Cruising without a Passport is just nutz!

[tulsacubfan]

So if you look at it from a cost over it's lifetime it is really cheap. Like $11.00 a year. I would not even think twice - get a passport!!! I can't imagine leaving your country without one.

 

that is "assuming" you use it yearly. If you are only using once, it is an additional $135 expense (a first time passport is $135). Or if you want to look at it as $13.50 a year, you paid $13.50 for the year you used it, then kept up the "subscription" for an additional 9 years without ever using it.

[tulsacubfan]

Are you also bemused by the act that no passport is required to travel within the Schengen area in Europe? Should citizens of Schengen countries also get a passport if traveling internationally with that area even though their governments allow them to travel without one?

 

Why not try treating adults like adults and allow them to use whatever documentation is permitted by their government rather than looking down your nose at them with a holier-than-thou attitude? I can guarantee out that lots of Brits and Kiwis would take advantage of laws allowing them to do limited international travel without a passport if such laws existed.

 

Best comment I have ever seen on the passport issue!

[tulsacubfan]

Many Americans 'just accept' they should have a passport and go about their business of getting one. You don't hear so much from them because they have no issue to discuss. They wish to travel internationally so they get the recognized best personal ID....... a passport. They don't need to ask if 'they need a passport?" They have one.

 

 

International travel that requires a passport....they get one. Closed loop cruises today do not require one.....and yes, there are people that live in the United States that take closed loop cruises, but do not travel internationally on a plane or some other mode of transportation that requires a passport...and have no intention or desire to do so. If they change their mind in the future, they will get one.

 

And yes, I have a passport and have had for 25 years. Because I have one, I do use it for cruising. But if I didn't have one, I probably would not get one just for cruising.

[celle]

The passport card is a child of the Western Hemisphere Travel Initiative, which strengthened US border controls as a result of new post 9/11 laws requiring all travellers to provde proof of identity and citizenship and the US border.

 

In response to concerns voiced by both Canadian and US border communities, the passport card was created as a lower cost alternative to complying with WHTI when crossing the border by land. The Canadian Government suggested the passport card also be accepted for air travel, but the Department of State declined.

 

There was also lobbying from the cruise industry to create the closed-loop exception allowing travel with just a birth certificate and photo ID.

 

This creates a patchwork of regulations but reflects the concerns raised by US citizens and border countries (chiefly Canada). It also reflects the geographic reality of a single, continent-sized country (USA) with its largest trading partner to the north (Canada). The US is so vast, with so many travel options within its borders, it can thus be argued that US citizens do not have the same need to travel internationally as citizens of other countries.

 

Hence the never-ending question on Cruise Critic, "Do I need a passport?" :)

 

Thank you for a reasoned and intelligent response to my post.

[celle]

Yes, it's perfectly OK for you to attack and insult Americans in general, because that's not an attack on any one person. :rolleyes:

 

It's so typical of the arrogant attitude displayed by so many Brits, Kiwis and Ozzies on this board who think their way of doing things is the only way.

 

I suggest you look up the meaning of "bemused". It means puzzled, perplexed, confused, or several similar words. It is not a criticism of Americans, which you obviously mistook it for. Nor was I looking down my nose at anyone. It was a simple comment on the frequency of the questions about passport requirements.

 

Yes, I criticised the American government, for creating so much possible confusion around passport regulations. That's not allowed? Most people feel free to ctiticise governments, their own or those of other countries.

 

As for your last comment - we Brits, Kiwis, Aussies (and Canadians) are a small minority on CC boards. We aren't entitled to an opinion? Try to keep your xenophobia in check.

[zekekelso]

We are going to resurrect this oft discussed topic.

 

Did this work out how you expected?

 

Anyway, for many families a passport is a $135 per person expense that can prevent a 1-in-1,000 chance of a ruined cruise. Some families consider that a reasonable expense... some won't. Please trust people to make the right decision for their own family and don't insult them.

[Galveston Cruiser]

Play nice children:o

My 2 year old grandsons act better than those of you berating one another.

Who cares who has what:rolleyes:

[Going Coastal]

Hooisercouple,

Sounds as if you and your your young friend are all in for a wonderful trip. What an admirable group all around.

 

Sent from my KFTT using Tapatalk 2

[dread_pirate]

The only reason I care is if passengers without passports somehow affect my ability to get home in case of an emergency. If those passengers enter into the calculus of where to take a disabled ship, then I care. If the cruise line ignores them when making the decision, then you're right, I don't care. If the cruise line charters a plane to get its passengers home from a foreign country but won't let it leave with people who have passports, until the passengers who don't can travel home as well, then I care.

 

It's the same as the old line, "Your right to swing your arms ends where my nose begins."

 

I care only when your "assumption of the risk" means that I also assume your risks. If it never does, then do as you wish. But my scenarios are not all that far-fetched.

[Warm Breezes]

The only reason I care is if passengers without passports somehow affect my ability to get home in case of an emergency. If those passengers enter into the calculus of where to take a disabled ship, then I care. If the cruise line ignores them when making the decision, then you're right, I don't care. If the cruise line charters a plane to get its passengers home from a foreign country but won't let it leave with people who have passports, until the passengers who don't can travel home as well, then I care.

 

It's the same as the old line, "Your right to swing your arms ends where my nose begins."

 

I care only when your "assumption of the risk" means that I also assume your risks. If it never does, then do as you wish. But my scenarios are not all that far-fetched.

 

Let's think about your scenarios logically for a minute. First lets take the number of closed-loop cruises with passengers without passports on-board that have sailed since WHTI was passed. Then let's divide that by the number of times your scenarios have actually happened. IMHO, with those odds, yes your scenarios are far-fetched.

 

Another angle to look at logically. Let's look at what happened on the Triumph. 900 passengers without passports all getting dropped off at a port that was not the one they originated from. Therefore it was no longer a closed-loop cruise. A direct violation of the WHTI closed-loop exception. In order for them to get off the boat, the government would have to waive the WHTI passport requirements. The same as if they had gotten taken to Progresso. And yet they all got off the boat with the people with passports, neither were held up because of lack of passports....don't you think if they would have gotten taken to Progresso, the government would have handled it in the same way in order to get their citizens home from a foreign country in an emergency? If anything Progresso would have been a logistic nightmare for the cruiseline....between finding hotels, busses, and charter planes...they were probably happy to have the current give them a reasonable excuse to head to Mobile instead. FYI...it would take more than one plane to get all those passengers home....I'm sure the ones with clearance (passports) would be on the first planes out of there.

 

I can't imagine living with the irrational fear of things happening. Especially things with as low of a probability of happening as your scenarios have. Can they happen? Sure, anything can happen....Are they far-fetched? IMHO Yes... and I for one, will not waste a second of my time worrying that they will. I feel sorry for those who do.

[Hlitner]

Let's think about your scenarios logically for a minute. .....................................

 

I can't imagine living with the irrational fear of things happening. Especially things with as low of a probability of happening as your scenarios have. Can they happen? Sure, anything can happen....Are they far-fetched? IMHO Yes... and I for one, will not waste a second of my time worrying that they will. I feel sorry for those who do.

 

Me thinks you missed the point of my OP that started this thread. We do a lot of cruising and have personally witnessed several folks left stranded at both Miami and Ft Lauderdale because the authorities refused to accept their documentation. My OP references a recent post about this on the HA web site. The idea of investing in a Passport (we are talking about something that ends up costing about $20 a year) is to simply eliminate a worry. When we are in a queue at a port and overhear fellow passengers speculating "I wonder if our documents will be OK?" it makes us think,,,why put yourself into a position where there is a concern.

 

One other thought. If you are denied boarding due to insufficient documentation (and remember, this is left completely to the judgment of a cruise line employee) there is no appeal. You are literally left standing at the port and you must get back home at your own expense. You also sacrifice the entire cost of you cruise. Fruit for thought?

 

And yes, we ourselves also witnessed an unfortunate incident on a 10 day closed-loop Caribbean cruise. The passengers (tablemates) had a serious illness in the family and needed to get home in the middle of a cruise when the next 2 ports were Aruba and St Maarten. They were not able to leave the cruise to go home because they had no passports which meant they could not fly home from either port.

 

Hank

[smeyer418]

The only reason I care is if passengers without passports somehow affect my ability to get home in case of an emergency. If those passengers enter into the calculus of where to take a disabled ship, then I care. If the cruise line ignores them when making the decision, then you're right, I don't care. If the cruise line charters a plane to get its passengers home from a foreign country but won't let it leave with people who have passports, until the passengers who don't can travel home as well, then I care.

 

It's the same as the old line, "Your right to swing your arms ends where my nose begins."

 

I care only when your "assumption of the risk" means that I also assume your risks. If it never does, then do as you wish. But my scenarios are not all that far-fetched.

 

I am definitely pro passport but you are just wrong about why this decision was made. The US State department can and does issue authorizations to travel without passports all the time. Its my understanding that for the Triumph the decision to issue this had already been made and it would not have held any one up at all.

We cruise with the above two without passports all the time. the trips usually are from NYC to Florida and the Bahamas. they don't even have picture ids. The risk of us having to fly home internationally are extremely small.

Yes its better and easier if every one has a passport. The problem is American paranoia and refusal to get them. Is it nutz to travel without them? is it nutz not to them off the ship? reasonable people can disagree on that too. Is it safer to have a passport? sometimes but I must tell you the same story can be told of people who have washed them and brought them to the pier and been refused since the passport is damaged and void.

[Warm Breezes]

Me thinks you missed the point of my OP that started this thread. We do a lot of cruising and have personally witnessed several folks left stranded at both Miami and Ft Lauderdale because the authorities refused to accept their documentation. My OP references a recent post about this on the HA web site. The idea of investing in a Passport (we are talking about something that ends up costing about $20 a year) is to simply eliminate a worry. When we are in a queue at a port and overhear fellow passengers speculating "I wonder if our documents will be OK?" it makes us think,,,why put yourself into a position where there is a concern.

 

One other thought. If you are denied boarding due to insufficient documentation (and remember, this is left completely to the judgment of a cruise line employee) there is no appeal. You are literally left standing at the port and you must get back home at your own expense. You also sacrifice the entire cost of you cruise. Fruit for thought?

 

And yes, we ourselves also witnessed an unfortunate incident on a 10 day closed-loop Caribbean cruise. The passengers (tablemates) had a serious illness in the family and needed to get home in the middle of a cruise when the next 2 ports were Aruba and St Maarten. They were not able to leave the cruise to go home because they had no passports which meant they could not fly home from either port.

 

Hank

 

Actually I was responding to dread-pirate in that post you referenced not your OP...I was not missing dread-pirate's point. I responded to your OP earlier. Again as I said earlier when I replied to your OP the responsibility of making sure you have the correct documentation remains with the passenger who chooses to sail without the passport. Along with rights come responsibilty. We have sailed 9 times without one and have never worried that we had incorrect documentation because I made sure we had it right before we left....that is what a responsible person does. I don't need fruit for thought and I don't have worries about what we have.

 

As for the illness at home....that is why each passenger needs to assess their own level for risk taking. We tell people when we leave on a cruise that once we are on the ship we are on it for the duration. If anything happens at home we will deal with what we can on the ship and with what we can't when we get home. Like I said previously, we are not willing to take that chance when we leave our teens at home for the first time alone. They are both relatively new drivers and IMHO they have a higher probability of something happening to them driving to college and dance than I have of getting stuck on an island for an extended period of time. For this reason alone, DH and I will be getting passports for that cruise because that is a higher risk than I am willing to take.

 

The point you are missing is that the government gives me the right to choose how much risk I am willing to take. I am a responsible adult who can make informed decisions on my own and if I am willing to take that extremely small risk, that the government allows me to take, why do you care????

[zekekelso]

Me thinks you missed the point of my OP that started this thread.

 

What was the point of starting the thread? Surely you've seen enough of these to know what always happens. You weren't going to change anybody's mind... you were just going to insult people who make different choices than you, and just give a forum for other everybody-must-have-a-passport posters to insult people.

Passports don't cost $20/year if you don't use them frequently. For many, they are a one-time hassle and expense of $135 per person.

That expense gets rid of a very small chance of something going wrong. You think that expense is worth it. Other people don't. They aren't stupid, they aren't nuts. They are thoughtful, intelligent people who have analyzed the pros and cons and come to a different conclusion.

Please respect the choices other people make, and don't start insult fests.

[zekekelso]

I care only when your "assumption of the risk" means that I also assume your risks. If it never does, then do as you wish. But my scenarios are not all that far-fetched.

 

Fill in the blanks please:

 

Number of passengers who have gone on a cruise w/o a passport_________

Number of times a passenger w/o a passport has affected another passenger's ability to get home from an emergency__________

[tulsacubfan]

What was the point of starting the thread? Surely you've seen enough of these to know what always happens. You weren't going to change anybody's mind... you were just going to insult people who make different choices than you, and just give a forum for other everybody-must-have-a-passport posters to insult people.

 

Passports don't cost $20/year if you don't use them frequently. For many, they are a one-time hassle and expense of $135 per person.

 

That expense gets rid of a very small chance of something going wrong. You think that expense is worth it. Other people don't. They aren't stupid, they aren't nuts. They are thoughtful, intelligent people who have analyzed the pros and cons and come to a different conclusion.

 

Please respect the choices other people make, and don't start insult fests.

 

I was going to post pretty much the same thing...however I could not have said it as well. So, will just "ditto" your post.

[Northshorecruisers]

Long disputed, but I agree you should have a passport. However, I'm beginning to think:

 

- if you purchase the cheapest cruise you can find

- you worry about how much booze you can smuggle on board

- you buy all sorts of containers to smuggle your booze

- and you're too cheap to buy a passport

 

You deserve to be denied boarding (but you'll have lots of booze you brought from home) or left at the dock when you couldn't be back at the ship on time.

[SMerritt]

Not true--An international treaty that the US and Canada are both party to requires the absent parent to provide a notarized letter of consent to remove the children from the country.

 

You beat me to this, thank you

 

We saw a family denied boarding due to them not having notarized permission from the "X"

 

Also, many do not know if they are bringing a minor "friend" along - extra "permissions" are necessary

[SadieN]

I am definitely pro passport but you are just wrong about why this decision was made. The US State department can and does issue authorizations to travel without passports all the time. Its my understanding that for the Triumph the decision to issue this had already been made and it would not have held any one up at all.

We cruise with the above two without passports all the time. the trips usually are from NYC to Florida and the Bahamas. they don't even have picture ids. The risk of us having to fly home internationally are extremely small.

Yes its better and easier if every one has a passport. The problem is American paranoia and refusal to get them. Is it nutz to travel without them? is it nutz not to them off the ship? reasonable people can disagree on that too. Is it safer to have a passport? sometimes but I must tell you the same story can be told of people who have washed them and brought them to the pier and been refused since the passport is damaged and void.

emphasis mine

 

Cute kids.:)

 

Kids under 16 do not need picture ID.

[Warm Breezes]

Long disputed, but I agree you should have a passport. However, I'm beginning to think:

 

- if you purchase the cheapest cruise you can find

- you worry about how much booze you can smuggle on board

- you buy all sorts of containers to smuggle your booze

- and you're too cheap to buy a passport

 

You deserve to be denied boarding (but you'll have lots of booze you brought from home) or left at the dock when you couldn't be back at the ship on time.

 

I believe in the freedom of choice to get a passport, or not, for closed-loop cruise based on the laws as they currently are...having said that, if you are not responsible enough to make sure you have the proper documentation then you should be denied boarding (it has nothing to do with how much you paid for a cruise or if you decide to break the rules by smuggling alcohol.)

 

I also believe if you are not responsible enough to make sure you get to the port on time then you deserve to be left behind, whether you have a passport or not. If there was an emergency that caused you to miss then you would need to deal with the emergency whether you had a passport or not. If you choose not to have a passport then you would have some extra red tape...but that was your choice and dealing with the consequences of your choices are your responsiblity. That's life....finding a deal on a cruise or smuggling alcohol have nothing to do this issue.

[dwjoe]

Long disputed, but I agree you should have a passport. However, I'm beginning to think:

 

- if you purchase the cheapest cruise you can find

- you worry about how much booze you can smuggle on board

- you buy all sorts of containers to smuggle your booze

- and you're too cheap to buy a passport

 

You deserve to be denied boarding (but you'll have lots of booze you brought from home) or left at the dock when you couldn't be back at the ship on time.

Cruise price and booze smuggling are not relevant to this thread.

 

If you choose not to buy a passport, you accept the risks of travelling without one. Hopefully, this thread has helped educate people as to those risks as well as options available.

 

I think the focus of Cruise Critic should be on sharing information with other cruisers rather than judging them.

[momofmeg]

Colombia? Why would that country be in the discussion? It's nowhere near where the Triumph was located.Any cruise that has Colombia on the itinerary would require the passengers to have a passport anyway.

 

Mexico allows cruise ship passengers to enter the country without a passport, so that wasn't an issue as long as the passengers were not staying overnight in Mexico.

 

Well when Princess does her 10 day partial Panama canal(roundtrip Ft. lauderdale) she goes to Columbia. I think that was the person's point. What if you did not have a passport and something happened on that cruise?

[njhorseman]

Well when Princess does her 10 day partial Panama canal(roundtrip Ft. lauderdale) she goes to Columbia. I think that was the person's point. What if you did not have a passport and something happened on that cruise?

 

Nothing different would happen. The cruise line would make arrangements with the governments involved for blanket permission to evacuate passengers from the stricken ship and fly home.

[momofmeg]

Nothing different would happen. The cruise line would make arrangements with the governments involved for blanket permission to evacuate passengers from the stricken ship and fly home.

 

Well sweetie-don't worry about having passport. I am sure YOU do not need one.

 

However, I am glad I have mine. I am sick of the Caribbean/Bahamas and prefer elsewhere.

 

On our Med cruise last summer we met a couple who lives in the Atlanta area like us, who booked the cruise only 3 weeks out. Why? Because they got a balcony stateroom 12 day cruise and airfare for $1800 each. (bought airefare through cruiseline) All I could say was WOW to that!

 

I will be checking for deals like that now!

[Warm Breezes]

Well sweetie-don't worry about having passport. I am sure YOU do not need one.

 

However, I am glad I have mine. I am sick of the Caribbean/Bahamas and prefer elsewhere.

 

On our Med cruise last summer we met a couple who lives in the Atlanta area like us, who booked the cruise only 3 weeks out. Why? Because they got a balcony stateroom 12 day cruise and airfare for $1800 each. (bought airefare through cruiseline) All I could say was WOW to that!

 

I will be checking for deals like that now!

 

That works for people who can travel at the last minute. Some of us cannot do that...let alone being able to take off work for 12+ days. DH & I have to book our vacations at least 8-12 months in advance so he can get the time off of work and even then getting more than a week off at a time would be nearly impossible with my work schedule. Now when we retire, that will be a different story and we will have passports in hand ready to go whereever we want to for however long we want to:D. ..but unfortunately that is quite a few years away yet.

 

My point is that every person has different needs when it comes to travel. Some at this point in their lives are only doing closed loop cruises when traveling out of the USA. Some with a family, find it cost prohibitive when just taking short cruises to the Caribbean or Mexico for a family vacation. Some of us do not feel the risk justifies the cost for those types of trips. There is nothing wrong with that and if that is the only international travel they are doing, then they have the right to choose not to get a passport. Others choose differently and get a passport....nothing wrong with that either. Its their choice based on their needs and their willingness to take on risk.

 

The passport benefit of being able to take advantage of last minute deals....it just isn't a benefit to some people whose work schedules make that benefit impossible to take advantage of. I'm one of those people. We will be getting passports soon because IMHO the risk of something happening to my 2 teens home alone for the first time when DH and I go on our Anniversary Cruise, especially since they are both relatively new drivers and they will have places they will need to drive to, is much greater than DH & I getting stranded on a foreign island. But even having a passport, there is no way we would be able to travel at the last minute during the next 10 years...so that benefit will be totally wasted on us. I'm glad you can take advantage of it...I sure wish I could too.