Are rules meant to be broken???

[Pegs222]

When rules are put in place by whoever is making the rules, if they be on a Cruise Line or in your own home, they should be followed. We are a guest on a ship as guests are in someones home.

 

On Carnival Cruise Lines there are certain rules that they have implemented and as a guest we should be respectful of them. Some rules are there for our safety some rules are there because it is they believe it is in the interest of most of their guests.

 

When a poster puts up a thread "could we get away with...", I find it very insulting. If you are going to post it, then we know you are going to do it.

 

Why have a set of rules if you think it is OK to bend them, tweak them and or just ignore them?

[Cathy p]

Thanks most everyone for feeling like I do, a rule is a rule and for someone to say their child is 9 when they are not is teaching that child it is ok to lie. Such as when they ask you how old you are just say I am 9. Such a small lie goes on and on thru the ages. No wonder our young people are so screwed up today.:(

[DGP1111]

I'm sorry but I don't buy into the whole "rules should bend with needs or wants" and luckily in our society the laws don't bend for needs or wants either.

JMO, Carole

 

Carole, just out of curiosity, what was your opinion of your own State's somewhat recent attempt to change the wording of a law that (to say the least) had issues?

 

Again, I absolutely have no beef with you concerning this thread, I just wonder if you also agree that sometimes there needs to be the aforementioned "wiggle room" or adjustments. Thanks. :)

 

http://www.cnn.com/2008/US/11/14/nebraska.safe.haven/index.html

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[salty dingo]

There is probably some leeway, as if the younger group had no one in it, they would probably want to combine the age groups. But if the 9 - 11 group was full and the next group down was not, they would probably try and be strict about it.

 

Certainly, it is not something that a parent should be concerned about on a vacation. The kid is going to be happy no matter which group they are in.

[Nunu]

No wonder our young people are so screwed up today.:(

 

They are?

[penetangjudy]

I think the point that should be mentioned here is this 'rule' is probably put in place as a defining line as to limit the number of children in each category.....If there was no limit and parents, like one mentioned previous, were 'allowed' to just pick ages for their children there might just be a group of children all in one age category, one big group. Would kind of defeat the purpose I think.

 

Some rules are in place for a reason, and even children with higher IQ's can still benefit from social interaction with their peers.

[yst347]

If I bring my daughter who recently turned nine along with her schoolmate friend who is still eight, I would expect them to be able to participate in shipboard activities together and experience tells me they will be, either in the younger or older group.

 

I agree with others that rules should be obeyed. Where I differ is that rule making should involve serious thought about impact. If carnival is going to make exceptions to policy they should be upfront about it. They do make exceptions but it is up to parents to inquire. Pushy parents which are a plenty force exceptions that are beyond normal.

 

Make reasonable rules, publish how they will be applied and enforce them.

[Nunu]

If I bring my daughter who recently turned nine along with her schoolmate friend who is still eight, I would expect them to be able to participate in shipboard activities together and experience tells me they will be, either in the younger or older group.

 

I agree with others that rules should be obeyed. Where I differ is that rule making should involve serious thought about impact. If carnival is going to make exceptions to policy they should be upfront about it. They do make exceptions but it is up to parents to inquire. Pushy parents which are a plenty force exceptions that are beyond normal.

 

Make reasonable rules, publish how they will be applied and enforce them.

 

It sounds like they're more vigilant on certain rules than others (dealing with chair hogs).

[Flynlo]

rules are guidance. not laws...which are meant to be bent! why are people so hell bent on "following the rules" that someone arbitrarily decided would be good for the masses???

 

 

Exactly, well said.

[LemurCat]

There is a difference between rules and guidelines. Rules are hard and fast. They usually tell you what you can't do as opposed to instructing you to what you must do. Guidelines are NOT rules. They are there to guide a person towards making a decision. They are flexible to the situation.

 

Now, if someone could definitely say if the age group arrangements are based on rules or guidelines, it would be most helpful in this debate.

 

Personally, I can see why they would just be guidelines, as at any point in time it's impossible to foresee the need for hard and fast rules for who should be were because of the fluid nature of the population on the ship.

[kyrisong1]

Carole, just out of curiosity, what was your opinion of your own State's somewhat recent attempt to change the wording of a law that (to say the least) had issues?

 

Again, I absolutely have no beef with you concerning this thread, I just wonder if you also agree that sometimes there needs to be the aforementioned "wiggle room" or adjustments. Thanks. :)

 

http://www.cnn.com/2008/US/11/14/nebraska.safe.haven/index.html

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Hi Don!!! I actually do have a "steak" in that law ROFL

I work in one of the few psychiatric facilities in the state and our health system housed many of the teens that were dropped off by parents.

I feel that the wording should stay the same and help should be there for all kids that need it, to take in and shelter them, help them and get them appropriate placement and help.

I'm of the "it takes a village" stance when it comes to helping kids.

It did cost our state a lot for the treatment and placement for these kids, and I know it was a joke to a lot of people (remember one comic that was screaming at her kids "I'll drop you off in Omaha if you don't behave"

But truthfully would you rather the kids stay in a home that cannot provide the guidence they need?

Maybe to help the costs we could find grant help or some kind of reimbursement from home states that should be helping their own kids?

I thought the safe haven law was a great one and I think if it's truly a safe haven people will use it and if it saves one kid then it's worth it.

Thanks for asking:D Carole

[salty dingo]

I think the cruise line is in the best position to group the kids by age. They are the experts, let them do it. Parents should be glad for the opportunity they have for the kids to get this experience.

 

A parent who argues with the staff and wants to overrule them... well perhaps that parent should be with their kid 24 X 7 and skip the Camp Carnival thing.

[Cobra1365]

I break rules occassionally, so I guess Im not a big believer in rules. They make so many exceptions to rules, what is one more in the case of a child who wasnt happy in the lower catgory. I think it depends on the maturity of the child in this case.

 

Not a biggie to me unless the child just was being pushed by a parent.

 

These rules are a product of the computer age. When my daughter, who started cruising with me at the age of 12, we would visit Camp Carnival during the welcome aboard orientation. My daughter would decide at that time which age group she wanted to join, and as her parent, I would list her age as being within that group. No one was the wiser, and nobody really cared. Fast forward to the present; on board computers generate lists of all children and their ages. Camp Carnival counselors are told to strictly adhere to the age specific requirements of each age group. Any deviation now requires approval of a dept head.

 

rules are guidance. not laws...which are meant to be bent! why are people so hell bent on "following the rules" that someone arbitrarily decided would be good for the masses???

 

 

I tend to feel I am a little more mature than many people I meet...maybe I should just go ahead and apply for Social Security early...that is if age groups are only meant as a guideline!

[DGP1111]

Thanks for asking:D Carole

 

And Thanks for your reply. Greatly appreciated! :)

Take care.

[katiel53]

If you do not want to follow the rules at my house, you should not come to visit and are not welcome; If you do not want to follow the cruise Line rules you should not cruise on the cruise line. The ship is private property and you are bound by the property owners. Every rule ever made was in response to some problem someone encountered. Follow the rules or stay home.

 

I totally agree with you, but that just makes two of us. We wonder why today's kids don't respect anything and then surprise----you meet the parents who feel no rules apply to them or their kids, only others.

 

The ME generation is huge and growing daily because of how parents lie, (my child is 9 when the child is 8) cheat (give them the answers to trivia )and steal (share soda cards that are meant for one person) and teach their kids that it's ok as long as you don't get caught.

 

It is so sad. Morals of today leave a lot to be desired. JMO.

[IwannaGo Now]

Everybody knows when you're on a cruise vacation, there are no rules that "you" have to follow. This is an opportune time to teach your children that they don't have to follow the rules either, after all the rules are for "others" to abide by. It's okay for diapers in the pool, kids in the adult areas, hot tubs, and casinos, not having to follow age restrictions....etc ad nauseum, It's okay to do whatever you want. And if you learn well you can extend that attitude to laws too, as an "adult"! I recently was on MSC's Orchestra, and despite unavoidable signs on the Balcony door citing NO smoking on the Balcony, my neighbor decided that the rule didn't apply to them, and smoked long, and often...on the balcony. They were traveling with 2 kids, so it was necessary to teach them not to follow the rules. We are doomed to become a lawless society. It's just a matter of time. :eek:

[Th3BuffetAssassin]

Some rules can be bent or broken. It depends on the situation. If every rule was followed all the time then we would be robots. When I'm on vacation I just avoid every possible conflict and go with the flow.

[LemurCat]

We are doomed to become a lawless society. It's just a matter of time. :eek:

 

You realize that every generation from World War II on has made that same comment about the generation that's come after it. It's just a matter of time before I'm making it about your kids. ;)

[G'ma]

I love reading the reviews from all types of people, however, there was one for the Legend on the review page that just irrated me so I thought I would jump in with my 2 cents.

 

Someone complained that the head of Camp Carnival did not want to allow their child to participate in the 9 to 11 age group. The child was 8. I am so sorry, why in the world would they have an age group listed if they were to always break the rules. In her case they did after several days of complaining. The person rated the trip a 2 so it seems Carnival could not please the person.

 

I love listening to all types of reviews, however, I am a firm believer in rules. Ok I am done now and feel so much better. Thanks for listening.:)

 

As you probably know, there are some among us who think the rules only apply to others...never to themselves....

 

Or, they pick and choose which rules they wish to follow and bedammed the rest.

 

Someone smarter than I once said "If you have integrity, nothing else matters. If you don't have integrity, nothing else matters."

[Cruzman]

I'm sorry but I don't buy into the whole "rules should bend with needs or wants" and luckily in our society the laws don't bend for needs or wants either.

JMO, Carole

 

You obviously have never been in law enforcement! Rules (laws) are bent routinely. It is simply a question of degree. Have you any idea how clogged the system would get if we busted everyone who is caught with a little MJ?

[yst347]

You obviously have never been in law enforcement! Rules (laws) are bent routinely. It is simply a question of degree. Have you any idea how clogged the system would get if we busted everyone who is caught with a little MJ?

 

Yeah...I have to agree. Here is a recent example, thirty days for killing someone while driving drunk. All too often justice is for sale in our nation.:(

 

http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news?prov=ap&slug=ap-stallworth-pedestriankilled&type=lgns

[NYteacher]

As a teacher I've noticed something interesting about my colleagues who are the strictest about enforcing their rules on the students. The most rigid teachers complain the most about Department of Education rules being applied to them.

 

One example: a teacher who insisted that every late child have a late pass. I accompanied a child back to her class and explained I had been with the child for a mandated test. The teacher told me she wouldn't accept the student into her class without a pass, and then waited while I wrote out a pass. This teacher could not accept any flexibility at all, to the point that she lost the concept about an unexcused lateness vs. a non-written pass. This same teacher was indignant about being forced out of the system as she hadn't completed her Master's Degree in 17 years, despite accumulating a significant number of graduate credits. She couldn't understand why the department of education couldn't simply accept her "good faith" effort.

 

I've found kids are much bigger sticklers for rules than grownups.

[Cruzman]

Those of you who take the ridgid approach to the OP's question, consider some laws that are currently on the books in the state of Nebraska and ask yourself if you want such rules (laws) enforced. Note that there are similar statutes in every state.

 

Nebraska Stupid laws

 

 

Better teach your kids a few new church tricks in Nebraska…

A parent can be arrested if his child cannot hold back a burp during a church service.

 

The owner of every hotel in Hastings, Nebraska, is required to provide each guest with a clean and pressed nightshirt. No couple, even if they are married, may sleep together in the nude. Nor may they have sex unless they are wearing one of these clean, white cotton nightshirts.

 

Nebraska stupid and crazy laws by county

 

* Doughnut holes may not be sold. (Lehigh)

* Sneezing or burping is illegal during a church service. (Omaha)

* A man is not allowed to run around with a shaved chest. (Omaha)

* Barbers are forbidden from eating onions between 7 A.M. and 7 P.M. (Waterloo)

[Drew B]

IMO, rules should not be broken, but that doesn't mean they can't be changed. I'm certainly more on the "follow the rules" side, but am not completely rigid about it. I have no problem with the parents politely asking the staff of Camp Carnival if their child could participate in the older group. If they were told "yes", then they would be operating under a different set of rules (or an "exception" if you will). However, when they were told "no", they should have accepted it and shut up about it. It's not fair to others (from the Camp Carnival staff to the readers of the review) to inflict their unwarranted negativity upon them...

[T. Advisor King]

First of all, everyone breaks rules. Or, if you want to debate that, you’ll have to concede that 95+% of people break rules. If the speed limit is 30 mph, almost no one drives at or under 30. Most drive 35 or maybe 40. Of course, it depends on the circumstances, but on an "average" roadway with a 30 mph speed limit, there are very few people driving at or below 30 and the vast majority driving at 31 mph or more. They are all breaking not just a "rule", but the law.

When you consider rules, you have to think about the principle behind the rule. What is it trying to accomplish? Is it there for safety, for “fairness”, to keep things running smoothly, or for some other reason? If you understand the reason for the rule and want/need to break the rule, but can still achieve the desired outcome of the rule, then it’s probably not a big deal to break the rule. If you don’t understand the reason for the rule, then you should do some research, or just follow the rule. You never know what harm you might be inflicting if you break a rule that you don’t understand in the first place.

As for the specific case, I can see both sides of things. Maybe the 8-year old is particularly shy (or maybe even has a social disability) but had an older brother/sister in the older age group. Maybe the 8 year old was in the third grade and was coming up to his 9th birthday and was on the cruise with other families with other fourth graders who had all had their 9th birthday already. Would it really make sense to force one kid from the same school class into a different group than his classmates, even though those classmates are only a few weeks older?

I agree with the poster(s) who have said that “everyone is an exception” or “some people act like rules are for other people”. Many people do ignore rules just because they can. However, I believe there are very few rules where there shouldn’t be room for flexibility when the circumstances warrant it.