Is Princess Trying Too Hard

[Topo Gigio]

I personally think that Carnival Corporation has way too many cruise lines under her umbrella.

[dmwnc1959]

I personally think that Carnival Corporation has way too many cruise lines under her umbrella.

 

Some of these cruise lines under that umbrella with their large fleets of modern ships would not exist had it not been for the Carnival Corporation. If they had not stepped in with their bankroll, most would have gone bankrupt, ceased to operate, or have a fleet 1/2 the current size with much older ships than they have now.

[Seafoam Green]

Hi All

 

Recall what made you take your first Princess cruise, for me it was simple had been on other cruise lines was on another ship, when I saw my first Princess ship the Golden Princess knowing nothing about the line apart from that ship looked way better than the one I was on, I booked my first Princess cruise liked it booked another on the same ship

 

Shogun-

 

Oddly enough, I 're-experienced' that moment last night, as my husband was playing the photos from our 12/2010 Carnival Valor cruise. We were docked in Cozumel, across the pier from a Princess ship. I was struck by its beauty, lovely classic lines, and how the passengers seemed more like my husband and me. Before we went to our excursion, I spent a lot of time just studying that Princess ship. At the end of the cruise, I told my husband I wanted to try Princess the next time.

 

I could never recall which ship had caused that reaction in me. Last night I noticed many pictures of the two ships together, and then several of the Princess ship by itself. It was the Crown Princess.

 

My Princess experience is limited, I will admit, but the product is a good one, the demographic is similar, and no matter where you are, you are always responsible for making your own good time.

[dmwnc1959]

Hi All

 

Question, If Carnival lets the brands

 

HAL, Carnival and Princess do there own thing, providing they make the return required, will they not all at some point become very similar,

 

does Carnival need to say

 

do your own thing but make your target cruiser

 

Carnival first time cruiser and under 30s budget cruising

 

Princess family 30 to 50 main stream

 

HAL 50 plus higher end

 

yours Shogun

 

I think it may have to do with a lot of other factors other than blocking people into age groups or socio-economic status. I have a friend who cruised Queen Mary 2 and Disney Dream in December, is boarding the Oasis of the Seas this weekend, and is cruising the Carnival Breeze in March. He has also cruise Norwegian, Celebrity, Princess, and Holland America all in the last 5 years. And he's roughly my age (early 50's).

 

I've priced Carnival cruises that were more expensive than Princess, and not everyone who cruises Carnival is a 20-something year old 'on the cheap'. And there are those who choose HAL that prefer that ambiance over Carnival and they are in their mid-thirties. One of our recently dearly departed Cruise Critic members LOVED Holland-America over any of the Carnival Corp. products, he was in his mid-thirties, and was from the Netherlands (that might have had something to do with it). I just priced a Holland America cruise on Nieuw Amsterdam and Crown Princess for the same weekend and HAL was cheaper. And people with 'money' may not always prefer a high end cruise line. They often realize they can get more bang for their bucks on a main stream cruise line like Princess and cruise more often. Many cruisers understand the relationship between cost and value, benefits and amenities.

 

So maybe having the cruise lines specifically target certain economic groups or ages may not be the best business plan. That might have been a good idea ten years ago, but they really do need to try and appeal to just about everyone in order to keep bringing in business to fill their fleets of ships.

 

.

[junglejane]

I agree with the comments about the production shows. I was on the Sapphire Princess Christmas cruise. Overall I had a great time and gave it a very positive member review. But I do think the production shows are weak and I said so in the post-cruise survey I got from Princess. They are just the same old song and dance numbers with cheesy costumes that they've been doing for years. Other cruise lines are innovating with their production shows, but Princess is doing the same old same old. "Born to Be Wild" is just the same old thing with a different name.

 

I understand that the new 30 minute show format may provide some challenges, but it's time for some creative thinking by the Princess team. It goes back to Coral's comment. The problem is not that Princess is trying too hard. Princess is not trying hard enough. They're fine in a middle of the road sort of way, but too bland and generic.

[Topo Gigio]

Some of these cruise lines under that umbrella with their large fleets of modern ships would not exist had it not been for the Carnival Corporation. If they had not stepped in with their bankroll, most would have gone bankrupt, ceased to operate, or have a fleet 1/2 the current size with much older ships than they have now.

 

It's not about quantity but quality. What's the deal having a lot of cruise lines (this can be apply to any other business too) under 1 umbrella and they are just not what they used to be. Like in nature survival of the fittest.

[kendon]

A large part of what keeps me coming back to Princess (I'm on a cruise right now!) can be said in two words - PROMENADE DECK!!!

 

I look at all these new behemoths being built and wonder what it feels like to cruise without easy access to a good walking deck.

 

 

Love, love, love the Promenade deck. It is also a big part of the cruise experience for us. After all, I do want a SHIP experience.

[kendon]

As one who is getting increasingly disilusioned by Princess of late, much of what Showgun has stated is too true. His questions are not easy to answer, but to me Princess seems to be cutting back too much,at the expense of what was a very good product.

 

john

 

Absolutely! Loved it for what it WAS, not the direction it's going.

[lor74]

We are leaving on Sat for back-back cruises on the Silhouette & Ruby. As of now we give Princess a slight edge over Celebrity for our favs. I am very curious as to what kind of review I will be writing when I am back. Having never been on the newer Celebrity ships, and reading many reviews from long time Celebrity fans who prefer the old ships to the new ones...what will I think? Also, after reading so much material of late in regards to Princess going down hill.......will I feel the same?

 

Should prove interesting.....I'll report back in 3 weeks :)

[bdjam]

I don't think it's a matter of Princess trying to hard or not hard enough - it's more of Princess' efforts being misdirected - by trying to be the cruise line that offers everything to everybody, they've had to dumb down their product and lower their prices to fill their ships.

 

I'm not sure that it started with the Carnival merger, but it certainly was on it's way. If you look at the promotional materials of the day, Grand Princess was built to be a premium, albeit large, ship. As soon as Grand Princess started sailing, Princess started building. The Carnival merge facilitated that by giving Princess the cash they needed to keep building (otherwise Caribbean Princess would have been their last ship for a while).

 

Carnival's issue was and is how to position Princess in the market - if it becomes a premium line, then it competes directly with HAL and Cunard, if it becomes a bargain line, then it's competing with Carnival itself.

 

I'd love to see Princess go back to the premium line they used to be - that's what hooked me in the first place. But there would have to be some major changes in the direction and business model of the company...and that's not going to happen unless people stop booking.

[earljr]

I...and that's not going to happen unless people stop booking.

 

Unfortunately I think you are right.

We have switched to HAL for our last cruise

(and next also)

But we will probably book Princess again in

the future unless things continue to go downhill

[bhopal21]

I don't think it's a matter of Princess trying to hard or not hard enough - it's more of Princess' efforts being misdirected - by trying to be the cruise line that offers everything to everybody, they've had to dumb down their product and lower their prices to fill their ships.

 

I'm not sure that it started with the Carnival merger, but it certainly was on it's way. If you look at the promotional materials of the day, Grand Princess was built to be a premium, albeit large, ship. As soon as Grand Princess started sailing, Princess started building. The Carnival merge facilitated that by giving Princess the cash they needed to keep building (otherwise Caribbean Princess would have been their last ship for a while).

 

Carnival's issue was and is how to position Princess in the market - if it becomes a premium line, then it competes directly with HAL and Cunard, if it becomes a bargain line, then it's competing with Carnival itself.

 

I'd love to see Princess go back to the premium line they used to be - that's what hooked me in the first place. But there would have to be some major changes in the direction and business model of the company...and that's not going to happen unless people stop booking.

 

The best post I have seen on the subject! Thanks for your insight Brian.

 

Mike:)

[caribill]

I'm not sure that it started with the Carnival merger, but it certainly was on it's way.

 

Carnival's issue was and is how to position Princess in the market - if it becomes a premium line, then it competes directly with HAL and Cunard, if it becomes a bargain line, then it's competing with Carnival itself.

 

 

Carnival Cruise Lines does not own or control Princess in any way.

 

Carnival Corporation owns Princess Cruise Lines. It also owns Carnival Cruise Lines.

[bdjam]

The best post I have seen on the subject! Thanks for your insight Brian.

 

Mike:)

Thank you sir, and it is good to see you...hope you've had a good holiday season.

 

I was just reading a thread about removing auto tips. There are also the threads we've all seen about dress guidelines, chair hogging, poor behavior from children and adults and the ever popular ignorance of smoking regulations. Princess' marketing strategy is not to go for the sophisticates of the cruising customer base. Many people enjoying Princess now don't care about a premium experience. And if Princess can - bottom line - satisfy shareholders by appealing to the masses, then that's what they are going to do.

 

Personally I have seen the changes but they've not adversely affected my cruise experience and I'm always happy to say that I'm paying now about the same I did many years ago for a comperable cruise. But I also know that you get what you pay for. It would be a shame to leave Princess because I have enjoyed my time sailing the cruise line. But if the experiences become less than enjoyable, there's no reason to keep going back.

[bdjam]

Carnival Cruise Lines does not own or control Princess in any way.

 

Carnival Corporation owns Princess Cruise Lines. It also owns Carnival Cruise Lines.

I understand that and I obviously didn't express it properly in my post.

[shofer]

Before I went on Princess, I thought it was defined by British officers and Italian chefs. A friend of mine who has been cruising with Princess for years would rave about the food, especially the pasta and the service.

 

We felt that way about Celebrity but with Greek officers and French chefs.

 

Our first cruise with Princess on 2007 met that expectation. We had a dessert souffle every night, The Princess Dream had the Sea Witch logo in gold and we had crab legs on a ship for the first and only time. Since then, it has all gone downhill. We are booked on the Island to Alaska in May and are dreading the menu changes in the MDR, the shorter shows and the general decline in service.

 

The only thing that is a big improvement is the International Cafe. Unfortunately this is not on the Island. This may very well be my last Princess cruise.

 

Sue

[Josy1953]

After 23 Princess cruises and we noticed that over the last 5 - 6 years Princess downgrading to the point where after a Grand Princess cruise in May 2012 we decided to check out other lines we went with P&O in July and Cunard in December. Princess can no longer be considered in the same class as either of these cruises for food, entertainment or service so we will sadly follow many other Princess Elite passengers and defect to the opposition. We have enjoyed most of our Princess cruises but they are now becoming to line of choice for passengers who are rowdy, impolite and often casual to the point of scruffy.

[Loonbeam]

Something to think about. Generally, in the world of vacation travelers particularly US and European, the number of people in the 'mid-class luxury travel' market is declining as a percentage of travelers. This is due to changes in middle class income over time, the aging of some demographics, and the expansion of options. Barring an economic miracle, this trend is expected to continue.

 

Providers have been aware of this for years. The mantra for business is 'go where the people are.' . There are simply not enough people who want a mid-class luxury line to support something of Princess' size unless a competitor fails. Which means they have to expand their market or perish.

 

I've said it before, the average regular user on CC is NOT representative of the average cruiser in terms of knowledge and often preferences.

[bdjam]

Providers have been aware of this for years. The mantra for business is 'go where the people are.' . There are simply not enough people who want a mid-class luxury line to support something of Princess' size unless a competitor fails. Which means they have to expand their market or perish.

 

I've said it before, the average regular user on CC is NOT representative of the average cruiser in terms of knowledge and often preferences.

I think Princess could be a totally successful cruise line if it was smaller and marketed to the premium customer. As I mentioned the original idea of "Grand Class Cruising" - which was actually ushered in with Sun Princess' inaugural in 1995 - was to offer a premium product on bigger ships that provided more options. The problem is that Princess created too many bigger ships and right, there aren't enough in the premium market to fill a cruise line with a mass market business profile. It's like a nice little neighborhood restaurant that expands and then goes out of business because the quality goes down the drain. Is the root cause greed?

Princess - even when it was a smaller cruise line - was always an innovator and many times inaugurated the largest passenger ships sailing. But it was a controlled size and so the premium product could be offered. I know it's a pipe dream, but if they were to sell off all of the mega-Grand ships and concentrate on a smaller operation, they could satisfy some of the complaints from long time passengers...what that might do to the per diem is a different story.

And I don’t like to point fingers, but it seems after Phillip Kleweno left the CEO position, the quality started to be chipped away from the product.

[swedish weave]

I think Princess could be a totally successful cruise line if it was smaller and marketed to the premium customer. As I mentioned the original idea of "Grand Class Cruising" - which was actually ushered in with Sun Princess' inaugural in 1995 - was to offer a premium product on bigger ships that provided more options. The problem is that Princess created too many bigger ships and right, there aren't enough in the premium market to fill a cruise line with a mass market business profile. It's like a nice little neighborhood restaurant that expands and then goes out of business because the quality goes down the drain. Is the root cause greed?

 

Princess - even when it was a smaller cruise line - was always an innovator and many times inaugurated the largest passenger ships sailing. But it was a controlled size and so the premium product could be offered. I know it's a pipe dream, but if they were to sell off all of the mega-Grand ships and concentrate on a smaller operation, they could satisfy some of the complaints from long time passengers...what that might do to the per diem is a different story.

 

And I don’t like to point fingers, but it seems after Phillip Kleweno left the CEO position, the quality started to be chipped away from the product.

 

I have a different view of the subject. Historically, the premier cruise lines have been swallowed up by the low cost mass market lines.

 

Princess took over Sitmar which was one of the upper level lines that couldn't survive, then Carnival stepped in with their money and took Princess which was trying to maintain a level above the mass market .

 

Consider the marketing strategy of many very successful companies (WalMart, Carnival, McDonalds, etc. Offer a product that appeals to the most people at the lowest possible price and success happens.

 

Another skeleton in the closet is NCL. They offered a product that was completely different from the norm, and caught the interest of the cruise industry. Now, you see many of their innovations being adopted by their competition because the public liked what NCL offered.

[Coral]

I think Princess could be a totally successful cruise line if it was smaller and marketed to the premium customer. As I mentioned the original idea of "Grand Class Cruising" - which was actually ushered in with Sun Princess' inaugural in 1995 - was to offer a premium product on bigger ships that provided more options. The problem is that Princess created too many bigger ships and right, there aren't enough in the premium market to fill a cruise line with a mass market business profile. It's like a nice little neighborhood restaurant that expands and then goes out of business because the quality goes down the drain. Is the root cause greed?

 

I agree with this. I also think Princess made the wrong decision to just take the "Grand class ship and add an extra deck, remove a cover over the pool and change a few small areas around such as the piazza". For the most part our choices right now are "Grand class ships" and "Grand class ships with an extra deck on them and no indoor pool". There was no imagination whatsoever in the Caribbean Princess and later ships (not including the new Royal)

 

They really should have gone to the drawing board like the other lines did and re-design a new ship as opposed to the Grand plus ships. For me, it seems almost too late with the Royal. This should have been done years ago.

[nich3cats]

Have enjoyed several cruises on Princess but the one thing that is making me jump ship to Celebrity is MUTS. Can not take one more cruise where a concert or sports activity is blaring at me.

[LBL]

I agree with bdjam. Princess was premium without a stuffy feel about it. But it did show respect of the way people thought about cruising. Unforturnately with so many people being able to cruise much of the industry dumbed it down. One point is that being a waiter was a profession in Europe and waiters provide service and help to enhance a meal. Many people now think of waiters as servers that add nothing to the dining experience. Much is going that way. The plus is that I still think overall Princess has the best crew at sea.

[kkorman]

Glad you posted this. Thought I was the only one feeling this way.

 

LuLu

~~~~

 

It is interesting to see different perspectives... I disliked Emerald and I am looking forward to Royal.

[kkorman]

Hi All

 

Question, If Carnival lets the brands

 

HAL, Carnival and Princess do there own thing, providing they make the return required, will they not all at some point become very similar,

 

does Carnival need to say

 

do your own thing but make your target cruiser

 

Carnival first time cruiser and under 30s budget cruising

 

Princess family 30 to 50 main stream

 

HAL 50 plus higher end

 

yours Shogun

 

Haven't they already become too similar? There was once a distinct difference between the three and now, not much... Especially Princess and HAL.