Italians showing off???

[Quasar1011]

Of course it's a bigoted comment by the OP! I've dealt with his type all my life who throw out inflammatory remarks then stand back and say it's all a misunderstanding. Nonsense! It is what it is . . . bigotry! He said what he wanted to say and smugly denies culpability. Not fooling me fella.

 

There is no bigoted comment in the OP! The only comment in the OP was that of a video being posted. Your issue is obviously with the thread title. But, a question is not a comment. A comment states what its holder believes; a question asks for what you believe. If you don't believe me, here's Webster's definition of "comment":

 

a : an observation or remark expressing an opinion or attitude <critical comments>

 

The OP didn't express an opinion- it asked for yours!

[jersey_boy]

There is no bigoted comment in the OP! The only comment in the OP was that of a video being posted. Your issue is obviously with the thread title. But, a question is not a comment. A comment states what its holder believes; a question asks for what you believe. If you don't believe me, here's Webster's definition of "comment":

 

a : an observation or remark expressing an opinion or attitude <critical comments>

 

The OP didn't express an opinion- it asked for yours!

 

Please don't quote Webster to me. I have a feeling I'm smarter than you anyway. It is was it is . . . a bigoted comment! You are not smart enough or maybe have not ever been on the receiving end of these snide comments so you have no idea.

[bazzaw]

Jersey Boy

 

I have been unusually short -- all my life. Now, I am fat and old and bald and wear glasses - and still short!

 

But I do not have the "sensitivity" about all this that you appear to have about unknown matters.

 

You read too much into things

 

 

Barry

[graceinmelbourne]

There is no bigoted comment in the OP! The only comment in the OP was that of a video being posted. Your issue is obviously with the thread title. But, a question is not a comment. A comment states what its holder believes; a question asks for what you believe. If you don't believe me, here's Webster's definition of "comment":

 

a : an observation or remark expressing an opinion or attitude <critical comments>

 

The OP didn't express an opinion- it asked for yours!

 

You are right. He asked a question not made a statement. He could have worded his title better but what he wrote is not racist or bigoted and if people think that it is then they are being over sensitive. My family is Italian and I am not in the slightest bit offended by what he said. We had an extended family party on the weekend and most of the people were Italian (Italian born) and we were discussing this incident. The Italians at the party were saying that the aftermath of the incident would have been disorganised and chaotic because Italians have a tendancy for this. They also said that the captain was probably trying to impress people by sailing close to the island. . My Mum also watches the Italian news and the general consensus there is yes, the Captain was showing off and trying to impress his friends and crew.

[Quasar1011]

Please don't quote Webster to me. I have a feeling I'm smarter than you anyway. It is was it is . . . a bigoted comment! You are not smart enough or maybe have not ever been on the receiving end of these snide comments so you have no idea.

 

Now look who is being condescending. :rolleyes: That's a main feature of bigotry, by the way.

 

A 2nd by the way: since you are smarter than me, kindly explain what "it is was it is" means...

[hvsteve1]

No Captain would risk his career to 'show off' his cruise ship by traveling close to shore. The ships charts and systems are recorded and those in charge would want some answers if they did get that close to shore. Not to mention the coast guard would do to that Captain.

 

I believe the sounding of the ships horn in the video was to warn smaller boats in the area. This video could be taken because a Costa ship accidentally was too close to shore.

 

From what I've been reading and hearing the past few days, it is inescapable that this, and probably other, captains had a tradition of steering close to the islands. Some local reporters have said they believe it is because some retired ships' captains live in the area and know the captains on the Costa ships. Gentlemancruiser has a good point, assuming the captains in question are acting rationally and with proper care. If I and other CC members can log onto websites and see ship locations and movement in real time, you know that somebody at corporate has the job of keeping tabs on the ships. There are also logs and computer records that probably go to headquarters at various times. Thus, knowing that this reckless movement was not an isolated incident, and that Costa had to know it was going on, the record of this kind of activity being allowed to go on will loom large at future hearings when Costa tries to blame this whole thing on a crazy captain.

[Because123]

The Italians at the party were saying that the aftermath of the incident would have been disorganised and chaotic because Italians have a tendancy for this.

 

That was our observation as well. When we sailed Costsa with a largely Italian group of passengers, I was really surprised at how little regard they had for what we as Americans would consider manners. My Italian friend said that they would regard us as too passive. She said that when they lived in Italy, if you thought you could get to the counter by waiting in line didn't push your way to the front at the post office you'd be standing there all day. She said they aren't trying to be rude - it's just their way.

 

Our children waited in line for a long time on the night of the big festival when they were doing face painting. Just as it was their turn, a woman pushed her way past them and took the spot on the then-opened stool. The crew member, also Italian, asked what she would like. We said, "We've been waiting in line for a very long time and were at the front." The woman said, "I just got up the courage to do this and would like a butterfly here. If I do not do it now I may never do it!" She exposed a little of her... uh... chest and pointed to where she wanted a butterfly painted.

 

She and the face painter began speaking to one another in Italian. She did not move. We heard the word "Americana" several times, and that's when an Italian-American woman in line behind us who spoke Italian went a little ballistic on them. "I understand you. I know everything you just said. You cannot behave that way here. The ship is Italian, but you are on the other side of the world and you are shaming Italy. Do not act like you cannot understand me. I know you speak English. You are shaming Italy, do you understand me???" They argued loudly with no hesitation.

 

It was just very different than I was used to. No holds barred. Very assertive, very confident... very loud. lol

 

The woman from NY found us later and apologized for what we witnessed and said that she knows such behavior is common and accepted in Italy, but that she wishes they would do as Americans expect when they come our direction.

 

It was a cultural education for us, to be certain. And as my friend said, they would consider us way too passive and not likely to get what we want or need because we don't have the 'oomph' to stick our necks out and go for it. She had to make an adjustment herself when she moved from one culture to the other and back again.

 

Stereotypes are often based in at least a grain of reality.

[Aplmac]

"Italians showing off ???"

 

I've read most of the replies by Bazz and it still sounds rascist to me.

Woulda thought Aussies and Italians were both Caucasians, but I could be wrong.. :)

.

[bazzaw]

 

Stereotypes are often based in at least a grain of reality.

 

 

Otherwise "stereotypes" would not exist at all! :)

 

My stereotype fits into the "short, fat and bald" grouping! - Oh - and "Australian" as well!! It's the second one that I hate most!! :)

 

Barry

[graceinmelbourne]

Otherwise "stereotypes" would not exist at all! :)

 

My stereotype fits into the "short, fat and bald" grouping! - Oh - and "Australian" as well!! It's the second one that I hate most!! :)

 

Barry

 

 

Or if we are all being so politically correct it should be - vertically challenged, person of substance and follically challenged :D

[sylmack]

Jersey Boy

 

I have been unusually short -- all my life. Now, I am fat and old and bald and wear glasses - and still short!

 

But I do not have the "sensitivity" about all this that you appear to have about unknown matters.

 

You read too much into things

 

 

Barry

 

 

Maybe one more question mark in the title ?? ;)

[KatetheWanderer]

Costa Cruises confirmed that it had given the captain permission to sail within 500 metres of Giglio last August on the occasion of the island’s saint’s day, but not last Friday. Islanders say it was common practice for cruise ships to come close to “salute” Giglio. Prosecutors said they were investigating the entire chain of command to determine how and why the Concordia ran aground.

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/aa3ab980-4126-11e1-936b-00144feab49a.html?ftcamp=rss#axzz1jm7eSO2k

 

Link is to a Travel and Leisure Article, January 17, 2012, but I am not sure if it works.

[gentlemancruiser]

From what I've been reading and hearing the past few days, it is inescapable that this, and probably other, captains had a tradition of steering close to the islands. Some local reporters have said they believe it is because some retired ships' captains live in the area and know the captains on the Costa ships. Gentlemancruiser has a good point, assuming the captains in question are acting rationally and with proper care. If I and other CC members can log onto websites and see ship locations and movement in real time, you know that somebody at corporate has the job of keeping tabs on the ships. There are also logs and computer records that probably go to headquarters at various times. Thus, knowing that this reckless movement was not an isolated incident, and that Costa had to know it was going on, the record of this kind of activity being allowed to go on will loom large at future hearings when Costa tries to blame this whole thing on a crazy captain.

 

I'm still scratching my head at the actions of this Captain and his totally poor judgement. It was like Macbeth - great feeling of power and ineffability, then suddenly everything goes horribly wrong and he cannot face that he is not the person he thought/pretended he was. He must be in denial to preserve himself. To have stumbled in front of your mentor with the stakes being so high, surely there must be some serious psychological turmoil. What shame!!! Then knowing that your inability to take appropriate action cost people their lives!!! I wouldn't be surprised if he tried to take his own life.

 

I also think in the coming days that we may also gain some real insight into the culture of Costa Cruises. I work in the HR and I know that sometime these 'bad apples' get to where they are because others look the other way or cannot confront the really 'bad apples'.

 

If the current media reports are right and this Captain did contact the Director of Marine Operations and then Costa didn't issue the necessary steps such as a Mayday it will be difficult for Costa to keep passengers & the public confidence. I know I would think twice before taking a cruise with Costa.

[Wanderfully]

It seems to me, from all that is being said all over the internet, that cruising close to the shore, in many cases, may not be such an exception to the rule. It may be a kind of ritual in MANY areas near cruise ship lanes where the Captain will take a ship out of the lane, at their discretion, for a "bow" or to show scenery to the passengers... I think we will find that that practice now comes to a rather quick halt, especially in light of the fact that the beautiful island of Giglio may now be surrounded by an ecological disaster....

[cubella59]

Quasar, is there a way of tracking teh previous week's sailing to the Jan 6 one?

 

That map does not match the map from USA today, which shows an even closer approach to Giglio:

[kobecat]

Hi Barry, I have been watching this thread with much amusement (not that there is anything amusing about this tragedy, the whole episode is shocking).

 

It would appear that as well as some nations not paying their workers a wage they can live on and thus forcing their citizens to take Tipping 101 in school and make it into "art form", they are also extremely sensitive.

 

I agree with your original assessment, and it appears the facts support this as well.

 

OK he was one Italian only, showing off to a whole bunch of Italians on shore. If it had happened in Australian waters (perish the thought) I would not have been offended for one second if someone had written "Australians showing off". I could only have agreed and been cross at my fellow citizens being an embarrassment and playing a part in a totally avoidable tragedy.

 

Lighten up people; it would appear you have every right to be angry at the Captain because regardless of whether he was Italian, English, Australian or American, his performance was sub-standard, his integrity totally missing and people have died because of this.

 

Beryl

[tksail]

I'm still scratching my head at the actions of this Captain and his totally poor judgement. It was like Macbeth - great feeling of power and ineffability, then suddenly everything goes horribly wrong and he cannot face that he is not the person he thought/pretended he was. He must be in denial to preserve himself. To have stumbled in front of your mentor with the stakes being so high, surely there must be some serious psychological turmoil. What shame!!! Then knowing that your inability to take appropriate action cost people their lives!!!

A good analogy...

[Starrgazer50]

I'm still scratching my head at the actions of this Captain and his totally poor judgement. It was like Macbeth - great feeling of power and ineffability, then suddenly everything goes horribly wrong and he cannot face that he is not the person he thought/pretended he was. He must be in denial to preserve himself. To have stumbled in front of your mentor with the stakes being so high, surely there must be some serious psychological turmoil. What shame!!! Then knowing that your inability to take appropriate action cost people their lives!!! I wouldn't be surprised if he tried to take his own life.

 

I also think in the coming days that we may also gain some real insight into the culture of Costa Cruises. I work in the HR and I know that sometime these 'bad apples' get to where they are because others look the other way or cannot confront the really 'bad apples'.

 

If the current media reports are right and this Captain did contact the Director of Marine Operations and then Costa didn't issue the necessary steps such as a Mayday it will be difficult for Costa to keep passengers & the public confidence. I know I would think twice before taking a cruise with Costa.

I hope he doesn't try to take his own life. :( I'm pissed off and upset, but I wouldn't want to hear of that. We all have things in our lives that we wish we could do over again the right way. There is something called forgiveness.

[H82seaUgo]

I hope he doesn't try to take his own life. :( .

 

that's exactly the action dw said to me this morning that he would take.

 

bruce ismay 100 years later.

[Starrgazer50]

that's exactly the action dw said to me this morning that he would take.

 

bruce ismay 100 years later.

 

Tough thing. He could've stayed on the ship with the possibility of surviving and just taking the brunt for making a devastating decision, but now if he kills himself he still looks bad and leaves behind an even worse legacy to his family of bailing once again. They will never live it down. I hope he stays around and faces the charges for his decision to gain his respect back to his family and those who's lives were devasted by his decision. God bless everyone involved.

[lolane1]

You are right. He asked a question not made a statement. He could have worded his title better but what he wrote is not racist or bigoted and if people think that it is then they are being over sensitive. My family is Italian and I am not in the slightest bit offended by what he said. We had an extended family party on the weekend and most of the people were Italian (Italian born) and we were discussing this incident. The Italians at the party were saying that the aftermath of the incident would have been disorganised and chaotic because Italians have a tendancy for this. They also said that the captain was probably trying to impress people by sailing close to the island. . My Mum also watches the Italian news and the general consensus there is yes, the Captain was showing off and trying to impress his friends and crew.

 

Just reading the New York Times and I quote: "Francesco Schettino, 52, apparently tried to show off the gleaming $459 million vessel to residents of this island...." So, the Times agrees. Crew members have reportedly said that Schettino drives the ship like a Ferrai. However, the use of the plural, Italians, can be taken as offensive. And as such, just shows the lack of sensitivity of the OP.

And by the way, aren't we all guilty of showing off something or another at least once (once, is tongue in cheek) in our lives? It is not just Italians.

[USNUZULOOSE]

I'm still scratching my head at the actions of this Captain and his totally poor judgement. It was like Macbeth - great feeling of power and ineffability, then suddenly everything goes horribly wrong and he cannot face that he is not the person he thought/pretended he was. He must be in denial to preserve himself. To have stumbled in front of your mentor with the stakes being so high, surely there must be some serious psychological turmoil. What shame!!! Then knowing that your inability to take appropriate action cost people their lives!!! I wouldn't be surprised if he tried to take his own life.

 

I also think in the coming days that we may also gain some real insight into the culture of Costa Cruises. I work in the HR and I know that sometime these 'bad apples' get to where they are because others look the other way or cannot confront the really 'bad apples'.

 

If the current media reports are right and this Captain did contact the Director of Marine Operations and then Costa didn't issue the necessary steps such as a Mayday it will be difficult for Costa to keep passengers & the public confidence. I know I would think twice before taking a cruise with Costa.

 

My thoughts exactly, he was on the phone with HQ, worrying about his job, why did HQ not send out a mayday, and then question him of not doing so. I think Costa should be charged with something as well.

[Aussie Gal]

We use the term "showing off" a lot here in Australia. We first start using it a school when one child behaves a little differently from everyone else. We often use it affectionately so perhaps it is used here in a completely different way to how other people from other nations use it.

 

Anyhow, Barry was correct in using it to describe the Captain as here is a report which shows he wasn't even using his instruments when steering the ship close to the island.

 

http://www.guardian.co.uk./world/2012/jan/18/costa-concordia-captain-tripped-lifeboat

 

Jennie

[Quasar1011]

My thoughts exactly, he was on the phone with HQ, worrying about his job, why did HQ not send out a mayday, and then question him of not doing so. I think Costa should be charged with something as well.

 

Considering that the Italian police have seized the cell phone transcripts,

whomever Schettino was talking with at Costa may be liable as well. Time will tell.

[Aussie Gal]

Here is a newspaper article that was in a British paper and it shows that another Captain more or less took charge whilst Schettino seemed to mess around.

 

http://www.guardian.co.uk./world/2012/jan/18/costa-concordia-captain-tripped-lifeboat

 

Jennie