Anita Latte

8 hours ago, SuiteTraveler said:

"Almost unbelievable."  Exactly.  What needs to be exposed here is when did they get vaccinated, which vaccine...

What I think would be most helpful would be to mark the strain of virus. I wonder if they were infected with the Delta variant that is causing surges in cases in areas of the UK, or some other variant. 

10 hours ago, ldubs said:

It is almost unbelievable.     

I disagree. There are reports of how the immune response to the vaccines differs based on gender, age, weight, medications, etc. The lack of immune response is especially notable with particular immune system suppression drugs such that people with organ transplants take etc, but those people should be aware of that. However, other factors, especially gender, age, and weight aren’t widely talked about in specific. A study of the effectiveness of the Pfizer vaccine in obese people showed that the antibody levels were less than normal weight individuals but as the Cleveland Clinic FAQ pages say, “should be” enough to provide protection. I had read somewhere about studying using larger first and second doses and also studying a third normal sized dose to see about increased immune response. Just one example, and I don’t know the particulars of the two individuals, but I don’t find it unbelievable at all.

Also...isn’t the vaccine supposed to help with symptomatic COVID? There are still questions regarding what viral load the vaccinated carry. So an asymptomatic case of COVID in the vaccinated would still mean that the vaccine was working as it should. Just like the baseball coaches.

@Lois R Sorry to hear you are having more health issues come up. I hope it is all resolved quickly and easily. With regards to your hip pain, have you tried sleeping with a pillow between your knees/legs? Look it up...sometimes that can really help. It can take a bit of experimentation to find the right size and firmness...we generally start with a couch throw pillow and go from there...just to help get through the month...

5 minutes ago, wowzz said:

At present, in the UK, masks are required to be worn by all adults, in indoor situations,  unless you are seated at a table and are eating or drinking.  

Thus is obviously a sensible requirement,  as all adults in the UK will not receive their first vaccine until the end of July  (currently 30 and 31 year olds are being vaccinated), plus of course the highly transmissible Indian variant has taken hold in a number of locations, so even more important to  be prudent. 

The USA eligibility is 12 and older years of age, so I guess we’ve decided masks are optional for fully vaccinated. We flew through the eligibility I think, because of lack of demand and the effort to not waste doses since the shelf life of opened vaccines is relatively short. I think Pfizer has 6 hours once the main vaccine vial is opened? And there’s over 1000 doses in the large quantity vials? Moderna has fewer doses in the big vial (under 1000)...and still a short shelf life but not sure if it is quite as short as 6 hours? Anyway, the effort over here is focused on incentives to get vaccinated because the demand has seriously dropped off. Our mass vaccination sites are closing and states are refusing their full allotment of vaccines because of the lack of demand. The latest mask “rules” from the CDC are seen by some as another incentive for the unvaccinated to get vaccinated. Wearing a mask now is bit like wearing a scarlet letter...or, it could be if people want to look at others with judgment and condemnation. There’s fear that instead of being peer pressured into getting vaccinated, the unvaccinated will just stop wearing masks...it’s all a bit of a mess really.

6 hours ago, wowzz said:

That was not my point. Everyone, vaccinated or not, shouid continue to wear a mask, as it is still possible to transmit Covid,  even after vaccination (although research shows that the the risk drops considerably after vaccination)

My comment was aimed at those people who do not wear a mask at all,  regardless of their vaccination status - they are the ones showing no respect for their fellow human beings. 

Ok. Perhaps the UK and the USA have different policies at this time? Our latest official advice has stated that if you are fully vaccinated, then you don’t have to wear a mask any longer, with few, but some, exceptions. States and stores are choosing to follow the advice or not, so as a policy, it hasn’t been fully embraced immediately throughout the US. Some states have announced future effective dates, some national chains have implemented the new mask free rule where local regulations allow, some haven’t, etc. Regardless, not all individuals who have been vaccinated are ready to embrace maskless life even if they “legally” can, which is what prompted my response. If the UK is still under a full time mask mandate, then my comment doesn’t really apply, but this explanation is why I commented.

2 hours ago, wowzz said:

The good thing about the current situation regarding mask wearing, is that it makes it easy to spot those around us who have an over abundance of self importance, compared to those who look out for their fellow humans.

I would caution your automatic judgement that assumes that all those vaccinated are comfortable with not wearing masks. There are all kinds of special interest stories regarding various reasons vaccinated individuals are continuing to wear masks, not all are COVID related fears. Wearing or

not wearing a mask is not an accurate indicator of vaccine status.

5 hours ago, t&atravel said:

Hence the argument for vaccination.  There is not enough data as yet to determine if the antibodies from past infection will remain at a level that will protect you in the future or for new strains of the virus.  Getting vaccinated with possible annual boosters is the only way to keep it at bay “at this time”.  As more studies are completed and more time has past we may be able to make the statement that we can never get it again or as badly once we’ve had it.  In the meantime the more people who are vaccinated the better.  

This is why the study of the B cells is so important. Your body’s B cells are the library your body keeps for the blue prints of the viruses that your body has encountered. Our bodies are very efficient machines always striving for more efficiency in everything it does, which explains why you may have to change up your exercise routine to continue to make headway toward the original goal that motivated you to start exercising in the first place. Hence the discussions for how to get past a weight loss plateau whenever you are seeking to lose a great percentage of your body weight. You may have so much to lose and your body’s own ability to improve efficiency (defined by doing the same work with decreasing or streamlined  effort) may mean that you have to pursue multiple different strategies as you continue to lose weight. 
 

So bringing it back to antibodies in the blood. Your body increases or reduces the number of antibodies that patrol the blood stream if you will because the perceived threat is more or less eminent. Regardless, your body keeps the blue print on how to make more antibodies which are the B cells stored in the body’s lymph. Body immune health will determine how well the body fights repeated infection or attempt to infect, exposure I guess. If the antibodies in the blood stream are good enough, great. If they aren’t, then the body can manufacture more. The question is how few antibodies in the blood can most tolerate and still fight future infection. How often do you need to boost that? Trigger the body to make more?

Booster shots to vaccines are definitely a way. But how often do you need them? That’s a question that this research seeks to answer. In pursuit of that answer, they also have to answer how adaptive are the body’s antibodies to variations in the virus? And, how adaptive are the body’s B cells to modify blue prints to make antibodies that are capable of fighting infection when exposed to a virus variant.

And they’re finding that regardless of whether or not the current level of immune response was triggered by vaccine or natural infection, there’s is actually an adaptability inherent in the body’s B cells if not antibodies. B cells change and evolve similarly to how the virus itself does. How good are B cells at anticipating and responding to the way the virus actually evolves and changes and varies? Figuring out the particulars in the way the immune system works is the job of scientists studying the questions, the answers can have a great impact on recommendations for boosters and vaccines in general. For the doctors of the world, they are making recommendations based on their interpretation of current knowledge. The thing is, these doctor recommendations are fluid. They are based on changing knowledge as more studies find more answers. It is called a medical practice. It’s what they do, practice doing different things in response to changing data to see what results in the best outcomes. And these best practices could end up being different for different people because not everyone has the same body chemistry. For now, I would imagine that doctors are erring on what they think is the side of caution, but that doesn’t mean that other actions are necessarily wrong. Time will tell. 

16 minutes ago, t&atravel said:

I believe you are incorrect in the statement that “antibodies go away in the natural course”.  There are several tests for the different antibodies VGg VGm VGa etc. I had a blood test just last week that showed antibodies for a past infection of EBV (mono) that I probably had as a teen (I’m 66).  My daughter while trying to conceive at age 35 was tested to see if she still had antibodies for measles mumps and rubella that she was vaccinated for as a baby (she did).  If your antibodies have “gone away”  with a blood test for antibodies that does not show them then you are no longer protected.  We don’t  know yet if the covid antibodies will last as we do not have enough data, but it is incorrect to say that you can’t prove “natural immunity” with a blood test.

I’ve read that antibody levels reach a peak following infection or vaccination and then diminish. I’ve read that tests of survivors of the Spanish Flu still have detectable antibodies. I didn’t mean to imply that the entire population of antibodies go away entirely, but the studies are saying that their levels are such that subsequent infection can become symptomatic but depending on the immune response may not become severe or last for very long. Good clarification.

37 minutes ago, navybankerteacher said:

At this point I doubt the utility of further discussion with folks who share your thought patterns, so please do not be offended if I ignore future posts.

Dude, I don’t really care what you do. For the benefit of others that are actually interested in reading about research...the discuss of enduring natural immunity is a hot topic...here’s a start for those people...

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/search/research-news/12560/?utm_source=gquery&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=gquery-home

Notice the .gov address and the NIH...this is not some crack pot fringe propaganda that I’m sharing links to

23 minutes ago, ilikeanswers said:

 

As someone who has spent a lot of time with degenerative diseases I would have to disagree our bodies our wonderfully made. All it takes is one wrong gene to switch on, one hormone to go a tiny bit below or above a threshold, one signal pathway to shut down and our bodies fall into a cycle of self destruction. One glass of wine is enough to compromise your immune system to let whose knows what in. Our bodies live on the knife edge of collapse. I know there is lot of emphasis these days on lifestyle and yes it is important but only by 50%. The rest is a lottery of genetics and modern medicine is really the best cheat we have against it. 

I’m very sorry for your struggle. And I sincerely apologize if my comment seems flippant. I was indirectly referencing the scripture. And partly thinking of a person close to me that had had polio as an infant and what he has been able to accomplish physically. I don’t disagree about genes and how impactful they can be as I have close friends who had a child born with rare conditions and so they only lived for a relatively short time. There’s always two sides to a story and comments can be cutting when there is no intention for that. I’ve been on the receiving end of that and empathize...I’m sorry for being on the dishing out end.

@hallux No idea who you are directing your question to after pages of discussion. It’s definitely problematic to prove natural immunity. Antibodies go away in the natural course of events as they aren’t needed without active infection but the enduring immunity comes from the B and T cells. I’m not clear on how to test or sample B and T cells but I think it is more complicated than a simple blood test since the B cells at least are stored in the lymph. It’s fascinating to study because the knowledge could affect the need for future boosters as well as the need to vaccinate survivors. For survivors in poorer countries that have fewer choices in vaccines because of logistics...this knowledge could be invaluable especially if vaccines available aren’t quite as effective as the mRNA vaccines. I think the China produced vaccine has been especially problematic as of the 5 most vaccinated countries in world, only Israel is having a lower case load because they were using the Pfizer vaccine IIRC, the others are having surges. I only recall Chile as one example. But anyway, definitely a head scratcher. Nothing about this situation is cut and dried...and there really needs to be a global perspective to find a solution...as evidenced by the recently started thread regarding what is “an acceptable vaccine”.

7 hours ago, Zach1213 said:

We use this one for any travel where we'll do day-hikes or excursions, and love it - https://www.amazon.com/Outlander-Packable-Lightweight-Backpack-Daypack/dp/B01LWOD1ZR?ots=1&tag=travandleis07-20&linkCode=w50&th=1 . Packs away quite small and light, you barely even notice it when it's not being used. 

We have 2 of the smaller versions from the same brand. Got them for Alaska in 2018 and have used them for all sorts of things at home and traveling. Well made. They still look new. Very comfortable to wear. Solid purchase, especially at that price point.

For those that are interested in reading about studies happening, the following article reports on various research regarding our body’s ability for adaptive immunity to virus variants in both populations, COVID survivors and the vaccinated. Very good explanation of how antibodies, B cells and T cells all work together. The title is Your Immune System Evolves to Fight Coronavirus Variants.

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/your-immune-system-evolves-to-fight-coronavirus-variants/

The article makes many references to studies and papers so anyone who really feels like diving deep could also spend some time following through to those. I think there is a link in the article to the NIH website about enduring immunity that I shared earlier in this thread. 

I find our bodies to be wonderfully made...our bodies are so capable of living, especially if we support their functioning with necessary chemicals (food), restful sleep, and movement (physical activity that may or may not be “exercise”)...doesn’t hurt to nourish our spirits and souls too. I wish our pandemic response had included a wake up call regarding healthy lifestyles and how we can all enhance our immune response through our daily choices. There is nothing on that topic in this linked article though.
 

Happy reading!

Gorgeous Melody. I haven’t been back to CO in years and years. One of my SILs weddings...been a while since I’ve seen that sight IRL. So pretty.

I happened to drive into Port Canaveral earlier today...not sure if it was the Mariner or a sister ship in port. Didn’t have time for a photo but that was a welcome sight this morning.

When you lived here, we’re they doing Thunder at Cocoa Beach? The big boat race? That’s happening this weekend. The port was the area for some pits. All sorts of activity going on. The guy who did our sea trial with us is the primary organizer. That day the pacer boat was checking out the course. The racing boats are INSANE...they’re like bullets on the water all long and extremely streamlined. Idk if we’ll try to catch any of the race...there’s two places listed for two major turns. Depends on how today goes with DH and how he feels tomorrow. He’s having arthroscopic meniscus surgery today. Right now in fact...I’m the responsible adult but can’t be inside anywhere, waiting for the calls post op.

4 hours ago, Toofarfromthesea said:

No it is not terrible because despite all of those ameliorating actions people still die in cars.  A lot of them.  And yet we still allow driving and cars.  If we truly believed in a "if it saves just one life . . ." philosophy driving, as well as virtually all human activity would come to a grinding halt.  And lest you think I am being hyperbolic, the NJ governor just used the "if it saves just one life . . ." argument to justify not lifting lockdown restrictions.

I can't help it...

“It's a dangerous business, Frodo, going out your door." ― J.R.R. Tolkien, The Lord of the Rings

4 hours ago, navybankerteacher said:

Don’t you realize that what you are talking about when discussing “treatment” vs. “vaccine” is simply another sort of vaccine?   Referring to it as a “sterilizing treatment” does not make it not a “vaccine” — it is a pre-emptive preventative and not a “treatment” —- any more than oral polio vaccine (probably the most successful vaccine in history) was a “treatment”.

 

”Treatment” for a disease means handling it once it has been contracted, “vaccination” (when effective) means preventing it so no “treatment “ will be necessary.

No I don't, but I'm willing to listen. To me, taking a sterilizing treatment pill, (aka an anti-viral pill), at the first sign of infection is a treatment. Isn't there a pill for the flu that is similar? To me, that is treatment and I don't consider that falling into the vaccine category. From my perspective, the anti-viral, sterilizing treatment pill would work similar to an anti-biotic which is taken if you have a bacterial infection...to treat the bacterial infection. They are testing this treatment pill against Sars-Cov-2 in specific and coronaviruses in general...so...again, I don't see how this is a vaccine...but please explain further, because I don't get there from your post.

16 minutes ago, navybankerteacher said:

But not of getting trained and competent medical advice/treatment.

After death?

3 hours ago, 2wheelin said:

Thank you for being one of the few people on here to actually understand the research they do. And for being able to present your views on an intellectual level, contrary to those who have been condemning others by name calling if they disagree with their own superficial understanding. I read comments in hopes of learning things, not to see derogatory name calling. After 40 years in medical research, I understand how confusing the data can sometimes be and that open minds are best.

Thank you. I appreciate you taking the time to post. I do a lot of reading and research and I do strive to actually understand what I'm reading.

3 hours ago, ontheweb said:

Am I reading the article in your link correctly? I believe it says they are working on an oral sterilizing TREATMENT,  not a vaccine.

 

We can all agree that treatment and prevention are both important. But, one problem I see with the treatment as a way of stopping the spread is that people can be both asymptomatic and able to spread the virus. It seems to me this population would not be taking the treatment as they felt no symptoms.

Yes. TREATMENT, just like I said in my comment pointing to the press release. The current vaccines do not completely stop the spread of COVID and the PANDEMIC will not end until the actual spread of COVID is halted. A lot of chatter in the scientific community is talking about the current vaccines as being the "first generation" of COVID vaccines. I've read that they anticipate that everyone will have to be inoculated again in 2022, give or take. The idea is that prevention and treatment will work together to actually end the pandemic, with the treatment actually sterilizing whatever breakthrough cases occur. Since breakthrough cases WILL occur, because even in the vaccinated population, the virus is still present, I expressed the opinion that vaccinations will not end the pandemic...and maybe my intent would have read better to say that vaccines ALONE will not end the pandemic, but that is what I was trying to say. The pandemic will truly end when treatment such as the one Pfizer is developing, which actually stops the virus, is available.

2 hours ago, cruisemom42 said:

 

Sorry, perhaps I should have been clearer and more detailed in my response. I understand the point of your analogy, but it is an analogy that is more useful as an illustration of how non-scientific media (and people) jump to assumptions that are not supported by data. The point I was trying to emphasize is that science has already shown that the effectiveness of the vaccines is not a false correlation, so it should not even really be a matter of debate -- or hesitation.

 

Regarding sterilizing immunity, that is a rather nuanced concept. It's not so much a "black or white" proposition as a continuum. Almost all effective vaccines protect against infection to some extent. The COVID vaccine trials were not designed to evaluate this effect specifically, however, because the goal was to make them available quickly in order to prevent excess mortality. Complete lack of transmission is a difficult goalpost. However, the absence of positive proof does not necessarily imply the negative. 

 

Also, from a public health perspective, a vaccine does not have to be sterilizing to effect a worthwhile herd immunity. There is a good article in Scientific American, for example:  Vaccines Need Not Completely Stop COVID Transmission to Curb the Pandemic - Scientific American  (And I'll point out that more and more, the "real world" data points to the vaccines -- at least the mRNA ones -- as being (shall we say) further along the continuum toward "sterilizing" than was originally hypothesized.)

 

Finally, just a word regarding vaccination versus treatment. Treatment is wonderful, but no substitute for control. If you wait until people get sick and treat them, you have:

• increased morbidity:  e.g., people have to feel sick before they seek treatment, so likely they've already lost work days or been unable to work, etc.
• increased transmission of disease to others:  diseases are often infectious to others well before they reach the level of making you feel ill enough to seek treatment.
• increased risk of other sequelae of infection:  we don't yet know enough about COVID to assume that seeking treatment once infected is enough to ward off the effects that are being experienced by COVID "long-haulers", for example.
• increased cost:  vaccinating people results in a lower overall "health cost" than treating them, in general. Many of the proposed therapies are quite expensive (MAbs and the like). Who is going to foot the bill for this and how do we ensure that people with limited access to healthcare are able to get treated?

Again, I think that my opinion would have been better expressed if I had included the word ONLY in taking about vaccines ending the pandemic. Vaccines, the current vaccines anyway, will not end the pandemic. The vaccines were designed to prevent severe illness NOT to stop infection. As you say, and as I said earlier, the virus load that the vaccinated carry has not been studied and is unknown. When people are talking about immunity to COVID because of the vaccine, I think they are not understanding that the vaccine is really against COVID the disease which is caused by infection with the Sars-COV-2 virus. The virus and the disease are two separate things...like HIV and AIDS. So the vaccine is against COVID, but not necessarily against Sars-COV-2. 

The Yankees coaching staff is a perfect example of how the virus is still spreading among the vaccinated. The J&J has a lower efficacy in general than the Pfizer and Moderna vaccines, (though I think it is higher against hospitalizations and deaths...keep in mind that efficacy can be expressed against hospitalizations and death, against severe COVID, and against mild COVID). Only 1 of 8 that tested positive had any symptoms at all, and these went away. This means that the J&J vaccine worked exactly as it was intended to work. It stopped the vaccinated from getting severe COVID, having to be hospitalized, or even dying. Thumbs up.

But again...this points to the idea that vaccines alone will not STOP the pandemic. The virus will STILL be out there, even if the entire world is vaccinated.

As a side note...has everyone read the information on the potential link between poor dental health and severe COVID? In seeking to answer the question of WHY some are struck worse with COVID, they've studied dental health and specifically periodontal pockets. Viral load in saliva is a fairly good indicator of severity of COVID. The thinking is that the virus is getting fast tracked into the blood stream through periodontal pockets and thus this is how COVID is affecting the lungs and hearts of some worse than others. Amazingly enough, in addition to improved dental health in general, mouthwash is said to be sufficient to kill the virus itself to prevent the replication further into the body. It's the same mechanism that links dental health and cardiac health.

1 minute ago, Joebucks said:

 

While I briefly skimmed over the info, I was reading that the J&J 66% is not what it seems. From what I understand, each vaccine was comparing different data. The J&J was testing with all variants, while the others, were not. 

Yes, the J&J vaccine trials took place in the US, in Brazil, and in India...IIRC. You can readily find the three different efficacies for the different trial locations online which have been combined to create the singular efficacy reported. The most interesting stat with the J&J vaccine was that there was not a single hospitalization or death in their trials...so they state it is 100% effective against death and hospitalization due to COVID.

10 hours ago, navybankerteacher said:

When applied across the board vaccine is pretty inexpensive -- while treatment --- which at this time might involve anything from one day to several months hospitalization --- is very expensive -- and to date has not seen anything near the success rate that prevention has. 

The sterilizing pill treatment currently under development that could be available by the end of the year is talked about here:

https://www.pfizer.com/news/press-release/press-release-detail/pfizer-initiates-phase-1-study-novel-oral-antiviral

Without a sterilizing vaccine, COVID continues to circulate...even among the vaccinated. It is why I said that the pandemic will not end even if everyone is vaccinated, but that this sterilizing treatment would actually mean the end of the pandemic.

8 hours ago, cruisemom42 said:

No vaccine is 100% effective, not even the smallpox vaccine -- which has very similar efficacy to the mRNA COVID vaccines.  Yet it is the success of this vaccine, not any therapy, that led to the eradication of this disease worldwide by the 1980s.

First of all...it would appear that you have never heard the whole reading causes hemorrhoids in any class...this is a classic example given to show how seemingly logical conclusions really aren't...maybe it was just my teacher...IDK. I wasn't serious...LOL.

The smallpox vaccine was a sterilizing vaccine. The antibody response in the system completely irradiated the virus to prevent transmission of the virus. The current COVID vaccines are not sterilizing vaccines. Their intent was to prevent severe cases of COVID, especially hospitalizations, and deaths due to COVID...to prevent symptomatic COVID or reduce COVID cases to flu-like symptoms. The vaccinated continue to be COVID carriers. Questions following COVID vaccinations include what is the viral load that vaccinated continue to carry and, more importantly, what viral load threshold is needed for transmission, or rather below which line will transmission be halted. This is a contributing factor to why the reasoning used to be that the vaccinated should continue to wear masks...because of these unknowns. 

@mayleeman Just to say...you come across as very kind. I assume that I am vaccinated with the normal school requirements. I have a vague memory of needing a booster of something...maybe tetanus? before going to college. I was a child when I was vaccinated, so of course I didn't research that. You do bring up some things I will think about. I know I have an extreme distrust of the medical field...everyone who knows me knows this. I don't know the origin...but it is extreme...and as such, I have made some unusual decisions to avoid certain medical interventions. Case in point, I had what was called a missed miscarriage and rather than be subjected to a D&C, I went home to deal with situation. I had this conversation on a different thread regarding my lack of participation in traditional medical care...IDK if people seriously trust their doctors? Or if they just get over it because they believe in the positiveness of the actions even if they don't actually trust their doctors individually? I. Just. Don't.

I can be stubborn about certain things but I am a lifelong learner...even though some... @DirtyDawg would disbelieve that statement. My thoughts may not be everyone's thoughts...but that doesn't discount whether or not I'm thinking...especially if you just don't like my thoughts. But that goes back to the judgment and condemnation that I referred to in my "diatribe".

As for what you said mayleeman about people being harsh towards me...that's only because I put myself out there. If you present a target, people will hit it. I don't think it's been exceedingly harsh. This is one of those topics of conversation...people feel passionately about it, however people think or feel about it.

1 hour ago, wowzz said:

5 months ago, 1000 people a day in the UK were dying of Covid. Thanks to vaccinations, with an  extremely high take up level (over 95% of the over 65s)  the daily number is now between 5 and 20.  

The areas with continued high levels of CV19 are those with low uptake of vaccinations - the correlation is clear. If people don't get vaccinated,  the pandemic will continue.  

Sitting on the toilet for long periods of time is one of the greatest contributors to anal hemorrhoids. “Studies” 😂 show that many many people spend most of their reading time while on the toilet. The correlation is clear...reading is a leading contributor to anal hemorrhoids. Anyone who has taken a class requiring drawing conclusions from available data has heard this one. There may be a correlation but let’s be clear, vaccines will not end the pandemic. Vaccines were never intended to end the pandemic...they were intended to mitigate deaths and severe covid cases but never stop covid cases.

Not a single covid vaccine is 100% effective. Not a single covid vaccine is a sterilizing vaccine. Covid will continue to spread even if the entire world is vaccinated. You know what might stop the pandemic? Effective treatment. The sterilizing treatment pill that may be offered by the end of the year. THAT may end the current pandemic.

1 hour ago, wowzz said:

There are so many falsehoods in your diatribe, that it is simply not worth pointing them all out. You have obviously made your mind up, decided that your viewpoint is correct, and the fact that your decision will help CV19 to continue to proliferate, and cause additional deaths, seems to have escaped your conscience.

You have recognized that however error filled my current thinking is, I have actually spent time researching and gathering what info I can to have an opinion. I hold a strongly rooted opinion and am not easily swayed...that time will be the biggest impact on my thinking. And of course I think my viewpoint is correct for myself or I wouldn’t be thinking it. 😉 I think I present and post as a discussion contributor and not someone that is combative, defensive, or offensive...but I understand not wanting to actually talk to me because you perceive that it would be a waste of your time. Fair enough.

Not sure what you think to accomplish with your contribution to the discussion. I’m not a hermit but you have no idea how isolated I am. My conscience is clear.

1 hour ago, ilikeanswers said:

 

Nothing is "lab sourced". The definition of source is where something originates from. Labs can distill, isolate, cultivate etc but they can't source. Nothing originates from a lab, things are brought into labs to be used. In the end everything comes from nature 😉. 

Fair enough. My word choice was poor for talking about a final product that nature alone is unlikely to produce. DH (a biochemical engineer) talks about such things all the time...everything is a chemical. Virtually everything is “natural” at the source and “natural” isn’t always desirable...things that happen in labs are often superior for a variety of reasons. I get you.

Laurie...I like that dress! I like the pink one that has that tie-dyed look. LOL...no surprise there. That sleeveless style is really nice. I like the wide shoulder strap area...I think that is more flattering that the narrow ones if you happen to be generously endowed LOL. I'm curious to see what would be IN my Target though too because I know what is in the stores isn't always available online.

It's odd to say but it feels like life is finally settling down into a somewhat manageable routine. Takes a while. Our to do list has finally gotten down to a more manageable level. We're finding that balance between maintenance of what we have and projects for changing what we have.

I changed my clothes 3 times yesterday!! LOL...I think I have been reluctant to do that in the past because of how much I love laundry...and I had some misguided thought that it would be better to wear as few clothes each day as possible and try to cut down on my laundry needs that way. But I've come to accept that kind of like going on a cruise...and having different activities that require different clothes and having to change clothes to do all the different things you want to do...yes, that is my life...I just need to embrace that and the laundry that goes with it LOL!!!

So I had my gardening outfit...my casual outfit...and my workout outfit...and then my evening lounging outfit.

My preferred casual outfit is a dress. Semi fitted is the best...some shape but maximum comfort. For real, I sometimes think of dresses as my "public nightie" because that's the comfort level that I like for when I am just casual. I'm definitely going to check out that dress...the length and the shoulders are convincing me that it would be a great foundation dress.

Laurie...my good friend back in GA finally stopped dying her hair. She looks great! She's blessed with blue eyes and the lightening of her hair really makes her eyes pop even more than trying to stay dark. It all depends on how your gray is coming in...good point Melody on thinking about products that would enhance the gray. It's one thing to actually get gray hair vs just having your hair dull out and faded color that isn't really gray.

My purple hair dye came out quickly. And it was a lot of bleeding purple dye on my pillowcase and in the shower, etc. It felt like a lot of effort for not much return. I think I'm over the whole purple hair...as much as I think it's super fun to have. I love the look of scarves in hair...and I've collected some over the years but I haven't really gotten into using them. I'm going to work on that. I have actually separated out my scarves into the cold weather drawer, the gardening/house project/can get "ruined" drawer, and casual clothes drawer. 

I know I'm going to regret writing this but I just can't stop thinking about what I would like to say and so...here I go...

I find it very disheartening to read all the judgements and condemnation that people have for anyone that thinks differently than themselves and how the automatic reason for that other person, whose thinking is so clearly wrong is so obviously an idiot, a candidate for a Darwin award, or some other negative. Because clearly, anyone who thinks differently than yourself is to be hated upon until you can bash them in the head enough to get them to change their personal beliefs and viewpoints to your own.

I do not participate in any social media. No FB. No birds. No instas. I seek out news from several different news sources, including international sources if I can access them and I will spend hours doing research...I love research. My degree is marketing and so I'm well aware of all the different ways that communications can be manipulated to make you think you have read one thing when you have really read something not quite what you think you did. I'm also aware of the reality of the phenomenon where people have a tendency to remember information but rather quickly forget the source...so when someone first reads or hears some tidbit, they may or may not immediately believe the information because they may or may not trust the source...but then, as time goes on, they forget where/how they heard something...and that filter that used to exist that assigned a trust factor to the source is gone...and now they are faced with information and need to decide all over again if they believe what they've heard.

I believe that all the men and women who are "running" the "pandemic response" are simply men and women...doing the best they can...hopefully they are educated enough on the topics that are pertinent to their assignment and hopefully they are clear and logical and maybe even touched by some divine inspiration as they go about their work... But I went to college and I know how people act in college and post college and in general...and quite frankly, I don't happen to have a lot of trust in the knowledge that people think they know...even having gone through extensive education, where they may or may not have actually learned, let alone remember everything they were exposed to. They are simply men and women. They will make mistakes. AND they will have successes. Time tells which is which.

I am not vaccinated. I am not an antivaxx person. But I am not one to jump quickly into any situation that will affect me for the rest of my life. There are many things in this world that you can "do over" but vaccinations...direct injection of lab sourced chemicals into your body...you can't undo that. And despite what people think about the longevity of the effectiveness of a vaccine, once those chemicals are inside you, whatever they do, it's quite possible that it cannot be undone. Only time will tell if what the vaccines do is truly 100% without negative consequence. 

The mRNA vaccines are a brand new vaccine technology. They have been in the works for years, I know...it just isn't every year that you have a need for a vaccine let alone conditions that are conducive to test them. I'm sure that however horrific the pandemic is, there are scientists and others that are as equally excited in their own way for such an event...finally, the thing that they have been preparing for has arrived. I am grateful that there are people out there that were/are willing to risk their very lives OR even more precarious, their fitness for life as they now have it, which could be irrevocably damaged, to participate in the early trials of the vaccines. 

I am very grateful for all the millions of people who are participating in what I consider to be Phase 4 trials, which is the vaccines going public. Now we really get to see what is happening with the vaccines...if only we could get any believable information about it. But sadly, believable information is in short supply...I don't really believe anyone is offering straight up truth without the taint of an agenda...and I don't know everyone's agenda...but I am positive that everyone has one.

My agenda in writing this is to give voice to anyone like me that is simply waiting to see what is happening in these Phase 4 trials. I have two things that are personally of concern to me and my body chemistry and how it might react to the vaccines. The first is a blood clotting issue. Since the day I was born...my birthmark is a group of broken blood vessels and blood clots on the inside of my knee. For most of my life it hasn't bothered me, but a while back it changed and so I revisited it and have MRIs done and all that and basically, there was no known reason for what I was experiencing. I could get it all "removed" which would have all sorts of fun consequences or I could learn to deal. So I deal...but the whole blood clotting scenario and the fact that it is not typical blood clotting, but a weird low platelet level blood clotting...well...that makes me nervous. I feel like I walk around with a weird blood clotting issue...so not feeling super confident in doing something that has the chance for a weird blood clotting issue. And yes, I buy Powerball/Megamillions tickets frequently so I absolutely believe that I could be that ONE in whatever. I had thought to myself that the J&J vaxx would be more comfortable for me..."old school"...but the blood clotting hits too close to home. I'm not willing to risk it.

And the second health concern is having a family history of autoimmune disorders. The recommendation for those with a history of autoimmunity is to get the vaccine because COVID is worse than the known side effects of the vaccine but to be aware that there isn't any real information on what the vaccine does to people with autoimmunity. So, roll the dice in favor of choosing to inject yourself right now for who knows what all will happen OR continue to live your life with precautions and risk the possibility that you will get COVID, which had a less than 2% death rate in the US when last I looked. 

I am well aware of long COVID. I am well aware of lasting affects from having COVID. I am well aware that death may be a blessing to some of the long term affects of COVID. But getting COVID and having severe COVID are not a sure thing...but taking the vaccine IS a sure thing...an immediate decision...and I am willing to continue to live my life as I have been while I wait.

I've been wearing masks since before they were recommended. The fact that masks exist at all was proof enough for me of the common sense of wearing them. I don't linger indoors. I do go indoors...but I'm intentional...I don't feel the need to run in and out...but I don't just look around like I might have in the past. At the beginning of the pandemic, I set myself up and have continued to set my life up in such a way that I can do everything that I want to do with common sense precautions and basically, that life is a good life for me. For the time being.

I have a deadline by which I will make a decision. My son studies in London. He is in his second year...and I will want to go to the UK for his graduation. I will share...my son will be coming home again to visit this summer (we brought him home last March until August when he went back) and he is eager to get the vaccines. In his words, "There's a pandemic? You've got a vaccine for that? Sign me up for that sh*t." He's a very healthy 20-year old.

And I have no problems with him getting the vaccine. It feels weird that he will get it before I do...but he actually needs to get it. It's not as much of a choice for him with his current life. It will be interesting to see how he does frankly because no one else in my blood line has gotten the vaccine. Everyone is waiting. My pushing 90-years Grandma is opting out. My parents are opting out. I have no siblings. My parents don't have blood related siblings. 

I don't fault anyone for wanting to get the vaccine. And I don't fault anyone for not wanting to get the vaccine. The best we can do in this life is to live it by a standard, a criteria for doing what you do, and trying our best to stay true to that standard. I am a believer. I could spout out scriptures referring to living life according to faith...how everyone should be following that personal belief path because it is straying from that path/belief/standard that is the true sin. People can change their own mind but bullying someone or pressuring someone isn't the way to do it. 

Flame away, I suppose...but I just really wanted to share my viewpoint. It is not based on conspiracy theories. It is not based on misinformation. It is based on me...the way I live my life. If you were to look at my life and the way that I do everything in it, you would see that my current choices are right in line with my standard of living. Vaccine hesitancy is not a new concept...it goes way back. Time is generally what works best to change people's actions.