Frequent Flyer Mile/Hotel Points

[crazyme5kids]

I'm just curious, how other people decide when, and, or how they will use points for airfare or hotel stays.

 

We tend to let price determine if we will use miles or points. For example, if a hotel is under $200 to $300 per night we usually won't use points. Same with airfare, if it's under a certain amount, we won't use mileage points.

 

The exception to this rule is if we are using points or mileage to help a family member or friend travel.

 

Again, just curious, there is no right or wrong, just personal preferences.

[Gunner22aa]

I fly a lot for business and pleasure. We always use the points to either upgrade to business class or book it outright. When I take an 18 hr flight to AU I like a bed.

[slidergirl]

I use my FF points for upgrades to Business or outright buying tickets to Europe/Middle East. It doesn't make sense to me to use points for a domestic ticket.

 

I use my FG points for long vacations to very nice hotels - they DO normally cost more than $250/night. My last vacation in May was a FF/FG "special": I paid for my airfare (EC over, BE back) with FF points, paid for 6 of my 7 nights with points (Rome Cavalieri, Westin Excelsior Florence, Hilton FCO). I did a week once in Puerto Rico on FF/FG also - my total bill was just the airfare taxes and $100 for a car rental and snorkel trip (lucky we were put on the Royal Beach Club floor where there was a lounge that had enough food all day long that we rarely went out for food)...

[Gardyloo]

I use a personal benchmark of 2c per mile in redeemed value. In other words, if it takes 25,000 miles for a ticket that costs less than $500, I'll keep the miles and just earn more on the flight.

 

Redeeming 100,000 miles for a business class round trip to Europe (which from the west coast typically runs in the $3000 - $4000 range if bought) is my current preference. That and Cathay Pacific in first class from Vancouver to JFK for 32,500 AA miles each way. OMG.

[Twickenham]

I'm just curious, how other people decide when, and, or how they will use points for airfare or hotel stays.

 

We tend to let price determine if we will use miles or points. For example, if a hotel is under $200 to $300 per night we usually won't use points. Same with airfare, if it's under a certain amount, we won't use mileage points.

 

The exception to this rule is if we are using points or mileage to help a family member or friend travel.

 

Again, just curious, there is no right or wrong, just personal preferences.

 

I try to play my points so that I get the most value for me, which isn't always strictly a question of money.

 

For hotel points, we tend to earn during small, weekend trips locally (and CC spend), and burn during larger trips overseas. For instance, last year we decided we didn't want to pay for any hotel rooms, so I used my IHG/Marriott points for our hotel nights (except for 1st night in Rome, which I got free thru their BRG program). While some of the redemptions weren't the best pure value that I could get for the points, it was still worth it to me to not have any hotel expenses.

 

Just recently gotten back into FF miles - we do a lot of road trip travel - but going Premium Economy to Rome has convinced us going trans-ocean in economy is a no-go:D, so now working on getting enough miles to fly business to Asia next year. I estimate the sign-up bonuses from 4-5 credit cards each should do it...:cool:

[crazyme5kids]

I use a personal benchmark of 2c per mile in redeemed value. In other words, if it takes 25,000 miles for a ticket that costs less than $500, I'll keep the miles and just earn more on the flight.

 

Redeeming 100,000 miles for a business class round trip to Europe (which from the west coast typically runs in the $3000 - $4000 range if bought) is my current preference. That and Cathay Pacific in first class from Vancouver to JFK for 32,500 AA miles each way. OMG.

 

I like the 2 cent rule of thumb idea, and usually have a $600.00 or less rule of thumb, or I should say, I have that rule. My husband is a "we have them, use them" kind of a guy :eek:.

[Loreto]

I stockpile my miles to use on international business elite. I buy my husband's ticket with miles and pay for mine...so I get more miles.

[FlyerTalker]

Think of your various "miles" as a form of alternative currency.

 

Inherently, some are worth more or less than others -- WN points won't get you to Australia, so if you want to head down under, they have less value to you in the big picture. Others, such as Amex MR or Chase, are convertible into other "currencies", so they may have more than face value due to greater utility.

 

There's an analogy in doing forex purchases before/during/after an overseas trip. You have a baseline "rate of exchange" and then you get the individual "money changer". You can either say "That's a good deal" or "He's ripping me off", making the deal or saying "No thanks". Same here. If you think you are getting good value, and having a popular reference in mind, then go ahead. After all, it's your "money".

 

One other consideration - opportunity cost. If you burn your miles to fly to Florida, they won't be available for you to use later to Europe. But that starts getting into deeper cost/benefit analysis, so I'll leave it to you as to how fast you want to run with this topic. Plus, you then introduce the "bird in hand" consideration for obtaining awards and it's resultant value effect.

 

And for the OP's original question, for baseline value, I use a minimum of $0.025 per mile for my DL points. I want at least $0.03 per Starwood point - partially because of their bonus structure when transferring and partially because of the greater utility of the points. About $0.0275 for Amex MR - good utility, fewer bonuses.

 

One other factor to remember. Hotels and car rentals can often be obtained for significant discounts through alternative channels, both opaque and transparent. So do your "exchange rate" calculations in comparison to real world pricing rather than rack rate.

[frugaltravel]

We tend to let price determine if we will use miles or points. For example, if a hotel is under $200 to $300 per night we usually won't use points. Same with airfare, if it's under a certain amount, we won't use mileage points.

 

If I found an IHG Points Break hotel for 5K points vs paying $200-$300 for the same hotel, you can bet I would for sure use points for that stay. As was said by others, the key is the value, not the outright cost.

 

I use a personal benchmark of 2c per mile in redeemed value. In other words, if it takes 25,000 miles for a ticket that costs less than $500, I'll keep the miles and just earn more on the flight.

 

Redeeming 100,000 miles for a business class round trip to Europe (which from the west coast typically runs in the $3000 - $4000 range if bought) is my current preference. That and Cathay Pacific in first class from Vancouver to JFK for 32,500 AA miles each way. OMG.

 

I generally agree with your valuation but only if one uses a "realistic" cost of purchasing the flight with cash. Just because an airline asks $10K for some international first class ticket and I am using 100K miles for the trip, it doesn't mean I am really getting 10 cpm value, since I would never pay $10K for that trip.

 

One other factor to remember. Hotels and car rentals can often be obtained for significant discounts through alternative channels, both opaque and transparent. So do your "exchange rate" calculations in comparison to real world pricing rather than rack rate.

 

Exactly - and that pertains to airline tickets as well, like I mentioned above. "What would I be willing to pay for that international premium class ticket to Asia" (regardless of what the airline's asking price is) vs "Wow, I got 25 cpm value out of those miles." It sure feels good to say the latter, but in reality it is not true. I recently booked a business class ticket to Europe using miles (multiple cities). The "retail" price that the airline would have asked was over $11K. I used 100K miles. I know I would never have paid $11K for that ticket, but I still know I got very good value from my miles even though it really wasn't 11 cpm.

Edited November 6, 2013 by frugaltravel

[crazyme5kids]

Thanks for your replies, I find them very interesting. I will say, the last three years we've used miles for a number of domestic flights though, probably eight or nine times. Not the smartest use of mile points, but it did save us a boatload of money when all was said and done.

 

Luckily we have, or I should say my husband still has a lot of points left. He will be hitting a mileage milestone with AA very soon, so he'll also get a few nice perks as a result of that.

 

I don't know why I hate using hotel points so much for rooms under $300.00. My husband thinks I'm nuts not wanting to use them.

 

 

Edited to add: only two of those domestic flights were for my husband and I.

Edited November 6, 2013 by crazyme5kids

[Twickenham]

Thanks for your replies, I find them very interesting. I will say, the last three years we've used miles for a number of domestic flights though, probably eight or nine times. Not the smartest use of mile points, but it did save us a boatload of money when all was said and done.

 

Luckily we have, or I should say my husband still has a lot of points left. He will be hitting a mileage milestone with AA very soon, so he'll also get a few nice perks as a result of that.

 

I don't know why I hate using hotel points so much for rooms under $300.00. My husband thinks I'm nuts not wanting to use them.

 

 

Edited to add: only two of those domestic flights were for my husband and I.

 

You know, lots of people spend lots of time analyzing comparative values of points, etc., but at the end of the day, the best use of them is for something that you want.

 

For instance, last year, our last 2 nights in Rome before our cruise were spent at a Holiday Inn Express that cost me 25,000 points/night. Now, by anybody's standards, that was a pretty mediocre use of points, as that hotel could probably be had for 100 euros/night. But, as I already have said, we wanted to do all free nights, and this choice got me exactly what I wanted: a clean room with a free breakfast that my mom could actually eat (she's allergic to wheat, so a croissant and jam just doesn't cut it), a comfortable 10-minute walk to a train station where we caught a direct train to Civitavecchia for our cruise. It may not have been good value for my points, but it was good value to me, and ultimately that's what's important.

 

You have to remember, for hotel points especially, they can loose their value thru devaluations/category adjustments, so hanging on to them for too long isn't that good an idea.

Re: domestic flights on points: certainly from where I live, if you're talking mile value-wise, this can be a very good use of miles, as we have rather expensive domestic flights (I consider anything under $400 to be borderline miraculous), and Air Canada has short-haul redemptions for 15,000 miles.

[Gardyloo]

FlyerTalker's point about miles being an "alternative currency" is spot on. Say you have $100 in your wallet. What's it going to be, surf and turf at Morton's, or 20 Happy Meals? 100K miles - a biz class return trip to South America or four sardine-class round trips to El Paso?

 

Because of conditions at home, this year I haven't been able to travel a fraction of the time I have in previous years. But in June I suddenly had a few days free to spend visiting some ailing friends in Scotland. A short-term round trip ticket for money was almost out of the question - I had less than a week to plan the trip, and as it was June, economy FF seats were not to be had.

 

However, as is often the case, the reverse is true for business class seats - in the summer they often come open on very short notice, once the Hogwarts profs in YM have determined they're not going to sell out to walk-up billionaires.

 

So 100K miles and four days later I'm on Lufthansa to Edinburgh in business class (came back, also up front, on United via Newark.)

 

The "opportunity cost" calculus went the other way. Had I not had the miles I wouldn't have made the trip, short of shelling out almost $2K for a horrible coach seat on BA, or $5K to sit up front. In my case, the miles gave me the freedom to travel at the last minute, versus not traveling at all.

[brazilgirl]

Generally we use our FF points for international Business Class tickets...in this last year we have used our points for my husband to fly to Denmark ( for a family cruise) , a trip to New Orleans next month and 5 business class tickets to Chile for our family for a lovely Easter holiday .

 

We don't do the hotel programs ..as we are not business travelers , we enjoy checking out unique hotels which reflect the local culture if possible.I also am always on the lookout for special deals. I am very picky about hotles and read a lot before booking. We have stayed at some really amazing places. When we do book more traditional type hotels ( Hyatts , Hiltons , Ritz Carltons etc) , we book through our CC concierge , which allows us some perks like breakfast , upgrades , late check-out etc.

 

Planning and using FF miles is a big part of the fun. It is nice to get good value for your money. There are times when I use my miles " unwisely" ...I always try to get the most bang for my buck , but at times I use them because the spirit moves me , lol.

[GeezerCouple]

We try to maximize the $$ VALUE of the points used.

 

They tend to be worth more for, say, upgrades to a higher class of service than to purchase a coach ticket.

 

Does anyone remember a few weeks/months ago, in (NYT? WSJ?) there was a general chart of the value of points used (obviously on average, which wouldn't be exact for all types of points or all uses), starting with the least valuable to most: things like overseas first class, approx. 4x or 5x the value of the least valuable use.

Upgrades were among the most valuable, IIRC.

 

That doesn't mean someone "should" save points for one big, fancy trip. Several free coach trips might fit better for someone's travel needs.

 

But we've got a lot of points/miles saved up, so we may use some of them for overseas business or first class.

(On the other hand, we need to compare the value of a program where a business class companion flies free overseas.)

We once before flew first class overseas using only points. (Problem was an equipment change, so it was a combined "business/first" class of service, and we were pretty bitter about that! Nope, no partial refund of points.)

 

While we've been "saving" up the points, we've mostly used them at the airport for last minute upgrades when possible. Those don't use many points, but it's pretty hard to grab those.

 

But at this point in our lives, we won't use points for a coach domestic ticket when we could just pay several hundred dollars instead.

 

We DO occasionally use them for "last minute urgent" domestic coach, when the only fare category left is the expensive "full coach fare".

 

We've never - yet - used miles/points for hotel stays.

 

Mostly, we consider what the dollar value would be if paying cash, and what it would be if using points, compared with other flight options.

 

GeezerCouple

[ducklite]

We use hotel points unless we can get a room for under $100. We get so many between business travel and affinity credit cards that we have a constant supply.

 

 

Autocorrect responsible for most typos...

[waterbug123]

Airline miles: We never use them for ourselves domestically. We use them for the kids' flights when going on vacation. We continue to pay for our own tickets to EARN miles and status. We may start looking at buying upgradeable fares when flying internationally and then using miles to UG, but we're cheapskates when it comes to air and I doubt we'll end up doing so.

 

Hotel points: We save them up for international trips. The international airfare is enough of a hit, so whether the hotel points are a good value or not, we use them to simply reduce the out of pocket cash cost of the trip when possible.

[Gloria Mundi]

DH and I have been using both hotel and airline points for years. My first redemption was getting my then 12-year old son to Bermuda with me on Continental for a conference in 1997. During the years DH and I were dating, it was a nice way to get in some wonderful trips; he made a lot less than I did and we each contributed some money and I contributed a lot of miles/points. I still remember taking advantage of an e-mail from Continental in 2000 that offered OnePass travel for 17,500 miles R/T on their new route from EWR (our home airport) to Rio. We took it and had a great 4-day weekend in Rio. They never offered it again.

 

Fast-forward to now: DH is 75, over 6 feet tall and doesn't fit well in Coach airline seats. He's expressed a wish to fly up front on transatlantics, so that's where the airline miles go. Hotel points are burned in Europe. Hilton has been wonderful up to now, but they've made their points virtually worthless in Europe (offering only "premium" rooms in their most desirable hotels at 200,000 points per night). The Hilton Amex is going into the sock drawer. In the meantime, I burned Hilton points to get onto the Executive level in Minneapolis when I was there for a conference early this week.

 

So, our strategy is to take advantage of all the credit card deals (and pay in full every month), purchase the lower-cost stays/airfares and save the miles and points for the big-ticket stays. We're also careful not to stockpile too many points because many programs get "enhanced" and suddenly that great trip you planned is out of reach.

[calliopecruiser]

I'm just curious, how other people decide when, and, or how they will use points for airfare or hotel stays.

 

We tend to let price determine if we will use miles or points. For example, if a hotel is under $200 to $300 per night we usually won't use points. Same with airfare, if it's under a certain amount, we won't use mileage points.

 

The exception to this rule is if we are using points or mileage to help a family member or friend travel.

 

Again, just curious, there is no right or wrong, just personal preferences.

 

Absolutely! I try to make the most of my FF points by only using them for very pricey trips (either pricey because I'm traveling in Executive/First or because I'm traveling an unusual route with little competition). My cut off is usually a $500 flight, but that can vary with how many points it would cost too. My goal is at least over 6 cents a point, and ideally 8 or 9 cents a point.

[frugaltravel]

My goal is at least over 6 cents a point, and ideally 8 or 9 cents a point.

 

The problem with that is you are using an inflated "feel good" or "sticker" price for that calculation - a price that you would otherwise never pay. I have booked business class tickets to Europe that would have cost over $10K if I had paid cash. I used 100K miles. Did I really get 10 cents a mile for those miles? No, not really, because I know I would never have paid that much for the ticket. Sure it feels great to say I got 10 cpm, but in reality I would never have paid even half of that. I know some people disagree with me on the valuation (especially those who like the 'feel good' feeling and perhaps even boasting about how much their miles are worth). So be it for them.

Edited November 9, 2013 by frugaltravel

[kenish]

The problem with that is you are using an inflated "feel good" or "sticker" price for that calculation - a price that you would otherwise never pay.

 

If someone is truly indifferent to whether they sit front or in econ, then it's pure "feel good" as you say. Miles shouldn't be wasted. Then again, flying First or Biz has tangible benefits such as expedited check-in, security, and baggage claim....no bag fees, better meals (at no extra cost), and priority if something goes amok due to a delay or cancellation. On top of that, there are the "feel good" items that can include more legroom, the ability to sleep, more attentive service, better IFE, quieter cabin, etc.

 

Very roughly, a first or biz class award requires 2-3x the miles of econ for the same flight. So the choice is whether to use the miles to fly First or Biz for the "feel good" and savings in time and money, or use it for 1-2 other trips in Econ instead.

 

Another decision point is what trip to use the miles on. Let's say you live in DEN and have a trip to SF and trip to Wichita coming up. Both require the same mileage spend....paid fare to Wichita is far higher than SF, so it's pretty obvious where to use the award miles. (Pointing this out for people on the board who are learning the ropes of frequent flyer awards).

Edited November 9, 2013 by kenish

[ducklite]

If someone is truly indifferent to whether they sit front or in econ, then it's pure "feel good" as you say. Miles shouldn't be wasted. Then again, flying First or Biz has tangible benefits such as expedited check-in, security, and baggage claim....no bag fees, better meals (at no extra cost), and priority if something goes amok due to a delay or cancellation. On top of that, there are the "feel good" items that can include more legroom, the ability to sleep, more attentive service, better IFE, quieter cabin, etc.

 

Very roughly, a first or biz class award requires 2-3x the miles of econ for the same flight. So the choice is whether to use the miles to fly First or Biz for the "feel good" and savings in time and money, or use it for 1-2 other trips in Econ instead.

 

Another decision point is what trip to use the miles on. Let's say you live in DEN and have a trip to SF and trip to Wichita coming up. Both require the same mileage spend....paid fare to Wichita is far higher than SF, so it's pretty obvious where to use the award miles. (Pointing this out for people on the board who are learning the ropes of frequent flyer awards).

 

Not necessarily. I just booked a r/t ticket MCO to LAX for 45k miles, first on all legs. The best I could do in economy was 35K miles, and the ticket would have run me $700 paying cash. It was a no brainer to book it as a first class r/t using miles. But then again I have over half a million of them In my account, even after that ticket.

 

 

Autocorrect responsible for most typos...

[calliopecruiser]

The problem with that is you are using an inflated "feel good" or "sticker" price for that calculation - a price that you would otherwise never pay.

 

When you say you wouldn't have paid $10,000 for that ticket, do you mean you wouldn't have bought it, or that you would have gotten a lower price? I'm not sure I understand what you're really saying. If you would have paid less, then you didn't really get a $10,000 ticket, and if you're saying you wouldn't have bought it in the first place, then why would you have used points? I know I wouldn't be using points for it in the first place if it's a ticket I didn't want to buy. What exactly are you talking about? Yeah, when I look up the price for a flight - the sticker price - that is what I would pay. When I fly somewhere, I look for the flights (routing and airlines) and seats I want, not just the cheapest way to get from A to B. Price is not the primary way I choose my air transportation.

 

Or maybe I misunderstood you

 

Regardless of whether it's comparable between others on the flight, it's an individual standard that serves as a comparison between how I use it. In other words, it might not be actually worth 8 cents, for instance (it isn't), but it is worth more when I use it that way than if I used it for a cheaper ticket.

[frugaltravel]

If someone is truly indifferent to whether they sit front or in econ, then it's pure "feel good" as you say. Miles shouldn't be wasted. Then again, flying First or Biz has tangible benefits such as expedited check-in, security, and baggage claim....no bag fees, better meals (at no extra cost), and priority if something goes amok due to a delay or cancellation. On top of that, there are the "feel good" items that can include more legroom, the ability to sleep, more attentive service, better IFE, quieter cabin, etc.

 

Very roughly, a first or biz class award requires 2-3x the miles of econ for the same flight. So the choice is whether to use the miles to fly First or Biz for the "feel good" and savings in time and money, or use it for 1-2 other trips in Econ instead.

 

I agree with your points, but that does not mean one should value their miles based on the "sticker price" of the international F or J ticket that they would never have paid sticker price for. That was my "feel good" point.

 

I just booked a r/t ticket MCO to LAX for 45k miles, first on all legs. The best I could do in economy was 35K miles, and the ticket would have run me $700 paying cash. It was a no brainer to book it as a first class r/t using miles.

 

True if you (generic) acquired the miles from flying. But if you acquired the miles from credit card spend, most likely you would have been better off using a flat 2% cashback card and buying the ticket for cash (and thus also earning miles for the flight). 45K miles generally (key word) requires $45K of credit card spend x 2% = $900 cashback. At least two credit cards offer true 2% cash back. If the miles were earned by flying, then you are totally correct.

 

When you say you wouldn't have paid $10,000 for that ticket, do you mean you wouldn't have bought it, or that you would have gotten a lower price? I'm not sure I understand what you're really saying. If you would have paid less, then you didn't really get a $10,000 ticket, and if you're saying you wouldn't have bought it in the first place, then why would you have used points? I know I wouldn't be using points for it in the first place if it's a ticket I didn't want to buy. What exactly are you talking about? Yeah, when I look up the price for a flight - the sticker price - that is what I would pay. When I fly somewhere, I look for the flights (routing and airlines) and seats I want, not just the cheapest way to get from A to B. Price is not the primary way I choose my air transportation.

 

I would not have flown to two cities in Europe in business class from the small city I originated in if it would have cost me $10K cash. Yes, I would have taken the trip. But maybe a combination of things like drive a couple of hours to a different airport to start, maybe just visiting two cities not three, maybe taking some of the European legs in coach, not business or even use a European LCC (perish the thought!). There are lots of ways to reduce the cost when paying cash. Since I pay for all my travels, I know I could never afford a $10K ticket. Period. So I don't use the $10K sticker price to inflate the value of my miles.

 

Regardless of whether it's comparable between others on the flight, it's an individual standard that serves as a comparison between how I use it. In other words, it might not be actually worth 8 cents, for instance (it isn't), but it is worth more when I use it that way than if I used it for a cheaper ticket.

 

I would love to see your itineraries for how you get 8 or 9 cents/point and have you say with a straight face that you would have paid that much for the flight if you never had a single mile to your name. That is usually extremely hard to do. But it sounds like you confirmed what I was saying all along when you said "it isn't" (i.e. "actually worth 8 cents, for instance").

Edited November 9, 2013 by frugaltravel

[ducklite]

I agree with your points, but that does not mean one should value their miles based on the "sticker price" of the international F or J ticket that they would never have paid sticker price for. That was my "feel good" point.

 

 

 

True if you (generic) acquired the miles from flying. But if you acquired the miles from credit card spend, most likely you would have been better off using a flat 2% cashback card and buying the ticket for cash (and thus also earning miles for the flight). 45K miles generally (key word) requires $45K of credit card spend x 2% = $900 cashback. At least two credit cards offer true 2% cash back. If the miles were earned by flying, then you are totally correct.

 

The majority came from flying. The only thing I use the airline affinity card for is buying plane tickets for the extra miles. Some also came from hotel stays. The joys if traveling 100 nights a year. Getting 100% mileage bonus is pretty easy to handle though. :)

 

 

Autocorrect responsible for most typos...

[calliopecruiser]

Since I pay for all my travels, I know I could never afford a $10K ticket. Period. So I don't use the $10K sticker price to inflate the value of my miles.

 

Ah, so you think I'm lying and artificially inflating the price. Well, why didn't you just have the balls to say you thought I was a liar in the first place? Quite obviously you don't know me, so you've got no evidence to support that idea, but feel free to rant on the internet about my lies nonetheless, LOL.