Need Opinions from Mom's & Dad's

[simmingdenise]

A little backstory with no details: I have an 18 year old daughter that absolutely exhausted me, we don't even talk to each other today (drugs, crime, pregnancy, you name it.)

My 16-year old son is going down a similar path and despite me telling him he was grounded last night he took off and was gone all night. He is failing all his classes in school and was sent to an "alternative" school yesterday (basically kicked out of his public school.) No this does not involve ANY drugs or trouble with the law...simply not wanting to do school work or get a job. This kid doesn't want to DO anything...it is much easier for him to do nothing and hang out with his friends. We're even talking about simple chores like taking out the trash or dishes not being done. I've talked and reasoned until I am blue in the face.

OK, I'm not looking for parenting advice on this forum what I'm looking for is an opinion about our upcoming vacation. We plan on going to Disneyland and Paradise for 3 days each. My husbands daughter is graduating from HS and turning 18, this cruise is for her. She works hard, bought her own car, and is passing school on the honor roll (doesn't live with me LOL.) She is bringing a friend on the trip with us.

We told my son he could bring a friend (this was last October) and are paying for him in full. We are booked for everything but still have time to cancel if I go through with my idea. My idea is to tell my son that he has until May 8th (our final cancellation date) to either be passing school and dedicated or have a decent job and be supporting himself (paying minor rent/food/utilities.) If he doesn't fufil one of these requirements he and his friend will be unable to go with us on this trip.

I am consumed with guilt over this and feel like as his mother I could not live with myself by going without him (can anyone say enabler?)

What do fellow cruiser Mom's and Dad's think of this?

[cb at sea]

Ok...you KNOW you're an enabler and you know enabling your kids isn't getting the result you want.

Tough love, sooner rather than later, is best!

Good luck!

[uppitycats]

You know he's a troublemaker and you're intending to leave him home??? I'd probably cancel the cruise myself, stay home with him, let husband go on cruise with his responsible daughter (I'm assuming this is a "blended family"?)

[78232]

From the voice of experience. I took a 19yr old daughter on a cruise. She had similar behaviors as your son and daughter. I remember it as our worst family vacation. She had no interest in being with us and was drinking most of the time. Under the circumstances, I would definitely cancel the friend and probably your son. I would then present it as a gift to your step daughter as a reward for her good grades and behavior.

The only tricky thing will be ..where will your son stay so he doesn't trash your house.

One of life's basic lessons is if you act good, good things happen to you and if you act bad, bad things happen to you.

Marcia

[simmingdenise]

He won't be alone and completely unsupervised for the week. We will have a friend of the family taking care of our dog and cat, they will come by daily. He won't trash the house, he just won't take care of the animals or do his dishes. I'm thinking one of his friends Mom's will let him spend the nights at their house.

 

The kid is VERY polite and respectful with the OTHER mothers. They think he is wonderful and he helps out at their homes every time he is there.

 

I have considered staying home with him, but the trip is a reward for my husband's daughter. A combination 18th B-day/HS graduation gift. Staying home only punishes everyone. Yes we have a blended family, 2 are mine and the one who doesn't live her is my husbands.

 

That is another argument with myself on why we should take him. Back & forth it goes :eek:

[6rugrats]

We told my son he could bring a friend (this was last October) and are paying for him in full. We are booked for everything but still have time to cancel if I go through with my idea. My idea is to tell my son that he has until May 8th (our final cancellation date) to either be passing school and dedicated or have a decent job and be supporting himself (paying minor rent/food/utilities.) If he doesn't fufil one of these requirements he and his friend will be unable to go with us on this trip.

I am consumed with guilt over this and feel like as his mother I could not live with myself by going without him (can anyone say enabler?)

What do fellow cruiser Mom's and Dad's think of this?

Read my posting name; I have several children (mine and steps) and I think we've been through it all.

 

Sorry, I am going to give you parenting advice, because it's so intertwined with what you're asking. Your son is almost a man, and it's time for him to grow up and learn actions have consequences. I know from experience, blended families are hard, and I bet you have a difficult time with being "fair" and feeling guilty. I guarantee you are doing your son no favors by caving on this, or anything else. Part of being a parent sometimes is having our kids be angry with us, but you just have to do it because it's the right thing.

 

Your post is making a lot of excuses for your son. If you are honest with yourself and think about it, I am guessing you make excuses for him all the time. Don't backpedal! He's in a bad place, I don't care how much other moms love him. He's acting out. Get him to a therapist ASAP. Get a referral from his school counselor if you don't know where to start.

 

Tell him what the requirements are for him to go on this cruise. Write it down, make a contract with him and make him sign it. Be sure to include what will happen if he has to stay home. DO NOT leave him at home by himself. Are you kidding? You want to leave an angry, irresponsible teen at home? Trouble, trouble, trouble. It's ridiculous that you state he wouldn't do the dishes or take care of the animals if he was home alone. He's not a four year old! If you can't find a responsible adult you trust, you should stay at home. No one said we got to do what we wanted all the time when we are a parent.

 

You are an enabler and this didn't help your daughter and it's not helping your son.

[cantwait2cruize]

What about talking to your 18 year old daughter, and asking her "what would have made a difference in her life if you had done something when she was 16"?. I have raised three kids....my daughter is now 23 married and has a her degree in Child and Youth counseling. I've asked her why she thinks her and her bothers turned out great. Her answer is, That I never felt quilty for punishing them, and also the threat if they ever did drugs I would handcuff them in the basement and lock the door worked well!:p ( I just might have done it, if I needed too:eek:) Good Luck! It's a hard job being a parent. Never give up!

[simmingdenise]

Tell him what the requirements are for him to go on this cruise. Write it down, make a contract with him and make him sign it. Be sure to include what will happen if he has to stay home. DO NOT leave him at home by himself. Are you kidding? You want to leave an angry, irresponsible teen at home? Trouble, trouble, trouble. It's ridiculous that you state he wouldn't do the dishes or take care of the animals if he was home alone. He's not a four year old! If you can't find a responsible adult you trust, you should stay at home. No one said we got to do what we wanted all the time when we are a parent.

 

Thanks for the advice, we are in the middle (and were with the daughter) with most of what you suggested.

 

The contract is very good advice and we did try it with our daughter but unfortunately it was a disaster on both sides. I will do this!

 

Thanks everyone for your responses. Being a parent sucks in the hard times...how I wish they were 2 again:) Tying shoes and eating the veggies is easy compared with teaching them to become an adult!!

[celle]

A little backstory with no details: I have an 18 year old daughter that absolutely exhausted me, we don't even talk to each other today (drugs, crime, pregnancy, you name it.)

My 16-year old son is going down a similar path and despite me telling him he was grounded last night he took off and was gone all night. He is failing all his classes in school and was sent to an "alternative" school yesterday (basically kicked out of his public school.) No this does not involve ANY drugs or trouble with the law...simply not wanting to do school work or get a job. This kid doesn't want to DO anything...it is much easier for him to do nothing and hang out with his friends. We're even talking about simple chores like taking out the trash or dishes not being done. I've talked and reasoned until I am blue in the face.

OK, I'm not looking for parenting advice on this forum what I'm looking for is an opinion about our upcoming vacation. We plan on going to Disneyland and Paradise for 3 days each. My husbands daughter is graduating from HS and turning 18, this cruise is for her. She works hard, bought her own car, and is passing school on the honor roll (doesn't live with me LOL.) She is bringing a friend on the trip with us.

We told my son he could bring a friend (this was last October) and are paying for him in full. We are booked for everything but still have time to cancel if I go through with my idea. My idea is to tell my son that he has until May 8th (our final cancellation date) to either be passing school and dedicated or have a decent job and be supporting himself (paying minor rent/food/utilities.) If he doesn't fufil one of these requirements he and his friend will be unable to go with us on this trip.

I am consumed with guilt over this and feel like as his mother I could not live with myself by going without him (can anyone say enabler?)

What do fellow cruiser Mom's and Dad's think of this?

 

Sorry, parenting advice is inevitable here!

 

Your son has no respect for you and he is playing you for all it is worth. He's just being a passenger, along for the ride, and accepting no responsibilities for himself.

 

You know that you are an enabler and that your past attempts at bringing him into line have not worked. So, your approach has to change.

 

First, have a talk with your husband. Both of you need to be on the same page here, and you will need backup to enforce your decisions.

 

Second, as you suggested, give your son a date by which he has to improve - shape up at school and start being a help around the house. Be specific about what improvements you need to see. Write it down.

 

Third, tell your son that, unless he improves by the deadline date, he will not be going on the cruise, and nor will his friend. (You know he's taking advantage of you and yet you are still willing to pay for a friend to come too? :confused:)

 

Fourth, make whether he goes or not your son's problem, not yours. He has a choice here: Improve and go cruising, or don't improve and don't go cruising. It's entirely up to him.

 

Fifth, don't feel guilty about being tough here. Being the parent is not easy and being a tough parent is even harder. But, if you want to see a change in your son, this is what you will have to do.

 

It might be a good idea to have a talk with the parents of your son's friend, so that they know what is going on. Otherwise, the friend may be upset, too. No harm in the friend knowing that his cruise depends on an improvement in your son's behaviour - if he's a decent kid, he may just help here.

 

Good luck! Be strong!

[CoffeeAndTulips]

I understand the guilt - for years (since 3rd Grade!) my plan was to take my 18 year old, High School Grad son on a special trip for his graduation present. My older son would have come along, too, but in the last few years he (the older one) has made some decisions that change the ability for him to come along (baby, marriage, job). As much as I would like to take my older son and his wife, I can't do it. This is something HE will now have to make plans for in the future. The 18 y.o. and my 7 y.o. are going with me to Norway in July....vacation plans for this son will go on as planned for him for years - the older son has chosen a different path.

 

I believe your son should be able to choose which path he wants to follow. One path leads to a cruise, the other to staying home. I would encourage you to lay out the "roadmap", so to speak, then, step back and let him man up to his decision. Then, you can lose some of your guilt by knowing that, in the end, it was your SON's decision (not yours) for him to experience the cruise or not.

[bus man]

You know he's a troublemaker and you're intending to leave him home??? I'd probably cancel the cruise myself, stay home with him, let husband go on cruise with his responsible daughter (I'm assuming this is a "blended family"?)

 

I would do just the opposite. Assuming he doesn't shape up before then, I would go on the cruise and leave your son at home. Let him see that his actions caused him to lose out on this vacation. If he gets in trouble while you're gone, then let him face the consequences on his own. But I see no reason why you should have to deny yourself this vacation.

 

Yes, this will require a degree of "tough love" on your part. Reading between the lines, I gather that this is not your strong suit. Moreover, your kids know it, and have responded accordingly. But as another poster said, now, not later, would be a good time to put it into practice.

[keichman]

The very first question I have is whether a cruise is enough of a motivating factor for your son. Sure, WE all assume that he will work for the cruise....and perhaps he would even like to go, particularly with his friend. But it seems quite a nice "reward" to stay home without mom and step-dad. I don't know your son, but perhaps being on the cruise WITHOUT a friend is more of a negative consequence, or staying home with mom could be a negative consequence, too. For a guy that likes to do his own thing, staying home alone doesn't seem like much of a negative. But you know your son better than any of us here. JMHO

[boulders]

The very first question I have is whether a cruise is enough of a motivating factor for your son. Sure, WE all assume that he will work for the cruise....and perhaps he would even like to go, particularly with his friend. But it seems quite a nice "reward" to stay home without mom and step-dad. I don't know your son, but perhaps being on the cruise WITHOUT a friend is more of a negative consequence, or staying home with mom could be a negative consequence, too. For a guy that likes to do his own thing, staying home alone doesn't seem like much of a negative. But you know your son better than any of us here. JMHO

 

Since the OP says all he wants to do is hang out with his friends, I would completely agree with the above. I know that my ds15 would MUCH rather stay home than go on another cruise with mom.

 

OP, you need to find you son's "currency" ie what matters to him and then make your carrot or stick based on that. Good luck!

[sas80]

I say cancel now citing his behavior. Let him know that he and his friend are no longer going with you, you have canceled them out completely.

 

He doesn't deserve to be rewarded for his behavior, even if he shapes up in the short amount of time between now and the cruise.

 

We only have toddlers but we are doing our best to encourage them to be responsible and potty train. Our 4yo is being resistant and the doctors have said it is now time to start taking things away. We have taken his "cars" toys, his "thomas" toys and a few other thigns away off and on. We always cite the idea that responsible people are rewarded and people who are not responsible have things taken away when we take the toys away and also give them back. I hate to punish him like this but I am hoping that the message is not lost on him.

 

Good luck.

[6rugrats]

I Our 4yo is being resistant and the doctors have said it is now time to start taking things away. We have taken his "cars" toys, his "thomas" toys and a few other thigns away off and on. We always cite the idea that responsible people are rewarded and people who are not responsible have things taken away when we take the toys away and also give them back. I hate to punish him like this but I am hoping that the message is not lost on him.

 

I'm not sure what to say to that, but perhaps you should consider getting a new pediatrician. You cannot successfully potty train a child by using punishment. If he's not ready, he will just fight you. Back off, don't get emotional about it; just teach him how to deal with the mess if he has an accident. Making him responsible for cleaning up after himself may be a better motivator than punishing him.

 

It's possible he is perfectly capable of being successful, but he's fighting you on it. If you seem unconcerned, it loses the emotional value it now has, and he will give up.

[sas80]

I'm not sure what to say to that, but perhaps you should consider getting a new pediatrician. You cannot successfully potty train a child by using punishment. If he's not ready, he will just fight you. Back off, don't get emotional about it; just teach him how to deal with the mess if he has an accident. Making him responsible for cleaning up after himself may be a better motivator than punishing him.

 

It's possible he is perfectly capable of being successful, but he's fighting you on it. If you seem unconcerned, it loses the emotional value it now has, and he will give up.

 

That is exactly what the doctors said right around his 4th birthday. He's now about 4.5 and nothing has changed. The doctors said that if we did this technique he should right himself in about a month. Been there, done this. He's perfectly fine with changing his clothes after an "accident" and we all know you cant send a kid who has soiled themselves into a bathroom alone to clean themselves up - unless you want an even bigger mess to clean up. Thankfully we very rarely have him pooping himself.

 

He's being the typical "would rather pee on myself than stop playing to use the bathroom" kind of kid. He very much knows better as he will go a whole day to earn his toys back and then a day or two later he starts to wet himself again.

 

We feel that he is old enough to understand how his actions have consequences and are comfortable with the consequences we have determined fit the issue at hand. Hence the responsible/reward, irresponsible/luxuries taken away method. We are crossing our fingers that he will have this figured out by 5.

 

 

Thanks for your words. We're happy with this method.

(P.S. - let's not make this thread about me, thx.)

[OasisFamily2011]

I am going to go in a completely different direction than some others. I wouldn't let the 15 year out of my sight. That is young to stay at home alone IMO, especially if his behavior is not that great. I would tell him he's going on the cruise, his friend is not coming, and that if his grades and behavior don't improve he is going to be spending every second aboard the ship with you. When I was 15, I would have loved to have my parents leave me by myself for a whole week. He may actually prefer to be left behind.

 

If you really don't want to bring him on the cruise, stay home with him and let your husband and his daughter enjoy themselves. He will be an adult in three years, then you can take a vacation without him. It's not that long in the scheme of things.

[sas80]

I am going to go in a completely different direction than some others. I wouldn't let the 15 year out of my sight. That is young to stay at home alone IMO, especially if his behavior is not that great. I would tell him he's going on the cruise, his friend is not coming, and that if his grades and behavior don't improve he is going to be spending every second aboard the ship with you. When I was 15, I would have loved to have my parents leave me by myself for a whole week. He may actually prefer to be left behind.

 

If you really don't want to bring him on the cruise, stay home with him and let your husband and his daughter enjoy themselves. He will be an adult in three years, then you can take a vacation without him. It's not that long in the scheme of things.

 

I was thinking the same things. Who is to say he is going to mind the person you have watch the pets while you are gone? If it's early enough mom should opt out and let Dad and daughter go. It sux that mom has to do this (because it seems like she is also getting punished) but there will be other cruises. do you have a solid relative you can ship him off to until you get back? Preferrably one who lives in the middle of nowhere.

[bplazo]

What a tough situation because I have always enjoyed cruising with my daughter even though we have our battles. If you decide to leave him home I would make sure that he has a babysitter.

[sas80]

What a tough situation because I have always enjoyed cruising with my daughter even though we have our battles. If you decide to leave him home I would make sure that he has a babysitter.

 

And make sure the babysitter has handcuffs and a good supply of duct tape ;):D

 

kidding!

[alj1208]

I don't have the answer, but I do want to offer some empathy and some thoughts. Does your son (and maybe your absent daughter) have any behavioral/emotional problems that might be addressed with medication and counseling? Seems unrealistic to hold out the cruise as a reward or lack of a cruise as punishment if his behavioral problems are so pervasive. Like I said, I can't tell you what to do about the cruise, but certainly it's worth getting him evaluated in an effort to improve his quality of life and yours. Perhaps you have already done this.... but sometimes the child that pushes you away with his or her bad behavior is the one that needs you the most.

[tkportersat]

Sorry, off thread topic a bit:

It may not be his fault...my daughter wet the bed until she was 11. Someone recommended taking her to a chiropractor and I kid you not she never did it again. Something may be resting on a nerve. I always used to say "oh, she just sleeps so hard she doesn't get up to go". We don't realize how connected everything is in the body. Good luck.

 

That is exactly what the doctors said right around his 4th birthday. He's now about 4.5 and nothing has changed. The doctors said that if we did this technique he should right himself in about a month. Been there, done this. He's perfectly fine with changing his clothes after an "accident" and we all know you cant send a kid who has soiled themselves into a bathroom alone to clean themselves up - unless you want an even bigger mess to clean up. Thankfully we very rarely have him pooping himself.

 

He's being the typical "would rather pee on myself than stop playing to use the bathroom" kind of kid. He very much knows better as he will go a whole day to earn his toys back and then a day or two later he starts to wet himself again.

 

We feel that he is old enough to understand how his actions have consequences and are comfortable with the consequences we have determined fit the issue at hand. Hence the responsible/reward, irresponsible/luxuries taken away method. We are crossing our fingers that he will have this figured out by 5.

 

 

Thanks for your words. We're happy with this method.

(P.S. - let's not make this thread about me, thx.)

[tkportersat]

Best of luck to you :) I am also not good at follow through (I raised my two kids as a single mom for 7 years after my husband's suicide). My kids are now almost 19 and 17. I have been very lucky as for the most part my kids are good people and make the right decision most of the time. My son tends to be on the lazy side but is a good hearted, sweet young man. My daughter stays out of trouble usually but on our last cruise (3/13) she hung out with some folks whose parents gave them vodka.....needless to say she ended up drunk and throwing up in her cabin shower. My worry for you is that if you let your son go with you he is going to ruin your vacation. My daughter didn't ruin our trip per se but she definitely disappointed me with some of her decisions (I had given her a curfew that she didn't follow either). I told her that we would no longer be taking her on vacation. It is also making me think she isn't ready to have a car either, so she may have delayed her chances for that as well.

 

What has helped me is my new husband helping me to reinforce decisions and help me stick to them. I know how hard it is to be the bad guy but simply put it doesn't do them any good to get away with everything; they need boundaries. Hope everything works out for you.

 

A little backstory with no details: I have an 18 year old daughter that absolutely exhausted me, we don't even talk to each other today (drugs, crime, pregnancy, you name it.)

My 16-year old son is going down a similar path and despite me telling him he was grounded last night he took off and was gone all night. He is failing all his classes in school and was sent to an "alternative" school yesterday (basically kicked out of his public school.) No this does not involve ANY drugs or trouble with the law...simply not wanting to do school work or get a job. This kid doesn't want to DO anything...it is much easier for him to do nothing and hang out with his friends. We're even talking about simple chores like taking out the trash or dishes not being done. I've talked and reasoned until I am blue in the face.

OK, I'm not looking for parenting advice on this forum what I'm looking for is an opinion about our upcoming vacation. We plan on going to Disneyland and Paradise for 3 days each. My husbands daughter is graduating from HS and turning 18, this cruise is for her. She works hard, bought her own car, and is passing school on the honor roll (doesn't live with me LOL.) She is bringing a friend on the trip with us.

We told my son he could bring a friend (this was last October) and are paying for him in full. We are booked for everything but still have time to cancel if I go through with my idea. My idea is to tell my son that he has until May 8th (our final cancellation date) to either be passing school and dedicated or have a decent job and be supporting himself (paying minor rent/food/utilities.) If he doesn't fufil one of these requirements he and his friend will be unable to go with us on this trip.

I am consumed with guilt over this and feel like as his mother I could not live with myself by going without him (can anyone say enabler?)

What do fellow cruiser Mom's and Dad's think of this?

[Warmer Climes]

A little backstory with no details: I have an 18 year old daughter that absolutely exhausted me, we don't even talk to each other today (drugs, crime, pregnancy, you name it.)

My 16-year old son is going down a similar path and despite me telling him he was grounded last night he took off and was gone all night. He is failing all his classes in school and was sent to an "alternative" school yesterday (basically kicked out of his public school.) No this does not involve ANY drugs or trouble with the law...simply not wanting to do school work or get a job. This kid doesn't want to DO anything...it is much easier for him to do nothing and hang out with his friends. We're even talking about simple chores like taking out the trash or dishes not being done. I've talked and reasoned until I am blue in the face.

OK, I'm not looking for parenting advice on this forum what I'm looking for is an opinion about our upcoming vacation. We plan on going to Disneyland and Paradise for 3 days each. My husbands daughter is graduating from HS and turning 18, this cruise is for her. She works hard, bought her own car, and is passing school on the honor roll (doesn't live with me LOL.) She is bringing a friend on the trip with us.

We told my son he could bring a friend (this was last October) and are paying for him in full. We are booked for everything but still have time to cancel if I go through with my idea. My idea is to tell my son that he has until May 8th (our final cancellation date) to either be passing school and dedicated or have a decent job and be supporting himself (paying minor rent/food/utilities.) If he doesn't fufil one of these requirements he and his friend will be unable to go with us on this trip.

I am consumed with guilt over this and feel like as his mother I could not live with myself by going without him (can anyone say enabler?)

What do fellow cruiser Mom's and Dad's think of this?

 

I have four kids (25 to 12) and I have been through some things with some of them. I would not take your son on a vacation. He hasn't earned a vacation. I would leave him somewhere supervised. The fact that his behavior has deteriorated to the staying out all night after being grounded and getting kicked out of school point means he needs to be seeing a counselor. Maybe the HS can help you find one. Persist until he gets some help. (please don't take that in a hurtful or critical way- I know from experience that it's so hard to have a kid with problems and one of the reasons is that everyone blames Mom for everything.)

 

And from one mom to another- HUG.

[milton333]

I don't have the answer, but I do want to offer some empathy and some thoughts. Does your son (and maybe your absent daughter) have any behavioral/emotional problems that might be addressed with medication and counseling? Seems unrealistic to hold out the cruise as a reward or lack of a cruise as punishment if his behavioral problems are so pervasive. Like I said, I can't tell you what to do about the cruise, but certainly it's worth getting him evaluated in an effort to improve his quality of life and yours. Perhaps you have already done this.... but sometimes the child that pushes you away with his or her bad behavior is the one that needs you the most.

 

I agree with this - I think counseling would be most beneficial. At this point, if it were me, I'd want a professional's opinion on what to do to help my child, because whatever I'd been doing obviously wasn't working, and maybe intervention like meds was necessary.

 

I also agree with prior posters that you should stay home with your son and let hubby cruise with his daughter without you. Unfortunately. Your son needs your supervision, and I agree that at that age, I'd be thrilled to have mom gone for a week - that's no punishment at all. And he'd ruin your vacation, and most importantly, he'd ruin hubby's daughter's vacation, if he came with.