Out of all the cut backs over the years, what is the one thing ...

The mass market lines have simply diluted the quality of their product in their effort to sell it to more people.

Not only have they degraded the quality of food, service and included entertainment, they have indirectly degraded the quality of the port visits. What one experienced at a port with perhaps 1,000 to 2,000 other passengers cannot be matched with 4,000 other passengers on your ship plus many thousands on other ships in the same port.

From now on the bulk of our travel is likely to be land stays (which offer better chances to experience what is there) and the occasional use of a ship for transportation - say a trans-Atlantic repositioning to return from a land trip in Europe -- or a Panama Canal cruise, as we are now considering, to get back to the East coast after attending a California wedding.

At most, we now anticipate perhaps one cruise per year - while we used to average two or three. I shall miss the time at sea - but the lines have not maintained the quality of the experience.

I apologize if someone has already mentioned this, as we've been on a 22 day Antarctica cruise, but does anyone know about any Princess policies HAL has implemented in the past 2 years or so that have adversely affected HAL's 5 star service?

Without going into to much detail, our room steward told us HAL room stewards (among others) lost the right to wear a 5 star emblem on their uniforms associated with a service award HAL had won 5 years straight until Crystal won it last year. He said one of the main reasons they lost the competition was because of some Princess policies HAL corporate decided to implement fleet wide which among other things added a significant amount of addition duties to the room stewards without reducing the number of rooms they had to clean daily.

The reason we found this reference to Princess fascinating was because we've also noticed a significant decrease in service, especially in the personal hygiene standards area, on the last 5 HAL cruises we've taken over the past year and a half. We've been on two Princess cruises and their hygiene standards were completely voluntary unless there was a norovirus outbreak which happened on one of those cruises.

On our last HAL cruise we just disembarked from yesterday, there were easily over a third of the passengers with serious cold/flu symptoms the last 2+ weeks of the cruise and HAL made no effort to physically direct passengers to either use the hand washing machines or hand sanitizers when entering a dining area. In addition if you wanted to sanitize your hands coming in and or out of the main theater after all the sick ones had touched every hand rail in there, you had to go all the way to the casino as there were no dispensers at any of the entrances. Not one. That's just wrong on any cruise ship with that many people going in and out of the theater.

The Internet and travelling with carry on onlyhas made travel so much easier for us.

We are travelling in SE Asia now. We know where we will staying for the next week, we know In general where we plan to go and how long to stay. Apart from that the only firm date is our flight home in mid March.

We would typically pick up a late booking cruise in these travels. Not so much anymore. The bloom is off the rose as it were.

Here is the President of HAL explaining how to get the most out of your vacation. Bring your "shoes".

 

Wow! What a travel expert: bring your basketball high tops and look for

a game. I suppose that might work in New York or Philadelphia if you

were reluctant to think about a museum or other cultural experience --

but lots of luck in Rome, Athens, Portimao, Philipsburg, Madiera, etc.,

etc., etc.

What a smug know-nothing! Sort of explains his approach to handling

a special operation: do it the way other people do it, join the herd, forget your competitive advantage... it goes on and on.

HALs changes have been minor in relation to their cuts. I realize that some may think that migrating to casual on gala evenings is an earth shattering event. It is minor in the whole scheme of things though one would not know it from the knashing of teeth and moaning about it from a small minority of cruisers.

 

Less MDR and housekeeping staff. Fewer musicians and less live entertainment. Fewer lecturers. Reduced quality of food, including optional venues. Reduced maintenance combined with an effort to wring out every revenue dime from ships on the auction block even if it means unhappy customers.

 

Sure, some may see these as changes. We see them as cutbacks. Just some of the reasons why HAl has not been a premium line for quite a while. It is why their cruises often sell at a discount to competitors on those itineraries with lots of competition. Another OP said it in a post above...HAL is no longer the reliable cruise line of old. It's a crap shoot now on a number of HAL's older ships. The cheerleaders simply don't want to accept it.

I agree with this. We were on the Veendam 49 day cruise oct-dec 2017. Stewarts having 24 rooms to clean vs 13 b4 cuts.

Nobody playing blackjack because of the odds they used. Mostly 3 card poker and Texas Hold tables were full. Walked around the Lido three times every night trying to find something good to eat. Mostly ate in Lido. Two and a half hours to eat in the dining room I couldn't handle it. Great salad table in Lido. Deserts in afternoon great. At night not so much.

The crew staff was great (stewarts, waiters, bar staff etc.) Lectures were ok. Shows for most part were hit and miss. A couple of good entertainers.

Had a few problems with broken pipes. We got flooded out and moved to another stateroom for rest of cruise. No big deal. Seem to be a common occurrence.

We used private tours for the most part.

I also agree the loyalty program sucks. I can't believe the number of people who think it is greatest thing going,

I have cruised on another HAL ship and it was great. Maybe small ships are not for me.

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HAL is my favorite cruise line although I too have experienced the unfortunate changes over the years and months. I still enjoy the spacious rooms and even the drawers under the bed. We always completely unpack all of our suitcases and find organized space to put all of our clothes and personal items. The bathrooms also have enough space to put all of our items and the showers are a respectable size without a lot of anxiety. I have experienced limited size rooms (and we usually book balconies, mini/ signature suites) on other cruise lines. The other cruise line with ample space is Carnival. I also enjoy having my stateroom ready when I board and not having to wait at the Lido deck with my carry-ons until 1:00 to 1:30 PM. These perks matter to us and are where we draw the line when choosing who to cruise with. Customer service on HAL is for the most part outstanding from our stateroom stewards to the dining room staff on the Lido and MDR. The food for the most part is very good.

 

Showtime entertainment from the dancers and singers is hit and miss but the Lincoln Center Stage group, BB King Band and others keep us coming back. In addition we enjoy the interesting ports of call. We really enjoy the Crows Nest and the Greenhouse Thermal Rooms too.

Something I forgot to mention. ..

Holland Ameruca has newspapers every morning for the passengers which is a big plus. Also Elemis bath gel, shampoo and lotions are standard and much enjoyed.

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I agree with this. We were on the Veendam 49 day cruise oct-dec 2017. Stewarts having 24 rooms to clean vs 13 b4 cuts.

Nobody playing blackjack because of the odds they used. Mostly 3 card poker and Texas Hold tables were full. Walked around the Lido three times every night trying to find something good to eat. Mostly ate in Lido. Two and a half hours to eat in the dining room I couldn't handle it. Great salad table in Lido. Deserts in afternoon great. At night not so much.

 

The crew staff was great (stewarts, waiters, bar staff etc.) Lectures were ok. Shows for most part were hit and miss. A couple of good entertainers.

 

Had a few problems with broken pipes. We got flooded out and moved to another stateroom for rest of cruise. No big deal. Seem to be a common occurrence.

 

We used private tours for the most part.

 

I also agree the loyalty program sucks. I can't believe the number of people who think it is greatest thing going,

 

I have cruised on another HAL ship and it was great. Maybe small ships are not for me.

 

 

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I agree with most of your comments. The Veendam is and has been the worst ship in the fleet for a long time. I won't sail it again. I know not everyone agrees with this, but even the crew calls it "Veendoom". The other small ships are very good. It's the Vista ships that I can't stand.

Wow! What a travel expert: bring your basketball high tops and look for

a game. I suppose that might work in New York or Philadelphia if you

were reluctant to think about a museum or other cultural experience --

but lots of luck in Rome, Athens, Portimao, Philipsburg, Madiera, etc.,

etc., etc.

 

What a smug know-nothing! Sort of explains his approach to handling

a special operation: do it the way other people do it, join the herd, forget your competitive advantage... it goes on and on.

I get it. You don't like the guy but I believe what he's advocating is interacting with local people. It doesn't have to be basketball :rolleyes: For me, that is just as meaningful as a cultural experience as visiting a museum.

I get it. You don't like the guy but I believe what he's advocating is interacting with local people. It doesn't have to be basketball :rolleyes: For me, that is just as meaningful as a cultural experience as visiting a museum.

That all sounds good if you arrive in good health. HAL used to care about keeping you well by making sure everyone sanitized their hands the first 48 hours of a cruise before going into any dining area. They would also post crew by hand sanitizers to make sure folks would use them when boarding the ship. Not anymore. In fact on the 22 day Zaandam cruise we were just on where over 1/3 of the passengers had cold/flu symptoms by the second week, there wasn't even a sanitizer dispenser at any of the main theater entrances let along someone making sure folks sanitized their hands. It's all well and good to interact with people ashore to get more in touch with the local culture. However, when you're dodging coughs at an open seating dining table or in the main theater or on a tour bus, it kind of takes the thrill of the moment away.

But, that's HAL's call and since it appears they have no desire to change with all the recent cut banks, I guess it's time after 10 sailings to move on, especially since their production shows are continuing to drift more into the "boring" column. As a comparison we were just on a 25 day Celebrity cruise in the Fall and all of the practices I just mentioned were enforced by the crew the entire cruise.

That all sounds good if you arrive in good health. HAL used to care about keeping you well by making sure everyone sanitized their hands the first 48 hours of a cruise before going into any dining area. They would also post crew by hand sanitizers to make sure folks would use them when boarding the ship. Not anymore. In fact on the 22 day Zaandam cruise we were just on where over 1/3 of the passengers had cold/flu symptoms by the second week, there wasn't even a sanitizer dispenser at any of the main theater entrances let along someone making sure folks sanitized their hands. It's all well and good to interact with people ashore to get more in touch with the local culture. However, when you're dodging coughs at an open seating dining table or in the main theater or on a tour bus, it kind of takes the thrill of the moment away.

 

But, that's HAL's call and since it appears they have no desire to change with all the recent cut banks, I guess it's time after 10 sailings to move on, especially since their production shows are continuing to drift more into the "boring" column. As a comparison we were just on a 25 day Celebrity cruise in the Fall and all of the practices I just mentioned were enforced by the crew the entire cruise.

I figure I'm just as likely to come across a sick person onboard as I am on shore. Probably even more likely on the ship! So I won't let that possibility change how I interact with people. I understand that older people or those with immune issues may have to take more precautions.

I agree with you after our latest cruises first on the Eurodam followed by RCL Oasis. The loyalty program on HAL is NOTHING compared to our comparable level on RCL. The food on RCL was better in the MDR and particularly the lunch in MDR which is suprisingly wonderful at their buffet served there in style. Gala evening menu on HAL was really bad the first night and just OK the second.

HAL has been going downhill for years after being bought by Carnival and our last cruise showed even more differences from previous years (3 star Mariners).

My last cruise review of the Eurodam concluded with the statement that it would likely be our last on HAL when compared with the distinctly superior benefits of Diamond status on RCL that we achieved with many fewer cruises than we have on HAL for 3 star status with measly benefits.

I agree with this. We were on the Veendam 49 day cruise oct-dec 2017. Stewarts having 24 rooms to clean vs 13 b4 cuts.

Nobody playing blackjack because of the odds they used. Mostly 3 card poker and Texas Hold tables were full. Walked around the Lido three times every night trying to find something good to eat. Mostly ate in Lido. Two and a half hours to eat in the dining room I couldn't handle it. Great salad table in Lido. Deserts in afternoon great. At night not so much.

 

The crew staff was great (stewarts, waiters, bar staff etc.) Lectures were ok. Shows for most part were hit and miss. A couple of good entertainers.

 

Had a few problems with broken pipes. We got flooded out and moved to another stateroom for rest of cruise. No big deal. Seem to be a common occurrence.

 

We used private tours for the most part.

 

I also agree the loyalty program sucks. I can't believe the number of people who think it is greatest thing going,

 

I have cruised on another HAL ship and it was great. Maybe small ships are not for me.

 

 

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HAL cheerleaders seem to think that the HAL reward program is a good one.

I have yet to speak with someone who cruises on multiple cruise lines agree with this.

From our perspective, the HAL program is at the bottom of the list. It does not preclude us from booking however we are realistic enough to judge it in terms of it's competitors.

The tip off for us a number of years ago when we discovered the HAL medals program. We were somewhat astounded that this would be viewed .as a reward for loyal custom. Our preference is for something a little more tangible and a little less geared to aspirational goals or egos.

Great post! I’d add bring back the Crow’s Nest to what it was in the early to mid 90’s.

Ditto. Great post!! Loved loved LOVED those poolside BBQ’s

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HAL cheerleaders seem to think that the HAL reward program is a good one.

 

I have yet to speak with someone who cruises on multiple cruise lines agree with this.

 

From our perspective, the HAL program is at the bottom of the list. It does not preclude us from booking however we are realistic enough to judge it in terms of it's competitors.

 

The tip off for us a number of years ago when we discovered the HAL medals program. We were somewhat astounded that this would be viewed .as a reward for loyal custom. Our preference is for something a little more tangible and a little less geared to aspirational goals or egos.

When we finished our 8th HAL cruise and made 4 star (200 points) that's where we believe we started to get worthwhile benefits namely free laundry and 50% off wine packages. But then again "unlimited laundry" for $7 per cabin per day has always been a great HAL perk no matter what level you are at! It always amazes us how many passengers don't even know about that deal. We didn't find out about the unlimited laundry option until we did an upsell to a Neptune suite a couple of years ago.

IMHO you don't really get good perks on Celebrity until you hit Elite (300 points). However, on Oceania you start taping into free perks when you reach Bronze on your 5th cruise leg, but hit the payload, free gratuities and $400 OBC, when you hit silver while you are sailing on your 10th cruise leg.

But in all cases it really comes down to how much you want to shell out for a cruise and with regards to HAL and Celebrity, it depends on the category of rooms you book as well. With both of those lines, you really start to rack up the points when you cruise in a suite class room.

HAL cheerleaders seem to think that the HAL reward program is a good one.

 

s.

I don't think anyone with multiple line experience thinks HAL's program is particularly good. Of course, anyone would appreciate any freebie.

The real point is, rewards programs are simply ways of cutting costs - the more important cutting costs is to an individual, the more important any rewards program will seem. But it really only a factor in figuring cost.

If someone prefers HAL to other lines, they will go to HAL. Generally, when facing two similar itineraries I will select by line, and not by cost. I have a hard time understanding wanting to choose anything on the basis of cost alone: be it cruse, car, wine, cut of beef, whatever.

 

If someone prefers HAL to other lines, they will go to HAL. Generally, when facing two similar itineraries I will select by line, and not by cost. I have a hard time understanding wanting to choose anything on the basis of cost alone: be it cruse, car, wine, cut of beef, whatever.

Airfare seems to be a commodity with most people wanting to pay the lowest price to get somewhere.

I guess many of you folks won't be sailing on Holland American.

I guess many of you folks won't be sailing on Holland American.

The short answer is yes unless HAL offers an itinerary that neither Celebrity nor Oceania offers.

The main reason is that usually on their longer cruises, HAL uses their smaller ships where 70+% of the cabins are either inside or OV. It seems from our view point the quality of food and evening production shows are of a lesser quality than that provided on their larger ships, such as the Koningdam, where there is a much larger ratio of veranda-style cabins of which we always book. In other words HAL has more money to spend on their passengers on their larger ships.

Airfare seems to be a commodity with most people wanting to pay the lowest price to get somewhere.

I think you are largely correct -so far. Only about 4% of seats are first class and perhaps 8% business class - meaning that close to 90% don't want to pay a big premium for comfort. But, lately it seems that another 25 % or so will pony up for "more room in coach" - or whatever the line migh call it.

Then, an increasing number of lines are charging something if you want to select your seat. Pretty soon they will have fine-tuned the discomfort factor to the point where a majority may very well be paying more than the absolute minimum.

I am not a cheer leader for HaL but we do like their ships. We usually cruise for +21 days and really like the large cabins. We like our space and the Signature Suites suit us. What other cruise line has similar size cabins to HAL at this price level? Mini Suites on Princess appear to be much smaller.

We cruise based on ship and value. Price is not such a good indicator of value when it comes to travel products.

We would not consider a cruise on any of HAL's older ships. As above, fewer verandah cabins. But the real reason is ship maintenance. We do not need hassles with our cabin nor are we willing to take a chance since there are other, better choices for us out there. Food, entertainment is a crapshoot on any line.

We do want to try K'dam though

You lucky dog.

Stewart was working on my cruise as well.

Isn't he great???

He certainly gets around the fleet.

Do you know his last name?

You realize, of course, that Stewart coincidentally just happens to be the overwhelmingly common first name given to newborns in the Philippines and Indonesia.