Park West is back on Celebrity?

[wwcruisers]

A great book on this topic is Brian David Bruns' "Ship for Brains". It's the second book in his "Cruise Confidential" series, and describes his time as an onboard art auctioneer. A very entertaining and enlightening read. :cool:

[gregjm]

We just got off the Solstice and I have a word of advice to future Solstice cruisers: Don't enter the "guess the value of the Picasso" contest on day one. They will use your information to leave 3 or 4 messages a day in your stateroom voicemail, delivery daily personalized invitations to attend "special" events, etc.

 

Also, on past cruises the Auctions were held in the Art gallery area on Deck 5. With Park West they cram so much art into this area before the auction that it takes over the adjoining bar area and public walkway by the other shops. They are constantly running around putting up and taking down art in the hallway that many times there are just the dangling wires waiting for the days selection of art.

 

I used to appreciate the classy atmosphere of this area where you could wander through it on your way to dinner or after a day of activities; now they have so many Park West employees that on at least three occasions on our May 17th cruise we were unable to even casually look without a hard sell.

 

Park West also takes over the Sky Lounge on several occasions and fills it with their "art" for preview events and auctions, so you now have both the space on deck 5 and the Sky Lounge being utilized by them. The sky lounge used to be a great place to go and relax during the day; that has become a thing of the past based on last weeks experience.

 

We did sit in on the first 30 minutes of one of the auctions and I found it very humorous how the auctioneer made sure that his reading all of the disclaimers was being videotaped. I also loved his "NO INTEREST" credit offer that PARK WEST was offering (when in fact it was simply a credit card application with GE credit services)

 

I'm not adverse to an occasional and tastefully done onboard art auctions. In fact, I have purchased two pieces of art on previous X cruises---not for investment, but for my enjoyment.

 

That said, I avoided the Park West auctions because of the obvious high pressure and circus like atmosphere created by the auctioneer and his hyperactive assistants. I hope X reconsiders the amount of precious onboard real estate they let Park West remove from the general enjoyment of guests who have absolutely no interest in the auctions.

[Algebralovr]

Sadly, you don't have to enter that contest to be flooded with voicemail and paper advertising. We got plenty of both on Reflection in Feb 2013 (where they had a somewhat dedicated space on 4) and on Solstice (where they took over part of what used to be seating for the Molecular bar).

 

Definitely an utter waste of space. I hope they are paying Celebrity a lot of $$$ for the privilege of being there, but wish they would go away.

[ghstudio]

For us, it really cheapens the cruise....it's something I'd expect on Carnival, NCL, Costa...but not celebrity. It's really akin to fleecing the sheep because so many don't understand art values and believe whatever the park west folks say or print in their brochures which isn't untrue but values are overstated and artists credentials are written to give the impression that you are buying the equivalent of a Rembrant. My advice, and I'm not alone in this recommendation, is if you really like something, buy it, but assume that when you pass away or give it as a valuable piece of art to a charity, it will likely have a value less than you paid.

[iancal]

We do not really care one way or the other.

 

We would not even buy a post card from Park West. We have read a fair amount on the web about their business practices, their 'value', etc. that made our decision rather straight forward.

[POPDISPLAY]

Cruise Ship Art Auctioneer Park West Losesby Paul Motter | April 22, 2010

 

A Michigan jury rules in favor of Fine Art Registry who claims cruise ship art auctioneers have been selling fraudulent works.

 

Last night a Michigan jury ruled unanimously in favor of Phoenix, AZ-based Fine Art Registry in a lawsuit brought against them by Park West Galleries, the purveyors of art auctions onboard several cruise ships. Fine Art Registry (FAR) had accused Park West of supplying the onboard art auctions with fake Salvador Dali prints that were essentially worthless, and said the Michigan art seller had bilked hundreds of cruisers out of millions of dollars in total by selling the fraudulent art pieces.

 

In the counterclaim brought by Fine Art Registry against Park West the judge did not award any damages, but he did order Park West to pay Fine Art Registry $500,000 for trademark infringement saying Park West had illegally used FAR's trademark in sponsored links in search engines. Park West was apparently trying to steer searchers away from the negative reports about the Gallery on the FAR web sites, including a special site devoted solely to Park West called SalvadorDaliFakes.com.

 

That site showed the entire history of a huge collection of supposed Dali Prints that Park West says it acquired and authenticated as true Salvador Dali artwork. Fine Art Registry's web site not only showed how the pieces in question were denounced as forgeries many times over, but it also showed the many ways in which the Park West had endeavored to circumvent the legal process by hiring their own experts and writing their own appraisals. The conclusion drawn on the web site was that Park West cruise ship art auctions were fraudulent and sales were not handled according guidelines normally affiliated with legal due process as defined by U.S. Statutes for art auctioneers such as Sotheby's or Christie's.

 

 

 

Fine Art Registry even alleged that by all appearances Park West has been making and selling prints that it was forging with the Salvador Dali signature while telling cruisers the prints were hand-signed by Dali, the artist. Many people spent as much as $20,000 on just one print, and one witness in the trial purchased an entire set of the Dali prints from a Park West auction aboard a Royal Caribbean ship for over $500,000 and is still hoping to get a refund.

 

The jury did not specifically say that the Dali prints are fake, but by denying Park West's defamation claim against Fine Art Registry it is safe to assume that the jury found the prints to have little to no value monetary value, despite the claims by Park West.

 

It will be very interesting to see where the cruise lines and Park West go from here, whether they takes the Dali prints off the market and start offering refunds, or if they stay the course. It will also be very interesting to see what the cruise lines decide to do now that it is evident a jury is not likely to rule in favor of Park West in several forthcoming class action lawsuits regarding the sales of misrepresented artwork.

 

Teri Franks, the CEO of FAR said to Crain's Detroit Business "I'm overwhelmed. We went through three years of hell with this company (Park West), and I was honored by the witnesses and experts who came and helped us from around the country and all over the world. This was a company with three law firms and we were in a classic David and Goliath case, and I feel like we kicked rear-end today."

 

Frank's lawyer, Jonathan Schwartz, hailed the jury's findings as a win and a possible indicator of the strength of the several class action lawsuits to follow. His firm is representing 10 art buyers in a civil lawsuit at Oakland County Circuit Court.

 

"We mounted a defense of truth in the defamation case, and were able to bring witnesses and experts to support the claims that were made (online)," he said. "The (parties) are going to take a look at the buyer claims on a case by case basis, but if Park West wants to present this same case as a defense to those allegations, the outcome today might say something about the strength of presenting that defense," Schwartz told Crain's Business.

 

Park West had decided to try the Fine Art Registry defamation case first in hopes that a win would make those other cases much less likely to succeed. Now it appears that strategy was probably not well conceived.

 

Apparently, the art auction business started small but grew to a peak in the early 2000s when sales reached as high as $300 million per year or more for cruise ship art auctions alone. The profits started diminishing when questions of authenticity concerning the Park West product arose in the news along with the economic meltdown. In the last few years Park West's profits have dropped significantly. Last month (March 2010) Disney Cruise Lines officially ended their affiliation with Park west without comment. But most other major cruise lines still use them including Carnival, Royal Caribbean, NCL, Celebrity, Oceania and more. The only line we know of at CruiseMates that holds art auctions but does not use Park West is Princess Cruises.

 

On a personal note, we started warning our readers about these art auctions back in early 2007 when the Fine Art Registry controversy was just getting started. Like so many others, we attended an art auction and were shocked by the prices we saw Park West asking for the art they were selling. I was on Carnival Cruise Lines and they were trying to sell a Picasso for $30,000 (as I recall). I asked the auctioneer's assistant this question, "There cannot be that many of these in the world, why would you have this one valuable piece on this Carnival Cruise ship?" Carnival is a very mainstream cruise line, frankly. She replied, "Because our studies have shown that this is the exact ship with the most sophisticated art buyers." Right, and I'm Queen Elizabeth - and it was an inaugural cruise.

 

So, that day I personally took video of an auctioneer offering a Dali print, which I would only later find out was one of the Dali prints in question. With the bids starting at $18,000 the auctioneer referred to the small drawing as "very, very, very, very collectable." I don't believe the piece sold that day, but the auction was authentic. My picture taking was shut down within minutes.

 

During the trial several witnesses told the jury about a number of practices conducted by Park West before, during and after the auctions that would never be allowed in a legitimate art auction in the United States. For example, the "appraisal" of the pieces sold were signed by the owner of Park West Galleries, Albert Scaglione, himself. By law, an appraisal must be made by an independent third party with expertise in the field of art and the specific artist.

 

Albert Scaglione is said to have regularly "appraised" his own gallery's art work at about 90% over the price one of his pieces normally sells for in the open market, regardless of the artist. The Dali pieces in question, even if their authenticity had been more convincing, would have been worth closer to $1000 apiece.

[lais]

On our cruise last month I noticed that they had the same artworks that they had on a cruise I was on several years ago. AND, I heard people bidding $1200 for some of this stuff. I was wondering if some of these people were a set up trying to influence other people to buy???

[ghstudio]

On our cruise last month I noticed that they had the same artworks that they had on a cruise I was on several years ago. AND, I heard people bidding $1200 for some of this stuff. I was wondering if some of these people were a set up trying to influence other people to buy???

 

Oh, Park West would never stoop to shill bidding...perish the thought.

[DebbieMacG]

We just got off the Eclipse and they were onboard. We got sick of the repeated mailers to the cabin, I wish we could have opted out of these as they were almost daily.

 

The auctioneer was a slimy South African guy who I wouldn't buy a pencil from, I overheard him in Cafe al Bacio talking to a senior officer about business stuff, interesting to listen to (I don't think they realised how loud they spoke and the cafe was empty apart from us!) and although I won't repeat what I heard "someone was having to do a lot of explaining!"

 

They lower the tone of the ship, Celebrity should get rid of them :mad:

[ghstudio]

We just got off the Eclipse and they were onboard. We got sick of the repeated mailers to the cabin, I wish we could have opted out of these as they were almost daily.

 

The auctioneer was a slimy South African guy who I wouldn't buy a pencil from, I overheard him in Cafe al Bacio talking to a senior officer about business stuff, interesting to listen to (I don't think they realised how loud they spoke and the cafe was empty apart from us!) and although I won't repeat what I heard "someone was having to do a lot of explaining!"

 

They lower the tone of the ship, Celebrity should get rid of them :mad:

 

a lot of explaining about not producing enough revenue; a lot of explaining about the space they took up on the ship; a lot of explaining that the ship had so many complaints?????

 

Or was the officer trying to explain why the passengers were boycotting Park West or something else.

 

Don't leave us hanging....

[iancal]

I am always amazed at how dense some people are when it comes to believing the phoney 'appraisals' that the sellers of so called fine art and better quality jewelry attach to their wares.

 

Do people on vacation suspend their disbelief when on a vacation-especially a cruise vacation?

 

They must because people seem to buy this schlocky sales pitch and the Islands are full of generous jewelers who sell at 60 off list, today only, special below cost for cruise passengers, etc.

 

You would need some professional help if you actually believed that you were buying a piece of art or a piece of jewelry at 60/80 percent off the actual retail value.

 

But, if it helps keep the price of my balcony cabin low then so be it.

[POPDISPLAY]

If the so-called art that the onboard "auction" companies are proffering to the passengers was such a great opportunity for financial return on investment, why are they bothering to sell their inventory?

 

I've heard the 20% annualized appreciation statistic first hand.

 

If an auction house sells $300,000,000 of "art" per year, wouldn't the same auction house realize a gain of $60,000,000 by just sitting on their inventory? Said gain accruing without the overhead costs of paying auctioneers, providing cheap sparkling wine to the passengers, and issuing commissions to the cruise lines.

 

I'm on an upcoming X cruise. It might be fun to attend the "auctions" and watch the audience from the perspective of the auctioneer.

 

I've attended a number of Park West's land based auctions. We always enjoyed the show and the free food and drinks.

[wendyatpml]

We have bought some Art from Park West and had a great experience with them. We were on the Solstice before Park West was with them and this other company was so boring, had art that was definately not our taste and the prices were so way above anything I've ever seen. People were just not buying nor were they going to these auctions.

 

I am very Glad Park West is back. Looking foward to going to their Art Auctions on our Sept. 14 Italy,Greek Islands cruise.

[BosoxI]

We were on a Princess cruise two years ago and stumbled onto a guest artist program. The fellow was on board and actually was painting a café scene which was then put up for sale. Very interesting. We liked the works he had on board and we enjoyed talking to him, as his escape from Russia into Italy and then to the USA was fascinating. I have no idea of the value of his product but many were original oils, others lithographs,, etc. A much better program than what Celebrity is offering with Park West. Worst of all is the "champagne" offered at the PW auctions.

[gregjm]

I would love to know how much Celebrity makes off the art auctions on an "average" 7 day sailing.

 

I havent minded the art auctions in the past because they did not intrude on the rest of the cruise. X has obviously decided that Park West has carte blanche when it comes to taking over large spaces and pestering the passengers with unwanted voicemails and mail left at your stateroom door.

[cruisestitch]

I wish that Celebrity could create a "do not call" list such as we have in the US to keep unwanted telephone calls from interrupting our days -- I'd sign up! And then a "no junk mail" notation at my door and if enough of us signed up for that maybe we would stop getting sales literature in the form of phony "invitations" from the spa and the jewelry store and the art auctioneer.:p

[shipshape sam]

I asked the question partly because I couldn't believe it.

 

Park West is involved in lawsuits and some cruise lines have been sued as well...might it cost them more than the revenue if a Jury decides to set an example? Especially when new contracts are signed after fraud has been proven...does that make sense?

 

I guess your guilty by indictment vs trial. Not that I have much sympathy for art auction and other carnival barkers. :)

 

When was fraud proven?

[wander]

For the space they use and the crew time spent setting-up and taking down stuff each auction day, the cruise lines obviously make good money! I have no use for the on-board auctions, but am always amazed at the "regulars" that seem to attend each auction (I always glance at them as I walk by). Like many topics, I suspect that CC folks who comment are not as representative of cruisers and we might like to think.

 

On a recent cruise I did hear a comment near the end - well, now I have to go and meet with the Park West folks to settle my $6,000 bill and arrange for shipping my pictures home.

[shipshape sam]

For the space they use and the crew time spent setting-up and taking down stuff each auction day, the cruise lines obviously make good money! I have no use for the on-board auctions, but am always amazed at the "regulars" that seem to attend each auction (I always glance at them as I walk by). Like many topics, I suspect that CC folks who comment are not as representative of cruisers and we might like to think.

 

On a recent cruise I did hear a comment near the end - well, now I have to go and meet with the Park West folks to settle my $6,000 bill and arrange for shipping my pictures home.

 

I know of a couple who "like" the art auctions and purchased over the years a number of paintings/prints by a particular artist. They felt they had gotten good deals. For me, I think they enjoyed the paintings/prints and enjoyed viewing them in their homes, so for them it was a good value.

 

I am still amazed that the 'barkers' tell the attendees that the painting is worth $5,000 for example, but we will sell it today for $1,500. WHY would anyone discount something that much IF the true value is $5k. Value maybe the $1.5k

 

I have never had a problem with the art auctions, never sat through one or drank the champagne. :)

[BMT]

Just off the Eclipse and survived 10 mins in the art auction. The noise was incredible....gave us a headache!! Auctioneer constantly banged his gavel against a metal board fixed to his podium and his 'colleagues' kept whooping and shouting.

 

Anything less classy has yet to be imagined. More like street traders.:D:D

 

Raffles and idiotic questions for raffle tickets.....I think they are desperate!! Certainly made Bingo look upscale!!!:D:D

 

Don't really object in principle as its not forced on me.....however, I can't help wondering how people feel when they get home and find they have paid thousands of dollars for a poster. Call it what you like....its not original art unless its an oil or watercolour etc.

 

I seem to remember that once upon a time, Princess had a policy where they would buy back at the price you paid. Perhaps they are not Park West though.

[ghstudio]

I can't help wondering how people feel when they get home and find they have paid thousands of dollars for a poster. Call it what you like....its not original art unless its an oil or watercolour etc.

 

Not exactly true....there are many posters that have appreciated greatly over time and some limited editions of engravings or lithographs have a great deal of value. Etching and lithography are art, just as pastels, watercolors, etc are. Now when I say limited edition, I'm talking less than 100...and not artist proofs (EA) prints.

 

On the other hand, limited editions of 250 and up as well as any prints signed in the plate rather than by hand have little value, other than decorative.

[iancal]

My sister is a long time fine arts teacher and an artist. She does not have particular knowledge of appraisals but has a thorough knowledge of art and techniques.

 

She attends the auctions for pure entertainment value and never comes back without a some story about the far fetched and unbelievable comments that some of the auctioneers make. More often than not she has seen auctioneers misrepresent technique, quality etc. in order to reinforce an appraisal. In her words......just try selling that work back home for even half of what you paid for it. There is a reason why they have established reserve bids.

[chamima]

It's interesting to be reading this this morning. We are from Michigan, which is Park West's "home".

Last night we attended a wedding at a very upscale hotel that had so many Park West paintings/lithos, etc. everywhere on the walls that several of us wondered if they had purchased the hotel. It was actually worse than on a cruise ship.

Most of my friends here are aware of their questionable reputation and I don't think any of us would purchase anything from them currently. I can't figure out why everyone hasn't figured this out.

Many, many (probably 40) years ago I attended a charity auction they put on here when they were just local and bought an Andy Warhol litho which we've enjoyed and might actually be worth something but it wasn't very expensive and I have no desire to have it appraised and be disappointed. (That will be our kids' problem after we're gone.)

Anyone who likes what they see and can find something reasonable (the frame is probably worth $100) should get it if it makes them happy but beyond that.............. :confused:

[ny cruisequeen]

I have read these posts with great interest.

 

We have lots of artwork in our home from many auctions on various ships and auction houses. Recently we had a devastating flood in our home and over 25 pieces had to be restored and were appraised by an independent art appraiser sent by the insurance company. Many pieces were from PArk West.

 

We were happily stunned to see the value had tripled for most of our pieces! They are authentic and worth more than we originally paid for them. Quite an investment...and we love to see each piece every day in our home.

 

If you do not like auctions, just don't go. I do not like Bingo and ignore the Bingo announcements. I do not blast or deride them. I just go to what I like on my vacation and spend what I want where I want. I really do not understand all the animosity here. I think you all should save it for the chair hogs at the pool!

[kitty9]

I have read these posts with great interest.

 

We have lots of artwork in our home from many auctions on various ships and auction houses. Recently we had a devastating flood in our home and over 25 pieces had to be restored and were appraised by an independent art appraiser sent by the insurance company. Many pieces were from PArk West.

 

We were happily stunned to see the value had tripled for most of our pieces! They are authentic and worth more than we originally paid for them. Quite an investment...and we love to see each piece every day in our home.

 

If you do not like auctions, just don't go. I do not like Bingo and ignore the Bingo announcements. I do not blast or deride them. I just go to what I like on my vacation and spend what I want where I want. I really do not understand all the animosity here. I think you all should save it for the chair hogs at the pool!

 

The animosity is because Park West has a sullied reputation, as evidenced by the lawsuits they've lost. I also look in amazement at this so-called art because you see the exact same items on every single ship, so how can this stuff be "exclusive"?

 

People don't blast or deride bingo because that game of chance is exactly as stated, a game of chance. You know exactly what you're getting when playing bingo. But with these "art" auctions, you really have no idea of what you're getting. You might be lucky and get something nice, but in a lot of areas, I think many are being fleeced.

 

But, IMHO, art is what YOU like and not what others like. There is art out there that I can't understand or like, such as the one that was recently auctioned for millions that was nothing more than a blue canvas with a big white strip, or for that matter, the Jackson Pollack works that look like 8 year olds in a paint fight. But people somewhere appreciate all art in all it's forms, and it's not for me to say whether I like it or not because I'm not paying for it.