WindJammer for all meals

[Grandiva]

[quote name='Mikew0805']I agree.

I actually do not get some peoples stance on this. I certainly understand that ALL the servers should expect and get tipped based on services rendered!! NOT.. "just because!" If in the WJ, someone makes their own plate, cleans up after themselves, and receives no type of service.. what exactly should they be tipping for??? Seems like a waste to eat in the WJ for dinner, but if someone wants to, they should.

Let me put it this way... I actually deliver pizza as a part time extra job. I am paid less than minimum wage, and expect to earn tips for my service of delivering a product to the customers door. (even though there are some cheap people out there) [B]So what everyone is saying here is that those customers that choose to come "carryout" their order should still tip me, because I was there and would have provided the service if they chose to use it????? NOT! [/B]

[B]Makes no sense...[/B] if service is not rendered, then I do not consider a person who does not tip for not receiving a service as cheap/low class, or whatever it would be called. I will reserve that for those who do receive adequate or above service and still do not tip.[/quote]

Could not have been said any better, and could not be any more true. I tip who serves me the proper amount and at times, when warrented, extra. This applies on land and at sea.

The MDR staff may very well be waiting for me. There are also
several buffet stations full of food each night waiting on someone to eat it.

What really gets me with all of this is that you will get SLAMED for choosing a dinning "option" offered over another, but highly encouraged to disregard the "suggested" recommendations of the cruise line on how one "should" dress. [I]"Dress anyway you want to, its your vacation blah, blah, blah. But how damn dare you not choose to eat in the MDR, where you are expected, and then not tip the staff who did not service you![/I] Give me a break! If I am expected in the MDR each evening then close the WJ and those additional cost "speciality resturants" and not offer those *options*. JMHO

[captainannoyed!]

[quote name='PattyW']I have to agree with those that say that many may not understand the big picture regarding tipping the waitstaff. The RCCL FAQ's state:

Dining Room Waiter: $3.50 USD a day per guest
Assistant Waiter: $2.00 USD a day per guest
Headwaiter: $.75 USD a day per guest

It doesn't say anything about tipping the WJ staff, the cafe promenade staff, the Johnny Rockets staff or anyone else. If I didn't know any better, I would think that you did not have to tip the dining room staff if you did not use their services. In fact, I think it is absolutely counterintuitive that you DO tip the waitstaff when you don't utilize their services.[/QUOTE]

+1. I know that we are apparently in the minority on this thread. But the whole purpose of tipping is to reward good service. If I don't utilize the MDR, and I usually don't for the entire cruise, what exactly is the tip of the waiter, assistant and headwaiter for? Is it just because they are 'there?' If this is the logic, why aren't all the diners in the MDR trekking up to the Windjammer on the last night of the cruise to tip them? They were 'there.' Where does the expectation of a tip without service end here? The Spa is 'there' too and I don't automatically drop by with an envelope at the end of the cruise if I don't use it? In real terms, what is the difference? I am sure that tips make up a big part of the Spa staff's income also. If I am choosing not to use the service why should I be paying? What about Chops and Portofino? If I eat there I pay a charge [B][I]that includes tip.[/I][/B] So in theory most people here believe that if I ate at Chops for the whole cruise, [B][I]thereby automatically tipping my wait staff the whole time,[/I][/B] I am obligated to walk into the MDR on the last night of my cruise (for the one and only time) and hand out tips to people that never waited on me.

Sorry, but I think there has to be a line drawn on this somewhere. Traditionally the line is that tips are given [B][I]for good service.[/I][/B]

If the main gist of the argument that people who don't use the MDR should be tipping is that the waitstaff is poorly paid, and that seems to be the main point of previous posts, am I expected to tip out of guilt because of the wages RCCL pays? Are RCCL salaries my fault?

In practice I tend to be a very good tipper. But I don't see where I 'owe' tips for services I don't use. I know that I am in the minority on this topic, and accept that fact.

[Debde]

I'm not sure if this has already been said or if the OP is still even reading. I didn't read all posts-just will comment on the OP's question.

I've been involved in these threads and have come to the conclusion-everyone has a different opinion on tipping. no one really knows how the staff is paid or how much for that matter. You can get 50 different answers on this.
with the above being said:
If you never eat in the MDR I would tip them [the WJ servers] that evening. That's how I do it. I never do formal nights so I go to the WJ and tip them just like I am eating out at home. I tell the MDR waiter I will not be in those evenings. It is more important to do that if you are never going there. They can they give the table to someone else or know you are not coming. Makes life easy for them and possibly more productive with a tipping customer in those seats.
From my observation-although we only dined there on formal nights only-it seems to be the same server assisting you. I still tipped nightly in case I had a different server.

This is just my system-many will disagree or many will have other ways. You need to do as you feel comfortable. One thing for sure-service in the WJ is much different in the evening then the bfst. and lunch rush. You are taken care of just as well as the MDR. Yes-it is self serve, but, on an entire different scale then lunch a brfst. You will notice that immediatly and I'm sure you will see why I feel the tip should go to them directly.

And-for the above reason-why I am not a fan of pre-paid tips. I like to give immediate cash and to the person that served me.

Although I skimmed through this- whoever was the pizza delivery person-your comparison was spot on!!! ;)

[lovetocruise75]

[quote name='cruisecrasy']I believe waiters earn more than $100 per month. I have talked to several folks 'in the know' so to speak..and they agree with the article mentioned below..

Under 'Features' here on CC there are excellent, IMO, articles - Under The Captains Table -written by a Celebrity Captains wife - Joyce Gleeson-Adamidis who is a former cruise ship staff member in her own right and the one I refer to is entitled 'Gratuities - Whats The Point'..
I personally find her articles most informative..

In this article she outlines the ins & outs of tipping & wages onboard cruise ships.

A waiter can be in the $2,000 to $3,200 range & a busboy (assist. waiter) is $1,200 to $1,800 per mo! It isn't clear whether this does or doesn't include the tips..

Whatever their initial salary is - I totally agree that the staff shld all receive a tip (unless u had very bad &/or rude service and that is highly unlikely.

In the WJ the staff puts out the food, plates, napkins etc, cleans tables, gets drinks when asked, clean up spills, serve pax at the 'stations' etc (and are the same folks who also serve in the MDR) & if this doesn't qualify as 'service' I don't know what does...!!

Sure wld if u were in a restaurant ashore...and the cruise fares are so low these days anyway, no one cld even imagine they include tips..!

Easiest way to solve the problem of tipping is having it automatically added to your SeaPass acct.
Putting it on the SeaPass means not having to remember to tip if u are the forgetful type.. :)

Have happy cruisin'![/quote]


Your amounts above INCLUDE tips and they are expected amounts based on an average industry-wide. I have maintained a good friendship with a waiter and bartender from two different RCCL ships, and trust me, they earn no more than $100 per month each from the cruiseline. Now, room and board is included, however, the majority of their pay comes from tips ;)

[g_rock]

You know what? The whole tipping thing aside, I just can't imagine anyone wanting to cruise and spending the whole time in the buffet. Yes, I like the food in the WJ. But this is vacation. I like going out to eat on land but rarely do so. So my vacations are about dining, food and things I don't get to experience every day. It would be like going on a cruise to the Greek isles but never getting off the ship to actually experience them. Or going into New York City and eating at McDonalds only. Dining is a big part of a cruise as well as any part of travel for me. THAT is why it is a vacation, not just transportation from one place to another.

[tnt091605]

Again someone that just does not get it. If you cannot afford a few dollar tips then don't go on the cruise. He spent time trying to get around trying to tip. What kind of vacation is that? Of course what would you expect from a White Sox Fan. Ok just kidding.

[Debde]

g rock
I can see what you are saying but being the WJ evening food is the same that is in the MDR-some folks just like to eat at their own time and don't really like to 'Dine'. Some want to eat a run---back to the casino----lol

[alphakitty]

[quote name='travelpig']Hi, DH and i do all our meals in Windjammer or at the alternate restaurants. We consider it "our time dining". We got tired of doing the dining room with all its hoopla. As for tips we sailed on the Radiance and there was a tip box for the Windjammer which we gladly tipped. The next ship we were on had no box or anything, we were not sure what we were supposed to do. I'm not sure if people skip the dining room to avoid paying tips or don't like to have to dress up. This is their trip however they want to have it. [COLOR="Red"]That being said back to the meaning of TIPS, to insure prompt service. [/COLOR]Many people feel at a buffet setup they are not obligated to tip, whether on a ship or in a restaurant.[/QUOTE]

A common and widely misstated meaning of TIPS.

[url]http://www.snopes.com/language/acronyms/tip.asp[/url]

[Grandiva]

[quote name='g_rock']You know what? The whole tipping thing aside, I just can't imagine anyone wanting to cruise and spending the whole time in the buffet. Yes, I like the food in the WJ. But this is vacation. [COLOR=red]I like going out to eat on land but rarely do so. So my vacations are about dining, food and things I don't get to experience every day.[/COLOR] It would be like going on a cruise to the Greek isles but never getting off the ship to actually experience them. Or going into New York City and eating at McDonalds only. Dining is a big part of a cruise as well as any part of travel for me. THAT is why it is a vacation, not just transportation from one place to another.[/quote]

Understand that many people who cruise also do the dining out with white table cloths and candles on the table often. MDR and Chops not a big deal to them. DH and myself are examples. We go to nice resturants quite often.....probably too much. Everyone's vacation expectations are different. Now the couple we cruise with enjoy those dining experiences on our cruises because they rarely get to dine out. Their lifestyle does not include that as our does. They are dressed and in the MDR everynight. It's a real treat for them as it is with you.

I have an uncle and aunt who cruise and when they do my uncle does not get off the ship. They have been cruising for 30 years and he no longer cruises for the destination experiences. My aunt is probably the first one off the ship.....to shop :p. At this point in our vacation lives I am off at every port. Wouldn't miss not one. In 20 years I may stay on the ship too.

[g8rmomx2]

Petesweet,
Because I had the same question you did, about who to give the vouchers to if we prepaid our tips but didn't eat in the MDR, I emailed RCI with that very question. Their response was that the vouchers signify the tip you are giving, but are not a check or cash equivalent. Your wait staff is assigned to your cabin number. Whoever waits the tables assigned to your cabin will get your tips. That's why we don't worry about tablemates who might think we're stiffing the waiters by not coming to dinner on the last night. You never have to physically hand the voucher to anyone, that is just a tradition that many cruisers enjoy. Or, if you want to add extra, you'll have to give the envelope directly to them. By the way, the dining room staff knows who has prepaid, if not at the beginning of the cruise, definitely by the last night. Royal Caribbean does have a system in place for eating in any venue and still making sure that your tips go to the appropriate person. That happens if you prepay gratuities. Then, you don't have to give it another thought.

[Debde]

[quote name='g8rmomx2']Petesweet,
Because I had the same question you did, about who to give the vouchers to if we prepaid our tips but didn't eat in the MDR, I emailed RCI with that very question. Their response was that the vouchers signify the tip you are giving, but are not a check or cash equivalent. Your wait staff is assigned to your cabin number. Whoever waits the tables assigned to your cabin will get your tips.[/quote]

That makes sense and surely re-enforces that tips are not pooled.
But
If you never eat in the MDR and do eat in the WJ everynight-this also re-enforces tipping them directly and not the MDR. Yes-no?? This is where there is a flaw in pre-paying if you know you are not dining there every night I'm thinking.

[Ocean Boy]

[quote name='g_rock']You know what? The whole tipping thing aside, [COLOR="Red"]I just can't imagine anyone wanting to cruise and spending the whole time in the buffet. Yes, I like the food in the WJ. But this is vacation. [/COLOR] I like going out to eat on land but rarely do so. So my vacations are about dining, food and things I don't get to experience every day. It would be like going on a cruise to the Greek isles but never getting off the ship to actually experience them. Or going into New York City and eating at McDonalds only. Dining is a big part of a cruise as well as any part of travel for me. [COLOR="red"]THAT is why it is a vacation, not just transportation from one place to another[/COLOR].[/QUOTE]

An that is why you are entiled to the vacation that YOU want and I an entitled to the vacation that I want. You don't have to understand why I eat in the Windjammer and I don't really care if you don't.:)

I am pretty abled bodied. I don't really like people waiting on me. If I can do something myself I'd rather do it that way.

[Wisdom]

[quote name='petesweet']I can answer that one from experience.

On our recent B2B, we thoroughly enjoyed our table for 8 on the first leg. However, we decided on the second leg to eat in the Windjammer every night so we could eat quickly, go to the shows, and then retire early. In order to do that, we made a point to relinquish our seats at the table so that there would not be empty places and a loss of tip income to the waiter/assistant waiter.

I asked the maitre d' how to handle the tips. Even prepaying them would not solve the problem, because we would have to have someone to hand the envelopes to.

Our experience in the WJ was that there was not a lot of "service" - certainly nothing to compare to what you get in the MDR.

The maitre d' said if we would give him the tip money, he would see to it that it got into the right hands in the WJ.

I agree with those who wish we had a standard service fee assessed and we wouldn't have to concern ourselves with this--just give EXTRA when we feel like it (which we usually do).[/quote]
Thank you.

[Moondawgie]

[quote name='Debde']If you never eat in the MDR and do eat in the WJ everynight-this also re-enforces tipping them directly and not the MDR. Yes-no?? This is where there is a flaw in pre-paying if you know you are not dining there every night I'm thinking.[/QUOTE]


Not exactly. The waiter and asst waiter's tips are figured into the fact that everyone shows up in the dining room. If there are empty seats and they don't tip, well that's less that waiter gets paid - the seat is reserved for you. Besides the fact that all staff rotate all over the place and work buffets, room service, etc. I'm really glad most employers don't withhold pay from their people based on some perceived notion.

[nanfromatlanta]

[quote name='g_rock']You know what? The whole tipping thing aside,[COLOR="Black"][COLOR="Red"] I just can't imagine anyone wanting to cruise and spending the whole time in the buffet. [/COLOR][/COLOR] Yes, I like the food in the WJ. But this is vacation. I like going out to eat on land but rarely do so. So my vacations are about dining, food and things I don't get to experience every day. It would be like going on a cruise to the Greek isles but never getting off the ship to actually experience them. Or going into New York City and eating at McDonalds only. Dining is a big part of a cruise as well as any part of travel for me. THAT is why it is a vacation, not just transportation from one place to another.[/QUOTE]

[COLOR="black"]There are many of us, like myself, who dine out on a regular basis at home. Consequently, the main dining room is not a big deal. As matter of fact, we dine at some restaurants here at home which would put the MDR on the ship to shame. Do we take advantage of dinining room?....yes. Do we eat some dinners in the Windjammer?... yes. We cruise at least once a year and thoroughly enjoy the laid back, casual atmosphere of the Windjammer on some evenings. We can pick and choose whatever we like, and dine at our own pace.[/COLOR]

[COLOR="Black"]It is all about choices.[/COLOR] ;)

[g8rmomx2]

[quote name='Debde']That makes sense and surely re-enforces that tips are not pooled.
But
If you never eat in the MDR and do eat in the WJ everynight-this also re-enforces tipping them directly and not the MDR. Yes-no?? This is where there is a flaw in pre-paying if you know you are not dining there every night I'm thinking.[/quote]

Another question I asked!! They told me that wait staff rotate between the dining room and the windjammer. I didn't ask what the schedule was, or if that's where they train, etc., I just wanted to know in terms of tipping. They said that the tips that they earn in the dining room cover their time in the windjammer. Again, everyone is welcome to tip an additional amount anywhere, but if you prepay your gratuities, you have covered the dining/cabin services that you receive on your cruise. This is info from questions emailed to Royal Caribbean, not from conversations with staff on the ship.

[g8rmomx2]

[quote name='nanfromatlanta'][COLOR=black]There are many of us, like myself, who dine out on a regular basis at home. Consequently, the main dining room is not a big deal. As matter of fact, we dine at some restaurants here at home which would put the MDR on the ship to shame. Do we take advantage of dinining room?....yes. Do we eat some dinners in the Windjammer?... yes. We cruise at least once a year and thoroughly enjoy the laid back, casual atmosphere of the Windjammer on some evenings. We can pick and choose whatever we like, and dine at our own pace.[/COLOR]

[COLOR=black]It is all about choices.[/COLOR] ;)[/quote]


Exactly!!! And that's why we love love love to cruise!

[Debde]

Thanks again g8
I get the rotation thing. So-once week they make good tips another they may not so it all works out in the end for them.
That's why I won't tip the MDR for nights I don't eat there and leave it for the WJ or even JR if I choose to dine there. We did one night-for the kids!!lol I figure the week the staff may be in the WJ-they could use some extra cash.
Also-I'm sure befor they are ready to step into the MDR-some go through a training period. Why not tip them directly because every little bit helps!!

For the people that walk into the MDR and give the entire tip to them-or the folks that don't tip the MDR for the nights not therer but do tip any other dining venue-it is all the same amount of tip given at the end.

Stiffing and distributing tips amongs the people that served you are two different senarios!! I think these threads get heated and off topic because some are attacked because they 'distribute' tips and think some are getting stiffed. That's wrong IMHO. Now-someone who says they don't tip at all-that is a just cause for a CC attack!!!:p

[cruisePRN]

[quote name='captainannoyed!'][B][/B]

If the main gist of the argument that people who don't use the MDR should be tipping is that the waitstaff is poorly paid, and that seems to be the main point of previous posts, am I expected to tip out of guilt because of the wages RCCL pays? Are RCCL salaries my fault?

In practice I tend to be a very good tipper. But I don't see where I 'owe' tips for services I don't use. I know that I am in the minority on this topic, and accept that fact.[/quote]

I don't know/or think you're in the minority at all. I think there are some vocal folks who beat people up for not agreeing on this topic that they scare them away. I have read so many "outta here" posts for just this reason. When someone asks a a question people should answer it honestly and that should be the end of it. But NO people have to start finding fault with that opinion and then that becomes the topic.

[captainannoyed!]

cruisePRN,

The reason that I thought I was in the minority was that I had read the entire thread before posting, and it seemed that I was. After the post I quoted a few other posts showed up that saw the MDR tipping issue as I do.

It still seems to me that the prevailing thoughts on the thread are that MDR tips are to be paid regardless of wether or not one uses the MDR. I respectfully disagree with majority view. :) I don't like dining in the MDR, mostly because I am single, and sitting with a few hundred families and couples just isn't very fun for a single person. Additionally, I prefer VERY much to eat on my own schedule.

Some PPs mentioned the idea of raising the cost of the cruise itself and doing away with tipping altogether. I would be fine with this, and think it could simplify the problem. I realize that there is always the possibility of service slipping by going that way. In the end I really don't care which way it is handled, except that I don't feel as though I ought to be expected to tip for services I don't use.

[davekathy]

Different strokes for different folks… We prefer the early sitting in the Main Dining Room for all our evening meals. We enjoy the service and ambiance of the MDRs. Also the suggested dress code is for the whole evening, not just during the evening meal.

[Debde]

[quote name='captainannoyed!']cruisePRN,
It still seems to me that the prevailing thoughts on the thread are that MDR tips are to be paid regardless of wether or not one uses the MDR. I respectfully disagree with majority view. :)
In the end I really don't care which way it is handled, except that I don't feel as though I ought to be expected to tip for services I don't use.[/quote]

I agree with your thoughts
Although I have not been a member for as long as many to the site-I have read pages and pages and multiple threads of this same discussion and I'm not all that sure we are in the minority;) It could be an even race by now!!:D
Seriously-the best thing that happens is myths get cleared up. when I first joined-people could convince you that tips were pooled so you figured-why not throw it all in the big pot. Well-that was proved a no so then confusion began and still-salary and rotations are not all that clear.

[Ocean Boy]

[quote name='Moondawgie']Not exactly. The waiter and asst waiter's tips are figured into the fact that everyone shows up in the dining room. If there are empty seats and they don't tip, well that's less that waiter gets paid - the seat is reserved for you. Besides the fact that all staff rotate all over the place and work buffets, room service, etc. I'm really glad most employers don't withhold pay from their people based on some perceived notion.[/QUOTE]

First of all, we are not the employer, we are ther customer. RCI is the employer. RCI pays the salary. We provide a gratuity. I have no intention of getting into any further debate on the meaning of gratuity. Webster's dictionary should be a satisfactory reference.

Secondly, RCI very well knows that everyone does not show up in the dining room. If it were expected that everyone would show up then there would be no need for either an evening Windjammer or a Chops or Portofino's.

Thirdly, in the evening the staff does not rotate all over the place. On any particular week the same staff will be in the dining room at night and the same staff will be in the Windjammer. Yes, breakfast and luch is a "free for all".

Please tip the way that you feel comfortable. I will do the same. I have stated why I tip the way I do. You do not have to accept it. You have stated why you tip the way you do. I completely accept it. I do not knock people who feel differently about this that I do and you could try doing the same. I will leave the ship at the end of the week feeling very good that I took care of the folks that took care of me and my family. And in the long run that is what matters.

[Host Karen]

[quote name='davekathy']Also the suggested dress code is for the whole evening, not just during the evening meal.[/quote]

While that is true on Celebrity, Royal Caribbean does not make that suggestion. Just an FYI for your upcoming cruise.

[Host Karen]

[quote name='captainannoyed!']The reason that I thought I was in the minority was that I had read the entire thread before posting, and it seemed that I was. After the post I quoted a few other posts showed up that saw the MDR tipping issue as I do.[/quote]

I believe there are more members in the minority than one might think, but they avoid these threads because they are piled upon when they state their opinion on the tipping issue. I am often stumped to understand why people can't respect the opinions of others, even if they don't agree.

Karen