Passenger Vessel Services Act (PSVA Act) - Which combination?

[Wilde_37]

Hi

 

I'd appreciate anyone's read on the following combination of cruises in relation to the PSVA Act:

 

Thinking of doing either of the following cruise combinations:

OPTION 1

Cruise 1 – September 13th – celebrity Solstice - 10 night Wine Cruise - Seattle to Ensenada

Cruise 2 – September 23rd – celebrity Solstice – 11 night Hawaii Cruise – Ensenada to Honolulu.

Our preference would be to do both on the Solstice but I think there might be a difficulty with the Passenger Vessel Services Act (PSVA Act) on this one – the first cruise starts in Seattle and ends in Ensenada and the second cruise starts in Ensenada and finishes in Hawaii. But because it is a back to back it may not be allowed.

OPTION 2

Cruise 1 – September 13th – Celebrity Millennium – 9 Night Wine & Americas Cup – Vancouver to San Diego.

Cruise 2 – September 23rd – Celebrity Solstice – 11 night Hawaii Cruise – Ensenada to Honolulu.

As we start in Canada and end in San Diego then the following day we start in Ensenada and end in Hawaii, I do not think there would be any difficulty with the PSVA Act. Two different ships and a day's break between.

 

[cruisestitch]

Option 2 looks good, with no potential impediments.

 

Option 1 is iffy.

[BaumD]

Option 1 would be a problem if they catch it.

 

Option 2 should not be a problem for several reasons. Different ships, one day between and you don't start in the USA. Any of these reasons would negate the PVSA

[Wilde_37]

Option 1 would be a problem if they catch it.

 

Option 2 should not be a problem for several reasons. Different ships, one day between and you don't start in the USA. Any of these reasons would negate the PVSA

 

 

Thanks, I was hoping option 1 would be possible but I suspect it would have to be option 2. Thanks for the swift replies.

[constantcruiser]

There is a lengthy conversation about this on the roll call for the Solstice Honolulu-to-Ensenada cruise in spring 2013. Many wanted to continue on the West Coast segment, which sails from Ensenada to Seattle. But X won't allow us to book that combination because it means starting and ending in two different U.S. cities without visiting a distant foreign port (and Ensenada doesn't qualify).

[Twickenham]

OPTION 1

 

Cruise 1 – September 13th – celebrity Solstice - 10 night Wine Cruise - Seattle to Ensenada

Cruise 2 – September 23rd – celebrity Solstice – 11 night Hawaii Cruise – Ensenada to Honolulu.

 

 

 

There's a reason why this is divided into 2 different cruises, with the break in Ensenada - and it's the PVSA. As Ensenada is only a near foreign port, this is a total no-go.

 

 

 

OPTION 2

 

Cruise 1 – September 13th – Celebrity Millennium – 9 Night Wine & Americas Cup – Vancouver to San Diego.

Cruise 2 – September 23rd – Celebrity Solstice – 11 night Hawaii Cruise – Ensenada to Honolulu.

 

This, however, as it begins in a non-US port, i.e., Vancouver, is fully PVSA-compliant.

[hobo1937]

Jennie from Australia has been posting on the thread Poll: Ensenada Bus to San Diego that there is a travel agent in Australia that is advertising a HNL-SEA b2b2b. She evidently called Celebrity's Australia office and they told her the cruise was available to book in their system but they were going to talk to Miami to confirm it.

[DAllenTCY]

Aussies can do it, US citizens may not.....no matter the TA.

David

[nenasmum]

H- Jennie here. I am still waiting to hear back form Celebrity in the US re the viability of this tour. It is the first I have heard that the PSVA Act only applied to US citizens. At the moment I would need that in writing and even then I am thinking of moving to your option 2 as I don't want to be stuck trying to explain some obscure legal loophole to Mexican Customs. I would like it confirmed as if it is not correct that it is possble for Australians, I would like to raise it with the agent and with Celebrity Australia. Jennie

[mlkitt3]

Posted wrong place sorry

[MicCanberra]

H- Jennie here. I am still waiting to hear back form Celebrity in the US re the viability of this tour. It is the first I have heard that the PSVA Act only applied to US citizens. At the moment I would need that in writing and even then I am thinking of moving to your option 2 as I don't want to be stuck trying to explain some obscure legal loophole to Mexican Customs. I would like it confirmed as if it is not correct that it is possble for Australians, I would like to raise it with the agent and with Celebrity Australia. Jennie

I too am interested in the results.

I am currently booked on the Ensenada to Honolulu and then to Sydney (B2B cruise). I looked at the September 13th – celebrity Solstice - 10 night Wine Cruise - Seattle to Ensenada as well.

However, several people on the roll call for the Ensenada cruise have been told to cancel one cruise or the other due to the PVSA. They are Americans but after reading the Act, I cannot find where it says it is only for Americans and not everyone.:D

[3418ahl]

As far as I know, the PVSA does not apply to just Americans. I believe that someone from Australia or perhaps Great Britain, booked this b2b and cancelled after calling Celebrity herself and finding out she could not do it. I just don't remember which board or roll call I saw this on. We have been booked from NZ to Seattle for quite some time and I have been keeping close watch on everything to do with Ensenada, etc.

[MicCanberra]

As far as I know, the PVSA does not apply to just Americans. I believe that someone from Australia or perhaps Great Britain, booked this b2b and cancelled after calling Celebrity herself and finding out she could not do it. I just don't remember which board or roll call I saw this on. We have been booked from NZ to Seattle for quite some time and I have been keeping close watch on everything to do with Ensenada, etc.

That was the impression I got as well. It is to do with passengers on non US ships going between two differing US ports.:D

[Cruise Junky]

Aussies can do it, US citizens may not.....no matter the TA.

David

 

Sorry, not so. The PVSA applies to everyone, not just US Citizens.

[rholbrook]

We were on the Hawaii to Ensenda cruise a few years ago. At that time the passengers that were doing the B2B going north were allowed to stay on ship, so it must not have been a problem with the act at that point in time. Enjoy your cruises.

[fleckle]

Sorry, not so. The PVSA applies to everyone, not just US Citizens.

The way it was explained to us too. The restriction is on the "vessel" (the ship), not the passenger. The vessel is prohibited from transporting passengers between two different US ports under the various restrictions that apply.

[fleckle]

We were on the Hawaii to Ensenda cruise a few years ago. At that time the passengers that were doing the B2B going north were allowed to stay on ship, so it must not have been a problem with the act at that point in time. Enjoy your cruises.

Did the cruise going north disembark in Seattle or Vancouver?

 

That would make a big difference.

The PVSA is much, much older than just a few years. :)

[cruisestitch]

From Wikipedia:

 

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

See also: Merchant Marine Act of 1920 (Jones Act) regarding cargo vessels

The Passenger Vessel Services Act of 1886 (sometimes abbreviated to PVSA, Passenger Services Act, or PSA) is a piece of United States legislation which came into force in 1886 relating to cabotage. Essentially, it says:

No foreign vessels shall transport passengers between ports or places in the United States, either directly or by way of a foreign port, under a penalty of $200 (now $300) for each passenger so transported and landed.

Any vessel subject to the Merchant Marine Act of 1920 counts as a U.S. vessel. Under the Passenger Vessel Services Act of 1886 (46 U.S.C. § 55103), foreign-flagged vessels cannot transport passengers directly between U.S. ports. The handful of U.S.-flagged cruise ships in operation are registered in the U.S. to permit cruises between the Hawaiian Islands, or from the continental U.S. to Hawaii. The Passenger Vessel Services Act, however, does not prohibit foreign-flagged ships departing from and returning to the same U.S. port or foreign-flagged ships departing from a U.S. port, visiting a foreign port, and then continuing to a second U.S. port. However, in order to embark in a U.S. port and disembark in a second U.S. port, the vessel must visit a distant foreign port outside of North America (Central America, Bermuda. the Bahamas, and all of the Caribbean except Aruba, Bonaire, and Curaçao, count as part of North America). It does not prevent a ship from taking on passengers at a U.S. port and then returning them to another U.S. city by ground or air, or vice versa, as long as the cruise ship returns to its departing point without stopping (a "cruise to nowhere"), or stops in at least one foreign port.

In accordance with this law, Cruise lines that operate foreign-flagged vessels are fined $300 for each passenger who boarded such a vessel in one U.S. port and left the vessel at another port. The cruise lines typically pass this cost on the passengers who "jump the ship". Exemptions are available in the case of family emergencies etc.[1]

[MicCanberra]

We were on the Hawaii to Ensenda cruise a few years ago. At that time the passengers that were doing the B2B going north were allowed to stay on ship, so it must not have been a problem with the act at that point in time. Enjoy your cruises.

 

The cruise must have been going onto Vancouver or it would have been in breach. :D

[3418ahl]

We were on the Hawaii to Ensenda cruise a few years ago. At that time the passengers that were doing the B2B going north were allowed to stay on ship, so it must not have been a problem with the act at that point in time. Enjoy your cruises.

 

I really don't know how you would have known where those passengers embarked. They could have been doing 2,3 or more b2bs and may very well have gotten on in, or visited, some "distant foreign port".

[Cruise Junky]

We were on the Hawaii to Ensenda cruise a few years ago. At that time the passengers that were doing the B2B going north were allowed to stay on ship, so it must not have been a problem with the act at that point in time. Enjoy your cruises.

 

Nothing prohibits them going North, Vancouver is perfectly fine. Seattle is a problem.

[Wilde_37]

Hi

 

OPTION 1

 

Cruise 1 – September 13th – celebrity Solstice - 10 night Wine Cruise - Seattle to Ensenada

Cruise 2 – September 23rd – celebrity Solstice – 11 night Hawaii Cruise – Ensenada to Honolulu.

 

 

 

OPTION 2

 

Cruise 1 – September 13th – Celebrity Millennium – 9 Night Wine & Americas Cup – Vancouver to San Diego.

Cruise 2 – September 23rd – Celebrity Solstice – 11 night Hawaii Cruise – Ensenada to Honolulu.

 

 

 

Celebrity just confirmed that Option 1 is a non-runner as it violates the PVSA Act. They also confirmed that Option 2 is fine.

[hypercafe]

I really do not think as a pss you have to worry about it at all. This is a act/law that the cruise line must follow. As happened above they will not violate it as there is fines placed on them, not you.

[3418ahl]

I really do not think as a pss you have to worry about it at all. This is a act/law that the cruise line must follow. As happened above they will not violate it as there is fines placed on them, not you.

 

This may be true, but I would rather think about it before hand than find out maybe months after I book my cruise that the line was cancelling it, or perhaps even be turned away when boarding! Who knows....

[Gonzo70]

I really do not think as a pss you have to worry about it at all. This is a act/law that the cruise line must follow. As happened above they will not violate it as there is fines placed on them, not you.

 

While technically the cruise line is fined, it is good for the passenger to worry about it as well as occasionally the cruise line accidentally allows illegal itineraries to be booked and down the road realizes the mistake. The passenger is then made to cancel one of the legs - possibly on short notice.