Who Wants an End to HAL Formal Nights Entirely?

[cruz chic]

I think a lot of what is said here is a form of propoganda -- people speak as if things are one way, because they are unhappy with how the line has become less formal, and hope that, by saying it is more formal, people -- especially those who have not sailed the line before -- will concede, bring along formal clothing, and then wear them throughout the evening, for fear of not doing so.

 

I think people on this board become fed up with people who think it is ok to wear anything on a formal night. Then they are surprised and upset that they can't get in the dining room because they are not dressed correctly. After all...they paid for their vacation:rolleyes:. Clearly...you've stated on many occasions that you do not want to dress up so I'm not surprsied to hear this comment coming from you.

[WhansaMi]

But you quoted Lisa's post about Vista class ships...and I thought the same thing.

 

Actually what was quoted was:

 

"Unfortunately my statement above solidifies for those that believe ***HAL is for the more mature cruiser*** but I totally disagree. Most Vista Class 7 day sailings have an average age of 40 something"

 

She mentioned the Vista class ships, but in the context of disagreeing with the statement that HAL (not specific ships on HAL, but HAL, in general) is for the more mature cruiser. I was pointing out that, IME, you can't make that statement about HAL ships.

[Madbullogna]

Incoming 0.02 - :eek:

 

 

As a first time cruiser, I was not sure what to expect. But I can say this.... I know about the history of formal nights, and found it interesting. On our formal nights I dressed in a tux and my mother wore nice dresses. We both went shopping prior to the cruise, (I had no tux, and she had no dressy items. We are both tshirt & jeans types of people).

 

We LOVED formal night. To me, it is part of the experience. I look forward to our next cruies where we will get more than two of them. I can only hope that the trend is to KEEP formal nights among the various lines. We loved it so much, we would likely rule out a cruise line simply based on the fact that they did not formal nights.

[cruz chic]

Actually what was quoted was:

 

"Unfortunately my statement above solidifies for those that believe ***HAL is for the more mature cruiser*** but I totally disagree. Most Vista Class 7 day sailings have an average age of 40 something"

 

She mentioned the Vista class ships, but in the context of disagreeing with the statement that HAL (not specific ships on HAL, but HAL, in general) is for the more mature cruiser. I was pointing out that, IME, you can't make that statement about HAL ships.

What:confused:. Sorry but that doesn't make any sense to me...she wasn't talking about other ships.....so quoting her for that doesn't make sense.

[cruz chic]

We LOVED formal night. To me, it is part of the experience. I look forward to our next cruies where we will get more than two of them. I can only hope that the trend is to KEEP formal nights among the various lines. We loved it so much, we would likely rule out a cruise line simply based on the fact that they did not formal nights.

I don't see cruise lines getting rid of formal nights any time soon regardless of what so people like to think. I remember reading on this board about 3 years ago posters predicting the demise of formal nights within a year of that time. 3 years later we still have them...and we still have people complaining about them.

[WhansaMi]

I think people on this board become fed up with people who think it is ok to wear anything on a formal night. Then they are surprised and upset that they can't get in the dining room because they are not dressed correctly. After all...they paid for their vacation:rolleyes:. Clearly...you've stated on many occasions that you do not want to dress up so I'm not surprsied to hear this comment coming from you.

 

Nonetheless, I believe what I have said is true. People on this board sometimes overstate the rules, in an attempt to make people abide by their interpretation of them, rather than what the rules actually say.

 

I also freely admitted in that post that I am not a fan of formal nights, and would gladly see them eliminated, although, as I have said before, I meet the guidelines of the line while in the MDR at dinner. I don't understand why you felt it necessary to state it, as if I didn't acknowledge it in the first place.

 

Mostly it just seems to me that you have a bee in your bonnet about me and my opinions (or maybe about my Birkenstocks)!

 

Like it or not, things change. I, and people like me, are the new customer base that HAL is reaching out to. I'm sorry that is not to everyone's liking, but... the world is different now. It seems to me that HAL is trying to compromise, and find a workable solution that will try to make the most business sense, and please the majority of people.

[WhansaMi]

What:confused:. Sorry but that doesn't make any sense to me...she wasn't talking about other ships.....so quoting her for that doesn't make sense.

 

Let me try again, then.

 

LaffnVegas (who I know not at all) seemed to suggest that she believed that HAL is not primarily for the older crowd anymore, by her statement

 

"those that believe HAL is for the more mature cruiser but I totally disagree",

 

and used, as an example, her recent experiences on the Vista ships.

 

I was pointing out that the HAL fleet consisted of more than just the Vista class ships, and that you cannot extrapolate from those experiences to the whole line.

 

Therefore, I said that I would see if that change in demographics is evident on other class ships (specifically, the Prinsendam) as well. It wasn't meant to be anything other than a follow-up to the idea that seniors are most prevalent on the line, as a whole, which is how she originally presented it.

[WhansaMi]

I don't see cruise lines getting rid of formal nights any time soon regardless of what so people like to think. I remember reading on this board about 3 years ago posters predicting the demise of formal nights within a year of that time. 3 years later we still have them...and we still have people complaining about them.

 

I agree with you. They will not get rid of formal nights. However, I think that, as there has already been a relaxing of the guidlelines about what consitutes formal nights, there will continue to be a trend in that direction, and I wouldn't be surprised if the idea that "formal night" reverted to "formal dinner", with there no longer being mentioned the idea that those not in formalwear should not be in public areas. We already see that is not at all enforced, and I think the next logical step is for them to make it explicit that the formal wear guidelines only apply to the meal in the MDR, not other areas of the ship.

[cruz chic]

Let me try again, then.

 

LaffnVegas (who I know not at all) seemed to suggest that she believed that HAL is not primarily for the older crowd anymore, by her statement

 

"those that believe HAL is for the more mature cruiser but I totally disagree",

 

and used, as an example, her recent experiences on the Vista ships.

 

I was pointing out that the HAL fleet consisted of more than just the Vista class ships, and that you cannot extrapolate from those experiences to the whole line.

 

Therefore, I said that I would see if that change in demographics is evident on other class ships (specifically, the Prinsendam) as well. It wasn't meant to be anything other than a follow-up to the idea that seniors are most prevalent on the line, as a whole, which is how she originally presented it.

Well if that was what you meant...you certainly did not make that clear in your first post...so I think that was why people were confused.

[Storylady]

I think it is time to end this thread. I just came back from a 51 day vacation (32 day cruise) and I can't believe people are still posting about ending Formal Nights. The majority of the people on the Westerdam were dressed for Formal Night. I saw very few people who didn't wear Formal/Semi-Formal Clothes. It maybe true that people who cruise in the Caribbean or Alaska don't dress for Formal night, but they certainly dress for Formal night on a TA and Med cruise.

[cruz chic]

Nonetheless, I believe what I have said is true. People on this board sometimes overstate the rules, in an attempt to make people abide by their interpretation of them, rather than what the rules actually say.

 

I also freely admitted in that post that I am not a fan of formal nights, and would gladly see them eliminated, although, as I have said before, I meet the guidelines of the line while in the MDR at dinner. I don't understand why you felt it necessary to state it, as if I didn't acknowledge it in the first place.

 

Mostly it just seems to me that you have a bee in your bonnet about me and my opinions (or maybe about my Birkenstocks)!

 

Like it or not, things change. I, and people like me, are the new customer base that HAL is reaching out to. I'm sorry that is not to everyone's liking, but... the world is different now. It seems to me that HAL is trying to compromise, and find a workable solution that will try to make the most business sense, and please the majority of people.

The bee that I have in my bonnet is when you say that people are dishing out propaganda. Also, that HAL has changed. Really...has it because it seems like the same thing that has been going on for years. It's your wishful thinking that it has changed. I'm not an old dinosaur that is not willing to change. In fact....I may be younger the you...who knows. My point is that I have respect for myself and others and I dress accordingly. I don't try to change or bend the rules to fit me.

[Gotta Go Cruisin]

My point is that I have respect for myself and others and I dress accordingly. I don't try to change or bend the rules to fit me.

 

Just a quick diversion, because I think we need one right about now.

Do you think about 240 years ago when the "Founding Fathers" were debating the idea of "Changing or Bending the Rules" that came from across the pond, they were disrespecting themselves by not "Dressing Accordingly" (Conforming). I guess what I'm getting to is this country was founded by folks who didn't conform and did not "Dress Accordingly", metaphorically speaking of course. I don't suspect this applies to the wearing of Formal Attire on a Cruise Ship, but it might explain why some are not wanting to be conformists. Maybe it's in their DNA. It seems that some of the greatest people in the history of the world were non-conformists. OK that was my little diversion, now back to your regularly scheduled program. ;) BTW, I don't think it has anything to do with respect.

[DizzyDallasDi]

Just a quick diversion, because I think we need one right about now.

Do you think about 240 years ago when the "Founding Fathers" were debating the idea of "Changing or Bending the Rules" that came from across the pond, they were disrespecting themselves by not "Dressing Accordingly" (Conforming). I guess what I'm getting to is this country was founded by folks who didn't conform and did not "Dress Accordingly", metaphorically speaking of course. I don't suspect this applies to the wearing of Formal Attire on a Cruise Ship, but it might explain why some are not wanting to be conformists. Maybe it's in their DNA. It seems that some of the greatest people in the history of the world were non-conformists. OK that was my little diversion, now back to your regularly scheduled program. ;) BTW, I don't think it has anything to do with respect.

 

Take cover and don riot gear as I foresee incoming fire. There are many here on the "I love formal nights" bandwagon who firmly believe that respect is a very big part of it, i.e., respect for your fellow passengers, respect for the cruise line's dress code, respect for yourself, etc.

 

Please don't mistake my post as a flame, I'm merely trying to run block for you. ;)

 

Unless their interest in participating further in this thread has waned, you could possibly have churned the waters. I've seen those posts and they can get testy and preachy about dressing to code in order to demonstrate your respect. We can only hope that a cease fire has been instituted or the rabble rowsers are worn out. :p

[Topsham]

Just a quick diversion, because I think we need one right about now.

Do you think about 240 years ago when the "Founding Fathers" were debating the idea of "Changing or Bending the Rules" that came from across the pond, they were disrespecting themselves by not "Dressing Accordingly" (Conforming). I guess what I'm getting to is this country was founded by folks who didn't conform and did not "Dress Accordingly", metaphorically speaking of course. I don't suspect this applies to the wearing of Formal Attire on a Cruise Ship, but it might explain why some are not wanting to be conformists. Maybe it's in their DNA. It seems that some of the greatest people in the history of the world were non-conformists. OK that was my little diversion, now back to your regularly scheduled program. ;) BTW, I don't think it has anything to do with respect.

 

 

This is rich! Just in case you have not looked outside your non-conformist window, the world is now full of politically correct 'big brother' governments and everything you do or say is so regulated and sanitized that 'bending the rules' does not even come into it!

[world~citizen]

Just a quick diversion, because I think we need one right about now.

Do you think about 240 years ago when the "Founding Fathers" were debating the idea of "Changing or Bending the Rules" that came from across the pond, they were disrespecting themselves by not "Dressing Accordingly" (Conforming). I guess what I'm getting to is this country was founded by folks who didn't conform and did not "Dress Accordingly", metaphorically speaking of course. I don't suspect this applies to the wearing of Formal Attire on a Cruise Ship, but it might explain why some are not wanting to be conformists. Maybe it's in their DNA. It seems that some of the greatest people in the history of the world were non-conformists. OK that was my little diversion, now back to your regularly scheduled program. ;) BTW, I don't think it has anything to do with respect.

 

Founding histories get folded into founding mythologies and then you sometimes have a hard time figuring out which way is up. I don't dispute your interpretation though.

 

As to the respect thing, in the spirit of the revolution: I disagree with what you say but defend to the death your right to say it.:)

 

Smooth sailing...

[BaltiGator]

I agree with you. They will not get rid of formal nights. However, I think that, as there has already been a relaxing of the guidelines about what constitutes formal nights, there will continue to be a trend in that direction, and I wouldn't be surprised if the idea that "formal night" reverted to "formal dinner", with there no longer being mentioned the idea that those not in formal wear should not be in public areas. We already see that is not at all enforced, and I think the next logical step is for them to make it explicit that the formal wear guidelines only apply to the meal in the MDR, not other areas of the ship.

 

It amazes me how rarely this point has been touched upon in the 1743 threads (so far) about formal nights. The unspoken truth is that this is already the case.

 

In the first place, how could the dress code possibly be enforced shipwide when you're allowed to dress down in the Lido? Until someone invents teleporting, you have to walk from your cabin through public spaces to get to the Lido. And unless you're very careful about the path you take, you may find yourself not only in hallways and elevators/stairwells but also *gasp* walking through a bar or lounge area or other public space. So by definition the dress code can't apply to, or be enforced in, ALL public spaces.

 

Now, you may say that by "public spaces" what you really mean is people SITTING DOWN in a bar or lounge area, or going to the theater or Explorations Cafe. I'll grant you that's exactly what HAL means. But unlike the MDR, where the staff may actually monitor the entrance and politely ask pax to follow the dress code, one never sees staff monitoring the entrances to other public spaces. Have you ever seen a bartender ask someone not to sit down at their bar on a formal night because they weren't dressed up? Or a staff member in Explorations ask someone not to sit down and surf the internet because they weren't dressed up? Nope. And you never will.

 

So let's face facts. Though HAL, like many other lines, requests (or suggests) that everyone obey the dress code in ALL public areas (except the Lido), the hard cold reality is that the dress code truly matters only in the MDR (and specialty restaurants). Shucks, even many pax who dress up for dinner go back to their cabins and change into something more casual before going back out for the evening. Although some, maybe many, of the people on these boards would prefer that pax didn't do that, I don't see a lot of criticism in the threads about how people are dressed in the hallways or lounges on formal nights. The vast majority of the complaints relate to how others are dressed in the dining room.

 

Personally, I'm glad for this arrangement. It allows me to respect the formal nights by not stepping foot in the MDR or specialty restaurants, while still enjoying all other parts of the ship. Yes, I'll even go to the theater dressed down on formal night. Not in a tee-shirt and shorts, mind you, but not in a tux or suit either.

 

Can't everyone live with this compromise?

[world~citizen]

...Can't everyone live with this compromise?

 

Probably not.:eek:

 

Your point is well taken.

 

Smooth sailing...

[WhansaMi]

Can't everyone live with this compromise?

 

<raises hand> I can! :-)

[WhansaMi]

The bee that I have in my bonnet is when you say that people are dishing out propaganda. Also, that HAL has changed. Really...has it because it seems like the same thing that has been going on for years. It's your wishful thinking that it has changed. I'm not an old dinosaur that is not willing to change. In fact....I may be younger the you...who knows. My point is that I have respect for myself and others and I dress accordingly. I don't try to change or bend the rules to fit me.

 

I've only sailed HAL within the last five years, so I have no first hand knowledge of whether or not things have changed, but according to the people on this board who have sailed HAL for years, things have changed over the last decades.

[WhansaMi]

Just a quick diversion, because I think we need one right about now.

Do you think about 240 years ago when the "Founding Fathers" were debating the idea of "Changing or Bending the Rules" that came from across the pond, they were disrespecting themselves by not "Dressing Accordingly" (Conforming). I guess what I'm getting to is this country was founded by folks who didn't conform and did not "Dress Accordingly", metaphorically speaking of course. I don't suspect this applies to the wearing of Formal Attire on a Cruise Ship, but it might explain why some are not wanting to be conformists. Maybe it's in their DNA. It seems that some of the greatest people in the history of the world were non-conformists. OK that was my little diversion, now back to your regularly scheduled program. ;) BTW, I don't think it has anything to do with respect.

 

I agree with ALMOST your whole post. :-)

 

The last line, however, I'd have to modify. I would say it *usually* doesn't have anything to do with respect. I do know a few people who dress to give a big middle finger to others (their parents, their bosses, etc.), but those have to do with personal feelings toward an individual. I don't see that happening on a ship, with a bunch of strangers, but I suppose it could happen.

 

Sadly, some see nonconformity itself to be a form of disrespect, and it is from that perspective that the statement is often made. Since I don't understand, or agree, with that perspective, I generally try to avoid arguments about it, because, I can't wrap my head around the argument itself enough to properly dispute it! To me, non-conformity is based in many things.... some positive, some negative, but mostly very far removed from the concept of "respect", as I understand it.

[Gotta Go Cruisin]

Take cover and don riot gear as I foresee incoming fire. There are many here on the "I love formal nights" bandwagon who firmly believe that respect is a very big part of it, i.e., respect for your fellow passengers, respect for the cruise line's dress code, respect for yourself, etc.

 

Please don't mistake my post as a flame, I'm merely trying to run block for you. ;)

 

Unless their interest in participating further in this thread has waned, you could possibly have churned the waters. I've seen those posts and they can get testy and preachy about dressing to code in order to demonstrate your respect. We can only hope that a cease fire has been instituted or the rabble rowsers are worn out. :p

 

Thanks Dizzy, I see your point. My intent was to present another perspective beyond what we are discussing relative to the Cruise World and like I said create a diversion. Not trying to churn the waters. :)

 

I agree with ALMOST your whole post. :-)

 

The last line, however, I'd have to modify. I would say it *usually* doesn't have anything to do with respect. I do know a few people who dress to give a big middle finger to others (their parents, their bosses, etc.), but those have to do with personal feelings toward an individual. I don't see that happening on a ship, with a bunch of strangers, but I suppose it could happen.

 

Sadly, some see nonconformity itself to be a form of disrespect, and it is from that perspective that the statement is often made. Since I don't understand, or agree, with that perspective, I generally try to avoid arguments about it, because, I can't wrap my head around the argument itself enough to properly dispute it! To me, non-conformity is based in many things.... some positive, some negative, but mostly very far removed from the concept of "respect", as I understand it.

 

Whansami,

In hindsight I would amend my respect statement, because as you say there are those who just "give a big middle finger" to others. I will just say then that, for me, it's not about being disrespectful and as I have said many times, I like seeing folks enjoy getting dressed up if thats what makes them happy because it does not harm me. It's just not something I enjoy. On the other hand I still marvel that my attire that falls just short of "Formal" could result in such angst for so many here on these boards. I wonder if that translates equally (outside of CC) to the passengers that sail HAL.

[JesterPlaying]

There might always be discussion about wearing formal wear all night long, but realistically formal night will never go away. It is too much of a revenue generator in itself. You all know about not being able to get around the ship because the passage ways are blocked with photographers. That is real money to the cruise line. For families it might be the only time they get their kids to dress up. Lots of kids hate family portraits, but this is an opportunity without all the whining.

 

And yes, the longer you stay in formal wear the greater the chances a roving photographer will get that shot that you will pay $8 for. So as long as there is money to be made formal night will live on.

 

Now we just need to lighten up on those folks that can't wait to get out their of their monkey suits. Much like the kids who start undressing as soon as the reach the car after church or a visit to the photography studio.

[WhansaMi]

 

Whansami,

In hindsight I would amend my respect statement, because as you say there are those who just "give a big middle finger" to others. I will just say then that, for me, it's not about being disrespectful and as I have said many times, I like seeing folks enjoy getting dressed up if thats what makes them happy because it does not harm me. It's just not something I enjoy. On the other hand I still marvel that my attire that falls just short of "Formal" could result in such angst for so many here on these boards. I wonder if that translates equally (outside of CC) to the passengers that sail HAL.

 

Oh, I know. My earlier statement about my Birkenstocks was a reference to a description of my outfit on my last cruise -- a very nice, floorlength jersey gown, silk scarf, and <gasp> Birkenstock-like shoes (I have back and foot problems, and these shoes are the only ones I could wear comfortably). You would have thought I'd said I'd worn my bikini in there! ;-)

[Copper10-8]

.............In the first place, how could the dress code possibly be enforced shipwide when you're allowed to dress down in the Lido? Until someone invents teleporting, you have to walk from your cabin through public spaces to get to the Lido. And unless you're very careful about the path you take, you may find yourself not only in hallways and elevators/stairwells but also *gasp* walking through a bar or lounge area or other public space. So by definition the dress code can't apply to, or be enforced in, ALL public spaces.

 

..................

 

Nailed it! ;)

[geocruiser]

Originally Posted by Jesterplaying

"You all know about not being able to get around the ship because the passage ways are blocked with photographers. That is real money to the cruise line.

 

"

I am not too sure about this. We were on Azamara this March. There are no formal nights on Azamara. The photographers were just a busy as ever and the PAX seem to be buying as much as ever. There was a line of PAX waiting to pay for picrures.

 

Maria