Passenger overboard on Allure yesterday! (9/16/12)

[Desertbelle]

I am a 5'1" tall woman and the railings on ships come up to my armpits! There is no possible way I could "fail" over the railing, and there would have to be a lot more wind than that which blows through the cabin with the doors open to sweep me up and over the railing. Under no common or realistic conditions could a person standing on their own two legs on the deck fail over the railing.

There is a novel, I forget the name if it, where a husband drops his cabin key on the deck, leans over to get the keys and instead grabs his wife's ankles and dumps her over the railing of a cruise ship and into the ocean. My husband and I have tried (of course not seriously) to test this out and there is no way under normal conditions that this could be done without a good deal of screaming and struggling, if at all. The railing would need to be down around someone's hips to achieve the angle needed to just lift and tip them over the side....or blow them over.

This young woman would have had to be sitting on the railing to fall (which would involve her climbing up there) or she climbed up there with the purpose of jumping. I know that for some people it's easier to think it was an accident than to think someone could be so depressed as to jump on purpose, but these things happen. Suicide is not uncommon.

[golfer1966]

[quote name='Sinppu']"Accidents" do not happen in these cases.
Do NOT sit on or climb the rails.

It is sad indeed.[/quote]


Its impossible to just fall overboard. I see people sitting on rails too...

Prayers to the family !

[Desertbelle]

[quote name='golfer1966']Its impossible to just fall overboard. I see people sitting on rails too...

Prayers to the family ![/QUOTE]

Oh my goodness, I have never seen anyone sitting on the railing, that would scare me to near death...I would probably scream at them!

[wolfganghowell]

Mr Wolf is 6'5 and he would have to put considerable effort into going over the balcony. Sadly there are assumptions to be made. I found it of note that a 21 yo would normally be in college this time of year. So this young woman was not in college due to academic, economic or personal choice. Yes I realize not everyone goes to college but right or wrong, this led me to think there could have been issues in her life. Sadly it doesn't change the outcome. Sympathies to her family and friends and sympathy to the Allure passengers and crew.

[akcruz]

[quote name='cherylroslyn']I have a daughter exactly that age. The chances of a girl that age climbing up on the railing of her balcony after dinner in the darkness to "see something" are 1 in a million. Maybe you don't have girls or maybe you don't have kids that age....but a 21 year old girl climbing up in the dark onto her balcony to "see something"........ please don't make us feel bad for speaking in a very polite way about a very sad thing. No one is disparaging her or judging.

Common sense given the surounding circumstances leads most to one conclusion. And sometimes the "happiest people in the world" as you say, make a rash decision that has monumental consequences........especially when they are young and emotional.[/quote]

Actually my daughter is 22 and while she would not be sitting on the railings I know many her age that would.

[pthree]

I find it strange that by opening the door a person can be blown off of the balcony. The balcony would have had to been knee level and the winds pretty strong for something like this to happen. I am 5'8 and found myself standing on my tippy toes to even look down when we were in port.

[pthree]

Thanks for the update.

Its amazing how people can be so insensitive when its not a member of their family.
[quote name='Raph'] I actually heard a very callous person complaining at guest services that this was messing up her holiday by us not stopping.

[/quote]

[Big_G]

[quote name='akcruz']Actually my daughter is 22 and while she would not be sitting on the railings I know many her age that would.[/quote]

I have to concur with the other poster. In all my cruises, I've never seen anyone sitting on a railing. It's not impossible but their design definitely inhibits it.

[MelLG]

[quote name='Desertbelle']

There is a novel, I forget the name if it, where a husband drops his cabin key on the deck, leans over to get the keys and instead grabs his wife's ankles and dumps her over the railing of a cruise ship and into the ocean. My husband and I have tried (of course not seriously) to test this out and there is no way under normal conditions that this could be done without a good deal of screaming and struggling, if at all. The railing would need to be down around someone's hips to achieve the angle needed to just lift and tip them over the side....or blow them over.
[/QUOTE]

"Skinny Dip" by Carl Hiaasen, I believe. I thought of that exact scene from the book when I read about this unfortunate situation. Of course, being fiction, the wife survived the fall in the novel because she was an excellent swimmer and knew how to enter the water in a safe dive.

[Desertbelle]

[quote name='MelLG']"Skinny Dip" by Carl Hiaasen, I believe. I thought of that exact scene from the book when I read about this unfortunate situation. Of course, being fiction, the wife survived the fall in the novel because she was an excellent swimmer and knew how to enter the water in a safe dive.[/quote]
Yes, yes, that's it....a fun read! Bruce and I enjoyed it! Don't forget, she survives her few days in the water because she comes upon large floating bales of marijuana that she holds onto.....such realism! :D:D

[poncho1973]

[quote name='amo1979']Has nobody ever had the misfortune of having their cabin door open unxepectedly while the balcony door is open? That is one major riptide of wind and most certainly is enough to force a person over that rail if they were leaning against it. On our first cruise we had an incident where it happened and almost eveything not nailed down in our room went ver that balcony!

Ever since that is something that all of us who travel are VERY careful about, esp now that my toddler is with us on all cruises. [/quote]

Mythbusters Episode #149 showed that to knock a 170lb man over, it took a 130mph wind.

The railing is 54" tall, so anyone shorter than 54" would also have be lifted with enough thrust to shoot them over the rail. Most toddlers are not naturally aerodynamic, so this would be substantial. So, even if it only took a 50mph wind to knock over a toddler, it would take a massive wind to lift them higher than 54" (at least 64" because I highly doubt a toddler is less than 10" thick from front to back) and over the rail.

The only thing you have to fear about your toddlers are them falling down and since toddlers fall about 50 times a day, you are gold.



[B]As a huge sidebar... if you have 130mph + winds coming through your room when you open the door, you have a lot more problems than people flying off the balcony over a 54" rail. You wouldn't have blankets on your bed, you wouldn't have pictures on the wall, you wouldn't have your tabletop items anymore, etc.[/B]

[grand isle joe]

[quote name='Desertbelle'] she survives her few days in the water because she comes upon large floating bales of marijuana that she holds onto.....such realism! :D:D[/quote]





.......[FONT=Comic Sans MS][SIZE=4][COLOR=darkgreen]dude.......don't bogart that bale, man............float it around......[/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT]

[Iamthesea]

[quote name='FLACRUISER99']AIS showed her entering St Thomas harbor this morning about 7:20 EST, she then went out of range.[/quote]

Glad to know they are in St. Thomas today. My hair dresser and group had big plans their. They are being picked up by the house keeper of a friend that has a home on the island. he will take them for a tour, and then go back to the house for a swim and early dinner. My understanding is that the ship does not leave St. Thomas until 9:00??? I've never known a ship to stay that late in the Caribbean, but since they go to St. Maarten the next day, I guess it can. ;)

[quote name='Desertbelle']There is a novel, I forget the name if it, where a husband drops his cabin key on the deck, leans over to get the keys and instead grabs his wife's ankles and dumps her over the railing of a cruise ship and into the ocean. My husband and I have tried (of course not seriously) to test this out and there is no way under normal conditions that this could be done without a good deal of screaming and struggling, if at all. The railing would need to be down around someone's hips to achieve the angle needed to just lift and tip them over the side....or blow them over.
[/quote]

I was also thinking [I]Skinny Dipping[/I]. Good fun book.

I cannot believe that you and your husband tried it out. :D I think the character in the book was tall and lean, plus a bit loopy from wine. If she were leaning over the rail, a surprise attack could possibly toss a person over. I sure am not going to test it, though. :eek: Wouldn't be the same because I would know it was coming. Kind of like with a tickle. You start laughing before the hand gets to you. If testing the being thrown overboard, you would tense, knowing it was coming.

[Familygoboston]

[quote name='Desertbelle']Yes, yes, that's it....a fun read! Bruce and I enjoyed it! Don't forget, she survives her few days in the water because she comes upon large floating bales of marijuana that she holds onto.....such realism! :D:D[/QUOTE]

In the novel, she comes back and gets the somoofa...but that's fiction. This is so sad because it's all too real!
I do recall watching some pelagic birds diving off our balcony on Oasis. We were on 10 and the birds were flying at deck 8-12 level and then diving in to get fish the ship was churning up while it was under way. These birds were large- probably a 2-3 foot wingspan when they were parallel to our balcony, but when they dove to the water, and popped back up, they literally disappeared from view they were so tiny from that height!

I think it would be exceedingly difficult to keep your " eye" on a person in the water with the distance, swells and speed of the ship. 2 hours - there just seems like there would be no hope. I've had some life saving training/ CG boating mob training and we were taught to never lose visual contact with the MOB. Keep visual contact and shout for another person to sound the alarm and get a flotation device out as quickly as possible. The video of the crewman in the water shows how fast you can lose sight! But that first person and any subsequent people should maintain visual contact if at all possible.

[Desertbelle]

[quote name='Iamthesea']......

I was also thinking [I]Skinny Dipping[/I]. Good fun book.

I cannot believe that you and your husband tried it out. :D I think the character in the book was tall and lean, plus a bit loopy from wine. If she were leaning over the rail, a surprise attack could possibly toss a person over. I sure am not going to test it, though. :eek: Wouldn't be the same because I would know it was coming. Kind of like with a tickle. You start laughing before the hand gets to you. If testing the being thrown overboard, you would tense, knowing it was coming.[/quote]

We are a little goofy that way. We were laughing pretty hard after each of tried lifting each other up and over. :D Of course our conditions weren't perfect, but we still concluded that on any modern cruise ship someone would need to be like 7 1/2 feet tall, very drunk and weigh about 110 lbs. to make it even plausible. :D We concluded that we would need to figure out a different way to kill each other!!

[littlelamb814]

[quote name='pthree']Thanks for the update.

Its amazing how people can be so insensitive when its not a member of their family.[/quote]


Family member or not. Other people have plans at ports. I for one have my upcoming wedding in Nassau. When I read about this incident it now has me stressing and having anxiety. What will happen if I don't make it to port where I have plans and have already paid for my wedding? Then my wedding can't happen. There could be someone on that ship that has the same thing planned. I wouldn't be able to complain about it but I think I would die with all the stress and money I have put out for my wedding and not be able to have it because of an incident on the cruise ship.

[aurelius180]

[quote name='littlelamb814']Family member or not. Other people have plans at ports. I for one have my upcoming wedding in Nassau. When I read about this incident it now has me stressing and having anxiety. What will happen if I don't make it to port where I have plans and have already paid for my wedding? Then my wedding can't happen. There could be someone on that ship that has the same thing planned. I wouldn't be able to complain about it but I think I would die with all the stress and money I have put out for my wedding and not be able to have it because of an incident on the cruise ship.[/quote]

Congrats on the wedding in Nassau! My DW and I had our wedding last year in Nassau at Compass Point. It was a decision we are very happy we made and I couldn't imagine having missed out on that opportunity. As a backup we did purchase wedding insurance given all the potential variables. With all of the costs associated with a wedding the extra ~$150 for peace of mind helped. I'm glad we didn't need it because it still wouldn't have replaced the memories.

[brianjb]

[quote name='Desertbelle']Oh my goodness, I have never seen anyone sitting on the railing, that would scare me to near death...I would probably scream at them![/QUOTE]

But don't scream so loud as to startle them and make them lose balance and fall

:D

[littlelamb814]

[quote name='aurelius180']Congrats on the wedding in Nassau! My DW and I had our wedding last year in Nassau at Compass Point. It was a decision we are very happy we made and I couldn't imagine having missed out on that opportunity. As a backup we did purchase wedding insurance given all the potential variables. With all of the costs associated with a wedding the extra ~$150 for peace of mind helped. I'm glad we didn't need it because it still wouldn't have replaced the memories.[/quote]

That is exactly where we are getting married at Compass Point! I will have to look into wedding insurance. That isn't something I have thought about. That will help put me at ease! Thanks for the information!

[aurelius180]

[quote name='littlelamb814']That is exactly where we are getting married at Compass Point! I will have to look into wedding insurance. That isn't something I have thought about. That will help put me at ease! Thanks for the information![/quote]

Compass Point is a really beautiful place...you'll love it!! Have fun and good luck! :)

[WhiteSoxFan]

[quote name='littlelamb814']That is exactly where we are getting married at Compass Point! I will have to look into wedding insurance. That isn't something I have thought about. That will help put me at ease! Thanks for the information![/QUOTE]
There are many reasons why a ship may not make it into port, I would consider another event like this to be one of the least likely. We were on the Allure's 6th sailing and it was the first time they made port in Nassau, the previous sailing did not go into port because of weather.

[m*u*g*]

[URL]http://www.wmctv.com/story/19578735/coast-guard-ends-search-for-bartlett-woman-missing-from-cruise[/URL]

[url]http://www.wmctv.com/story/19565326/bartlett-woman-feared-to-have-gone-overboard-on-cruise[/url]

[janetz]

[quote name='pthree']I can only imagine what the mood is like on the ship. Other articles mentioned she was traveling with her mom. I wonder if she will be getting off at the next port or continuing back to the US.
It must be a devastating feeling to have lost a child nonetheless while on vacation.[/quote]

[SIZE=3][/SIZE]
[SIZE=3]This has been what I have been thinking about. What a horrible thing. .:( So sad. [/SIZE]

[Ocean Boy]

[quote name='Familygoboston']In the novel, she comes back and gets the[COLOR="Red"] somoofa[/COLOR]...but that's fiction. This is so sad because it's all too real!
[/QUOTE]

The WHAT??:confused::eek::confused:

[poncho1973]

[quote name='pthree']I can only imagine what the mood is like on the ship.[/quote]

I don't mean to seem hardened or anything, but the mood on the ship is most likely not somber. It is certainly a horrible thing and devastating to the people that knew and loved this girl.

However, the Allure isn't a 30 passenger yacht. There are anywhere from 6,000 to 8,500 other people (including crew) on that ship that didn't fall overboard and are either on vaction or doing their job.

I'm sure that anyone on the ship who heard about it (and there are probably some that didn't) was sad and either paused for a moment to pray, think good thoughts, whatever they believe in and then went on. There was probably an announcement or something of note for the poor girl. Some people probably cried. Some people probably tried to help the mother.

Then people had to eat dinner and they went to the shows and they had fun in the bars. The CD most likely didn't stop the hairy legs contest or the midnight party. While it is a horrible event... the entire ship of people paid their respects however they felt they needed to and went back to their vacation.

[COLOR=red][B]I'm sure whenever they needed as many eyes on the water as they could get that the rails were jammed elbow to elbow from tip to stern.[/B][/COLOR] The human spirit, despite the bad eggs, comes through in tragedy. However, when they weren't needed for the potential rescue, people have the right to move back to their vacation.