Just off Freedom caught in storm October 9th

[BND]

Question, why are people using the term "listed" instead of "rolled"? DH is a retired US Navy Captain and he's befuddled by what occurred (mainly because we don't have enough info), but listed means rolls and stays in that position for a long period, rolled means it rolled to the side and rolled right back upright. I don't think the ship listed. There's too much we don't know about the conditions, etc.

[orville99]

Question, why are people using the term "listed" instead of "rolled"? DH is a retired US Navy Captain and he's befuddled by what occurred (mainly because we don't have enough info), but listed means rolls and stays in that position for a long period, rolled means it rolled to the side and rolled right back upright. I don't think the ship listed. There's too much we don't know about the conditions, etc.

 

 

Given that the (albeit sketchy) reports indicate that the Master ordered FOS turned dead into the wind and adjusted her speed (I presume to damper the wave cycle), it could be that the strength of the sustained winds kept the ship off center (like when you reach in a sailboat) which would mean listed is probably more accurate than rolled.

[orville99]

and we had 2 hurricanes actually hit here inland in 2004.........lost power for days and lots of trees down(Ocala has been named Tree City 20 years in a row) Hurricane hitting here like that is unusual..

 

 

Thanks all for the Zeta info.....

 

We are just far enough south of you that we got all three (Charlie, Frances, and Jean). In fact when we put our address into Google earth and overlayed the tracks of those three storms, the pin is dead center in the middle of the X:eek:

[cruiser915]

I know there have been some videos posted already, but for anyone interested here is some more that was shot from the Schooner Bar (Deck 5) on Majesty of the Seas on Saturday afternoon. It's interesting how much more severe it seemed while onboard than it does watching the video! We were feeling it pretty good and that was before it really cranked up and got the FOS.

 

[goouchjac]

and we had 2 hurricanes actually hit here inland in 2004.........lost power for days and lots of trees down(Ocala has been named Tree City 20 years in a row) Hurricane hitting here like that is unusual..

 

 

Thanks all for the Zeta info.....

 

I won't forget it either:mad:,,that's when we got stuck with Citizens ins. and the first payment was soooo high we had to cancel our cruise for that year,,and we are still stuck with Citizens,,,wish we could get out of it,,we don't live near the water at all:mad:

[PH8]

I know there have been some videos posted already, but for anyone interested here is some more that was shot from the Schooner Bar (Deck 5) on Majesty of the Seas on Saturday afternoon. It's interesting how much more severe it seemed while onboard than it does watching the video! We were feeling it pretty good and that was before it really cranked up and got the FOS.

 

Doesnt look that bad to me

 

I won't forget it either:mad:,,that's when we got stuck with Citizens ins. and the first payment was soooo high we had to cancel our cruise for that year,,and we are still stuck with Citizens,,,wish we could get out of it,,we don't live near the water at all:mad:

I know..we moved here from Palm Harbor..live down the street from Sweet Tomatoes(across from Lake St George Elem--where I worked)

[Ander026]

We are just far enough south of you that we got all three (Charlie, Frances, and Jean). In fact when we put our address into Google earth and overlayed the tracks of those three storms, the pin is dead center in the middle of the X:eek:

 

I will never forget the 2004 season with Charlie, Frances, and Jean. All three came through Disney where I work. In fact during that year Disney actually was closed and all guests had to stay in their rooms. I was on duty throughout all 3 and also had to stay put in our guest rooms as well. I believe the total time closed was 3.5 days overall.

[Lynnees]

I think on that one they were actually on their way into the port. http://www.cruisecritic.com/news/news.cfm?ID=4269

 

But they had been told it wasn't a good idea to leave Rhodes and all the other ships listened, the Brilliance didn't. As far as I know, the Master of the ship at that time was replaced.

[bajathree]

But they had been told it wasn't a good idea to leave Rhodes and all the other ships listened, the Brilliance didn't. As far as I know, the Master of the ship at that time was replaced.

 

Some here seem to think that the Master of the ship are almighty gods....they are human and can make bad judgment calls just like all of us.....can think of a few pilots of some very large commercial airlines that have made some very poor judgement calls....and some aren't around any more to tell about it.

[stan1]

I have enough ocean and cruise experience to recognize the Captain's responsibility. There was ample weather data from buoys and satellites to show what was coming, and the other cruise ship captains chose ( with permission of their repective Marine Operations chief) to remain in port. When at sea, many Captains decide ( at substantial fuel costs) to avoid weather for good reason, as shown with this mess. No matter how pleasant he is on the shipboard anouncements, he made the decision to depart in the face of deteriorating very bad weather, and is the one to blame.

[Lynnees]

Some here seem to think that the Master of the ship are almighty gods....they are human and can make bad judgment calls just like all of us.....can think of a few pilots of some very large commercial airlines that have made some very poor judgement calls....and some aren't around any more to tell about it.

 

I don't think the captain or anyone else for that matter is a god - and I will not make excuses for them. This one and the one on the Brilliance made poor judgement calls, in my opinion. Something I'm allowed to have. The difference between errors made by airline pilots, ships captains and doctors - doctors bury their mistakes the other's get bad publicity.

[bajathree]

I don't think the captain or anyone else for that matter is a god - and I will not make excuses for them. This one and the one on the Brilliance made poor judgement calls, in my opinion. Something I'm allowed to have. The difference between errors made by airline pilots, ships captains and doctors - doctors bury their mistakes the other's get bad publicity.

 

I didn't think you would;).....but sure seems like some think that it's simply not possible for a captain to make a mistake.

 

“The only man who never makes mistakes is the man who never does anything.” Theodore Roosevelt

 

It can happen.....Sharp heeling of cruise ship caused by steering mistake, NTSB says http://www.professionalmariner.com/ME2/dirmod.asp?nm=Archives&type=Publishing&mod=Publications::Article&mid=8F3A7027421841978F18BE895F87F791&tier=4&id=904AF24E2E2549ADB82C03D3C3758194

[SherriZ366]

Got remnants of the storm in SC from Sun night through Wed. Was looking for a thread on how it affected Freedom.

[BND]

I didn't think you would;).....but sure seems like some think that it's simply not possible for a captain to make a mistake.

 

“The only man who never makes mistakes is the man who never does anything.” Theodore Roosevelt

 

It can happen.....Sharp heeling of cruise ship caused by steering mistake, NTSB says http://www.professionalmariner.com/ME2/dirmod.asp?nm=Archives&type=Publishing&mod=Publications::Article&mid=8F3A7027421841978F18BE895F87F791&tier=4&id=904AF24E2E2549ADB82C03D3C3758194

 

It's called ultimate responsibility and it doesn't matter who made the decision, because the captain is the one ultimately responsible. I have seen Captains relieved who were nowhere near the bridge during an event such as running the ship ashore (US navy). Fact is, there's too much we don't know. We've sailed with Captain Rob and he is a nice guy and very funny, but he can be held responsible for what happened.

 

We were in Orlando at the Peabody all weekend and Fri from about 11 am til Sun afternoon, it was nasty, heavy rain, wind. Very much like a tropical storm. I think NHC missed the mark big time.

[cctimmom]

I haven't had a chance to read through this whole thread, but I just got off the Disney Dream, which was also docked alongside Freedom and the Carnival Sensation on Sunday 10/9.

 

The storm was pretty scary for not being a named storm.

 

We had our sail away party on time, and they did the Dream horn... and then we sat... and sat. The Captain came on saying that Freedom had just departed and clocked 65 knot winds (which, if my calculations are correct, are hurricane force). The Captain first said that we were going to try and wait it out for a bit and could go in an hour's notice. Sensation already called the ball and was staying overnight, setting sail, I believe, for 7am, but if we could find a window we would try to go for it. Around 8pm, the Captain came back on stating that Port Canaveral was closed down and that we wouldn't set sail until the next morning -- shooting for 4:30 am, to be out before Monarch of the Seas was due back into port (if they started their arrival before we departed, we would be stuck).

 

The only thing that really impacted us was that they switched our Sea Day to be Monday instead of Wednesday (a 4-night cruise), and all of our DCL excursions in Nassau would be transferred to Tuesday (from Monday). And also, they couldn't open the ship's stores since we hadn't set sail -- oh well.

 

I'll just say how thankful I am that we didn't set sail. Some of the crew members told us that many passengers were still sea sick from setting sail at 4:30 Monday morning (thankfully, my bonine kept my stomach at bay). It was still quite rocky as we got to open waters, but I'm sure NOTHING like what Freedom must have endured. I have been waiting to get home just so I can find a thread like this, as I knew it must have been insane!

 

Oh the one thing I forgot to mention -- we had one of the directly aft cabins. Thought it would be so cool to have a bit of a larger balcony. My friends and I went out during the storm and it was out of control rain and wind and my friend had a Marilyn Monroe moment with her dress. When MH and I woke up the next morning, we went out on the balcony to find the connecting, locked doors between our balcony and our neighbors (and every other balcony divider on our deck, plus others, I believe) -- the wind whipped the doors off their locking mechanisms and were flapping in the wind, and most of the doors were bent/damaged. Maintenance came and took all of the doors off for repair, but were not able to be repaired before the end of the cruise... so we got to know the cute kids next door, each day, as they came out to check out the view. (Had to make extra special sure to close the curtains each night :p)

[LovesSaltwater]

Hurricane season ends in early December so we should be fine in January. We have sailed lots in December/January and March in the Caribbean and other than some really cold days starting out all has been fine.

We are on the same cruise; have your joined our Roll Call?

Kathy

:)

Tomko2, thanks for the reassuring answer to my question (realizing that there are no guarantees!). Haven't joined the roll call yet. Realize that it would be a hoot to meet some of the nice folks from CC, but we're meeting our (grown up) exchange daughter and large assemblage of her extended family on the ship (many who don't speak English, I think), and figure that will be complicated enough! But we'll see.

[broberts]

After 20 years in the Navy I can safely say you are wrong and its time for you to play with your plastic ships in your tub. With your vast amount of experience at sea, can you explain why all the Navy ships in Norfolk pulled out when that hurricane was moving up the coast?

 

One of the reasons the navy ships left Norfolk when they did was so that they could sail far enough out to avoid the storm or at least the worst of the storm. But you are right, navy ships routinely leave port rather than face bad weather tied up.

 

I'm not sure however that the same dynamics apply to to cruise ships. Cruise ships are massive sails. Modern navy vessels tend to have much lower profiles with significantly less surface area broadside. Naval vessels are designed and rigged for sudden movements. Cruise ships are floating hotels.

 

Ultimately the decision to stay in port or sail should be each captains'. They know their ships and it's their responsibility to insure the safety of their passengers and crew.

 

The fact that some ships stayed in port while Freedom didn't is curious, but there are enough differences in the ships and situations that I suspect only experienced cruise ship officers can judge if less than optimal decisions were made.

[jagsfan]

PH8

Can you tell me which side of the ship got the rain so bad the carpets were soaked.

Was it starboard or port? Or both? I have a vested interest as we're sailing Sunday on the starboard side. I've asked the question several times in various places, but no answer yet.

Lived with moldy carpets after a Disney sailing like the one you just had, and it was horrible for my asthma.

Thanks

[PH8]

PH8

Can you tell me which side of the ship got the rain so bad the carpets were soaked.

Was it starboard or port? Or both? I have a vested interest as we're sailing Sunday on the starboard side. I've asked the question several times in various places, but no answer yet.

Lived with moldy carpets after a Disney sailing like the one you just had, and it was horrible for my asthma.

Thanks

Im not on the FR.......I just quoted a friend who is.....so sorry,can't help ya..

[1cruisedoggie]

I haven't seen any mention of this one fact, every ship that comes and goes, in any port, including Canaveral, has a pitot on it. The pilot works for the port and has extensive knowledge of both the port and the weather conditions that can affect it. It is not only the ships captain that decides if it leaves, but also the pilot. If the pilot doesn't think its Ok, the ship stays put, regardless of what the captain wants. Basically the pilot is in charge of the ship leavinbg until it clears the channel. If the Freedom had stayed tied up to its pier, the motion of the ship would hace caused catastrophic damage to the pier, there are several videos on Youtube showing the damage caused to both the ship, and the pier when lines snap.

[wrp96]

So the Dream made the decision not to go after getting the report from Freedom that conditions were much worse than forecast? So maybe Rccl wasn't so rash in their decision to sail based on what the info available when they left port if Disney planned to sail too

[Desertbelle]

So the Dream made the decision not to go after getting the report from Freedom that conditions were much worse than forecast? So maybe Rccl wasn't so rash in their decision to sail based on what the info available when they left port if Disney planned to sail too

It amazes me how quickly people jump to the "blame game" whenever anything happens that isn't perfect. I can't believe for 1 second that the captain or the pilot or anyone in RCL would choose to take a ship somewhere unsafe. But, these are ships, and weather happens.

 

I say "Good job Captain, you were met with quite extraordinary weather and you brought your ship, crew and passengers through it with minimal damage. Thanks!" It makes me glad I will have a Captain like that when I board the Freedom in a few weeks.

[Momto5]

It amazes me how quickly people jump to the "blame game" whenever anything happens that isn't perfect. I can't believe for 1 second that the captain or the pilot or anyone in RCL would choose to take a ship somewhere unsafe. But, these are ships, and weather happens.

 

I say "Good job Captain, you were met with quite extraordinary weather and you brought your ship, crew and passengers through it with minimal damage. Thanks!" It makes me glad I will have a Captain like that when I board the Freedom in a few weeks.

 

ITA!! Very well put.

 

Armchair quarterbacking is just not productive.

[Mango884942]

Answer: Money.

[Mango884942]

This call was not hindsight. I live on the coast of Brevard County (where the ship departs from and was scheduled to leave on the Monarch of Seas on Monday) Anyone with doppler radar could see that at 7:30 AM a massive band was descending on Brevard County and the port! I left work early and told my homecare nurses to stay off the streets except in emergency situations.......just like I would do with any tropical storm.

On Monday night when we set said on the monarch, the seas were still "rough" (in a nice way) about 8-10 ft until we neared Coco Cay. Still plenty of vomitus for unaccostomed passengers.

 

Another bad decision by RCL.