Cholera on Haiti

[sutuz]

I shouldn't waste time trying to discuss this other than just getting frustrated that I may not get to go to a beautiful secluded spot because of unfounded fears. I say stay on the ship or cancel this cruise. Please don't force your wishes on me.

Karen

 

Exactly how I feel!!

[janetz]

Stay on the ship. Its not like your going to miss much, that's for sure. :)

[Ocean Boy]

I understand your point, but mis-information must be answered. Always. People come here looking for good information. If we ignore the bad information, the value of this board and the reputation of everyone who participates is tarnished.

 

There are several famous quotes that can be slightly altered to illustrate this point...

 

All that is necessary for "mis-information" to triumph is for "reasonable posters" to do nothing.

 

The price of "honest information" is eternal vigilance.

 

Theron

 

I agree. But sometimes it feels like banging one's head against a brick.

[bilyclub]

I agree. But sometimes it feels like banging one's head against a brick.

 

 

 

Yes, very painful.

[temple1]

I understand your point, but mis-information must be answered. Always. People come here looking for good information. If we ignore the bad information, the value of this board and the reputation of everyone who participates is tarnished.

 

There are several famous quotes that can be slightly altered to illustrate this point...

All that is necessary for "mis-information" to triumph is for "reasonable posters" to do nothing.

 

The price of "honest information" is eternal vigilance.

Theron

 

Very true, but as Ocean Boy pointed out - dang that's a hard brick wall!!!

 

Where I was going was to continue posting facts while not actually quoting or recognizing the fear mongerer. I think everyone who posted Reality checks for other posters have done a great job and can continue to reply to new posters who come on here with their media induced fears.

[juliang]

Is it really in anyones best interest Royal Carribeans or the passengers to take a risk like this? Why not just reroute us to another island.

 

By Patrick Worsnip – Tue Nov 23, 4:59 pm ET

UNITED NATIONS (Reuters) – Haiti's deadly cholera epidemic is spreading faster than originally estimated and is likely to result in hundreds of thousands of cases and last up to a year, a senior U.N. official said on Tuesday.

Since the disease first appeared in mid-October it has killed 1,344 people as of Friday in the poverty-stricken and earthquake-ravaged Caribbean nation.

But U.N. humanitarian coordinator in Haiti Nigel Fisher said the real death toll might be "closer to two thousand than one" because of lack of data from remote areas, and the number of cases 60,000-70,000 instead of the official figure of around 50,000.

Addressing a U.N. news conference by video link from Haiti, Fisher said experts from the World Health Organization were now revising their estimate that the diarrheal disease, spread by poor sanitation, would cause 200,000 cases within six months.

"They are now revising that to 200,000 in closer to a three-month period. So this epidemic is moving faster," he said, adding that it was now present in all 10 of Haiti's provinces. "It's going to spread."

"The medical specialists all say that this cholera epidemic will continue through months and maybe a year at least, that we will see literally hundreds of thousands of cases," Fisher said.

It was "almost impossible to stop the spread of these cases because it is so contagious, and those who carry the cholera bacterium often take days to show it, and in that (time) they may move anywhere," he added.

Fisher said U.N. and other aid workers needed to "significantly ratchet up" their response, including going through faith groups to distribute chlorine tablets to purify water, and increasing the number of treatment centers.

But he said opening new treatment centers was running into resistance from local authorities because of people's fears of having them in their neighborhoods.

The anti-cholera campaign has been complicated by unconfirmed reports that U.N. peacekeepers from Nepal brought the disease to Haiti, where it had been absent for 100 years.

At least two people were killed and dozens were injured in clashes last week between U.N. troops and protesters. The United Nations has blamed the trouble on political agitators looking to inflame tensions ahead of elections next Sunday.

Edmond Mulet, head of the U.N. MINUSTAH peacekeeping mission in Haiti, told the news conference there was still "no scientific evidence" the epidemic had come from the Nepalese and that all tests carried out had proved negative. But experts continued to investigate, he said.

(Editing by Cynthia Osterman)

[sutuz]

Just curious - do you read anything that anyone else has posted or just continue to look for information you think supports your agenda?

[Ocean Boy]

The United Nations has blamed the trouble on political agitators looking to inflame tensions ahead of elections next Sunday.

 

Kind of like a few posting agitators right here trying to inflame the situation.;)

[boingy300]

Just curious - do you read anything that anyone else has posted or just continue to look for information you think supports your agenda?

 

Thank you for logic. I don't get the point of the poster- who isn't even sailing on RCCL,right- repeatedly beating this "dead, dying & soon will kill all of us" horse. So where does it stop? Will you not go to the DR? Puerto Rico? Jamaica? Gasp, Florida? If you have this kind of time, then please get equal amount of education. Look at what people (besides the UN - and there is a confirmed match of the strain from Nepal,fyi) are saying. Or hey here's one- DON'T GO on a cruise! Go somewhere that you feel comfortable with. Please don't force your hysteria on our vacation. Hey fyi the death toll is over 1400 and they are under -reporting by 400% so can you just post 400 more times(On the Celebrity board please!) as the count rises and get it out of your system? Labadee is not Haiti, trust me. You should be FAR more concerned about any Florida airport where thousands of American/ Haitian aid workers "contaminate" as they return from Haiti (of which I was just one and cared for cholera patients)A bathroom in Miami airport is far more likely to be a source of transmission than a secluded beach with minimal contact where someone may get you a chair. There - now enjoy your flight as well. Oh wait- you share air on the plane... Just keeping it real. Now can we drop this and you go back to Celebrity ?

Karen

[Maxiecat3]

Just curious - do you read anything that anyone else has posted or just continue to look for information you think supports your agenda?

 

I agree. As I posted on the other thread about Labadee, it is probably best said by one of the greatest philosophers of out time, Mr. Ron White - You can't fix stupid.;);)

[xpcdoojk]

Thank you for logic. I don't get the point of the poster- who isn't even sailing on RCCL,right- repeatedly beating this "dead, dying & soon will kill all of us" horse. So where does it stop? Will you not go to the DR? Puerto Rico? Jamaica? Gasp, Florida? If you have this kind of time, then please get equal amount of education. Look at what people (besides the UN - and there is a confirmed match of the strain from Nepal,fyi) are saying. Or hey here's one- DON'T GO on a cruise! Go somewhere that you feel comfortable with. Please don't force your hysteria on our vacation. Hey fyi the death toll is over 1400 and they are under -reporting by 400% so can you just post 400 more times(On the Celebrity board please!) as the count rises and get it out of your system? Labadee is not Haiti, trust me. You should be FAR more concerned about any Florida airport where thousands of American/ Haitian aid workers "contaminate" as they return from Haiti (of which I was just one and cared for cholera patients)A bathroom in Miami airport is far more likely to be a source of transmission than a secluded beach with minimal contact where someone may get you a chair. There - now enjoy your flight as well. Oh wait- you share air on the plane... Just keeping it real. Now can we drop this and you go back to Celebrity ?

Karen

 

Impotent and powerless people who need to make a difference. They can scare people, suddenly they are no longer powerless.

 

Sad, pathetic? You bet.

 

 

jc

[juliang]

I agree. As I posted on the other thread about Labadee, it is probably best said by one of the greatest philosophers of out time, Mr. Ron White - You can't fix stupid.;);)

 

Ron White? isnt that Aristotle's cousin? Plato's perhaps?

 

This was in reply to an article from Reuter's. no editorializing. no comment.

A doctor had posted his opinion, and immediately proceeded to be attacked. Perhaps he had an axe to grind, and "agenda" just like Reuters. There must be something so unique about this particular place, that all information which might call into question the wisdom of exposing passengers must be attacked as well as the source.

 

However, They are free to post any articles --current of course--from objective third parties which advise all visitors to Labadee it is perfectly safe to go there. I Havent seen one. How interesting. Perhaps we should just blindly follow their thought that there is little if any risk, which is 100% reliable because, after all it is their very own thought. And it is their fun which might be interfered with if we have to go another port.

 

I spoke to a highly respected Doctor, and he said if it were him, he would not get off the ship. Of course, I do not have to get off the ship, but would like to have a port day.

 

Some people are often amazed that other people actually have different politic views than they do, because they are contrary to their very own thoughts and opinions, which are 100% valid because they are theirs. ad hominems often follow closely behind. some might say this is simply the product of primitive, undeveloped thinking. I won't.

[Ocean Boy]

Some people are often amazed that other people actually have different politic views than they do, because they are contrary to their very own thoughts and opinions, which are 100% valid because they are theirs. ad hominems often follow closely behind. some might say this is simply the product of primitive, undeveloped thinking. I won't.

 

I could care less about your political views and whether or not they are different from mine. We are discussing a medical issue, or lack of, here.

[Aquahound]

Yet 4000-8000 people visit Labadee almost daily on RCCL cruise ships and not one has caught Cholera. Sorry, but facts speak louder than fear mongering.

 

But yea, let's stop sending ships there that are still supplying relief supplies just because a couple internet jockeys think they should. :rolleyes:

[Ocean Boy]

Yet 4000-8000 people visit Labadee almost daily on RCCL cruise ships and not one has caught Cholera. Sorry, but facts speak louder than fear mongering.

But yea, let's stop sending ships there that are still supplying relief supplies just because a couple internet jockeys think they should. :rolleyes:

 

And why is it that anyone should let facts get in the way of a good rant?;)

 

Pass the brick Aquahound.......

[bilyclub]

At least the Google expert has left the building, for the time being. Unless the 2 are the same person.

[Aquahound]

At least the Google expert has left the building, for the time being. Unless the 2 are the same person.

 

Pretty good assumption being that the other name was created just for this topic and the writing is very similar.

 

Ok, who wants the brick next?

[BND]

People do realize that just because they have a friend who is a doctor but not a disease specialist doesn't mean he/she knows anymore than the general population about a disease he/she has probably never seen. You know the saying, a little bit of knowledge is a dangerous thing? As for the Reuters story posted above, it has absolutely nothing to do with Labadee and the cruises that stop there, and good sanitation that exists there. Labadee might as well be 1,000 miles away from Port Au Prince for all the differences in modern practices.

[Albert Ross]

Whilst Reuters is the most highly respected news agency in the world - their reporter is focusing on the capital and not on Labadee which is a walled off, cordoned, sanitised little bit of America and bears no resemblance at all to the living conditons, sanitary arrangements or any other events that are going on the 'other side of the wall.'

[sutuz]

Ron White? isnt that Aristotle's cousin? Plato's perhaps?

 

This was in reply to an article from Reuter's. no editorializing. no comment.

A doctor had posted his opinion, and immediately proceeded to be attacked. Perhaps he had an axe to grind, and "agenda" just like Reuters. There must be something so unique about this particular place, that all information which might call into question the wisdom of exposing passengers must be attacked as well as the source.

 

However, They are free to post any articles --current of course--from objective third parties which advise all visitors to Labadee it is perfectly safe to go there. I Havent seen one. How interesting. Perhaps we should just blindly follow their thought that there is little if any risk, which is 100% reliable because, after all it is their very own thought. And it is their fun which might be interfered with if we have to go another port.

 

I spoke to a highly respected Doctor, and he said if it were him, he would not get off the ship. Of course, I do not have to get off the ship, but would like to have a port day.

 

Some people are often amazed that other people actually have different politic views than they do, because they are contrary to their very own thoughts and opinions, which are 100% valid because they are theirs. ad hominems often follow closely behind. some might say this is simply the product of primitive, undeveloped thinking. I won't.

 

Thank you for proving my point of a few posts back where I asked if you bother to read anything anyone else posts. Apparently you do, since you reply to the ones you think you can use, but ignore the ones you don't - for instance, specific references to CDC and their direct response to an inquiry asking about Labadee. I guess CDC doesn't count as a credible source....

 

Anyway, my wall is demolished and my head is tired of being pounded - have a good Thanksgiving!

[Maxiecat3]

Ron White? isnt that Aristotle's cousin? Plato's perhaps?

 

This was in reply to an article from Reuter's. no editorializing. no comment.

A doctor had posted his opinion, and immediately proceeded to be attacked. Perhaps he had an axe to grind, and "agenda" just like Reuters. There must be something so unique about this particular place, that all information which might call into question the wisdom of exposing passengers must be attacked as well as the source.

 

However, They are free to post any articles --current of course--from objective third parties which advise all visitors to Labadee it is perfectly safe to go there. I Havent seen one. How interesting. Perhaps we should just blindly follow their thought that there is little if any risk, which is 100% reliable because, after all it is their very own thought. And it is their fun which might be interfered with if we have to go another port.

 

I spoke to a highly respected Doctor, and he said if it were him, he would not get off the ship. Of course, I do not have to get off the ship, but would like to have a port day.

 

Some people are often amazed that other people actually have different politic views than they do, because they are contrary to their very own thoughts and opinions, which are 100% valid because they are theirs. ad hominems often follow closely behind. some might say this is simply the product of primitive, undeveloped thinking. I won't.

 

A post from the other thread below:

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by hypercafe

Advice for Travelers

 

At this time, CDC and the U.S. Department of State maintain travel warnings for Haiti. These warnings recommend that U.S. citizens avoid all nonessential travel to Haiti. For more information, see Travel Health Warning: Major Earthquake in Port-au-Prince, Haiti on the CDC website.

 

I just read this, what do all the RCI flag wavers think of it?

 

I think you should read all the information available, not just the information that is specific to the general population of Haiti. This is also from CDC's website:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Risk for Travelers

• Travelers who follow usual tourist itineraries and who observe food safety recommendations while in countries reporting cholera have virtually no risk. The risk is increased for those who drink untreated water or eat poorly cooked or raw seafood in disease-endemic areas.
  

And for the record, I'm not an RCCL flag waver - I'm a Don't Panic and Use Your Common Sense flag waver. :)

 

Do the CDC recommendations meet with your approval??

 

Gregg

[Maxiecat3]

Thank you for proving my point of a few posts back where I asked if you bother to read anything anyone else posts. Apparently you do, since you reply to the ones you think you can use, but ignore the ones you don't - for instance, specific references to CDC and their direct response to an inquiry asking about Labadee. I guess CDC doesn't count as a credible source....

 

Anyway, my wall is demolished and my head is tired of being pounded - have a good Thanksgiving!

 

 

Hope you didn't mind that I copied and pasted your reply from the other thread on Labadee (see above)

 

Gregg

[sutuz]

Hope you didn't mind that I copied and pasted your reply from the other thread on Labadee (see above)

 

Gregg

 

Not at all - I appreciate being spelled from banging my head against the above-mentioned brick wall. :)

[Maxiecat3]

Not at all - I appreciate being spelled from banging my head against the above-mentioned brick wall. :)

 

 

I just noticed you have a cruise this week-end. Some advice: When you get on board the ship you need to meet the captain and tell him he needs to reverse the itinerary. Right now Labadee is your first stop and you want it to be your final stop so when you get off the ship in Labadee, catch Cholera and die in as little as 4 hours as some of the doom & gloom posting say, at least you would have enjoyed the other ports.:D:D

 

Gregg

[sutuz]

I just noticed you have a cruise this week-end. Some advice: When you get on board the ship you need to meet the captain and tell him he needs to reverse the itinerary. Right now Labadee is your first stop and you want it to be your final stop so when you get off the ship in Labadee, catch Cholera and die in as little as 4 hours as some of the doom & gloom posting say, at least you would have enjoyed the other ports.:D:D

 

Gregg

 

Great idea! LOL