Airfare or points for flight to Australia

We have a Transpacific cruise coming up in 2018 (April), but I plan ahead and have been checking airfare on kayak and with AA and Delta including parter airlines for our flights.

We start at JAX (Jacksonville, FLA) and want to go to Melbourne, Australia, probably via LAX, then return from Seattle to JAX since we arrive in Seattle on the TP.

When I run the cost on Delta (our preferred airline-we have a lot of sky miles), using an open jaw, the airfare comes out some absurd $4000 or more. When I run it using miles, I get a message that miles aren't available for that trip.

However, I tried breaking up the trip and I ran one-way LAX to Melbourne and it came up about a $1000 or 45,000 miles pp.

When I run cost on open jaw JAX to LAX then Seattle to JAX, it runs about $700 pp or 45,000 pp.

We just did flights a few months ago, JAX to Vancouver then Anchorage to JAX that cost us about $550 pp. Therefore, I was surprised at the open jaw JAX to LAX then Seattle to JAX.

I did find cheaper tickets using Southwest, but not sure I want that many stops.

On Kayak, I found a one-way fare from JAX to Melbourne that stopped China. The price was about $800, but it involved two back to back 12-14 hr flights.

I am thinking using points for the one way to Australia and shopping around for the domestic.

We have a Transpacific cruise coming up in 2018 (April), but I plan ahead and have been checking airfare on kayak and with AA and Delta including parter airlines for our flights.

 

We start at JAX (Jacksonville, FLA) and want to go to Melbourne, Australia, probably via LAX, then return from Seattle to JAX since we arrive in Seattle on the TP.

 

When I run the cost on Delta (our preferred airline-we have a lot of sky miles), using an open jaw, the airfare comes out some absurd $4000 or more. When I run it using miles, I get a message that miles aren't available for that trip.

 

However, I tried breaking up the trip and I ran one-way LAX to Melbourne and it came up about a $1000 or 45,000 miles pp.

 

When I run cost on open jaw JAX to LAX then Seattle to JAX, it runs about $700 pp or 45,000 pp.

 

We just did flights a few months ago, JAX to Vancouver then Anchorage to JAX that cost us about $550 pp. Therefore, I was surprised at the open jaw JAX to LAX then Seattle to JAX.

 

I did find cheaper tickets using Southwest, but not sure I want that many stops.

 

On Kayak, I found a one-way fare from JAX to Melbourne that stopped China. The price was about $800, but it involved two back to back 12-14 hr flights.

 

I am thinking using points for the one way to Australia and shopping around for the domestic.

Why don't you CALL the AA International Awards desk/department?

It might help if you first use the matrix software to identify preferred airlines, routes, and schedules.

You'll get the best use of points with AA if you use a partner airline rather than AA for international (usually).

They might be able to get you on one ticket, rather than two separate tickets, just like when one pays. But the awards might be the same either way, a good deal if if works!

Check SeatGuru.com so you can request good seats.

I would think a one way flight to Australia on points would be a wise use of the points.

Then book the the JAX-LAX and SEA-JAX as two one way airfares, or an open jaw. Look to see which works best. There are several reasons booking two one way flights might work better.

For an open-jaw fare to work, the "jaw" distance has to be the shortest of the three. In your case, it's far from that; JAX-MEL is fine, but SEA-JAX is obviously much shorter than MEL-SEA.

So you'll need basically two one-way tickets, one to Oz and the other domestic. Using miles for the outbound and cash for the domestic is fine, although getting space in anything except coach to Australia during the southern cruise season is going to be tough. And of course it's still months before you'll be able to book anything, using miles or cash.

I wouldn't worry about the domestic connections outbound or on return. April isn't a high demand period for US domestic flights, so you ought to have decent options, again either using miles or cash. The JAX-XXX-MEL segments should be booked as one ticket; you won't save anything (either miles or dollars) by having separate tickets to LAX or some other connecting point.

For an open-jaw fare to work, the "jaw" distance has to be the shortest of the three. In your case, it's far from that; JAX-MEL is fine, but SEA-JAX is obviously much shorter than MEL-SEA.

 

So you'll need basically two one-way tickets, one to Oz and the other domestic. Using miles for the outbound and cash for the domestic is fine, although getting space in anything except coach to Australia during the southern cruise season is going to be tough. And of course it's still months before you'll be able to book anything, using miles or cash.

 

I wouldn't worry about the domestic connections outbound or on return. April isn't a high demand period for US domestic flights, so you ought to have decent options, again either using miles or cash. The JAX-XXX-MEL segments should be booked as one ticket; you won't save anything (either miles or dollars) by having separate tickets to LAX or some other connecting point.

Agree with Gardyloo.

Using awards miles/points for domestic coach/economy tickets is usually not a particularly good use of them.

So paying cash for that domestic return home probably makes the most sense. If you start looking at fares early, once the schedule opens up, you'll probably come across some attractive fares reasonably soon.

If you use AAdvantage award miles/points for the outbound, including that very long haul to Australia, depending upon how many miles/points you have, you might want to double check whether you could use a few more for business class. This length of flight is when you'd probably really appreciate that extra comfort.

(And look for an airline that has *flat* bed in business class. There are more and more of those.)

The top international airlines usually have equipment and service that is far superior than domestic airlines for international travel.

And you'd probably use fewer AAdvantage awards miles/points using their international partners than if you use those awards on AA flights.

That was our recent experience getting tickets using AAdvantage awards for flights on JAL and Cathay Pacific, for next spring.

Thanks for the assistance. I have some points on AA, but frankly prefer not to use that airline, especially the long one-way. I have many more miles on Delta.

I did find some low award on AA for the domestic portion of the trip, but the connections were not so great.

We thought about taking the train from Seattle to LA, then being able to do a JAX-LAX domestic RT. The coastal train could be nice, but looks to cost over $200 pp.

Thanks for the assistance. I have some points on AA, but frankly prefer not to use that airline, especially the long one-way. I have many more miles on Delta.

 

I did find some low award on AA for the domestic portion of the trip, but the connections were not so great.

 

We thought about taking the train from Seattle to LA, then being able to do a JAX-LAX domestic RT. The coastal train could be nice, but looks to cost over $200 pp.

Note that we suggested that you NOT use AA for the actual travel... just their awards for travel on a different international airline.

(We prefer not to use AA either!)

Thanks for the assistance. I have some points on AA, but frankly prefer not to use that airline, especially the long one-way. I have many more miles on Delta.

 

I did find some low award on AA for the domestic portion of the trip, but the connections were not so great.

 

We thought about taking the train from Seattle to LA, then being able to do a JAX-LAX domestic RT. The coastal train could be nice, but looks to cost over $200 pp.

To repeat, if you're using miles to get to Australia, don't worry about the connection from home to the N. American gateway. The cost in miles (whether it's AA or Delta) will be the same regardless of where in the US you start.

The problem with Delta miles is the absence of many partners that fly to Australia. Many award flights to Australia using Delta miles require that you use Korean Airlines with a plane change at Seoul, or Chinese Southern with a change in Guangzhou, both of which add many thousands of miles and hours to the trip. Delta has very few flights of its own across the Pacific, and none to Melbourne; they rely on their partner Virgin Australia both for domestic flights within Australia and also over the Pacific.

AA miles are slightly better, since Qantas is a big partner with numerous flights to Australia from LAX, DFW, SFO and JFK. AA also partners with Air Fiji and Hawaiian Airlines, and has a few flights of its own to Australia/NZ.

The trick to using SkyPesos to get to Oz is finding availability on partner carriers. The only flights on DL are from LAX to SYD and they are always priced at an exhorbitant level.

You'll want to look at their Asian partners, especially China Southern and China Eastern. It will take some effort, as many partner flights do NOT show up on DL web searches. My suggestion is for you to look into the various "tools", such as ExpertFlyer, KVS and AwardNexus. Also, use the AF website for SkyTeam searching.

Delta does not fly into MEL, nor do some other partners. You may very well need to fly into SYD or BNE and make a domestic connection to get to MEL.

Various routings to MEL would include:

China Eastern via Shanghai

China Southern via Guangzhou

Garuda via Jakarta

Virgin Australia from LAX (Seasonal)

Into SYD, you could go with the above, plus:

China Eastern via Beijing

Korean via Seoul

Now, even here you may be forced to have overnights along the way and circuitous routings. To get low level seats to SIN recently, I routed to NRT then PVG, overnight then to CGK (Jakarta) on to SIN, using three different airlines. Also remember that you can use DL to get to the hub in Asia, then the partner carrier for the rest of the way.

Availability is pretty good on China Southern and China Eastern from LAX due to the use of the A380. Garuda availability is also good in general, as many agents don't know to look for a routing through CGK. Korean has some wierd blackout dates and rules. There are other possibilities out there, but these would be the ones transiting the major hubs of the relevant airlines.

The biggest question, IMO, is to ask yourself what your priorities are? Fastest, cheapest, most comfortable? How many connects are you willing to have to save what? Is a forced overnight along the way a deal killer?

Hope that helps some.

Finally, you might find some good pricing for revenue tickets from LAX on CZ and MU, as they have been quite aggressive in attracting bodies onto their connecting itineraries (through either PVG or CAN).

Thanks guys for the good advice.

I did some more research and found that we can fly from LAX to Australia with a stopover in either Brisbane or Sydney on our way to Melbourne. The flights are with Virgin Australia. We took Virgin on our last trip to Australia from Sydney to Perth and the seats reclined more than on other airlines. Also, the service and food was pretty good compared to others.

A one-way from LAX to Melbourne would be 45k pp, which is not too bad.

I did find domestic flights from JAX to LAX and then returning from Seattle to JAX on Kayak and Marrix for a little less than $500, but the connections were not the best. I found better connections for about $580.

We could save about $100 doing a RT to LAX, but taking the train down the west cost from Seattle or Portland (we might visit Portland after the ship arrives in Seattle) that would cost about $200 pp. It might be worth the trip. Does anyone know if that rail trip is on a scenic route, like along the actual coast?

The only point where the rail line is along the coast is from Pismo Beach to Ventura. That doesn't mean it isn't scenic...it is still quite scenic. Unfortunately one of the scenic areas- the Mt Shasta area, will be at night.

If you haven't done the trip, I would seriously consider it.

I did some more research and found that we can fly from LAX to Australia with a stopover in either Brisbane or Sydney on our way to Melbourne.

Be careful using that term "stopover". That has a very specific meaning in the airline world, and is used to indicate that this is NOT a through connection. It is also indicative that we either have a "break" in the fare (into two components) or that the pricing is subject to fare rules that govern the cost of the "stopover".

If you are talking about getting off one flight and boarding another shortly thereafter, you should use the proper term "connection". Much different and more accurate (unless you are planning to stay a few days in SYD or BNE).

Finally, the term "layover" has no official meaning in airline terminology but is colloquially used, even by airlines, in place of connection. But, it could also be construed as a "stopover", so I always recommend not using it if you can help yourself.

Just so you are on the same page as your airline agent - and we won't get into the "non-stop vs direct" discussion here.

VA is a good airline - really enjoyed them in business, where the inflight bar is stocked with Balvenie Doublewood.

Be careful using that term "stopover". That has a very specific meaning in the airline world, and is used to indicate that this is NOT a through connection. It is also indicative that we either have a "break" in the fare (into two components) or that the pricing is subject to fare rules that govern the cost of the "stopover".

 

If you are talking about getting off one flight and boarding another shortly thereafter, you should use the proper term "connection". Much different and more accurate (unless you are planning to stay a few days in SYD or BNE).

 

Finally, the term "layover" has no official meaning in airline terminology but is colloquially used, even by airlines, in place of connection. But, it could also be construed as a "stopover", so I always recommend not using it if you can help yourself.

 

Just so you are on the same page as your airline agent - and we won't get into the "non-stop vs direct" discussion here.

 

VA is a good airline - really enjoyed them in business, where the inflight bar is stocked with Balvenie Doublewood.

FlyerTalk, yes, thank you for reminding me about the difference.

We may decide to buy our domestic tickets and use miles for the Australia one way. If we do that, we may decide to have a day to rest in LA before the long flight to Australia. We did that on our trip from JAX to CDG, spending the night in Paris, near the airport, then taking another long flight to Singapore.

We have a Transpacific cruise coming up in 2018 (April), but I plan ahead and have been checking airfare on kayak and with AA and Delta including parter airlines for our flights.

 

the airfare comes out some absurd $4000 or more. When I run it using miles, I get a message that miles aren't available for that trip.

 

Tickets are not yet available on any airline for April 2018. I assume you are searching April 2017 dates, assuming April 2018 will be the same? Either way, wherever you are seeing prices, you are NOT actually seeing prices for your true travel dates, which could end up being drastically different for any number of reasons.

We did a Jetstar flight (Qantas plane) from Sydney to Honoulu. We went onward from there. What we saved paid for our 2 day/1 night stay in HNL. It was a good break.

We flew TigerAir from Melbourne to Sydney. Flight was very inexpensive. Virgin often have some attractive offers as well. We flew then from Perth to Sydney and their fare was best by a long shot.

We had different timing than you in 2015. Out in early Feb, back in the first of March.

As couple of items. UAL, we easily got ff tickets on UAL to Sidney. We were leaving the ship in Auckland, which made it there partner NZ Airlines. NZ never released any UA ff travel from Auckland to LAX or anywhere in the US. I ended up cancelling my open jaw on UAL to Sidney because NZ wanted ridiculous prices for a one way ticket! In retrospect, some of our cruises booked UAL on ff miles round trip to Sidney and paid one way fares from Auckland to Sidney to connect. A smart move. We also learned that NZ later open some seats for ff travel from Auckland to Vancouver, BC., but never LAX or San Francisco. You may be luckier, traveling in April, if you have UAL miles.

We ended up on the longest current nonstop flight currently going: Qantus Airlines DFW-SID. Our return was AUK-SID-DFW. We had BNA to DFW legs on both legs. 17+ hours on a single flight, but no connections (to/from DFW) from SID. Should be a consideration for you. We paid the fare in Qantus P.E. Didn't have the miles (at that time) for BC. and Qantus never offered a ff fare for PE. It sold out within days of opening anyway! The BNA connections with the Qantus flights in and out of DFW were seemless both ways. You should really check this flight out of JAX instead of going to LAX.

pinotlover, UA now has a flight to and from Auckland out of SFO. So you can use UA miles going to NZ on UA. Agree, ANZ is a pain-they don't play well with other airlines.

We ended up on the longest current nonstop flight currently going: Qantus Airlines DFW-SID. Our return was AUK-SID-DFW.

Hell of a flight. Alakanuk, Alaska (AUK) to Palmeira, Cape Verde (SID) and ending in Dallas. And, to quote Globaliser, there is no "U" in Qantus.

:D

This may be too complicated of a question but here goes. We are going on a TP cruise in Oct '17 and live in Austin TX. I'm hoping to have "lots" of points by next year when I start looking at flights. I have the Chase Sapphire card and it has the partner airline with Air NZ. This will be my first attempt to use points to upgrade a flight. It will be a one way ticket from Sydney to LAX. We will use Southwest from LAX to AUS. Can anyone give my a very rough estimate on what an upgrade would cost in points. I'll pay for the economy ticket and then want to use the points for business. Just wanting to see if its possible and to get an idea of the number of points I would probably need for the 2 tickets.

Teanne

This may be too complicated of a question but here goes. We are going on a TP cruise in Oct '17 and live in Austin TX. I'm hoping to have "lots" of points by next year when I start looking at flights. I have the Chase Sapphire card and it has the partner airline with Air NZ. This will be my first attempt to use points to upgrade a flight. It will be a one way ticket from Sydney to LAX. We will use Southwest from LAX to AUS. Can anyone give my a very rough estimate on what an upgrade would cost in points. I'll pay for the economy ticket and then want to use the points for business. Just wanting to see if its possible and to get an idea of the number of points I would probably need for the 2 tickets.

 

Teanne

It can quickly become very complicated, so sorry. But first things first.

1. Upgrading to business class on ANY flights between Australia and the US is VERY difficult, particularly during the southern summer. Qantas (Australia) and Air New Zealand, which dominate that market, are extremely stingy with business class awards and upgrades; there are too many people willing to pay the full price. Regardless, the chances of getting an upgrade confirmed when you book are slim; you might well be placed on a waiting list and not know if you're successful until shortly before your trip, if at all.

2. One-way tickets bought on Qantas or Air NZ, even in economy, tend to be very pricey. If you're on a Qantas or Air NZ plane that offers premium economy, then you can only upgrade one cabin, i.e. from coach to premium, or from premium to business. You might find that the "actual" cost is very high.

3. I'm pretty sure Air NZ isn't a Chase transfer partner, but United is, and you can redeem United miles for Air NZ-operated flights. I'm not positive on this with UA and NZ, but in most cases using one airline's miles (in this case United) to upgrade on another airline's plane requires that the underlying ticket (coach or premium economy) be in a very expensive "fare bucket" in the first place, making the whole exercise quite pointless.

4. Air NZ uses a "bid" method for most upgrades - basically a blind auction where you say, "I'll bid $500 per seat to upgrade on my flight," not knowing if you're in the ballpark or not.

So what would I do? Frankly, I'd shoot for a straight award in business class using miles. It's usually a better deal than coach + upgrade. For example, on United, a one-way coach award from Sydney to anywhere in the lower 48 states (so no separate Southwest ticket needed from LAX) is 40,000 miles. A one-way business class award is 70,000 miles.

To upgrade a coach seat to business class requires 30,000 miles PLUS a "co-pay" ranging from $350 to $600 depending on the fare "bucket" the underlying ticket is in. (Obviously the cheaper the ticket the higher the co-pay.)

When you add the cost of the coach ticket and the copay, plus some value for the miles, it usually is a lousy deal compared to just getting a business award in the first place, and sometimes can be pretty close to the price of just buying a ticket outright.

I would look at all the transfer partners Chase offers and see who charge how many miles for Australia - US award tickets. Remember transferring Chase points to one airline allows you to travel on any of that airline's partners, so transferring to United means you can fly on United or Air New Zealand or Air Canada or many others.

But also use ITA once flights appear for your dates to see what cash tickets cost. You might be surprised.

Air New Zealand, while allied with United, doesn't give upgrades or even award business seats out to non-ANZ airlines very often.

I agree a straight business class award ticket would be the best choice. You can get them on United for sure. On ANZ is an entirely different challenge.

Both QF and NZ are known to be stingy with awards. Let me toss in another option for your consideration. One of the transfer partners from Chase Ultimate Rewards is Korean. They fly from DFW and IAH to Seoul, so you would not need to fly to LAX (assume you wouldn't mind the drive on either 35 or 10). From Seoul, it's a single flight into AKL. IIRC, KE has both business and first available and at some reasonable award rates for both.

I've been quite happy with the flights I've had on KE. Some of the inflight seating is a bit old, but they also have some nice hard product on some of their aircraft. Service is good and the airport at Seoul is world class. Plus, if you have a long connection (haven't checked on the actual flight times as they may change) KE and the airport provide free tours into Seoul or the neighboring area.

You can get more info about the KE Skypass program through this posting from Gary Leff: LINK HERE

Another use of KE miles is to use them for flights on China Eastern or China Southern, both of which fly from AKL to LAX (via their China hubs).

Other thoughts include transferring points to Air France, which then can book on KE, MU or CZ, or transfer to Singapore, as they make more inventory open for their own FF program than they do for their partners.

Thanks for the answers to my questions about upgrading with points on NZ. Will have to check out the Korea airlines too but we are going to be pushing it for time since the cruise is 3 weeks long and we will need to get home as quickly as possible at the end of the cruise due to hubby's work. I'm thinking that just trying to get as many points as possible for about the next 6 months and then just "buy" the business class on United using points. This is a whole new adventure for me using these points. Thank you for your input.

Teanne

Thanks for the answers to my questions about upgrading with points on NZ. Will have to check out the Korea airlines too but we are going to be pushing it for time since the cruise is 3 weeks long and we will need to get home as quickly as possible at the end of the cruise due to hubby's work. I'm thinking that just trying to get as many points as possible for about the next 6 months and then just "buy" the business class on United using points. This is a whole new adventure for me using these points. Thank you for your input.

Teanne

You can also buy points straight from United. They're usually around 2.5c - 3c per mile, but there are occasional "sales." You'd need 140K points for two business class seats, which is going to put that credit card through the mill. ;)

I don't know what your price tolerance is, but a quick check on ITA revealed that a one-way business class trip from Sydney to LAX on Air New Zealand in September (October isn't yet listed) is around US$2400. On thwe other hand, Air Fiji (Sydney to LAX via Nadi) offers one way in business class for $1500, using their new Airbus A300s with angle-flat (not fully flat) beds. Here's a trip report - http://onemileatatime.boardingarea.com/2016/08/28/fiji-a330-business-class-review/

I'm thinking that just trying to get as many points as possible for about the next 6 months and then just "buy" the business class on United using points.

If it's what I think you're saying, that's a lousy way to use the points. You would only get a value of about a penny each. Better to get a cash-back rebate card that pays 1.5 or 2 percent.

Airlines are pushing the "buy with points" because they get to redeem the miles for a discounted rate. How about this hypothetical example. You have 100,000 miles and can use them at the rate of a penny apiece. That's a value of $1000. OTOH, you can redeem those for an international business class round-trip ticket, which would have a value of far more than $1000. Which redemption is better for the airline? Which is better for you?

Remember - all of these points/miles are merely an alternative currency. We hear so many people talking about how to get the best exchange rate when they want to cash in dollar for, say Euros, but they don't think the same way when it comes to points. Evaluate which method gets you the most bang for the buck - in the old days, upgrades were often the best use. Then rules forced higher priced base tickets and added co-pays along with the miles. Now, airlines try to get you to use the miles at a discounted redemption - which is in their interest, not yours.

Think things through. The most obvious and simple isn't always the most beneficial.