Cruise costs to Sydney to go way up

[cirman52]

this is not a sure thing, but for a taxing body to let go of more money , plan on saving more money for your future cruise to down under.

 

http://www.smh.com.au/travel/travel-news/any-port-in-a-storm-not-sydney-after-its-3700-berthing-fee-rise-20121129-2airg.html

[bob278]

this is not a sure thing, but for a taxing body to let go of more money , plan on saving more money for your future cruise to down under.

 

http://www.smh.com.au/travel/travel-news/any-port-in-a-storm-not-sydney-after-its-3700-berthing-fee-rise-20121129-2airg.html

 

That's one heck of an increase and could cost them money in the long run. But while I took quite a few math courses in college, none of them taught be how to calculate that increase as 3700* (wouldn't that equate to 37 times the current amount?). As an example, a ship with 2,000 passengers aboard would pay 3,000 now and 60,000 in 2015/2016. Isn't that 2000%? But journalistic math aside, $3,000 doesn't come close to covering the cost of providing the facilities and services such as sewage, handling and storage of cargo/supplies, roads/access, security, utilities, etc., etc. I think they have to increase by some amount.

 

I'm sure their improvement programs were sold to voters who probably had to approve a bond issue or to government bodies who approved the money by touting all the money the passengers would spend. Now their projections have proven to be way off (18 million dollar loss projected) that they need more revenue. But it should not all come from the passengers who are already paying quite a bit through taxes on what they spend in Sydney.

 

But just use the table they provided and see how much the revenue might drop with my mythical 2,000-passenger ship as the average and:

 

Tax revenue at current cost for 302 ships: 906,000

Tax revenue at projected 2015/2016 cost ($30/passenger) for 302 ships: 18,000,000 (coincidence - that's the projected loss)

Tax revenue at projected 2015/2016 cost ($30/passenger) for 20 ships: 1,200,000 (still 255 more than current revenue)

 

Unless I am totally missing something, I would feel pretty good if I were in the Minister's position. Even with the cruise lines reacting in such a huge manner, his revenue is almost certain to increase. And because Sydney is so popular, I don't see that happening. What I predict is that they will simply pass the cost on as a "fee" and actually improve their bottom line since they already had the current fee covered.

 

And let's face it, my wife and I are going to spend so much for our Solstice cruise next year that $60 for the two of us would not make me consider skipping it and I suspect most other cruisers would feel the same. We'll just skip a couple of Big Macs each. :rolleyes:

 

He's going to be a hero by cutting a huge loss with little or no cost to local governments or taxpayers.

[Dowunder]

That's good, perhaps many more cruise ship's for Melbourne, a much more interesting city!!!

[TLCOhio]

this is not a sure thing, but for a taxing body to let go of more money , plan on saving more money for your future cruise to down under.

http://www.smh.com.au/travel/travel-news/any-port-in-a-storm-not-sydney-after-its-3700-berthing-fee-rise-20121129-2airg.html

 

Appreciate this posting and the interesting news article. We are looking forward to our first “down under” visit, Jan. 20-Feb. 3, 2014, Celebrity Solstice sailing, departing Sydney, doing 14 days on this ship we loved in the Med in June 2011. We will be finishing in Auckland. Plus, doing some pre-cruise options for Kangaroo Island near Adelaide and then the Great Barrier Reef before departing from Sidney’s scenic harbor. And, probably post-cruise in Queenstown and stopping in Tahiti on the way home to break up that long, long flight back. We have a nice and active roll call going at:

http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=1614754

Welcome to any who want to join us for this trip and/or travel along via the web as we get prepared for that "adventure".

 

I posted this link and highlights on our roll call, plus on the NZ-Aust. board. How will Celebrity play this? We booked back in April 2012. Can or will they jack up our costs after we have already put down our deposit? Reactions and insights?

 

THANKS! Enjoy! Terry in Ohio

 

Did a June 7-19, 2011, Solstice cruise from Barcelona that had stops in Villefranche, ports near Pisa and Rome, Naples, Kotor, Venice and Dubrovnik. Enjoyed great weather and a wonderful trip. Dozens of wonderful visuals with key highlights, tips, comments, etc., on these postings. We are now at 110,666 views for this live/blog re-cap on our first sailing with Celebrity and much on wonderful Barcelona. Check these postings and added info at:

http://www.boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=1426474

[KirkNC]

Great :mad:, thanks for the information.

[bob278]

Appreciate this posting and the interesting news article. We are looking forward to our first “down under” visit, Jan. 20-Feb. 3, 2014, Celebrity Solstice sailing, departing Sydney, doing 14 days on this ship we loved in the Med in June 2011. We will be finishing in Auckland. Plus, doing some pre-cruise options for Kangaroo Island near Adelaide and then the Great Barrier Reef before departing from Sidney’s scenic harbor. And, probably post-cruise in Queenstown and stopping in Tahiti on the way home to break up that long, long flight back. We have a nice and active roll call going at:

http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=1614754

Welcome to any who want to join us for this trip and/or travel along via the web as we get prepared for that "adventure".

 

I posted this link and highlights on our roll call, plus on the NZ-Aust. board. How will Celebrity play this? We booked back in April 2012. Can or will they jack up our costs after we have already put down our deposit? Reactions and insights?

 

THANKS! Enjoy! Terry in Ohio

 

Did a June 7-19, 2011, Solstice cruise from Barcelona that had stops in Villefranche, ports near Pisa and Rome, Naples, Kotor, Venice and Dubrovnik. Enjoyed great weather and a wonderful trip. Dozens of wonderful visuals with key highlights, tips, comments, etc., on these postings. We are now at 110,666 views for this live/blog re-cap on our first sailing with Celebrity and much on wonderful Barcelona. Check these postings and added info at:

http://www.boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=1426474

I think they have the right to pass on increases in taxes/fees imposed on them at any time, even after final payment. I don't know that for a fact, but that's certainly the language in reference to fuel surcharges.

 

My guess is that your cruise falls in the 2013/2014 period and your cruise might go up by $50. Not a good thing, but not much in comparison to the other costs.

[TLCOhio]

I think they have the right to pass on increases in taxes/fees imposed on them at any time, even after final payment. I don't know that for a fact, but that's certainly the language in reference to fuel surcharges. My guess is that your cruise falls in the 2013/2014 period and your cruise might go up by $50. Not a good thing, but not much in comparison to the other costs.

 

Appreciate Bob's info. Would prefer that they won't tack on these added costs. BUT, these things happen and we are not yet "locked in" with a paid-in-full booking situation.

 

THANKS! Enjoy! Terry in Ohio

 

Did a June 7-19, 2011, Solstice cruise from Barcelona that had stops in Villefranche, ports near Pisa and Rome, Naples, Kotor, Venice and Dubrovnik. Enjoyed great weather and a wonderful trip. Dozens of wonderful visuals with key highlights, tips, comments, etc., on these postings. We are now at 110,666 views for this live/blog re-cap on our first sailing with Celebrity and much on wonderful Barcelona. Check these postings and added info at:

http://www.boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=1426474

[Flipper133]

Just a couple of points....

 

1. Big part of Sydney's infrastructure costs (which is the driver for these increases) is for the construction of the new White Bay Terminal (see last para in article). White Bay is west of the Sydney Harbour Bridge, so ships larger than about 77,000 tonnes (eg Sun Princess) will not be able to use it...only real option is the existing OPT at Circular Quay (eastern side of bridge), So VOS, Solstice, QM2 etc will still pay extra fees but will be restricted to OPT. Ok they might be updating it....but I dont see the equity. :confused:

 

2. Sydney is by far the best cruise destination/port in OZ.... certainly much better than grimey old Melbourne :(... so despite what Ann Sherry seems to be threatening, Sydney will remain the premier port in the country, and that is what passengers will demand.

 

cheers

[Northern Aurora]

We were on the Century cruise from Honolulu to Sydney in November 2011.

 

We docked at the OPT, and while the OPT was clean it clearly needed updating. For example, the hall where we retrieved out luggage was very small. The lack of space made for a long disembarkation since there was such a limited amount of space for luggage that passengers had to find their luggage before more luggage could be unloaded.

 

Reading the article, the docking fees are projected to increase to $30.00 per passenger in 2015-2016. Quite frankly, if folks can't afford an extra $60 per couple they shouldn't be cruising to Australia. We paid more than $60 for lunches in the land of Oz.

[Kartgv]

Wow, that's a horrible increase. We're really glad we did our 'bucket list' Australia/New Zealand trip this past spring instead of postponing it. Australia is already very expensive compared to anywhere else we've traveled and this may put it beyond the reach of more people. That's such a shame, as Sydney is one of the most beautiful, exciting, and interesting cities in the world. The Australian cruise business had really been building over the last couple of years, with more lines brings more ships to this part of the world, but this change could definitely reverse that process.

[3littlepigs]

I can't see how a $30 charge would make any difference to someone deciding whether or not to visit Sydney. Its a drop in the bucket compared to what it costs to get here from the other side of the world. The cruise industry here is expanding rapidly, facilities need to expand, someone needs to pay and we have a great tradition of "user pays" around here. Much better to pay $30 than have to transfe by tender when the current berths are full.

[6andy6]

Just a couple of points....

 

2. Sydney is by far the best cruise destination/port in OZ.... certainly much better than grimey old Melbourne :(... so despite what Ann Sherry seems to be threatening, Sydney will remain the premier port in the country, and that is what passengers will demand.

 

cheers

 

Actually wrong.

 

It's not the best destination for ships 'based' in Australia.

 

For the likes of a P&O Australia whose almost entire passenger list is Australian based and who do constitute the majority of year round sailings out of Sydney and therefore passenger loads ....there is no reason to be based in Sydney.

 

Most Australians have been to Sydney before. They don't care one hoot whether they go again it just happens to be the port the ship leaves from.

 

If they moved the ships up to Brisbane it is just as easy to get there from the rest of the country. It would also provide actual benefits in that Brisbane is not only closer to many of the pacific ports* (potential fuel savings), it is closer to the developing North Queensland cruise destinations that once again for a line always looking for cost savings would mean less fuel. If that happened the the only ships visiting Sydney would be ones trying to attract a US clientele.

 

Oh.....by the way...Melbourne is actually the premier port of this country ($75 billion a year) if we are talking about shipping overall. Much bigger amount of cargo goes through Melbourne than Sydney ($50 billion)....but I know your talking passenger ships. :D

 

* for example Brisbane to Noumea is 1472 klms where as Sydney to Noumea is 1900+. You do the math...a cruise line facing higher costs gets a good offer from the Qld government to base their ships up there and build a new terminal to boot PLUS the line also benefits from massive fuel savings. Which do you think they might go for? It could be worth a couple hundred thousand a sailing one day.

[Aussie Claire]

Actually wrong.

 

It's not the best destination for ships 'based' in Australia.

 

For the likes of a P&O Australia whose almost entire passenger list is Australian based and who do constitute the majority of year round sailings out of Sydney and therefore passenger loads ....there is no reason to be based in Sydney.

 

Most Australians have been to Sydney before. They don't care one hoot whether they go again it just happens to be the port the ship leaves from.

 

If they moved the ships up to Brisbane it is just as easy to get there from the rest of the country. It would also provide actual benefits in that Brisbane is not only closer to many of the pacific ports* (potential fuel savings), it is closer to the developing North Queensland cruise destinations that once again for a line always looking for cost savings would mean less fuel. If that happened the the only ships visiting Sydney would be ones trying to attract a US clientele.

 

Oh.....by the way...Melbourne is actually the premier port of this country ($75 billion a year) if we are talking about shipping overall. Much bigger amount of cargo goes through Melbourne than Sydney ($50 billion)....but I know your talking passenger ships. :D

 

* for example Brisbane to Noumea is 1472 klms where as Sydney to Noumea is 1900+. You do the math...a cruise line facing higher costs gets a good offer from the Qld government to base their ships up there and build a new terminal to boot PLUS the line also benefits from massive fuel savings. Which do you think they might go for? It could be worth a couple hundred thousand a sailing one day.

 

Sydney has one of the most beautiful harbours in the world, this alone attracts tourism. Melbourne is also a fabulous city to visit, but it does not have the beauty Sydney harbour has.

 

$30 per person is a drop in the ocean compared to the overall cost of a cruise and overseas flights to Sydney.

[4774Papa]

The fee of $3000 was very low, can see some increase. People will still want to cruise there, so the cruise lines will likely pass on the $18 per passenger fee to cruisers.

[Ship's Wake]

That's one heck of an increase and could cost them money in the long run. But while I took quite a few math courses in college, none of them taught be how to calculate that increase as 3700* (wouldn't that equate to 37 times the current amount?). As an example, a ship with 2,000 passengers aboard would pay 3,000 now and 60,000 in 2015/2016. Isn't that 2000%? But journalistic math aside, $3,000 doesn't come close to covering the cost of providing the facilities and services such as sewage, handling and storage of cargo/supplies, roads/access, security, utilities, etc., etc. I think they have to increase by some amount.

 

I'm sure their improvement programs were sold to voters who probably had to approve a bond issue or to government bodies who approved the money by touting all the money the passengers would spend. Now their projections have proven to be way off (18 million dollar loss projected) that they need more revenue. But it should not all come from the passengers who are already paying quite a bit through taxes on what they spend in Sydney.

 

But just use the table they provided and see how much the revenue might drop with my mythical 2,000-passenger ship as the average and:

 

Tax revenue at current cost for 302 ships: 906,000

Tax revenue at projected 2015/2016 cost ($30/passenger) for 302 ships: 18,000,000 (coincidence - that's the projected loss)

Tax revenue at projected 2015/2016 cost ($30/passenger) for 20 ships: 1,200,000 (still 255 more than current revenue)

 

Unless I am totally missing something, I would feel pretty good if I were in the Minister's position. Even with the cruise lines reacting in such a huge manner, his revenue is almost certain to increase. And because Sydney is so popular, I don't see that happening. What I predict is that they will simply pass the cost on as a "fee" and actually improve their bottom line since they already had the current fee covered.

 

And let's face it, my wife and I are going to spend so much for our Solstice cruise next year that $60 for the two of us would not make me consider skipping it and I suspect most other cruisers would feel the same. We'll just skip a couple of Big Macs each. :rolleyes:

 

He's going to be a hero by cutting a huge loss with little or no cost to local governments or taxpayers.

 

Once the cruise lines adjust their time calling on Sydney, it follows that there are less cruise passengers visiting Sydney, meaning less passenger spending overall.

 

So to balance the cruise ports budget the end result will be to reduce the amount of money overall flowing into the Sydney economy from cruise related tourism. That can't be good for the economy of Sydney.

 

Am I wrong on this?

[sparky-elpaso]

Once the cruise lines adjust their time calling on Sydney, it follows that there are less cruise passengers visiting Sydney, meaning less passenger spending overall.

 

So to balance the cruise ports budget the end result will be to reduce the amount of money overall flowing into the Sydney economy from cruise related tourism. That can't be good for the economy of Sydney.

 

Am I wrong on this?

 

I think the time issue depends on where the cruiser is coming from. As Americans we flew in 2 days before our cruise and stayed 2 more days after so we could see more of Sydney.

[A Sixth?]

The fee of $3000 was very low, can see some increase. People will still want to cruise there, so the cruise lines will likely pass on the $18 per passenger fee to cruisers.

 

(tongue firmly in cheek) :p

 

"I just paid $15,000.00 dollars for my trip/cruise to Oz and an extra $ 32.00 will simply RUIN my vacation plans!!!!

 

How dare they!!! Who do they think they are? Alaskans!!!!!

 

:rolleyes::cool:

[Karynanne]

Sydney has one of the most beautiful harbours in the world, this alone attracts tourism. Melbourne is also a fabulous city to visit, but it does not have the beauty Sydney harbour has.

 

$30 per person is a drop in the ocean compared to the overall cost of a cruise and overseas flights to Sydney.

 

I have to agree. The Sydney Harbor is the most beautiful port that I've ever visited. Melbourne is a wonderful city, but for sheer beauty...Sydney has it beat.

[bob278]

Once the cruise lines adjust their time calling on Sydney, it follows that there are less cruise passengers visiting Sydney, meaning less passenger spending overall.

 

So to balance the cruise ports budget the end result will be to reduce the amount of money overall flowing into the Sydney economy from cruise related tourism. That can't be good for the economy of Sydney.

 

Am I wrong on this?

I don't think you are wrong on the impact of the reduction in passengers/tourists on the overall financial impact to Sydney. I just don't see any major reduction happening after all the blustering is over. The cruise lines will tell their passengers they tried to fight it but must (reluctantly) pass this cost on to them.

 

With only a few exceptions (very short cruises or sales due to low bookings), it is very difficult to cruise for less than $1,000 p/p so the number of people who would see $30 as a deal-breaker would be extremely small in my opinion.

 

Where I live, there was a 2% tax added to hotel rooms despite the gloom and doom predictions of the hotel operators who feared it would drive business to hotels in adjacent counties. They tried to rally people to their cause claiming it would cut the number of people coming to the county. That didn't work and the tax passed. Guess what, it had no impact at all. And, as a more direct comparison, consider the taxes in Alaska as A Sixth? said. That area is still booming for cruises,

 

As I and several others have said, when looking at the total cost of a cruise (cruise fare, airfare, lodging, etc.) this is not likely to cause many people to avoid cruising to/from Sydney. The group of people who would most likely even stop to consider the impact are those who don't have to travel to Sydney or stay in a hotel before or after the cruise. What percentage would that be?

 

I can say for a certainty that adding $60 to a week-long cruise out of Miami would cause no reaction to me except to complain about the money-hungry ba$tard$ trying to make a quick buck off of people who can't vote there (and Miami is only a 3 hour flight for me). But cancel a cruise because of it? Not bloody likely.

[Aussie Claire]

Sydney desperately needs another large ship cruise terminal to accommodate the large cruise traffic during our summer months, these extra port charges will be a way of raising funds. The NSW and Australian government do not have the funds to pay for this, but at the same time will not want to see their tourism $'s disappear to another country.

 

I believe most cruisers (especially Australians) will welcome more large ships , if they have to pay an extra $30, so be it. It is a small price to pay for the service.

 

Now we just needs to get Celebrity to give Australians better cruise deal prices, along the lines that our North American friends receive.

[6andy6]

I have to agree. The Sydney Harbor is the most beautiful port that I've ever visited. Melbourne is a wonderful city, but for sheer beauty...Sydney has it beat.

 

I think out all need to reread my post(or sit a comprehension exercise).

 

I didn't say nothing about Sydney compared to Melbourne.

 

My point was Australian based ships (P&O Australia/Carnival) catering to only Australians ( and not foreign tourists like HAL, Celebrity or Cunard) - potential passengers really don't care whether the harbor is beautiful or not. Funnily enough many Australians don't visit Sydney for the Harbour - we have plenty of beautiful harbors that don't have a polluting city sitting on it enough.

 

The point was for those ships catering for Australians only the attraction is not in leaving Sydney...it's just a point of departure. They can equally leave other ports (Brisbane in my example) and if Sydney as a port got to expensive they might. And tbh for many families or young group of guys/gals a pre or post cruise stay on the Gold Coast may be more attractive than in Sydney with its theme parks, beaches and party atmosphere.

[The_Big_M]

The fee of $3000 was very low, can see some increase.

 

Agreed, this is the main thing.

 

It's a large increase - but it's coming off a low base, which was reduced massively as well a few years back. Given the new price just moves us in line with a number of other international cities, it's unlikely to change any lines plans.

 

And regarding the costs, it's not just future but present. The OPT just put in a $5 million mooring upgrade for ships like Solstice and Voyager to be able to moor there this year. How many years would it take to recoup that at $3000 a pop?!

 

As for Melbourne, well, they're hiking their public transport rates to a minimum $30 a couple for arrivals at the port from next month, so that's not exactly putting out the welcome mat. The difference there is that it's direct to the passenger instead of via the cruise line.

[Aussie Claire]

I think out all need to reread my post(or sit a comprehension exercise).

 

I didn't say nothing about Sydney compared to Melbourne.

 

My point was Australian based ships (P&O Australia/Carnival) catering to only Australians ( and not foreign tourists like HAL, Celebrity or Cunard) - potential passengers really don't care whether the harbor is beautiful or not. Funnily enough many Australians don't visit Sydney for the Harbour - we have plenty of beautiful harbors that don't have a polluting city sitting on it enough.

 

The point was for those ships catering for Australians only the attraction is not in leaving Sydney...it's just a point of departure. They can equally leave other ports (Brisbane in my example) and if Sydney as a port got to expensive they might. And tbh for many families or young group of guys/gals a pre or post cruise stay on the Gold Coast may be more attractive than in Sydney with its theme parks, beaches and party atmosphere.

 

"Comprehension" that is funny:D read your own post.

 

P&O already depart from Melbourne and Brisbane during the summer months. There are problems with the Queensland government concerning a cruise terminal, read the following link.

 

http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/queensland/gold-coast-cruise-terminal-plan-flawed-20121105-28syl.html

 

People staying on the Gold Coast would need to pay a $40 transfer fee (shuttle bus) per person to get to the cruise terminal in Brisbane. For the benefit of our overseas visitors the Gold Coast isn't in Brisbane but is approx. 70 km away.

 

Sydney already has the gorgeous harbour in place, why not use it, that makes sense to me.

[6andy6]

"Comprehension" that is funny:D read your own post.

 

P&O already depart from Melbourne and Brisbane during the summer months. There are problems with the Queensland government concerning a cruise terminal, read the following link.

 

http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/queensland/gold-coast-cruise-terminal-plan-flawed-20121105-28syl.html

 

People staying on the Gold Coast would need to pay a $40 transfer fee (shuttle bus) per person to get to the cruise terminal in Brisbane. For the benefit of our overseas visitors the Gold Coast isn't in Brisbane but is approx. 70 km away.

 

Sydney already has the gorgeous harbour in place, why not use it, that makes sense to me.

 

Oh dear.....

[6andy6]

Agreed, this is the main thing.

 

 

As for Melbourne, well, they're hiking their public transport rates to a minimum $30 a couple for arrivals at the port from next month, so that's not exactly putting out the welcome mat. The difference there is that it's direct to the passenger instead of via the cruise line.

 

Lol. Oh you mean the Myki Visitor pass @ $14 each which also includes an $8 fare. Now Zone One all day trains, trams and buses including the light rail from the cruise terminal to the CBD is $7.60 a day for an adult.

Oh and on weekends the cost is $3.80 on either Saturday or Sunday.

 

Now compare that with Sydney's MyMulti Day Pass at $21 each for all day travel on trains, ferries and buses. Melbourne's Zone One and Two ( so the totally urban area) is $11.60 for the same thing. Tad more than you triumphing claim of Melbournes high priced transport shock of public transport rates. You may like to check your own home towns prices more often.