have a policy that discriminates against passengers from other countries?.

 

Roll on global on-line booking!!!!