How long before Hal changes and allows shorts in the dining room ?

[hammybee]

I understand Oceania does also. The problem is with my budget I could only cruise about once every 3 years.

 

Oceania does not do formal nights.

[momofmeg]

Oceania does not do formal nights.

 

Oh I know and you know after 13 cruises I am "over" the excitement of formal night. I would be happy with just nice casual and all the men wearing a jacket at dinner like on Oceania.

 

Hey I used to have to buy a new formal gown for each cruise. No more! Now I am not bothered with recyling a gown.

 

I do love seeing my hubby in his tux though! So I guess I would miss formal night for that reason, huh! LOL!

[momofmeg]

And therein lies the problem for many of us. I guess the assumption is that if you prefer a more "traditional" cruising experience, you are more than comfortable financially which is obviously not always the case.

 

Perhaps Caviargal has it right and the better way to go is to cruise less frequently but receive the experience you're hoping for. However, in the meantime, if you continue to vacation every year, you're still spending the money you would have spent on a cruise.

 

So .... for some of us at least ... cruising may not be something we continue to do unless we decide to grin and bear it;) . After all, the ocean is still there, the ship is still there.

 

We cruise mostly because we just love to be out on the open sea. So we'll just do it less often, rent a cottage on the shore and look out over it instead:) .

 

That is what hubby and I said. We love the ocean, so maybe we should just do the beach more.

[topspot]

I just don't understand what the big deal is. If you enjoy dressing to the nines, go right ahead. What does it matter that I don't and will likley dress down? It dosen't bother me any to see someone in a tux/gown. Why does it bother so many to see me in my casual clothes?

 

For all those that want a "traditional" cruise, why not get together and charter a ship for a formal only cruise.:D.

 

Change happens. There is no stopping it. It's not change for the better or change for the worse, just different. Traditions change all the time. Baseball used to have Sunday doubleheaders. They are gone now. Do I miss them? Sure I do. Does it bother me? Not in the least.

 

As many have already stated: the cruise line will do what their target market wants.

[pipedreams62]

I've read all these threads and it appears the phone was ringing off the hook at Seattle headquarters with complaints about dressing up for dinner? How did Holland America get away with this torture for so long?

 

I sometimes ponder. For the person who has to fill shampoo bottles with liquor, stop at a grocery store and buy soda,water and beer, (oh and a cooler also) wear shorts or a bathing suit in the dinig room.

 

What's the point of actualy going on a cruise? It seems like it would just be easier to stay home in your shorts drink and relax,why bother.

 

I thought going on a cruise was somewhat of a "Different" experience.

 

and dressing up was part of it.

[iancal]

Oceana is definately casual. It is at the top of our 'want to try' list. Just waiting for the right cruise at the right price. Friends tell me that it is first rate.

[NoNoNanette]

I thought going on a cruise was somewhat of a "Different" experience.

 

and dressing up was part of it.

 

To each his own. Casual dress doesn't faze everyone. Everybody has their own idea of what an "experience" should be.

[scopewest]

I also wonder if the people who are complaining about the relaxation of the dress code are the same people who brag about smuggling alcohol, soda, and water on board while stiffing the staff because "they didn't work hard enough for their tips."

 

But I guess that's a new thread.

[bUU]

I think Bicker has hit the nail on the head also. I just WISH there was still a market for us who want a traditionial experience. It looks as though the only way we will get this (and I mean my family) is to cruise much less often, and save our money for Cunard.

I believe that market does still exist. Unfortunately, I also believe it isn't large enough to fill fourteen ships throughout the year. At least not easily; or at least not as easily as filling fourteen ships with anyone who will pay up. And there-in lies the problem---both for those of us looking for a traditional experience, and HAL.

It does indeed explain the problem for those looking for a traditional experience. It isn't necessarily a problem for Holland America; their objective is money, and more money is better than less money. A business should never discriminate: $2 of shareholder value is always better than $1 of shareholder value; i.e., the business should never care which things drive the $2 versus which things drive the $1.

[lovesublime]

You really need a silk tie to complete the outfit, Bob!

 

...and a pocket square

[HeatherInFlorida]

For us it's not so much about Formal Night ... we could easily do without those. I enjoyed them for a long while, but could easily adjust to that change.

 

On Wind Star I believe they called the dress code casual elegance, something like that. Resort Casual, etc., are fine too. But it's a long way from that to "shorts in the dining room" for dinner.:) Lunch, Breakfast I see nothing wrong with shorts.

 

It's just nice to dress up a little for dinner ... we just like it.

[ducklovemama]

Yeah, but MacDonalds does a mighty booming business, wouldn't you agree? So obviously there are people who like MacDonald's and patronize them, right?

 

Look, I don't know what all this excitement is about. If Carnival wants to allow shorts in the dining room, and they sail their ships week in and week out full, then obviously they are merely responding to public demand, and that's just the mark of a smart businessperson.

 

True, in our daily lives we have to conform to various dress codes. We have to dress a certain way for work in many cases, we have to dress in an acceptable manner for various functions we must attend. But when we are on a cruise, generally we are on that boat for pleasure ... nothing more and nothing less. So if the public is demanding more flexible dress codes, naturally the cruise line is going to provide them. Obviously for Carnival to make this change, they must have had plenty of input from their passengers in regard to it. They wouldn't just implement it out of the clear blue.

 

So, if people want to wear shorts in the dining room, let them. Who cares? It doesn't impact my cruise experience one iota, just as it does not impact my enjoyment of a dinner I go out for at home. If the person in the next booth at the Outback is wearing low rider jeans and a halter top, I don't even notice. I'm too busy enjoying my own dinner and companionship. So it won't bother me on a cruise either.

 

I say dress in whatever manner makes you comfortable. If you love the formal evenings and getting dressed up, then make arrangements with the group you are traveling with to declare your own formal nights where everyone dresses up and hangs out together for the evening. You will draw a lot of looks from the other passengers, and maybe some of them may learn from you.

 

I say the cruise lines are just trying to offer more options, and for a good segment of the population, that includes more casual dress. But it doesn't mean everyone has to dress that casually. You dress however you feel most comfortable.

 

Blue skies ...

 

--rita

 

 

This is really how I feel as well. Look people get real !!!

Life is just too short to make a fuss over this. Change happens !!! Go on turn the other cheek and enjoy your cruises.I know that I will.:D

[RevNeal]

I just don't understand what the big deal is. If you enjoy dressing to the nines, go right ahead. What does it matter that I don't and will likley dress down? It dosen't bother me any to see someone in a tux/gown. Why does it bother so many to see me in my casual clothes?[/Quote]

 

Some people don't want to find themselves the only of anything in a crowd. They don't like to "stand out" conspicuously for any reason, and fear being mentally judged by those around them -- "who does she think she is, dressed up like that ... the Queen of the Netherlands???" -- and would rather just "fit in." If "fitting in" means that they cannot dress up like they'd prefer to do, then they lose the experience altogether. It's entirely an emotional response to being "singled out" for something. Those born or raised during the Great Depression are particularly prone to this concern, while children of the 60s tend to seek out the experience.

 

My mother, for example, doesn't like being made to feel conspicuous about dressing up "too much;" she worries that people in shorts and t-shirts are going to look at her and pass judgement on her as a "stuffed shirt" or "arrogant snob" just because she likes to wear a dress on formal night. Such language is, sometimes, used on this board for those of us who enjoy dressing up, so her concern is VALID (at least, it is in her mind). Indeed, she's worried about this very issue in anticipation of our Alaska Cruise next year. Very worried. It's been about 4 years since she was last on a cruise ... and the problem is obsessing her. I know her ... she's going to turn several shades of an embarrassed-red if she turns out to be the only woman dressed up on formal night ... embarrassed to tears. I've tried to advise her, and it's not helping much ... she hates jeans and doesn't like slacks much, and is afraid she's going to be conspicuous.

 

I've tried to tell her not to worry about it, but she just looks at me like I'm crazy ... she was brought up to care about what other people thought of her; I was too, but I've long-since changed my mind (thanks to RuthC). I'll dress up on Formal Nights if I please, and if the "down-dressers" don't like it, or if they think the worse of me for doing so, then too bad. Besides, some of them are probably going to think the worse of me, anyway, so "in for a penny, in for a pound," as the old saying goes.

[pipedreams62]

I also wonder if the people who are complaining about the relaxation of the dress code are the same people who brag about smuggling alcohol, soda, and water on board while stiffing the staff because "they didn't work hard enough for their tips."

 

But I guess that's a new thread.

 

You're piecing this together perfectly.

 

It seems they leave a "Trail"

[mamaofami]

Some people don't want to find themselves the only of anything in a crowd. They don't like to "stand out" conspicuously for any reason, and fear being mentally judged by those around them -- "who does she think she is, dressed up like that ... the Queen of the Netherlands???" -- and would rather just "fit in."

 

I, for one, don't worry about fitting in, but I would feel pretty silly all dressed up on fomral night if 75% of the rest of the passengers were in jeans or shorts. The experience I look forward to is the feel of elegant dining in a beautiful dining room, and I can't get that in a setting that's filled with shorts and jeans.

[RevNeal]

I also wonder if the people who are complaining about the relaxation of the dress code are the same people who brag about smuggling alcohol, soda, and water on board while stiffing the staff because "they didn't work hard enough for their tips."

 

It's the reverse.

[RevNeal]

I, for one, don't worry about fitting in, but I would feel pretty silly all dressed up on fomral night if 75% of the rest of the passengers were in jeans or shorts. The experience I look forward to is the feel of elegant dining in a beautiful dining room, and I can't get that in a setting that's filled with shorts and jeans.

 

It's sounds to me like you're using different terminology: "feeling silly" ... but it's the same motivation. You don't want to be one of the only persons dressed up on Formal night. Neither does my mother. You might feel "silly," but she will feel mortified.

[iancal]

I would NEVER consider anyone who dressed in formal attire as a stuff shirt or an arogant snob. I might, if they decided to make derogatory comments about those who did not, ridicule them, or make them feel uncomfortable. But the opposite would be equally so. Far too much of this judging and busybody business these days. People should just get on with it-life's too short as it is.

[AerynSun_JohnCrighton]

It's the reverse.

 

Exactly... we've never smuggled anything in, and always tip good.

[jn99]

This is an interesting thread to say the least. As someone new to cruising (haven't taken the first one yet!) I was surprised to see all the fuss here over the AYW dining, freestyle cruising, etc. For me it makes perfect sense to be able to dine when I choose or want to and that may very well be different times on different nights. Thank goodness I have that option now on HAL (factored in the decision over Celebrity)

 

Anyway... Just as much as I do prefer to dine when I want to, I also really prefer not to dress up to dine (or for anything for that matter), meaning jacket and tie, tux etc. I can't recall the last time I wore a jacket and tie, two job interviews ago I believe :cool:.

 

However, when it is formal night on the ship, it's formal night and I WILL dress accordingly not simply as I prefer. That is the real issue, people do whatever they want to do when there are laws, rules, regulations, policies, etc. to the contrary. It's a breach of etiquette and decency, the ultimate display of selfishness, and a bigger problem than just folks wearing shorts or jeans on formal nights for their cruise.

 

How sad that someone actually adhering to policy would be the one left feeling out of place and uncomfortable!

[AerynSun_JohnCrighton]

This is an interesting thread to say the least. As someone new to cruising (haven't taken the first one yet!) I was surprised to see all the fuss here over the AYW dining, freestyle cruising, etc. For me it makes perfect sense to be able to dine when I choose or want to and that may very well be different times on different nights. Thank goodness I have that option now on HAL (factored in the decision over Celebrity)

 

Anyway... Just as much as I do prefer to dine when I want to, I also really prefer not to dress up to dine (or for anything for that matter), meaning jacket and tie, tux etc. I can't recall the last time I wore a jacket and tie, two job interviews ago I believe :cool:.

 

However, when it is formal night on the ship, it's formal night and I WILL dress accordingly not simply as I prefer. That is the real issue, people do whatever they want to do when there are laws, rules, regulations, policies, etc. to the contrary. It's a breach of etiquette and decency, the ultimate display of selfishness, and a bigger problem than just folks wearing shorts or jeans on formal nights for their cruise.

 

How sad that someone actually adhering to policy would be the one left feeling out of place and uncomfortable!

 

 

Exactly..

 

and it's not JUST shorts..

 

one cruise...can't remember which one..a table nearby on formal night.. they weren't just 'dressed down' they were dressed in clothes that you would wear to work in your yard or paint the house.

[pipedreams62]

This is an interesting thread to say the least. As someone new to cruising (haven't taken the first one yet!) I was surprised to see all the fuss here over the AYW dining, freestyle cruising, etc. For me it makes perfect sense to be able to dine when I choose or want to and that may very well be different times on different nights. Thank goodness I have that option now on HAL (factored in the decision over Celebrity)

 

Anyway... Just as much as I do prefer to dine when I want to, I also really prefer not to dress up to dine (or for anything for that matter), meaning jacket and tie, tux etc. I can't recall the last time I wore a jacket and tie, two job interviews ago I believe :cool:.

 

However, when it is formal night on the ship, it's formal night and I WILL dress accordingly not simply as I prefer. That is the real issue, people do whatever they want to do when there are laws, rules, regulations, policies, etc. to the contrary. It's a breach of etiquette and decency, the ultimate display of selfishness, and a bigger problem than just folks wearing shorts or jeans on formal nights for their cruise.

 

How sad that someone actually adhering to policy would be the one left feeling out of place and uncomfortable!

 

 

Good news. You are going to love your first cruise,and especially the Westerdam. Have fun.

[pipedreams62]

Exactly..

 

and it's not JUST shorts..

 

one cruise...can't remember which one..a table nearby on formal night.. they weren't just 'dressed down' they were dressed in clothes that you would wear to work in your yard or paint the house.

 

 

it's called the "Unmade Bed Look"

[iancal]

I think the issue rests with HAL. They need to get off the dime and make a decision and follow through with some enforcement (if required). Until they do, this will go on, and on, and on.

 

So over to you HAL-you created this monster. Don't be a milktoast-make a decision and stick with it.

[Kamloops50]

NEVER!!!!!!

I cruise because myself and DW like to dress up for dinner.

 

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