Scary cruising - 60 Minutes Australia

[Monsoonalblue]

On tonights 60 Minutes Australia they mentioned a young woman on a Disney ship vanished into thin air (most likely overboard). Her disappearance was not investigated by American police or Scotland yard (her birth country), instead a lone policeman from the country the ship is registered in (I think they said Bahamas), flew to America , but didn't conduct a "normal" investigation. They said on the program that a person goes overboard every two weeks on cruise ships around the world ( either voluntarily or not). Another young woman (crew), vanished on a well known ship in Alaska - her parents were not notified until the end of the cruise. In both cases, the parents were of the opinion that the cruise lines "wanted it and them and their situation to go away quickly".

 

The program went on to mention " the high number of sexual assaults" on women in their cabins by crew. In one instance a fifteen year old asleep in her mothers cabin was sexually assaulted by a crew member and the ship did nothing to find the perpetrator.

 

The whole gist of the program was- if you are a victim of crime on a cruise ship in international waters, any investigations into that crime is carried out by the country the ship is registered in ( bad luck if it is third world)and that the

ship is in essence"lawless" and most cruisers were innocent of this fact.

 

I don't have a lot of experience like most people on this board ( I have cruised twice starting last year clocking up only 31 days on HAL) - loved it so much, but have to admit the whole angle of 60 Minutes tonight spooked me.

 

60 Minutes is normally a program with serious credible journalists - I don't know why they would target the cruise ship industry if there genuinely wasn't a issue - or maybe it is just "propaganda" and I am naive. I realize crime doesn't stop on holidays - it's just what happens after a crime that's bothering me.

 

Sorry for rambling, any comments may help put this in perspective- Many thanks:o

[jtl513]

Cruise ships are a microcosm of society, and there are many places in the world where crimes are poorly investigated or hushed-up by authorities. On a HAL ship I feel safer than I have many other places where I've been in my life! :)

[Monsoonalblue]

Cruise ships are a microcosm of society, and there are many places in the world where crimes are poorly investigated or hushed-up by authorities. On a HAL ship I feel safer than I have many other places where I've been in my life! :)

 

Thanks for your reply- Im happy that I never felt unsafe on HAL or sensed any "seedy" under currents. I can't remember if the door to the suite had an additional locking mechanism that can be engaged from the inside like hotel rooms - my DH says that it did - I will take more notice next time for sure. I was really shocked after watching that program, but on reflection, I guess with hundreds of people in one place it's probably logical that someone may "not be quite right" and to always be aware of personal security - thanks again:)

[jtl513]

I can't remember if the door to the suite had an additional locking mechanism that can be engaged from the inside like hotel rooms - my DH says that it did - I will take more notice next time for sure.

Even on the newest HAL ships (the Signatures) there are no security chains or those equivalent swinging lock gates that you see in most hotel rooms, but there is a dead bolt that prevents access by a key or key card.

[kazu]

Thanks for your reply- Im happy that I never felt unsafe on HAL or sensed any "seedy" under currents. I can't remember if the door to the suite had an additional locking mechanism that can be engaged from the inside like hotel rooms - my DH says that it did - I will take more notice next time for sure. I was really shocked after watching that program, but on reflection, I guess with hundreds of people in one place it's probably logical that someone may "not be quite right" and to always be aware of personal security - thanks again:)

 

 

I don't know if this puts your mind at ease or not - but I remember a similar show a year or so ago - there were two cruise lines focussed on - Carnival and NCL. Supposedly drinking played a role in some of the crimes.

 

I've never been concerned on HAL at all. One time when we were sailing NCL a friend was enjoying her lounger and fell asleep on the promenade deck - she was awakened by a security guard and WARNED not to stay out at night alone after a certain time. In fairness, this was a few years ago but it is a very true story. (btw - my friend wasn't a drinker).

 

I've never had a second's worry on HAL nor seen anything untowards or heard of anything.

[IRL_Joanie]

Before becoming to alarmed, I researched a few links mentioned by other, more experienced Cruise Critic members a couple of years ago, after someone else brought up their concerns over a media accounting such as CBS's 60 Minutes.

 

What I found were a couple of places on the internet that relieved my mind to those concerns.

 

They are

 

International Centre for Cruise Research: cruiseresearch dot org

 

Another Great site, though sometimes it takes them a little while to update some incidents and illnesses is one that I am a bit concerned about mentioning by name, so I will just state that you can do a search for it under the following in Google: EVENTS AT SEA

 

Hope these sites help alleviate your mind.

 

One thing ot keep in mind at all times when the Media makes claims is that they are there to make news. It use to be that the media was there to provide news coverage. Now a days though, they tend to blow the news out of proportion and scare the bejesus out of us:(

 

Joanie

[Cruising-along]

Even on the newest HAL ships (the Signatures) there are no security chains or those equivalent swinging lock gates that you see in most hotel rooms, but there is a dead bolt that prevents access by a key or key card.

 

We always engage the dead bolt when we're in our cabin for more than a few minutes, but not because we're uneasy about security on HAL. We do it because there have been a few times when our steward walked in before we could answer the door. :eek::eek: Some of them tend to knock and enter. :)

[irvington]

Well, Captain Schettino fell overboard so it could happen to anyone.

 

Seriously, I read the news stories about the lack of notification and investigation when they happened in reputable newspapers and the like. It didn't make me any more concerned to go on a cruise, since I got the sense that most of these overboard situations involve domestic violence, overdrinking or suicide. On the other hand, I feel very bad for these families who don't have a prompt and professional education done. And I believe that this may sometimes be the case.

[quanta88]

On tonights 60 Minutes Australia they mentioned a young woman on a Disney ship vanished into thin air (most likely overboard).

 

They must be referring to the incident in March 2011 on the Disney Wonder. A passenger also disappeared on the Oosterdam last July off the coast of Alaska.

 

Her disappearance was not investigated by American police or Scotland yard (her birth country), instead a lone policeman from the country the ship is registered in (I think they said Bahamas)

 

FWIW, HAL doesn't fly a "flag of convenience"; it flies the flag of the Netherlands. The ship is governed by Dutch law when in international waters.

 

That said, a law was passed in 2011 where if a US citizen disappears on any cruise ship, the FBI now has jurisdiction.

 

a person goes overboard every two weeks on cruise ships around the world ( either voluntarily or not).

 

Admittedly, those are really good odds, considering the hundreds of thousands of passengers and crew out at sea in the world every day of the week.

[jtl513]

They said on the program that a person goes overboard every two weeks on cruise ships around the world ( either voluntarily or not).

I got the sense that most of these overboard situations involve domestic violence, overdrinking or suicide.

According to THIS TABLE there have been 135 overboards reported in the years from 2005 through 2011. (The table starts in 2000, but the reports are sparse in those earlier years so I omitted them.) Of those 135, 34 (25%) have been on Carnival ships. I leave you to jump to your own conclusions! :D

[serendipity1499]

Cruise ships are a microcosm of society, and there are many places in the world where crimes are poorly investigated or hushed-up by authorities. On a HAL ship I feel safer than I have many other places where I've been in my life! :)

 

They must be referring to the incident in March 2011 on the Disney Wonder. A passenger also disappeared on the Oosterdam last July off the coast of Alaska.

 

I too feel safe on HAL but I also take some precautions.. When we cruise with Friends, sometimes I'll go with them to the casino while DH retires to our cabin...After I've spent my budget for the night I'll often go back to our cabin alone.. I'm always alert & walk quite fast..

Several years ago this was brought up on another thread..I downloaded Copper10-8's post on that thread:

http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?p=24636284&posted=1#post24636284

BTW Copper10-8 was an Officer in California & after he retired he joined HAL's Security Dept. This is his answer to a safety at sea question: .

 

 

QUOTE

Originally Posted by 78232

Has anyone ever experienced an unsafe or frightening incident while walking down the corridors among the cabins? I am trying to determine how much freedom to allow a teenage grandaughter.

Thanks

Marcia

 

The answer to your question is No, I haven't. However, it pays to have a sit down chat with your teenage grandaughter before you set foot on your ship. I would imagine, by you posing this question, that talk has already taken place in "real life" (on shore). Give her some ground rules as to what to do if, in the unlikely event, she finds herself in an "uncomfortable" situation by herself onboard a ship.

 

If in a corridor, have her start yelling for help, loud, plus start pounding on cabin doors, loud! Show her where the manual pull fire alarms on the walls are located, to be used only in an emergency. When in the ship's elevators, show her where the intercom or telephone is located (both go directly to the officer of the watch, on the bridge 24 hrs a day). On any "house phone" on the ship, just like on land, dialing 911 gets you assistance.

 

Make sure she understands not to go up on Sports (on the Vista's) and/or Sky (on the other ships) Deck (the very top deck, outside forward, by the ship's mast) late at night by herself! It's dark up there plus extra curricular activity has been known to go on out there. For that matter, the "Oasis" teens area at the rear top deck also can get very quiet at night

 

Like others are saying, the HAL ships are not known as the party ships, and the type of incidents you are worried about do not happen 99.9% of the time. It always pays to be prepared however! Have a plan! Enjoy your cruise! UNQUOTE

On the same thread another poster said that she always gave her teenager the run of the ship..

I was flabbergasted & this is part of my post:

Quote IMO a must read Paperback book for Passengers especially Parents/Grandparents would be "Unsafe on the High Seas" by Charles R. Lipcon, a veteran maritime attorney from Miami...He's been practicing law since the cruise industry started up..Mr. Lipcon says a "cruise ship is not a play land for children" & the "number one crime on Cruise Ships is sexual assault"..... He states that there were 206 reported crimes between 2003 & 2006..Of these 86% were sexual assaults & the majority of crimes are committed by crewmen assaulting passengers.. Many crimes are unreported & can't be prosecuted by Land based authorities, only because ships Officers want to get rid of the person (passenger or crew) who committed the crime..They are often disembarked at the next port of call & sent home...This book is actually a guide to a safer cruise & has excellent advice to help you protect yourself & your family while on a cruise.. Unquote

After I read this book I've become more aware of my surroundings:

Another thing which I don't understand is the number of Parents/Grandparents who would leave their children on board in the ships kids program while they are out on tour..What happens if there is a major problem & they can't get back to the ship..Their Kids would sail without them..I would be frantic..

Happy Easter Everyone....:)Betty

[PathfinderEss]

Thanks Betty for reposting the comments that Copper had made. Something that all passengers with children should be aware of when they turn their children loose on the ship.

[Freebythesea]

Last year we went on our first cruise. It was a to the Mexican Riviera with HAL. We met a charming man at dinner who was traveling with his elderly mom. We agreed to meet to see the stars (which he told us about) on the sports deck.

 

When we got up there he covered all the lights so we could see them better. All was fine and dandy until he started to turn the conversation to how no one comes up here this late, and how it is so cool that no one knows that we were even there. He kept going on about that and I just started to get this creepy feeling (red flag) that we weren't safe (I am typically not a paranoid person). I piped in right away and said that I had become friendly with this one steward as it was both our first cruise and told him we would be there tonight. He started to question me about that and I just kept spinning the yarn, but I felt very vulnerable.

 

Soon after that I told my husband I was really tired and would he walk me back.

 

Who knows, maybe I was just "paranoid" but after reading the article I am glad I did what I did.

[sunviking90]

I feel fairly safe on ships, but only because I don't put myself on dangerous situations. We don't drink, I don't wander around on deck in the dark, and I keep my guard up as much as I would anywhere I happened to be with 2000 strangers. I don't consider a ship a safe bubble from the outside world.

 

My biggest concerns are always the children we see running around free. I don't understand why parents assume their children are 100% safe on the ship. The last time my son participated in the childrens' program was when he was 12, and he was mortified that he was the only one in the group (10-12 year olds) who needed to be signed out by a parent. All the other kids were free to go on their own when the session ended. My son wasn't happy about this, be we didn't back down.

 

On one cruise about 13 years ago my sister and I were in the casino (my son was asleep in the cabin with my husband) and there were children in their pajamas at the door to the casino saying they were looking for their parents! I can only assume these kids were left alone in the cabin. I just don't understand people.

[igraf]

So very true. I would take that story with a grain of salt.

 

igraf

 

 

 

 

...One thing ot keep in mind at all times when the Media makes claims is that they are there to make news. It use to be that the media was there to provide news coverage. Now a days though, they tend to blow the news out of proportion and scare the bejesus out of us:(

 

Joanie

[bishop84]

Before becoming to alarmed, I researched a few links mentioned by other, more experienced Cruise Critic members a couple of years ago, after someone else brought up their concerns over a media accounting such as CBS's 60 Minutes.

 

What I found were a couple of places on the internet that relieved my mind to those concerns.

 

They are

 

International Centre for Cruise Research: cruiseresearch dot org

 

Another Great site, though sometimes it takes them a little while to update some incidents and illnesses is one that I am a bit concerned about mentioning by name, so I will just state that you can do a search for it under the following in Google: EVENTS AT SEA

 

Hope these sites help alleviate your mind.

 

One thing ot keep in mind at all times when the Media makes claims is that they are there to make news. It use to be that the media was there to provide news coverage. Now a days though, they tend to blow the news out of proportion and scare the bejesus out of us:(

 

Joanie

 

Hi Joanie,

Both sites belong or are operated by the same person, Prof. Ross Klien. If you need a negative view of the cruise industry for any reason then he is your man!

[PatsyAnne]

On any of these scare stories, I remember that the news media's job is to worry me to keep me watching, and my job is to know where the off button is. Learn (and verify) that which is useful to you, and then watch "Doc Martin" or the birds in the back yard, or if you're lucky, the ocean.

 

I like Copper 10's advice posted earlier in this thread. He shows a lot of experience and common sense.

[Cqis]

Now I am a little worried, and will have to rethink my actions. My DSO shaves with this smelly stuff. Until the smell is out of the cabin I go somewhere. I was by the pool on a lounge car at night. I fell asleep when I woke a crew member had covered me with a towel because it was cool. This made me feel comfortable and I never ever thought about "what if".This was a HAL cruise.

[KAKcruiser]

I've wandered around the inside of the ship very late at night by myself and never felt unsafe. There were very few people around. I don't think I would have gone outside, though.

[FrankNJ]

" I leave you to jump to your own conclusions!"

 

Just be careful when you jump.

[Monsoonalblue]

Thank you for your comments - I feel quite silly for getting "carried away" with the programs hype. More and more Aussies are cruising, hopefully they read this thread if they were concerned like me and regain perspective- thank you and Happy Easter.

[andyandsue]

Last summer on NCL there was a couple in the room next to us who fought all night the first night of our cruise. Obviously alcohol fueled with lots of yelling, we could hear the entire argument, as did our kids, and it wasn't pretty. We called security and they finally stopped. While I wasn't scared, it made me feel slightly uneasy. Hoping to not repeat that experience.

[Boatdrill]

 

60 Minutes is normally a program with serious credible journalists.

 

Really ?

[Boytjie]

I've wandered around the inside of the ship very late at night by myself and never felt unsafe. There were very few people around. I don't think I would have gone outside, though.

 

I have wandered about ships I (inside and outside) in the middle of the night and never felt unsafe. Then again, I am a big guy :)

[kobecat]

Really ?

 

Australia has its 'own' 60 Minutes. I agree with the OPs post. I have seen excerpts from the US 60 Minutes and thought it was rubbish. Ours is not.

 

Beryl