With high prices and bad reviews why sail celebrity?

[cle-guy]

The businesses that endure are the ones that find their niche and do it well.

 

AND attract enough customers to purchase their services within that niche thus making enough profit to keep their services available over time.

 

I am a firm believer in the concept of niche marketing, to the extent it delivers profits and is enough to keep a business operational.

 

However sometimes a niche falls out of favor to its customers and a new one needs to be sought out, or a business with much similar competition may need to assimilate somewhat into line with its competition where there is not a lot of true competition or where the business's typical customers become more focused first on price and the value of added perks and promotions.than the niche the business once may have occupied.

 

Once customers begin to focus on pricing first, holding a niche becomes very difficult to maintain, unless the core of the "niche" was value pricing. A business also has to follow market forces.

 

Consider way back the carmaker Tucker, they had a true niche idea. however the big competition around them swallowed them up despite their niche. Radio Shack once had a niche, then come Circuit city and Best buy. Now radio shack struggles and Circuit city's out of business due to the big guy, Best Buy. PanAM Airlines had a niche, but nowhere to be found these days but fond memories.

Edited May 22, 2014 by cle-guy

[Ma Bell]

Marketing to a customer who is looking for a certain kind of experience doesn't mean that you never change the product or stay current. You just have to evolve, but keep the focus on making sure you don't get too far away from what made you attractive in the first place. Most people enjoy remodeling and updating their home but they still want it to feel like it's theirs.

 

It's a delicate balance and for the most part Celebrity has managed to do that. I do, however, have some concerns that they may be making some decisions that are not going to be beneficial to them in the long run. There's no one who has enjoyed the Celebrity experience more than I have. I'm just hoping they don't get too far off track.

Edited May 22, 2014 by Ma Bell

[Orator]

Marketing to a customer who is looking for a certain kind of experience doesn't mean that you never change the product or stay current. You just have to evolve, but keep the focus on making sure you don't get too far away from what made you attractive in the first place. Most people enjoy remodeling and updating their home but they still want it to feel like it's theirs.

 

It's a delicate balance and for the most part Celebrity has managed to do that. I do, however, have some concerns that they may be making some decisions that are not going to be beneficial to them in the long run.

 

I believe that they are numbers driven and will look carefully at the data. I am confident that they will modify or discontinue programs that are not meeting their targets. Appears to me that they felt some pressure to do some things quickly and perhaps rushed programs out without fully considering impact. Those who feel that any particular decision is undesirable should communicate their views directly to Celebrity. I suggested using the contactmichael@celebrity.com to communicate thoughts.

[insidecabin]

The problem is that cost cutting inevitably leads to reductions in the product sooner or later you run out of productivity gains.

 

Far better to look for ways to make the same money give you better product.

 

I think part of the problem is the need to attract new customers which is more price sensitive is getting the way of retaining existing customers which is more product sensitive.

 

If I am happy with the product I will tend to buy it even if the price has moved a bit.

 

If I start to have doubts I will look at the other options and see if they might work, it may even trigger a change in the value proposition like move up to better line or go wow I can cruise for 1/2 the price won't be as good but I can just go more times.

 

As I have said on other threads the real risk for a repeat pax is you don't know what you are buying in the future and the trend is the changes are not good so you will think is there anything better should I wait, rather than booking with confidence that if they do change something it will be for the better.

 

The suite changes are catch up patches, the way to go is ship within a ship and you can't do that without a major refurb.

Edited May 22, 2014 by insidecabin

[cle-guy]

 

The suite changes are catch up patches, the way to go is ship within a ship and you can't do that without a major refurb.

 

For me, a loyal suite traveler, I do not care for a ship within a ship concept. I'm fine with private spaces here and there around the ship, like hotels do with their concierge lounges. When not vegetating in cabin, I want to be out meeting more people, and that means lots of people, not just a few of the suite people in a separate space. Like I visit Michaels for 30 minutes before dinner to say hello, then move on to Sky lounge or Martini bar. But stopping at Michael's for a quick nibble and chat with the bartender and concierge about whats up for tomorrow is nice, but I don't want to spend my whole night there at all.

 

I frankly like how I am not held in a special compartment segregated from the masses. I think the locked hallway on Reflection to Signature suites and Reflection suite is not good, as if I went to invite a friend to visit, I have to meet them at the door at the end of the hallway and let them in, not convenient at all. I don't think X ships have the space to carve private spaces out, unlike the mega ships do anyway.

[Beachdude]

The problem is that cost cutting inevitably leads to reductions in the product sooner or later you run out of productivity gains.

 

Far better to look for ways to make the same money give you better product.

 

I think part of the problem is the need to attract new customers which is more price sensitive is getting the way of retaining existing customers which is more product sensitive.

 

If I am happy with the product I will tend to buy it even if the price has moved a bit.

 

If I start to have doubts I will look at the other options and see if they might work, it may even trigger a change in the value proposition like move up to better line or go wow I can cruise for 1/2 the price won't be as good but I can just go more times.

 

As I have said on other threads the real risk for a repeat pax is you don't know what you are buying in the future and the trend is the changes are not good so you will think is there anything better should I wait, rather than booking with confidence that if they do change something it will be for the better.

 

The suite changes are catch up patches, the way to go is ship within a ship and you can't do that without a major refurb.

 

Good post. Sally and I are new to Celebrity and we came here because the other cruise lines are changing away from the expectations we had for cruising. But it appears the Celebrity is following the other lines, so I imagine we will keep searching.

 

Truth of the matter is we like old style (10 years ago) elegant experience at yesterdays prices. The cruise lines have been struggling to fill ships because of cultural attitude shifts for cruising as a result of events over the last 13 or so years. To hold their place in the market, cruise lines are trying to build around a demograph that will fill the ships.

 

So, we have to make a choice, change our expectation, or find a different source that meets our expectation. Personally I'm finding I really enjoy land vacations more and more.

 

We will see what happens. Right now we are looking forward to a Celebrity cruise to Bermuda in June.

 

Burt

[cle-guy]

The cruise lines have been struggling to fill ships because of cultural attitude shifts for cruising as a result of events over the last 13 or so years.

 

For Celebrity and RCI, this is not the case, not sure how other lines are doing. They are sailing above their maximum listed capacity year to year, last year at 104% of capacity, and have remained profitable. So not really huge issue or struggle at all in filling their ships. This is taken straight from their annual 10K SEC stock filings.

[iancal]

The bottom line is that things change, businesses change. Our preference and tastes change. Some adapt, some don't, some disappear. Just ask the folks at Sears, JC Penney, American Airlines, GM, etc.

 

Anyone who expects a cruise line to remain static is dreaming. As long as there are more cruise ships than customers, prices will remain static, in constant dollars, or decrease. That in and of itself implies change. Cruise lines don't just compete with other cruise lines. They compete will all offerings in the leisure travel industry from guided tours through to all inclusive resorts and everything in between.

 

So we don't whine. Rather, if we are not happy with a particular product or service we simply vote with our feet. We find an acceptable, or a better, alternative. That is what is so great about competition. We do not expect any mass market cruise line, Celebrity included, to develop or market a product around our specific preferences.

 

Just to be clear. We do very much like Celebrity. But if you actually try some of the other mass market cruise offerings I still think that comparatively speaking, the Celebrity product will rank up there with the best of them.

Edited May 22, 2014 by iancal

[SeagoingMom]

I agree that most mass market lines are basically the same, that's why they're "mass market". They all are trying to carve out a specific segment of the market. Celebrity seems to be moving toward attracting the higher end of the market. This might work, it might not. Time will tell. The industry like so many others, is a copy cat business. If something works on one line, it will be adapted to others. If you enjoyed the freestyle dining on NCL you'll probably enjoy the dining options on Quantum. I tend to be brand loyal in most things, but will switch if my choice stops working for me. I enjoy the new perks that Celebrity offers their most loyal passengers and seeing staff and fellow passengers I've known as "friends" for a number of years. To me, the "people" factor is the most important reason I cruise Celebrity. I'm sure you will enjoy your future cruises and look forward to reading about your Quantum experience.

 

Celebrity has always done a good job of keeping current. I've been sailing regularly on Celebrity for over 20 years and have embraced the changes along the way. Up until now they have always fit in with a modern upscale experience.

 

I'm still waiting for a "new" idea that fits the name Modern Luxury. My kids did egg drop and ship building contests in grammar school. Are these modern luxury events fior adults? The golf simulators were there until just a couple of years ago and we're not a popular item. They were expensive and always seemed to be out of order.

 

Celebrity attracted a lot of new cruisers by offering an experience that was just a step up in ambiance from some of the other mass market cruise lines. Now it seems that some of those cruisers want to change Celebrity into exactly what they wanted to get away from. It's a mystery to me.

 

Of course Celebrity should continue to try new things, but they don't need to throw the baby out with the bath water.

I have not sailed with Celebrity in 8 years. We enjoyed our Infinity cruise, but wanted to try other lines as well, and have done so. We periodically think about going back to Celebrity, although we would not prefer the Solstice class ships.

 

I am interested in knowing, from Celebrity loyals, what specifically defines this concept of "Modern Luxury", "higher end of the market," "upscaleness", "step up in ambiance," etc. that I read about on this and other threads. This image gets referred to a lot, but never really defined. I am still wondering, "What is the Celebrity product?"

 

Anyone care to plunge in with specifics? I would particularly value the views of those who have sailed other lines as well, and can make comparisons. However, I am not interested in smear campaigns against other cruise lines.

 

Also, is the "best" of Celebrity (as you define it) reserved for the Solstice class ships, or does it extend to the Millennium and Century classes as well?

 

Any takers?

[Ma Bell]

I believe that they are numbers driven and will look carefully at the data. I am confident that they will modify or discontinue programs that are not meeting their targets. Appears to me that they felt some pressure to do some things quickly and perhaps rushed programs out without fully considering impact. Those who feel that any particular decision is undesirable should communicate their views directly to Celebrity. I suggested using the contactmichael@celebrity.com to communicate thoughts.

 

That's exactly what I've done.

[pris993]

We have been cruising on X since about 2001 or so, we are elite. We cruise other lines too, Princess, HAL, Cunard and NCL.

 

We have never seen X as better than the other lines. We did feel X over promised in its PR and learned what we liked and didn't. All cruise lines are changing and so are their passenger mix today.

 

When we cruise X on the newer ships we no longer book CC or AQ class, since the cabins are all the same. We booked a 1B on our next cruise on the Silhouette. We don't care for food or service in the MDR on X, so we skip the MDR and enjoy the buffet instead. With the money we saved on the cabin we were thinking we would go to a specialty restrauant on the Silhouette. Given recent X reviews we probably will stick to the buffet. We also enjoy buying some meals in ports, especially when we are in the Mediterranean.

 

The bottom line for us, these ships are really floating hotels, so we book the itinerary of interest and go with the flow on everything else. Each cruise line has its pluses and minuses, passenger need to know what is most important to them and go with it.

[Orator]

I have not sailed with Celebrity in 8 years. We enjoyed our Infinity cruise, but wanted to try other lines as well, and have done so. We periodically think about going back to Celebrity, although we would not prefer the Solstice class ships.

 

I am interested in knowing, from Celebrity loyals, what specifically defines this concept of "Modern Luxury", "higher end of the market," "upscaleness", "step up in ambiance," etc. that I read about on this and other threads. This image gets referred to a lot, but never really defined. I am still wondering, "What is the Celebrity product?"

 

Anyone care to plunge in with specifics? I would particularly value the views of those who have sailed other lines as well, and can make comparisons. However, I am not interested in smear campaigns against other cruise lines.

 

Also, is the "best" of Celebrity (as you define it) reserved for the Solstice class ships, or does it extend to the Millennium and Century classes as well?

 

Any takers?

 

Let me take a stab: There was a podcast that was mentioned on these boards some time ago where a VP tried to describe "Modern Luxury". Perhaps someone can bring back that podcast here. IMHO what Celebrity appears to be doing (and I've said this many times in past posts, forgive me for repeating) is attempting to lure the younger, higher end cruiser. "Modern" would trigger thoughts of" new", "young", etc.. "Luxury" would indicate something plush, exclusive, etc.. Most new announcements have centered on the new Suite upgrades including a private lounge and special restaurant. More specialty dining options for top suites. From reading comments from top suite cruisers on these boards and having discussions with some on the ships, I'm convinced that the appeal is working. Of course the concept has met with considerable controversy. Just look at the number of posts discussing "new perks" and "class system". The concept involves all classes of ships, including Century where passengers in top suites have a private lounge. But, remember Century has been sold prior to the full implementation of the new program. people will like if it works for them, hate it if it doesn't. Some just won't care one way or the other. I'm sure that Celebrity will evaluate and revise the program as necessary. Hope this helps.

[richsea]

Another thanks for pointing out this article. It is ironic that the article mentions the entertainment on NCL's Breakaway, the irony being that it seems that this new entertainment director is trying to follow NCL's entertainment direction, in essence turning Celebrity into another NCL. Not at all a good sign. :(

 

We've only been on one NCL cruise, & that while Celebrity is by far our favorite line, NCL's entertainment was much better, & more diverse than Celebrity's.

[Beachdude]

For Celebrity and RCI, this is not the case, not sure how other lines are doing. They are sailing above their maximum listed capacity year to year, last year at 104% of capacity, and have remained profitable. So not really huge issue or struggle at all in filling their ships. This is taken straight from their annual 10K SEC stock filings.

 

It is true, just because ships are full doesn't mean they are filling them at the prices listed. If it were not true, why the cuts? But don't take my word for it, find a TA who works with most of the lines and you learn that cruise lines are struggling to maintain any kind of profit, much less growth. Go check on a Celebrity ship leaving in lets say two weeks and see how full it is.

 

Burt

[insidecabin]

For Celebrity and RCI, this is not the case, not sure how other lines are doing. They are sailing above their maximum listed capacity year to year, last year at 104% of capacity, and have remained profitable. So not really huge issue or struggle at all in filling their ships. This is taken straight from their annual 10K SEC stock filings.

 

all the lines run 100%+ occupancy the majority of profit come from the on board money.

[cle-guy]

It is true, just because ships are full doesn't mean they are filling them at the prices listed. If it were not true, why the cuts? But don't take my word for it, find a TA who works with most of the lines and you learn that cruise lines are struggling to maintain any kind of profit, much less growth. Go check on a Celebrity ship leaving in lets say two weeks and see how full it is.

 

Burt

 

Why the cuts? because of:

 

Truth of the matter is we like old style (10 years ago) elegant experience at yesterdays prices.

 

As to profit, while I do not follow other lines business models or performance yet, I again point you to RCI's 10k and 1Q SEC filings, they are in fact profitable, stock price readily and steadily increasing. Although Q1 was off - though still profitable - they expect the rest of the year to make up for it and many analysts have increased their views of the stock recently.

 

As to how full are ships in actuality, I can say my Eclipse TA was 100% cabin occupied, they even had a sign at guest services indicating no cabins were available for upgrade or swapping.

 

I randomly chose Eclipse May 24th baltic sea sailing, and find only 8 available cabins using the "german site". The next sailing same ship has only 4 available cabins as of today. I've been following the November TA for Constellation, and already all Aquaclass and Suites are sold out, it leaves in 5 and a half months, and 2 categories sold out already.

 

What they are doing is keeping the standard cruise fare stagnant or changing it slightly, while attempting to maximize other revenue streams, a'la increased specialty dining fees, and pushing drink package upgrades from classic to premium.

Edited May 22, 2014 by cle-guy

[jgreenwo17]

I have 2 open booking for celebrity, I cruised on the summit in 2007 for a 14 night to Hawaii and it was incredible, we stayed in concierge class for both of us it was under 3600. But after joining CC and reading all the complaints, and the very high prices, I might give up the open booking and take the loss. Why would anyone risk their cruise and money on celebrity again?

 

 

Cruising is wicked awesome

 

I have cruised HAL, Princess, and yes the fun ships. I just finished a 10 night Hawaiin cruise to Vancouver aboard the Solstice. Of all the cruises I've been on, the Celebrity cruise was the best overall. It wasn't perfect but what cruise is? (90% perfect).

 

I think their price points are pretty competitive with other lines on most itineraries. Especially if you get promotional perks.

 

I purchased an open booking while aboard the Solstice. It is the best way to go for a TA or TP as the perks are not available for them. You get onboard credit and reduced deposits.

 

I'd give X another try.

[CathyCruises]

I'm really curious to know how someone who hasn't sailed celebrity in eight years knows that they would not like the solstice class ships. In my opinion those 5 ships are the reason that we continue to sail with Celebrity!!

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Forums mobile app

[Smallfamily]

We cruise royal and celebrity only. We have never had a bad cruise and we've taken a lot. We feel royal has better entertainment and celebrity has better service and food. If you travel with a good attitude and someone you enjoy traveling with that's all you need 😄

 

 

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[FortyNinerLiz]

We cruise royal and celebrity only. We have never had a bad cruise and we've taken a lot. We feel royal has better entertainment and celebrity has better service and food. If you travel with a good attitude and someone you enjoy traveling with that's all you need 😄

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Forums

 

AMEN! AMEN! AMEN! Can we hear other AMENs!!!!???

[boogs]

It is true, just because ships are full doesn't mean they are filling them at the prices listed. If it were not true, why the cuts? But don't take my word for it, find a TA who works with most of the lines and you learn that cruise lines are struggling to maintain any kind of profit, much less growth. Go check on a Celebrity ship leaving in lets say two weeks and see how full it is.

 

I randomly chose Eclipse May 24th baltic sea sailing, and find only 8 available cabins using the "german site". The next sailing same ship has only 4 available cabins as of today. I've been following the November TA for Constellation, and already all Aquaclass and Suites are sold out, it leaves in 5 and a half months, and 2 categories sold out already.

 

Our next cruise is on the Millennium starting on Feb 1, which is early in the season for Asia. Other than the less popular inside and ocean view staterooms which have a few dozen available between them, only twelve staterooms are available across the entire ship - one veranda, eight concierge class, and three suites. Aquaclass is sold out. This cruise is still 8 months away. Prices have recently gone up on all remaining categories. A C2 concierge class is now $900 MORE than when we booked ours seven months ago.

 

On the March 15, 2015 Asia cruise on Millennium, still 10 months away, all veranda, concierge class, aquaclass, and suites are sold out. Only insides and ocean view are available, and in limited numbers.

 

Yeah, they are REALLY having a hard time filling their ships. I hope they can survive this chronic 'sold out' situation they are struggling with. :rolleyes:

Edited May 23, 2014 by boogs

[Tagsalong]

all the lines run 100%+ occupancy the majority of profit come from the on board money.

 

Actually it's 40% of the revenue comes from on-board spending, per the quarterly and annual reports. They do not show the profit breakdown.

 

And per on board revenue managers, the on-board revenue can be as high as 60% on the short cruises and as low as 30% on the longer (ie 14 days) cruises.

Edited May 23, 2014 by Tagsalong

[teecee60]

I have not sailed with Celebrity in 8 years. We enjoyed our Infinity cruise, but wanted to try other lines as well, and have done so. We periodically think about going back to Celebrity, although we would not prefer the Solstice class ships.

 

I am interested in knowing, from Celebrity loyals, what specifically defines this concept of "Modern Luxury", "higher end of the market," "upscaleness", "step up in ambiance," etc. that I read about on this and other threads. This image gets referred to a lot, but never really defined. I am still wondering, "What is the Celebrity product?"

 

Anyone care to plunge in with specifics? I would particularly value the views of those who have sailed other lines as well, and can make comparisons. However, I am not interested in smear campaigns against other cruise lines.

 

Also, is the "best" of Celebrity (as you define it) reserved for the Solstice class ships, or does it extend to the Millennium and Century classes as well?

 

Any takers?

 

First off, I think that I am about as A-typical a consumer as you can possibly imagine. Slick marketing, fancy packaging, media hype, being "in with the in crowd" and flashy ad campaigns do not influence me IN THE LEAST.

 

In addition to Celebrity, I have cruised with NCL, Princess and Carnival, but I guess some might consider me a Celebrity loyalist, with which I would probably have to agree, as 6 out of my last 7 cruises have been with them. :o

 

My first Celebrity cruise was also on Infinity and I absolutely LOVED it. Partly because of the 14 night Panama Canal itinerary, partly because of the price, ($799pp) and partly because I thought the food and service, as well as the overall value, were a step up from my previous cruises on NCL. :)

 

I am curious as to what other cruise lines you have tried, and why you feel you might not enjoy S class ships. I'd also like to recommend that you should at least give them a try. ;)

 

"Modern Luxury" (to me) is nothing more than a ridiculous and meaningless slogan... dreamed up by marketing and PR types... to try to peddle a product (increase profits) by making it sound more attractive.

 

It is senseless drivel, hype, propaganda... aimed at weak minded consumers to get them to open their wallets so they can be THOUGHT of (by others AND themselves)as hip, cool, classy, or sophisticated. :rolleyes:

 

The "after cruise surveys" being emailed by Celebrity to recent cruisers is not only interesting, but very telling, ESPECIALLY in its questions concerning "how I view myself." No wonder shrinks, councellors and "personal life coaches" are such booming areas of the economy.

 

What is the Celebrity product? It is, overall, (at least in my opinion) the absolute BEST bang for the buck available in the cruise line industry.

 

Beautiful ships, good food, great service, pretty good entertainment, and absolutely INCREDIBLE *V*A*L*U*E*

 

I can't stay at a Motel 6 and eat three meals at Burger King (let alone get free elite drinks) for the $45/day average cost of my 89 days on Celebrity.

Edited May 23, 2014 by teecee60

[insidecabin]

Actually it's 40% of the revenue comes from on-board spending, per the quarterly and annual reports. They do not show the profit breakdown.

 

And per on board revenue managers, the on-board revenue can be as high as 60% on the short cruises and as low as 30% on the longer (ie 14 days) cruises.

 

 

Look at the costs, they are in there, you can work out the where the surplus is coming from that pays for the non operational costs and the profits.

[insidecabin]

From the 2013 RCCL report.

 

71.9% is ticker revenue

28.1% is onboard/other.

 

29.6% is selling commissions etc.

43.0% is running the ship

 

7.1% is the cost to run the onboard

 

10.2% other operating(mostly the cost of ship depreciation)

 

10% surplus (there must be a rounding 0.1% is missing)

 

All the ticket revenue(71.9%) is taken up by the selling costs and the running cost(72.6%)

 

Although some of the running costs will be onboard revenue generation related like some of the wages(10.6%) and food(5.6%) it won't be much as we know most of the service related wage bill is from the grats.