Princess - New Ships??

[Nymue]

With the new Regal coming out soon, what is next for Princess? I recall reading something a few years ago that after the Regal they would be going in the other direction with a couple of smaller ships, however I never heard anything further on that.

[Colo Cruiser]

I don't think anyone knows what will come after after the Regal.

[paul929207]

Nothing has been announced

[fishywood]

I would think what is next for Princess is to figure out where in the world they can best sell their current capacity, having increased by 8,000 berths in a year's time. With a sixth ship heading there in summer 2015 it appears the Pacific Rim is the answer.

[Lanwood]

I would think what is next for Princess is to figure out where in the world they can best sell their current capacity, having increased by 8,000 berths in a year's time.

 

I think they may have started this excersice by the looks of things.

 

I read a letter/memo from Princess that they are repositioning the Golden Princess to be based in Australia in 2015/2016. Giving us 5 ships over here (Diamond(flag) Golden, Sun, Dawn, Sea). With 1or2 or those ships to be here year round, the others to be hear during cruising season. The reason was the ever increasing growth in the Australian market for cruising. So I would expect another ship would take the Goldens place doing South America?

 

And with Diamond (when not down under) working at growing a Japanese market, and the Saphire working at growing a Chinese market (and S.E Asia).

 

On my last two Princess cruises, our captains circle host gave speaches about continueing to add and find new destinations for their itenerary's for repeat cruisers to experience something different when cruising in the same part of the world.

 

So, I think a good question for this thread may also be are their any ships that look like they might be comming close to retirement as newer (or possible new) ships get added and growth/new markets get delivered?

 

With new ships, my experience/observations seems to be regualar and older cruises oftern prefer the smaller ships, while new-to-cruising and younger cruises seem to prefer to bigger ships. We know where Princess (and most everyone else) has gone with the Regal/Royal. Not sure where they will go next....?

Edited April 29, 2014 by Lanwood

[lovevacadays]

I would imagine that Princess may wait a few years before ordering a new class of ship. Look how long it was before they ordered the Royal and Regal.

 

 

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[Host Jazzbeau]

The new Panama Canal (any day now, just like Alfa Romeo coming back to the US ...) has led Princess to move Island Princess to Europe as another part of this plan.

 

Sadly, economics make it unlikely that any major cruise line will ever build a new small ship. Larger ships have economies of scale that can't be ignored at this price point.

[Nymue]

I remember when the statement first came out about the Royal that after a few builds in that size they were looking at a new smaller class capable of the smaller passages and ports. The bigger ships can't do the Panama Canal and smaller, local ports like Baltimore are gaining popularity.

[Pam in CA]

Once the new Panama Canal is opened, the large ships will be able to do this itinerary. Opening is supposed to be April 2015, a year from now.

[Colo Cruiser]

Can't wait to sail the Island in the Med. :)

[Kamloops50]

Once the new Panama Canal is opened, the large ships will be able to do this itinerary. Opening is supposed to be April 2015, a year from now.

 

The last I heard it was delayed to fall 2015 or spring 2016. Ships like the Royal or similar are still to big for the new canal.

 

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[The Big Booper]

The new Panama Canal (any day now, just like Alfa Romeo coming back to the US ...) has led Princess to move Island Princess to Europe as another part of this plan.

 

Sadly, economics make it unlikely that any major cruise line will ever build a new small ship. Larger ships have economies of scale that can't be ignored at this price point.

 

I was at the NY Auto Show last Saturday and right in the middle of the main floor, Alfa Romeo had a display with a couple of models on sale now.

 

Also, I understand that Venice is shutting off access to larger ships so the 90,000 GRT ships from all the lines will be used at that port.

[fishywood]

All the speculation about post-panamax ships assuming a regular schedule of canal transits is just as much a wild guess as what the as-yet-unplanned next generation of Princess ships will be like. I don't think any cruise line will be scheduling even a one-off repositioning cruise through the new locks until after they see them actually open. (As of now the dedication ceremony is penciled in for December but with no expectations of operation). At this point no one knows when exactly that will be--or even more importantly, what the tolls for passenger ships will be. I think it is going to be a pretty hard sell to have a full season of 10 to 15 night sailings with Government Fees and Taxes in the neighborhood of $800-1000 per person. I think this is a reasonable guestimate based on reports that the average toll of a 1600 ft container ship in the new locks will be quadruple that of the just-under-1000 ft ships passing through the current locks.

Edited April 29, 2014 by fishywood

[IECalCruiser]

The last I heard it was delayed to fall 2015 or spring 2016. Ships like the Royal or similar are still to big for the new canal.

 

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The new locks will be 180 feet wide and the Royal Princess beam is 126 feet. The Royal and Regal should have no problem getting through the new locks.

 

 

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[Host Jazzbeau]

All the speculation about post-panamax ships assuming a regular schedule of canal transits is just as much a wild guess as what the as-yet-unplanned next generation of Princess ships will be like. I don't think any cruise line will be scheduling even a one-off repositioning cruise through the new locks until after they see them actually open.

 

I don't disagree, but Princess has already moved Island to Europe in preparation for this change. [Which, BTW, I think is great because I've already sailed Coral in both Alaska and Panama Canal and now I can keep sailing my favorite Princess class on new itineraries!]

Edited April 29, 2014 by Host Jazzbeau

[IECalCruiser]

The new Panama Canal (any day now, just like Alfa Romeo coming back to the US ...) has led Princess to move Island Princess to Europe as another part of this plan.

 

 

 

Sadly, economics make it unlikely that any major cruise line will ever build a new small ship. Larger ships have economies of scale that can't be ignored at this price point.

The Island is moving to Europe because she and the Coral are the largest Princess ships that can sail into Venice under the new size restrictions (which assumes the rules don't change). All of the Grand class variants are banned until a new cruise ship channel is dug.

 

 

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[IECalCruiser]

The Island is moving to Europe because she and the Coral are the largest Princess ships that can sail into Venice under the new size restrictions (which assumes the rules don't change). All of the Grand class variants are banned until a new cruise ship channel is dug.

 

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Looks like CLIA has voluntarily agreed to follow the restrictions on cruises ships larger than 96,000 tonnes.

 

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/giant-cruise-ships-that-block-the-venice-views-and-threaten-foundations-are-to-be-banned-from-passing-through-citys-heart-9270109.html

[RickEk]

I don't disagree, but Princess has already moved Island to Europe in preparation for this change. [Which, BTW, I think is great because I've already sailed Coral in both Alaska and Panama Canal and now I can keep sailing my favorite Princess class on new itineraries!]

 

Island Princess is going to Europe in 2015...

[dmwnc1959]

The new locks will be 180 feet wide and the Royal Princess beam is 126 feet. The Royal and Regal should have no problem getting through the new locks.

 

Getting through the new locks is one thing, ducking under the navigational clearance of the Bridge of the Americas is another. ;) Anyone know what the air draft of the Royal-class ships is?

 

:D

Edited April 29, 2014 by dmwnc1959

[Princess Cruiser27]

Getting through the new locks is one thing, ducking under the navigational clearance of the Bridge of the Americas is another. ;) Anyone know what the air draft of the Royal-class ships is?

 

:D

 

Draft would be 28 Feet.

[skynight]

The Royal Princess is reported as:

1083 ft. long

155 ft. wide

28 ft. draft

217 ft. high

 

The new Panama canal Locks are:

1400 ft. long

180 ft. wide

60 ft. deep

The Bridge of the Americas is 384ft above mean sea level.

 

It looks as if the Royal as well as all other current Princess ships can fit through the new canal if the line wishes to re-position them, or use current Grand Class ships for the popular Panama Canal routes. The question, will it be cost effective for large ships to transit? What would the per passenger charge be? I don't believe anyone knows for sure right now.

[dmwnc1959]

The air draft of a ship is the distance from the waterline to the highest point on the ship, and can be used to determine how much clearance a ship has when passing under a bridge.

 

So for instance, even though the Oasis-class ships could fit through the new locks, they can't transit because they won't fit under the Bridge of the Americas which has a navigational clearance (the vertical clearance under the lowest span of the bridge in the navigation channel, usually at high tide) of 201 feet when the Oasis-class air draft is 236 feet.

 

That is what prompted my question about the air draft of the Royal-class.

 

Here's a post I did back in 2010 on the Celebrity Cruises forum when we were talking about cruise ships going in and out of Baltimore:

 

The Francis Scott Key Bridge has a navigational clearance under the main span of 185 feet. The air draft being the distance from the waterline to the highest part of the ship above water. Air Draft comparisons:

 

QE2 171'

Celebrity Mercury - 177'

Voyager of the Seas - 208'

Oasis of the Seas - 236'

Celebrity Solstice - 200'

Grand Princess - 188'

Queen Mary 2 - 203'

The MILLENNIUM-class would be a very tight fit but doable. Remembering that the Francis Scott Key Bridge has a navigational clearance of 185', here are some more air draft comparisons courtesy of some friends in the UK and Norway:

 

Millennium-class 180'

Carnival Dream 203'

Carnival Destiny 195'

Grand/Caribbean Princess-class 188-213'

 

Thread showing that a Grand-Class did visit Baltimore:

http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=653296

 

Original post of air drafts:

http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showpost.php?p=26920987&postcount=58

 

From this thread:

http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=1310016

Edited April 29, 2014 by dmwnc1959

[IECalCruiser]

Getting through the new locks is one thing, ducking under the navigational clearance of the Bridge of the Americas is another. ;) Anyone know what the air draft of the Royal-class ships is?

 

:D

The bridges would be no issue for partial transits from FLL.

 

 

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[dmwnc1959]

The bridges would be no issue for partial transits from FLL.

 

I'm wondering if Partial Transits of the new locks (Gatun Lake only) would be attractive for much larger passenger ships that couldn't normally fit through the current locks since the fees collected would be based off the ships maximum passenger capacity? The bigger the ship and the more passengers, the higher the toll. And for ships that are so big they tower over the locks, the scale of locks vs ship would be like David and Goliath. The transit of the Gatun Lake new locks would be pretty unimpressive on these new giants of the seas.

[Kamloops50]

I'm wondering if Partial Transits of the new locks (Gatun Lake only) would be attractive for much larger passenger ships that couldn't normally fit through the current locks since the fees collected would be based off the ships maximum passenger capacity? The bigger the ship and the more passengers, the higher the toll. And for ships that are so big they tower over the locks, the scale of locks vs ship would be like David and Goliath. The transit of the Gatun Lake new locks would be pretty unimpressive on these new giants of the seas.

 

Fees are based on the weight of the ship in tons . 1 ton is equivalent to 1000 cubic feet The weight of the is equivalent to volume of the ship minus the enginerring spaces , storage area's and tanks. Most ships don't have to include the balconies because they are outside the main structure.