P and O change/Cancellation policy

Let's follow this concept of "Fairness" through with a hypothetical.

 

I book a cruise January 2016 for $7,000 putting down a $900 deposit, the cruise leaves January 2017

 

In November 2016 I cancel due to financial hardship, or some other reason not covered by insurance. The cruise line re sells my stateroom for $4,500 as this close to sailing it's the best they can get.

 

Should I be responsible to pay the cruise line an additional $1,600 to cover their loss?

 

After all if we demand "Fairness" from one side, shouldn't it be fair for both ?

I agree with your argument but

The cruise line sets the deposit requirements to meet any shortfall caused by cancellation. Their marketing targets will not be the maximum selling price, nor will they sell the stateroom where they will suffer an actual loss, only a reduction in maximum profit. So no they cannot claim a loss from the consumer. The deposit policy forms part of the contract.

However the term 'unfair' is that used in the Consumer Rights Act to describe a contract which is unbalanced. Under the Act when you agree to a deal as per the T& C s you are entering into a contract which has not been negotiated by you. It has been preset.

For the contract to be fair it should not be written so it is unbalanced to the detriment of either side. That also means clarity and transparency. It is not acceptable for the supplier to withhold a deposit in total without the consumer being able to see the costs suffered by the supplier if they so requre.

In your example the supplier would be able to provide a statement that they suffered a loss on the projected business income, and that would be fair.

I think people use the term 'unfair' as a complaint where the law uses it as a description of imbalance.

Let's follow this concept of "Fairness" through with a hypothetical.

 

I book a cruise January 2016 for $7,000 putting down a $900 deposit, the cruise leaves January 2017

 

In November 2016 I cancel due to financial hardship, or some other reason not covered by insurance. The cruise line re sells my stateroom for $4,500 as this close to sailing it's the best they can get.

 

Should I be responsible to pay the cruise line an additional $1,600 to cover their loss?

 

After all if we demand "Fairness" from one side, shouldn't it be fair for both ?

I have another take on this

If you cancelled in Nov 16 and that is less than 90 days before the cruise sails in Jan 17 then you would have paid the balance of the booking totalling $7000.

If, after your cancellation, the cruise line sells the cabin for $4500 then they will have received $11,500 for that booking.

If they operate with 'fairness' they should then contact you and return $4500 less administration and marketing costs that they incurred because of your cancellation.

That is where the Consumer Rights Act really matters, because the cruise line has no right to make a profit from your cancellation.

I have another take on this

If you cancelled in Nov 16 and that is less than 90 days before the cruise sails in Jan 17 then you would have paid the balance of the booking totalling $7000.

If, after your cancellation, the cruise line sells the cabin for $4500 then they will have received $11,500 for that booking.

If they operate with 'fairness' they should then contact you and return $4500 less administration and marketing costs that they incurred because of your cancellation.

That is where the Consumer Rights Act really matters, because the cruise line has no right to make a profit from your cancellation.

Well actually November 1 2016 to January 31 2017 is 91 days.

The point I'm making is that fairness is a two way street, and if we are honest, have to consider both sides of an argument. If regulations are too onerous the result can be higher costs to the consumer to cover compliance and risk, as seen in higher pricing for cruises out of the U.K. when compared to North America or relocation of the ships to a more regulation friendly location.

Government intervention, regulations, are necessary to make the playing field level, but can have unintended consequences. Consider why no cruise ships are registered in either Great Britain or the U.S. (withe the exception of one in Hawaii). To have Cunard flag their ships offshore really demonstrated this point.

To be pedantic, Britannia is registered in Southampton I believe.

Have just submitted a review...presumably it will take a few days to get authorised. Tried to copy and paste it but my ipad wouldnt let me, so I will just come back and post a link when it is published!

Have just had email from CC ....they can't publish my review....because the Boat I sailed on does not appear in their drop down list of boats for Riviera cruises..... doh! Could they not add it to their list? No, because we were the last trip on that particular boat...! Oh well, rather than totally hijack this thread I will start a new on one the P&O boards, especially as I have written it with a view to providing a comparison between Ocean and River Cruises.

P&O have a very poor cancellation policy and Show no discretion or empathy to their customers. On the contrary, they clearly consider their customers to be disposable and are only interested in making money from them.

Two months before our cruise my 85-year-old mother fell and broke her hip. Realising this may be an issue I phoned and requested to change our cruise to one later in the year. I was prepared to pay the £100 fee and change to a more expensive cruise. The answer was no. Basically the view of P&O appears to be once they have your money that is that; they would not allow any alterations and basically told me to cancel and claim from our insurance. This of course will cost me money as both my mother and I have excesses on our insurance. (Not voluntary) P&O are over £2,000 better off without lifting a finger.

I find it very difficult to believe that in this day and age of improving customer service and increasing competition a company can treat their customers with total disregard in this manner; they deserve to lose custom. I can only assume they are playing a percentage game, working out that only a small percentage of customers have these problems and the money they gain from them is worth losing custom for. They may well be right. I am planning a world cruise in 2020 and will not be using P&O. If I can avoid using any of their sister companies I will do so. I will also ensure friends, family, business associates and customers are aware of my story and P&O’s lack of care for their customers.

P&O have a very poor cancellation policy and Show no discretion or empathy to their customers. On the contrary, they clearly consider their customers to be disposable and are only interested in making money from them.

Two months before our cruise my 85-year-old mother fell and broke her hip. Realising this may be an issue I phoned and requested to change our cruise to one later in the year. I was prepared to pay the £100 fee and change to a more expensive cruise. The answer was no. Basically the view of P&O appears to be once they have your money that is that; they would not allow any alterations and basically told me to cancel and claim from our insurance. This of course will cost me money as both my mother and I have excesses on our insurance. (Not voluntary) P&O are over £2,000 better off without lifting a finger.

I find it very difficult to believe that in this day and age of improving customer service and increasing competition a company can treat their customers with total disregard in this manner; they deserve to lose custom. I can only assume they are playing a percentage game, working out that only a small percentage of customers have these problems and the money they gain from them is worth losing custom for. They may well be right. I am planning a world cruise in 2020 and will not be using P&O. If I can avoid using any of their sister companies I will do so. I will also ensure friends, family, business associates and customers are aware of my story and P&O’s lack of care for their customers.

Apparently a few years ago Princess? did a study that showed that they made more profit from new cruisers as on average the more cruises someone does the less on board spend. to be brutal about it maybe they consider a 85 year old will basically spend nothing and is likely to have medical problems so they would rather have someone younger thank you very much! The bottom line is all that counts.

P&O have a very poor cancellation policy and Show no discretion or empathy to their customers. On the contrary, they clearly consider their customers to be disposable and are only interested in making money from them.

Two months before our cruise my 85-year-old mother fell and broke her hip. Realising this may be an issue I phoned and requested to change our cruise to one later in the year. I was prepared to pay the £100 fee and change to a more expensive cruise. The answer was no. Basically the view of P&O appears to be once they have your money that is that; they would not allow any alterations and basically told me to cancel and claim from our insurance. This of course will cost me money as both my mother and I have excesses on our insurance. (Not voluntary) P&O are over £2,000 better off without lifting a finger.

I find it very difficult to believe that in this day and age of improving customer service and increasing competition a company can treat their customers with total disregard in this manner; they deserve to lose custom. I can only assume they are playing a percentage game, working out that only a small percentage of customers have these problems and the money they gain from them is worth losing custom for. They may well be right. I am planning a world cruise in 2020 and will not be using P&O. If I can avoid using any of their sister companies I will do so. I will also ensure friends, family, business associates and customers are aware of my story and P&O’s lack of care for their customers.

I am surprised by your story. Last year, we broke down on the way to Southampton and it soon became clear that we would not get there before the ship sailed. We gave progress reports to the terminal and returned home in a breakdown truck having missed our cruise. Our insurance would have paid to transport us to the first port (Lisbon) to pick up the ship and P&O told us that they would provide transport from the airport to the ship. As poor flyers, we declined the offer. Despite this, we were allowed to transfer the money we had paid for the cruise (minus £100 admin fee) to another cruise. Insurer covered the £100. Next day, we got a phone call from the ship to offer sympathies and to check that we were not going to fly to Lisbon.

P&O could not have been more helpful and I think it fair to say, greatly exceeded my expectations.

I'm surprised that P&O won't allow you to change to another cruise. Has the policy now changed? I recently changed a cruise with Cunard. I had no problem doing so. The same rules were applied, I had to pay £100 and book a more expensive cruise As they are both Carnival owned I would have thought P&O would still be doing the same.

I don't know if it's relevant but as I understand it up until the time you pay the final balance you can transfer your booking to another cruise of the same or more cost but not to one of lesser cost and you pay the admin fee of £100. However, if you have paid the final balance then they will not let you transfer the cruise and any cancellation means you have to claim the money back from your insurance company. I have had examples of both of those. We had a cruise booked on Oceana and a few months after we'd booked it - about 8 months before we were due to sail - and had paid the deposit but not the final balance, one of my daughters announced she was pregnant and that the baby was due on the date we were due to sail. I was able to transfer the cruise to the following year to one of slightly greater value and had to pay the admin fee of £100.

On the second occasion, we had paid the final balance and about a month before we were due to go I broke my ankle. On this occasion even though the same cruise was available the next year, I they would not allow me to transfer to another cruise and we had to cancel and claim the money back from our insurance - which we did with no problem. So as I've understood it whether you can transfer or not depends on if you've paid the final balance. Of course they will not let you transfer to another cruise of lesser value, even if the price of the cabin you've booked goes down. I suppose if they allowed that they'd have people changing bookings all the time.

The other thing I've done, with no charge was to transfer a booking from one cabin to another of the same grade - in fact the one next door. We'd booked an aft suite on Azura and after we'd booked I discovered that some of the aft suites have a beam going through the balcony - our was one of those - so I was able to move to the cabin next door with no admin charge.

http://www.pocruises.com/Global/Legal/booking-conditions-2017.pdf

Page nine has the relevant information

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I don't know if it's relevant but as I understand it up until the time you pay the final balance you can transfer your booking to another cruise of the same or more cost but not to one of lesser cost and you pay the admin fee of £100. However, if you have paid the final balance then they will not let you transfer the cruise and any cancellation means you have to claim the money back from your insurance company. I have had examples of both of those. We had a cruise booked on Oceana and a few months after we'd booked it - about 8 months before we were due to sail - and had paid the deposit but not the final balance, one of my daughters announced she was pregnant and that the baby was due on the date we were due to sail. I was able to transfer the cruise to the following year to one of slightly greater value and had to pay the admin fee of £100.

On the second occasion, we had paid the final balance and about a month before we were due to go I broke my ankle. On this occasion even though the same cruise was available the next year, I they would not allow me to transfer to another cruise and we had to cancel and claim the money back from our insurance - which we did with no problem. So as I've understood it whether you can transfer or not depends on if you've paid the final balance. Of course they will not let you transfer to another cruise of lesser value, even if the price of the cabin you've booked goes down. I suppose if they allowed that they'd have people changing bookings all the time.

The other thing I've done, with no charge was to transfer a booking from one cabin to another of the same grade - in fact the one next door. We'd booked an aft suite on Azura and after we'd booked I discovered that some of the aft suites have a beam going through the balcony - our was one of those - so I was able to move to the cabin next door with no admin charge.

I had assumed that only a deposit had been paid. Of course as you say if the final balance has been paid that's different. The only option for the OP is to claim on their travel insurance.

I had assumed that only a deposit had been paid. Of course as you say if the final balance has been paid that's different. The only option for the OP is to claim on their travel insurance.

Hi...I wouldn't think the OP's travel insurance would cover their reason for cancelling

Hi...I wouldn't think the OP's travel insurance would cover their reason for cancelling

Why not ? An 85 year old lady with broken hip is going to find it very difficult to travel.

Why not ? An 85 year old lady with broken hip is going to find it very difficult to travel.

Not quite sure what you are referring to but my answer....as I stated... was to the OP whose reason was a change of their financial circumstances.

I suggest you google the unfair contract terms rules which are part of the consumer rights act 2015. In short firms are not entitled to keep any sum that could reasonabley be saved by reselling a holiday to another customer

So if P&O sell out your cabin grade (not just your cabin) on your cancelled cruise they should not keep all your money. Companies are only apparently allowed to charge what your cancellation has actually cost them plus reasonable administration costs. If they resell then it has cost them nothing, unless they have to resell at a lower price.

There have been a couple of test cases on this but they have settled at the door of the court so to speak. Holiday companies are apparently the worst offenders as they will be well aware of the legislation but it’s reported that they generally won’t budge unless action is initiated.

Someone on here provided the info about this, won and got their deposit returned. Can’t remember their name but it was in the last year they posted about it. They may see this and offer you more informed advice than I can.

I had assumed that only a deposit had been paid. Of course as you say if the final balance has been paid that's different. The only option for the OP is to claim on their travel insurance.

Was it a select fare or Saver fare ?

Also Kaitie said " they would not allow any alterations and basically told me to cancel and claim from our insurance. This of course will cost me money as both my mother and I have excesses on our insurance. (Not voluntary) P&O are over £2,000 better off without lifting a finger.

If I'm reading this right ,this was a very expensive cruise if the insurance excess is over £2k :eek:

Or is it a case of not covered by insurance, which I thought would be covered by a medical certificate from the lady's doctor.

A sad story and I wish the Ops mother a speedy recovery.

Not quite sure what you are referring to but my answer....as I stated... was to the OP whose reason was a change of their financial circumstances.

The original poster started this thread in January 2016. Probably Travel Junkie would have been better to start his/her own thread. My comment was with regard to Travel Junkies post on a similar theme.

;)I got mixed up as well ,my post should read Travel junkie said ...

Katie Middleton however never posted again, just the one post back in 2016.

Maybe she got in with the royals and had no more need for us . ;):confused:

Not quite sure what you are referring to but my answer....as I stated... was to the OP whose reason was a change of their financial circumstances.

I was looking at Travel Junkie 1 post which said that her 85 year-old mother had broken her hip. The original post is very old and Travel Junkie 1 had added their experience to it.

I do get a little suspicious when people post something very critical as their first post and then do not post again. It will be interesting to see whether Travel Junkie 1 posts again in reply to some of the posts that people have made in response. If so, I would like them to clarify whether it was booked on a select or saver fare. If they took advantage of the lower saver fare, the terms and conditions attached to such a fare make it very clear that it is non-refundable. That is one of the reasons why I and many others pay extra and book select. I don’t know what the excess on the insurance policy is, but on a £2000+ cruise, there must be a decent amount left once the excess has been deducted.

;)I got mixed up as well ,my post should read Travel junkie said ...

 

 

 

Katie Middleton however never posted again, just the one post back in 2016.

 

 

 

Maybe she got in with the royals and had no more need for us . ;):confused:

Haha [emoji4][emoji4]

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;)I got mixed up as well ,my post should read Travel junkie said ...

 

Katie Middleton however never posted again, just the one post back in 2016.

 

Maybe she got in with the royals and had no more need for us . ;):confused:

That made me smile too.:D:D

;)I got mixed up as well ,my post should read Travel junkie said ...

 

Katie Middleton however never posted again, just the one post back in 2016.

 

Maybe she got in with the royals and had no more need for us . ;):confused:

Maybe she turned into travel junkie 1in order to resurrect the post she started and never posted on again

I had assumed that only a deposit had been paid. Of course as you say if the final balance has been paid that's different. The only option for the OP is to claim on their travel insurance.

When it is said "if the final balance has been paid", does this mean after the deadline when the final balance was due to be paid and has been paid. I am thinking about people who book years ahead and pay 100% of the fare at the time of booking. Will they not be disadvantaged from the outset?

Regards John