Who Wants an End to HAL Formal Nights Entirely?

[world~citizen]

I like to dress up a bit but I hate "formal nights". It's way too dressy just to go to 'dinner'. Granted if you do away with formal wear, people will go in shorts/t-shirts and whatnot. I love your elegant wear suggestion or just enforce a no jeans/t-shirt/flip flops policy.

 

Whatever most people wear to church on Sundays (for those who go to church) works with dining out.

 

Perhaps.

 

Unfortunately, there is no consensus with respect to what people should wear to church (for those, as you say, who go to church). :eek:

 

Smooth sailing...

[navybankerteacher]

No. I do not like going to dinner in an uncomfortable tux - but formal dining must be maintained! Its about STANDARDS! When you bring standards down, service goes down with them. Look at what has happened to the airlines. If you want to end up being treated like cattle start by doing away with the formal attire. I don't like it but it's a discomfort I am prepared to tolerate to keep cruising as a special vacation experience.

Tailskid

 

Seconded ---but what makes anyone think a tux is so "uncomfortable"? Granted, the shirt collar is closed (as with any shirt with a tie), but that's all. I frankly do not like wearing hats, but I do not call them uncomfortable when I discuss the macho types who think a backwards baseball cap is appropriate in any dining room. But then I suppose they go with the loose-fitting, armpit-showing muscle shirts.

 

If you want a sea-going version of McDonalds, sail NCL -- please do not urge that all lines should be dumbed down.

[Parrot57]

I refuse to dress formally and have never been denied entrance to the MDR. To each his own.

[LAFFNVEGAS]

If you want a sea-going version of McDonalds, sail NCL -- please do not urge that all lines should be dumbed down.

Will you people QUIT saying this!!!!!

How about Azamara Club, Oceania and Seabourne???? They do not have Formal Nights?

Have you ever sailed on NCL??????

If not why do you think that NCL is so bad and that they do not dress up. You really should not be commenting about something you have no first hand experience about.... People do dress up on NCL and actually it is in so many ways like HAL you would be shocked :eek: It is HAL and their attitude that is slipping not NCL. They call their Formal Night "Formal or Not" and those that do not dress up wear very nice Country Club Casual. In all honesty I saw more people nicely dressed every night on our last NCL cruise than I have seen on our last HAL cruise on the Westerdam.

NCL still has the Captain greeting everyone and shaking their hand, they still preserve many of the traditions that HAL use to do.

NCL Suite Life is so far above HAL it truly makes HAL look and feel like McDonalds..... so before you start accusing another cruise line of being McDonalds you need to have a little experience under your belt.

[RevNeal]

Does a tux have to be uncomfortable to be stylish, or are the folks on "what not to wear" just pulling our legs?:D

 

I find that my Tuxedo is one of my most comfortable suits that I own; it fits me very well. True, I have to wear a shirt with a closed collar and a bow tie, but even that shouldn't be choking-tight. I'm convinced that too many men think that Tuxedos are supposed to be uncomfortable because they've been poorly fitted in the past and, when they wear a jacket and a tie, they always wear shirts that are too small ... at least in the neck.

[RevNeal]

I love your elegant wear suggestion or just enforce a no jeans/t-shirt/flip flops policy.

 

Whatever most people wear to church on Sundays (for those who go to church) works with dining out.

 

I've got plenty of people who come to church in jeans, t-shirts, and/or flip flops. Shorts, too, though that's usually the youth. I'm happy to have them there ... there is no dress code in my congregation. There is one aboard ship, however.

[Gotta Go Cruisin]

I've got plenty of people who come to church in jeans, t-shirts, and/or flip flops. Shorts, too, though that's usually the youth. I'm happy to have them there ... there is no dress code in my congregation. There is one aboard ship, however.

 

I gotta think about that one for a minute...hmmm isn't that kind of interesting? I would have thought it would be the other way around. I'd rather impress the big guy with my attire than fellow shipmates. I guess I got my priorities all screwed up. ;)

[fann1sh]

I get what Lisa is saying. Good post.

 

But, I also get really irritated with people who come on this board to post something like: I cruised NCL, and loved the dress code, but hated _____. My friends tell me HAL is much better for _____. But, that formal dress thing is just a joke, right? Formal dress is stupid, and people who follow dress codes are fashion police/snobs/stupid, stupid, stupid. They won't refuse me a seat in the MDR if I wear _____, right? If they try to deny seating, I'm going to make a big scene. I paid for this vacation and have the right to wear what I want. HAL should be more like NCL.

 

O - kaaayyy...but you wanted to try HAL because.....?? Never mind.

 

Why are people obsessed about changing HAL, instead of booking a cruise line that already has what they want (as Lisa points out, there are lots of choices for no formal nights).

 

I suspect someone will reply the majority want HAL to stop formal nights, so HAL should yield to the majority.

 

However there was a poll a while ago that showed those entrenched against formal nights were a minority. As I recall, the numbers were something like under 30% really wanted to cancel formal nights, under 30% really wanted to keep formal nights, and 45% didn't care.

 

If you added cancel formal + didn't care, you got a majority.

 

If you added keep formal + didn't care, you got a majority.

[world~citizen]

I find that my Tuxedo is one of my most comfortable suits that I own; it fits me very well. True, I have to wear a shirt with a closed collar and a bow tie, but even that shouldn't be choking-tight. I'm convinced that too many men think that Tuxedos are supposed to be uncomfortable because they've been poorly fitted in the past and, when they wear a jacket and a tie, they always wear shirts that are too small ... at least in the neck.

 

That is exactly my experience. The difficulty is with the shirt and when properly fit is not at all uncomfortable even over long evenings.

 

Smooth sailing...:)

[sail7seas]

I gotta think about that one for a minute...hmmm isn't that kind of interesting? I would have thought it would be the other way around. I'd rather impress the big guy with my attire than fellow shipmates. I guess I got my priorities all screwed up. ;)

 

 

:) Maybe two really good points are being made both in your post and in Rev's.

 

I suspect what Greg is saying is he'd rather have people in church dressed in whatever than not have them come at all.

 

And I also suspect, 'the big guy' as you put it probably doesn't care what they're wearing either...... They are worshipping and that is what he cares.

 

And that bring us to dress in the MDR. It's becoming a whole lot less important as society changes and the stresses and concerns in the world become so severe.

 

Use courtesy, respect, manners and good sense and you probably will dress 'decently' and appropriately.

 

I also suspect you get it, too. :)

 

Good post. Thanks.

[Cruising-along]

I get what Lisa is saying. Good post.

 

But, I also get really irritated with people who come on this board to post something like: I cruised NCL, and loved the dress code, but hated _____. My friends tell me HAL is much better for _____. But, that formal dress thing is just a joke, right? Formal dress is stupid, and people who follow dress codes are fashion police/snobs/stupid, stupid, stupid. They won't refuse me a seat in the MDR if I wear _____, right? If they try to deny seating, I'm going to make a big scene. I paid for this vacation and have the right to wear what I want. HAL should be more like NCL.

 

O - kaaayyy...but you wanted to try HAL because.....?? Never mind.

 

Why are people obsessed about changing HAL, instead of booking a cruise line that already has what they want (as Lisa points out, there are lots of choices for no formal nights).

 

I suspect someone will reply the majority want HAL to stop formal nights, so HAL should yield to the majority.

 

However there was a poll a while ago that showed those entrenched against formal nights were a minority. As I recall, the numbers were something like under 30% really wanted to cancel formal nights, under 30% really wanted to keep formal nights, and 45% didn't care.

 

If you added cancel formal + didn't care, you got a majority.

 

If you added keep formal + didn't care, you got a majority.

 

I agree with most of what you say -- but you have to remember that poll was of CCrs only! I've talked to countless people who are thinking of taking a cruise, and they have NO idea about dress codes etc. So I try to let them know, those who care anyway. ;) You'll find that the average Joe out there doesn't know about all the differences in dress codes, never heard of Cruise Critic, and even those who are using a TA don't all get good advice. There are lots of people who just book a cruise because it sounds like "fun" and don't think about everything we talk about here.

[RevNeal]

I gotta think about that one for a minute...hmmm isn't that kind of interesting? I would have thought it would be the other way around. I'd rather impress the big guy with my attire than fellow shipmates. I guess I got my priorities all screwed up. ;)

 

Your priorities may not be all screwed up, but your words DO betray a rather stark misconception regarding clothing, dress codes, and what church and the Christian faith is all about.

 

What one wears to church has absolutely no bearing on what the "big guy" thinks of them. "Impressing God" by dressing up is impossible, and has nothing to do with the Christian Faith that I live and proclaim. Quite the contrary, the Gospel I proclaim affirms that God welcomes all, without regard for any social, cultural, ethnic, or behavioral concerns. We assert: "all are welcome to come, whoever they are, just as they are."

 

When people dress up to go to church they are following cultural and societal traditions regarding "what one wears in church." Some also dress up because they're trying to impress their fellow church-goers. The first reason is what governs the presence and constitution of dress codes, while the first and second reasons govern how and why people dress up aboard ship. For many of us, we dress up -- following the dress code -- because it's "what one does on a cruise ship on formal nights." It's part of the historical, cultural, and societal norms for that activity. Some also dress up because they're trying to impress their fellow cruisers, and still others because they don't want to be thought of negatively or exuded by the staff from functions aboard ship (i.e., out of a sense of compulsion).

[Gotta Go Cruisin]

:)

Use courtesy, respect, manners and good sense and you probably will dress 'decently' and appropriately.

 

I also suspect you get it, too. :)

 

Good post. Thanks.

 

There is no doubt that the DW and I, do and will in the future, dress decently. We will also use courtesy, respect, manners and good sense, but as you have read on this thread and a related one about the "Fashion Police" the question of appropriately seems to be open to interpretation. No, I won't be in a Tux, No, I won't be in a dark suit, No, I won't wear a Jacket and Tie, but I will be dressed very nicely, as will the DW. Is that appropriate? Some here would say "No Way", get outta here, go somewhere like NCL and others would say, just enjoy yourself. I think I like the enjoy yourself crowd. :)

[RevNeal]

I suspect what Greg is saying is he'd rather have people in church dressed in whatever than not have them come at all.

 

And I also suspect, 'the big guy' as you put it probably doesn't care what they're wearing either...... They are worshipping and that is what he cares.

 

100% correct on both points.

[sail7seas]

There is no doubt that the DW and I, do and will in the future, dress decently. We will also use courtesy, respect, manners and good sense, but as you have read on this thread and a related one about the "Fashion Police" the question of appropriately seems to be open to interpretation. No, I won't be in a Tux, No, I won't be in a dark suit, No, I won't wear a Jacket and Tie, but I will be dressed very nicely, as will the DW. Is that appropriate? Some here would say "No Way", get outta here, go somewhere like NCL and others would say, just enjoy yourself. I think I like the enjoy yourself crowd. :)

 

Personnally........ I don't care what you wear. Truly.

 

However, YOU know what is expected of you. You are aware HAL has a dress code, you chose to book a cruise with HAL and you have discussed it here.

 

Wear what you wish. You either will or will not be permitted into the dining room.

 

It is up to you to decide if you wish to abide by reasonable expectations about which you were informed in advance.

 

We are all adults here and make adults choices and decisions how we wish to present and comport ourselves.

 

In any case, have a wonderful time and a great cruise.

 

It's all the same to me whatever you wear.

[grandgeezer]

Will you people QUIT saying this!!!!!

How about Azamara Club, Oceania and Seabourne???? They do not have Formal Nights?

Have you ever sailed on NCL??????

If not why do you think that NCL is so bad and that they do not dress up. You really should not be commenting about something you have no first hand experience about.... People do dress up on NCL and actually it is in so many ways like HAL you would be shocked :eek: It is HAL and their attitude that is slipping not NCL. They call their Formal Night "Formal or Not" and those that do not dress up wear very nice Country Club Casual. In all honesty I saw more people nicely dressed every night on our last NCL cruise than I have seen on our last HAL cruise on the Westerdam.

NCL still has the Captain greeting everyone and shaking their hand, they still preserve many of the traditions that HAL use to do.

NCL Suite Life is so far above HAL it truly makes HAL look and feel like McDonalds..... so before you start accusing another cruise line of being McDonalds you need to have a little experience under your belt.

I've been on NCL, and yes some people do dress up really nice but there were alot more people who took the dress code to the other extreme. The only thing I didn't see in the main dining room was people in their robes. This is one of the reason NCL will not see me again. It's the K-mart of cruising for the people who can't afford suites. Fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me. I like HAL, but my favorite is Celebrity.

[Gotta Go Cruisin]

What one wears to church has absolutely no bearing on what the "big guy" thinks of them. "Impressing God" by dressing up is impossible, and has nothing to do with the Christian Faith that I live and proclaim. Quite the contrary, the Gospel I proclaim affirms that God welcomes all, without regard for any social, cultural, ethnic, or behavioral concerns. We assert: "all are welcome to come, whoever they are, just as they are."

 

I noted your comment regarding my use of the phrase "The Big Guy" and in trying to maintain political correctness I'll substitute it with "The Big Something" or whatever you choose, since I'll defer to your expertise in the matter. ;)

Regarding your church comments, I was taught that all men seek to become like God, cast off their imperfections and be tolerant and accepting of all others. If you indeed assert that "all are welcome to come, whoever they are, just as they are", then how is it that you can patronize a cruiseline who does not embrace that same philosophy. In this case the "Dress Code" is specifically exclusionary and contrary to your assertions. Something to think about. :)

I have said before that those who like the Formal Dress nights should by all means continue to enjoy themselves. I think that is part of what makes their cruise special. I only hope there is some relaxation by HAL and most of all the attitude of my fellow passengers regarding the overall policy.

[sail7seas]

:confused: I know I have to be misunderstanding.

 

 

Are you equating a Reverend's church with a cruise ship dining room?

 

[world~citizen]

I don't presume to answer for the Rev or anyone else, but I can give you my take.

 

I also try to accept people as they are. The thing is, people as they are have all kinds of preferences, and to try to accommodate them all requires compromise (from all of us). Its really no more complicated than that - for me.

 

Smooth sailing to you...

[RevNeal]

No, I won't be in a Tux,

 

A Tux is suggested by the Line for Formal Nights, but it is not required.

 

No, I won't be in a dark suit,

 

A dark suit is suggested by the Line for Formal Nights, but it is not required.

 

No, I won't wear a Jacket and Tie, but I will be dressed very nicely, as will the DW. Is that appropriate?

 

According to HAL's Dress Code, what you describe (here and elsewhere) is "appropriate" for Smart Casual Nights. On Formal Nights, however, HAL requests that gentlemen wear at least a jacket and tie. For those who do not wish to do so, the Line provides a wonderful alternative to the MDR in the Lido Restaurant. Please note, that is NOT my opinion or the opinion of other posters on this board, it is what the Line you're buying your cruise from, and on which you will be cruising, requests and the alternative which they provide.

 

Please note that I'm not one who says that you should go to another Line if you don't want to dress up for formal nights. HAL provides wonderful alternatives for those who don't want to join in the Formal Night atmosphere, so go have fun and enjoy your cruise. There are only 2 Formal Nights per week on HAL -- on your 14 day cruise you'll be having 4 Formal Nights, but 10 Smart Casual Nights -- so I wouldn't be worried or upset about the issue.

[Gotta Go Cruisin]

:confused: I know I have to be misunderstanding.

 

 

Are you equating a Reverend's church with a cruise ship dining room?

 

 

Sure, you misunderstand it however you choose. :rolleyes:

[RevNeal]

If you indeed assert that "all are welcome to come, whoever they are, just as they are", then how is it that you can patronize a cruiseline who does not embrace that same philosophy.

 

But they DO. HAL welcomes all people -- those who can afford it -- to cruise on their ships. HAL does NOT exclude anybody due to race, nationality, religion, ethnicity, gender, martial status, sexual orientation, social status, or any other factor. All are welcome.

 

In this case the "Dress Code" is specifically exclusionary and contrary to your assertions. Something to think about. :)

 

This is utterly absurd and unworthy of an address.

[chrispb]

Bottom line: If you don't want to dress up, go on Norwegian instead of complaining about it and ignoring the dress code. Cruising is supposed to be something a little more elegant and classy. Maybe they should elminate the dress code for the passangers and waitstaff. Then you'll have people serving you mac and cheese, dressed in t-shirts, shorts and flip flops. The paper plates and plastic untensils will be coming next. I'm not a big fan of dressing up but I abide by their dress code. There's nothing more irritating than going into the dining room on formal nights and see 90% of the people dressed up and other people in jeans, tennis shoes and even baseball caps. I've seen it on every cruise I've been on and on all five of the cruiselines I've sailed.

Cruising used to be something special, but lately it's turned into a a backyard barbeque, come as you are.

 

Elegant? Classy? Some people think they can wear anything they like to formal nights so long as it is long and has a bit of sparkle.

 

I don't do "formal" but prefer the Lido anyway. I have never worn a baseball cap in my life and haven't worn tennis shoes since leaving school.

Others eating in the Lido were casually but smartly dressed and the only time I saw shorts being worn was overnight in port with people returning late evening from their trips.

 

I am sick and tired of seeing posts like yours that assume because we are not formally dressed that we go to the other extreme. I have news for you - WE DON'T. Many of us look smarter than those of you dressed in your sparkle.

[grandgeezer]

Elegant? Classy? Some people think they can wear anything they like to formal nights so long as it is long and has a bit of sparkle.

 

I don't do "formal" but prefer the Lido anyway. I have never worn a baseball cap in my life and haven't worn tennis shoes since leaving school.

Others eating in the Lido were casually but smartly dressed and the only time I saw shorts being worn was overnight in port with people returning late evening from their trips.

 

I am sick and tired of seeing posts like yours that assume because we are not formally dressed that we go to the other extreme. I have news for you - WE DON'T. Many of us look smarter than those of you dressed in your sparkle.

 

I couldn't care less about what you wear in the Lido or that you haven't worn tennis shoes since high school. The problem is in the main dining room. I didn't mean to imply that everybody dresses like they are going to McDonalds to eat, but some do. I don't sparkle, I wear a conservative suit and tie. Speaking of sick and tired, I'm sick and tired of people that think they are above adhering to the dress code and appear anyway they like on formal nights. I blame the cruiselines for not enforcing their own rules because they are afraid to offend a paying customer that doesn't have the courtesy to abide by the dress code. If you had any respect for the cruiseline, or your fellow paying customers, if you choose not to dress up, you would either continue to go to the buffet, on formal nights, or go to NCL. They don't care what you wear.

[RevNeal]

Sounds good to me. I'll be looking for ya. One toast for the Queen and one for each ship individually? Wow, after that we will be "Toasted"? :p

 

LOL.

Okay ... how about this:

The Queen gets a toast because she is the Queen.

The fleet gets a toast because it's the HAL fleet. :)

 

Two toasts. Two drinks. :D

I think that's all we dare risk or we may be staggering back to our cabins.