Fathom to cease operations; R3 back to P&O

With Fathom ceasing operations in July 2017 and R3 unexpectedly returning to P&O, is this perhaps an excellent opportunity for Azamara to finally acquire a third R class ship?

http://www.travelweekly.com/Cruise-Travel/Fathom-cruises-going-away-but-brand-remains-for-excursions?cid=eltrdb

Cheers,

Floris

It's one of their last two opportunities, but whenever this comes up someone claims that CCL would never sell a ship to RCL. Also, if it took Oceania $40 million to bring Serena up to their standard, would Azamara be willing to plow that much into such an old ship? It's less than a new build would cost, but it's far from nothing.

Adonia being the old R8 would require the same work as Quest & Journey to add the CC suites on deck 8 so this would add significantly to any refurbishment costs.

LP has also stated that there will be no increase in tonnage for Azamara in the short term so although we would all love to see a third ship with the expansion of itineraries it would bring I don't think it will happen.

Although it's always interesting to speculate on what may happen and I can't see Adonia featuring in P&O's plans, they are moving towards the large resort ship's and have another one on order even bigger than Britannia. Crystal have confirmed LP's thoughts on overcapacity in the luxury sector and have delayed their new builds whilst announcing plans to reduce capacity on Symphony.

I do however think that Azamara have a great niche market and would be able to fill another ship by providing itineraries that currently we have to go to alternative lines for, would CCL sell the ship to RCL? Of course they would, it's a business deal and if you can get money for an asset that you can't make money with why not get money for it from a competitor.

Sent from my iPad using Forums

All good points! And yes, there's nothing more to do than speculating at this time but sometimes that's fun [emoji846]

Larry said on the LCV voyage that he would prefer a third R-class ship over a new build, but added that none were for sale. Hence this news intrigues me!

Sent from my iPhone using Forums

I unfortunately can't edit the title of this thread, but Riocca is right: it should say R8.

Sent from my iPhone using Forums

Adonia being the old R8 would require the same work as Quest & Journey to add the CC suites on deck 8 so this would add significantly to any refurbishment costs.

LP has also stated that there will be no increase in tonnage for Azamara in the short term so although we would all love to see a third ship with the expansion of itineraries it would bring I don't think it will happen.

Although it's always interesting to speculate on what may happen and I can't see Adonia featuring in P&O's plans, they are moving towards the large resort ship's and have another one on order even bigger than Britannia. Crystal have confirmed LP's thoughts on overcapacity in the luxury sector and have delayed their new builds whilst announcing plans to reduce capacity on Symphony.

I do however think that Azamara have a great niche market and would be able to fill another ship by providing itineraries that currently we have to go to alternative lines for, would CCL sell the ship to RCL? Of course they would, it's a business deal and if you can get money for an asset that you can't make money with why not get money for it from a competitor.

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Forums

During a Q and A on the LCV cruise Larry was not as definite that there would be no additional tonnage. He seemed to be saying no new builds, he also said he thought the Azamara size was perfect and that they "knew where all the R class vessels were" He also did not rule out a refurbishment of one of them.

I think you are right despite competitive desires no corporate is going to be allowed to retain something that is not working for them if a realistic offer was on the table. We can all sit and watch this space, maybe nothing will come of it and this poor R8 ship will be consigned to another fate but.............who knows

Apart from the fact it would cost a lot of money to bring R3 up to snuff. Apparently it hasn't been maintained that well when compared to Journey and Quest and there would be a lot hidden expense I'm sure.

Certainly from a customer perspective CCL doesn't look after it's ships as well as RCL but Adonia is no doubt in better condition than Pacific Princess and has had two recent refits in moving from Princess to P&O and P&O to fathom. But a lot would depend on the mechanical condition of the ship and that's something none of us would know.

As regards the passenger areas these would have to be refitted to the latest specifications of the Azamara ships so there current condition is immaterial.

At the end of the day we can only speculate and wish, it will be down to RCL's want to expand Azamara and CCL's decision to operate or sell the ship. From our point of view we are currently spending our cruise £'s with other lines because Azamara aren't offering all the itineraries we want, hopefully a third ship would keep us happy [emoji4]

Sent from my iPad using Forums

Speculation stopped. This from P& O cruises on FB:

Good afternoon, as the Fathom experience has been expanded across many Carnival brands sailing to the Dominican Republic and beyond, we are pleased to let you know that we have Adonia, our well loved small ship, sailing a range of discovery itineraries from June 2017. These will be on general sale from December 8, 2016.

There is a lot of excitement on the P&O forum looking forward to Adonia's return and it will be interesting to see what sort of itineraries are on offer. However judging by the offers and prices prior to the move to fathom they were possibly struggling to keep the ship full.

Sent from my iPad using Forums

Speculation stopped. This from P& O cruises on FB:

 

 

 

Good afternoon, as the Fathom experience has been expanded across many Carnival brands sailing to the Dominican Republic and beyond, we are pleased to let you know that we have Adonia, our well loved small ship, sailing a range of discovery itineraries from June 2017. These will be on general sale from December 8, 2016.

They were never not going to have itineraries, June is only 7 months away. I doubt Adonia will be with P&O for long; they failed to operate the ship at solid margins before and that won't be different this time. The question is whether or not RCI / Azamara would make an aggressive enough bid to trigger interest...

Sent from my iPhone using Forums

Adonia/R8 would require more extensive work than any other R-ship because its deck 8 has no suites. Pacific Princess/R3 has all suites on deck 8, like all the R-ships from 1 to 5. Despite the impression that all R-ships were identical, there was a rolling change after R5 -- R6 and R7 have half suites on deck 8, and R8 has none.

Adonia/R8 would require more extensive work than any other R-ship because its deck 8 has no suites. Pacific Princess/R3 has all suites on deck 8, like all the R-ships from 1 to 5. Despite the impression that all R-ships were identical, there was a rolling change after R5 -- R6 and R7 have half suites on deck 8, and R8 has none.

R6 & R7 were originally the same as R8 with no small suites on deck 8 they were added in the dry dock pre Celebrity/Azamara. There's a YouTube video available showing the suites being added.

Sent from my iPad using Forums

R6 & R7 were originally the same as R8 with no small suites on deck 8 they were added in the dry dock pre Celebrity/Azamara. There's a YouTube video available showing the suites being added.

Thanks. The deck plans for the various R-ships made me think that Renaissance had gradually throttled back on suites for some reason. Changing 48 cabins into 32 suites must have been very difficult -- I take it the R-ships were built up, rather than having modular cabins installed? So Azamara could do the same trick with R8 if they got it? Although IMO the full-suite deck 8 like R1-5 would be even better, I guess it would be confusing if one ship was different from the other two.

Speculation stopped. This from P& O cruises on FB:

 

Good afternoon, as the Fathom experience has been expanded across many Carnival brands sailing to the Dominican Republic and beyond, we are pleased to let you know that we have Adonia, our well loved small ship, sailing a range of discovery itineraries from June 2017. These will be on general sale from December 8, 2016.

P and O have now planned Adonia cruises throughout 2018

We were on the Fathom Adonia in October to Cuba. Ship is in very good condition! From what I've read, the Brits are ecstatic about her going back to P&O - they love her small size. So I doubt P&O/CCL would entertain selling her anytime soon.

Azamara should look at the Pacific Princess (R3) if they're interested in acquiring existing similar tonnage, tho I've read it's not in the best of shape. But would it be for sale? Might take another $40million to bring her up to Azamara's standards, like it did for Oceania to create Sirena. CCL sold the R4 to NCL, why not the R3 to RCL?

Pure speculation, of course. But what else is out there that might be a fit for Azamara?

P&O have the same problem with Adonia that Princess have with Pacific in that although both ships have a faithful following there's an expectation that pricing should be similar to that of their larger ships. This makes it difficult for either ship to be operated profitably, no doubt as when Adonia was originally transferred from Princess there will be a reasonable demand for the cruises but this soon tailed off last time. So the real question is can P&O operate the ship profitably, and if not how long are they prepared to operate it at a loss?

Sent from my iPad using Forums