You Paid and Princess Listened

[LewesBeach]

I'm ok w raising prices occasionally for existing pay-for venues. It keeps prices competitive and allows people to book at a reasonable price and then pay from an ala carte menu once onboard if you can afford it. But refunding OBC is outrageous, you're getting free money! Who in Princess ever allowed that to happen? Use it or lose it!!

[Iamcruzin]

Thank you! I think $50 per person per day more for everyone on the ship, drinks included, would be perfect. Don't drink? Well, enjoy the better food and entertainment it would provide. People who truly want a la carte cruising can choose a different cruise line. Something has to halt the race to the bottom that Princess is currently caught up in.

They get $50 a day per person for the new drink package. I don't see and incentive for the cruise line to change their structure. As far as food quality I don't have any problem with the food quality I really don't think it has declined as much as people claim and I don't think the specialty restaurants are offering better choices. I enjoyed my prime rib in the MDR better than the steak I had in the steakhouse.

[PrincessLuver]

We live here and the cruise always work out cheaper than a land version.

 

our base cruise prices are around €100-€150pd for two of us.

 

You struggle to do hotel,lunch and dinner for that in most european ports/cities.

 

Our next Cruise is £30pppn and we definately could not do the UK for that as in most places that would just cover the room.

 

You get way better travel benefits with a good hotel and airline rewards program then you do with a cruise rewards programs. Most people do not know the first thing about how to travel first class on almost very little spend. Cruising basically exists for people who love to consume food and destinations and IMHO are not really world travelers......:)

[Loonbeam]

That sounds about right. Before people start going well "I" don't spend that much - this would be a reasonable average over all passengers on a ship...

 

Excursions are probably the highest dollar amount charge (some jewelry purchases may be high but I doubt they sell that many diamond rings on a given cruise), alcohol the highest volume.

 

Interesting. If that is gross revenue, that would mean that the average cruise passenger spends an additional 1/3 or so of their fare on shipboard account charges. In other words, someone spending $750 on cabin fare would, on average, charge another $250 to their shipboard account.

[PrincessLuver]

An officer on Princess once told us that all they wanted were full cabins, regardless of the price. (bums on seats)

They rely on the passenger spending onboard.

 

Just like LAs Vegas....they like to get you there on the cheap and then they are zen masters at separating you from your money once they have you in town...:D:D

[PescadoAmarillo]

They get $50 a day per person for the new drink package. I don't see and incentive for the cruise line to change their structure. As far as food quality I don't have any problem with the food quality I really don't think it has declined as much as people claim and I don't think the specialty restaurants are offering better choices. I enjoyed my prime rib in the MDR better than the steak I had in the steakhouse.

 

The $50pp per day would be from everyone, not just 75 or 100 passengers per cruise. It would add $150000 per ship per day. The cost of providing the liquor for the all you can drink package is far less than half that, probably less than 25% of that.

 

Princess has indicated that they want to change their structure, which means they probably need to change their structure.

[Ethel5]

The $50pp per day would be from everyone, not just 75 or 100 passengers per cruise. It would add $150000 per ship per day. The cost of providing the liquor for the all you can drink package is far less than half that, probably less than 25% of that.

 

Princess has indicated that they want to change their structure, which means they probably need to change their structure.

 

There are those of us who don't drink and don't wish to subsidize other's habits. They have an all you can drink package that should satisfy the drinkers. Your argument that we would enjoy better food and entertainment doesn't hold water as it "ain't gonna happen." They can change their structure, but the bottom line will rule and upgrading amenities, food, shows etc will stay the same as they feed the bottom line.

[Colo Cruiser]

An officer on Princess once told us that all they wanted were full cabins, regardless of the price. (bums on seats)

They rely on the passenger spending onboard.

 

Standard business model.

Can't make money if you don't have the bodies onboard.

Edited May 30, 2014 by Colo Cruiser

[Iamcruzin]

There are those of us who don't drink and don't wish to subsidize other's habits. They have an all you can drink package that should satisfy the drinkers. Your argument that we would enjoy better food and entertainment doesn't hold water as it "ain't gonna happen." They can change their structure, but the bottom line will rule and upgrading amenities, food, shows etc will stay the same as they feed the bottom line.

 

 

 

I agree we will just be paying more and what you pay for up front is not necessarily what you get when you board 2 yrs later from the time you book your cruise. Just read the Celebrity boards and how they changed their classic beverage package from the time booked until the time of embarkation. Granted they have the package as a perk but some passengers paid for the package and were affected by the change.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[lexdisic]

 

Our next Cruise is £30pppn and we definately could not do the UK for that as in most places that would just cover the room.

 

Do tell where & when

[RDC1]

The all inclusive cruise are on much smaller ships.

 

If 3560+ passengers on the Royal are paying $100 more per day, I doubt that all of them could book a specialty restaurant on a seven day cruise.

 

Take a look at what lines charge for various packages that they offer. A full drinks package by itself in is excess of $50 per day. As such you would not see anything more then all inclusive drinks for a $50 increase in fares. Thus to get what the person I had been responding to wanted for a $50 increase in fares you would actually need to go higher, probably more in the $100 range. Also if they go with all inclusive in fares they would need to expand the size of such venues to manage the requests. Even the all inclusive lines such as Crystal, is now limiting the number of times you can eat free in the specialty venues.

 

Now the person I had been responding to who stated.

 

"If I was paying $50pp per day more and still being approached about wine tastings, and still hearing BINGO and art auction and spa seminar announcements, I certainly wouldn't return. But it would be well worth $50pp per day to not only get unlimited drinks (which would still yield Princess a huge profit) but also to have a more upscale, all inclusive cruise experience (though I would still expect Chefs Table and specialty restaurants...heck, Seaborne has a specialty restaurant). "

 

So if they wanted all of that including Chefs table, specialty restuarants, reduction in pushing for spa, wine tasting, bingo, etc. as will as all inclusive drinks it would certainly not be for $50 but some number substantially higher.

Edited May 30, 2014 by RDC1

[SeaTheWorldBySea]

There are those of us who don't drink and don't wish to subsidize other's habits. They have an all you can drink package that should satisfy the drinkers. Your argument that we would enjoy better food and entertainment doesn't hold water as it "ain't gonna happen." They can change their structure, but the bottom line will rule and upgrading amenities, food, shows etc will stay the same as they feed the bottom line.

 

Agree! I have tried to say this but did not express my thoughts as well as you have. Raising our daily rate that much to pay for the drinks of others would likely run us off. On our upcoming cruise, that would be an additional $2800. We do not want, nor can we afford, an all inclusive - if we did we would not have been cruising Princess for the past 15 years.

[RDC1]

The $50pp per day would be from everyone, not just 75 or 100 passengers per cruise. It would add $150000 per ship per day. The cost of providing the liquor for the all you can drink package is far less than half that, probably less than 25% of that.

 

Princess has indicated that they want to change their structure, which means they probably need to change their structure.

 

The point is not the comparison to their costs, but instead the impact on their revenue structure. Today they sell a number of drink packages. In addition to that they get substantial revenue from individually sold drinks by the time you consider alcohol, coffee, soft drinks, etc. I would suspect that the average number is a substantial percentage of what the all inclusive drink packages are sold for.

 

Keep an eye on Celebrity because they might be moving in that direction with how they have been using their drink packages as part of their incentives at the same time as their base fees have gone up. However, even there after including them they have come out with price increases and other limits on what can be purchased under them. The way they have been using the packages seems almost like a trial for going inclusive on the drink packages.

[RDC1]

Agree! I have tried to say this but did not express my thoughts as well as you have. Raising our daily rate that much to pay for the drinks of others would likely run us off. On our upcoming cruise, that would be an additional $2800. We do not want, nor can we afford, an all inclusive - if we did we would not have been cruising Princess for the past 15 years.

 

I agree. We will cruise 70 days on Princess next year. We do not spend much on drinks, (specialty coffee, a soft drink per day and at most 1 glass of wine), but do spend on excursions. An increase in rates to include drinks would have us on another line immediately.

[PescadoAmarillo]

Your argument that we would enjoy better food and entertainment doesn't hold water as it "ain't gonna happen." They can change their structure, but the bottom line will rule and upgrading amenities, food, shows etc will stay the same as they feed the bottom line.

How do you know that none of the additional revenue would get used to enhance the passenger cruise experience? I haven't said that it would, only that, if it didn't, people would not continue to cruise on Princess. But to say with certainty that it wouldn't, I have to wonder at your prescience.

 

People seem to think that there is this thing called the "bottom line" that companies seek to feed at all cost. In reality, Princess has been tasked with providing an ROI to CCL for use of its capital. I suspect that they have a bit of latitude in how they achieve that ROI...higher revenue along with a more premium experience (such as on Seaborne, who is similarly tasked) or lower revenue with a more economical cruise experience (as on Carnival). You don't see Seaborne, with it's higher fares, offering a Carnival experience just to "feed the bottom line". That would last about three months, just as Princess wouldn't be successful raising rates but leaving the "30 minutes of entertainment plus game shows" model unchanged.

 

When I start cruising for $50pp per day but face a barrage of on board selling opportunities, it's time to either move to a more premium cruise line or stop cruising. But there's the rub...the more premium cruise lines aren't $150 or $200 pp per day; they're $450 to $1000 pp per day. The leap is huge, in part because, as others have pointed out, the ships are generally smaller. And somewhere in between the two is where I feel there is a market for all of us who dislike nickel and diming and don't mind paying more for our cruise (those who dislike nickel and diming and still want to pay $50pp per day for their cruise are living in denial).

[PescadoAmarillo]

Keep an eye on Celebrity because they might be moving in that direction with how they have been using their drink packages as part of their incentives at the same time as their base fees have gone up. However, even there after including them they have come out with price increases and other limits on what can be purchased under them. The way they have been using the packages seems almost like a trial for going inclusive on the drink packages.

I agree, and to some extent, HAL is doing the same. I would like to see Princess consider these their competition, instead of Carnival and RC, and I'm sure they're scratching their heads after the Alfredos/room service reversal and trying to figure it out for themselves. They don't have the same demographic of younger, first time cruisers that Carnival and RC have, the "buy everything, do everything, drink everything" demographic. Obviously their passengers are less tolerant to on board charges.

[insidecabin]

Do tell where & when

 

Next week 12nights round UK, Ruby.

 

Came down to £399 and the $75pp OBC brought it just under £30pppn.

[RDC1]

How do you know that none of the additional revenue would get used to enhance the passenger cruise experience? I haven't said that it would, only that, if it didn't, people would not continue to cruise on Princess. But to say with certainty that it wouldn't, I have to wonder at your prescience.

 

People seem to think that there is this thing called the "bottom line" that companies seek to feed at all cost. In reality, Princess has been tasked with providing an ROI to CCL for use of its capital. I suspect that they have a bit of latitude in how they achieve that ROI...higher revenue along with a more premium experience (such as on Seaborne, who is similarly tasked) or lower revenue with a more economical cruise experience (as on Carnival). You don't see Seaborne, with it's higher fares, offering a Carnival experience just to "feed the bottom line". That would last about three months, just as Princess wouldn't be successful raising rates but leaving the "30 minutes of entertainment plus game shows" model unchanged.

 

When I start cruising for $50pp per day but face a barrage of on board selling opportunities, it's time to either move to a more premium cruise line or stop cruising. But there's the rub...the more premium cruise lines aren't $150 or $200 pp per day; they're $450 to $1000 pp per day. The leap is huge, in part because, as others have pointed out, the ships are generally smaller. And somewhere in between the two is where I feel there is a market for all of us who dislike nickel and diming and don't mind paying more for our cruise (those who dislike nickel and diming and still want to pay $50pp per day for their cruise are living in denial).

 

There is a reason why they are on smaller ships. It is the size that they can fill at the price point. Some might be willing to pay more, but not enough to fill the larger ships consistently.

 

 

Also take a look at the smaller Princess ships such as Pacific Princess. It is in the size range of some of the all inclusive. so if the majority of the cost was do to ship size then the fares on the smaller Princess ships should be much higher. Since they are not and since Princess does not sail these at a loss. That would imply that providing the additional services have a higher cost then you expect.

[RDC1]

I agree, and to some extent, HAL is doing the same. I would like to see Princess consider these their competition, instead of Carnival and RC, and I'm sure they're scratching their heads after the Alfredos/room service reversal and trying to figure it out for themselves. They don't have the same demographic of younger, first time cruisers that Carnival and RC have, the "buy everything, do everything, drink everything" demographic. Obviously their passengers are less tolerant to on board charges.

 

Princess was reacting to the comments. Their response implied that the changes will still occur, just announced and implemented differently.

 

Celebrity costs are much much higher for their add ons. My specialty coffee drink cost 35% more than on Princess, the specialty dining venues are double those of Princess. Celebrity has substantially fewer entertainment options in the evening. Most of the venues on Celebrity S class are built around their Atrium and are drinking venues.

 

Considering Princess and HAL are part of the same division of Carnival, run by the same person, I doubt that they view each other as competition, but are more focused on having each appeal to different parts of the market.

[lexdisic]

The point is not the comparison to their costs, but instead the impact on their revenue structure.

 

Keep an eye on Celebrity because they might be moving in that direction with how they have been using their drink packages as part of their incentives at the same time as their base fees have gone up.

 

Try telling them that on the X boards - most are convinced they're "free" and their cruise prices are not influenced by the perks. Taking a look at the price tracking website - most lines are showing a steady increase in average cabin prices prices, but X had an overall increase around Sept 2012 and then some nasty spikes around Nov '13 and Feb '14 - coincidence?

It now appears that the Princess prices have hiked recently and alot are saying PCC have very generous OBC for numerous reasons - another coincidence I suppose.

 

What I find a little strange in strategy is that they are pandering to those who want a cheap base price, and those very people are the ones who are least likely to spend once on board and add very little to revenue - certainly not when being nickel and dimed as they will choose not to partake in an upcharge service. It will then just alienate those that do or are willing to pay an increase in base fare

 

Please dont flame me - its JMO :)

[Roses2]

Virtually everyone is missing an essential point.

 

The companies that are in competition are the largest cruise company CCL (Carnival Cruise Lines) and the second largest RCL (Royal Caribbean Cruise lines).

 

Each of these companies is a conglomerate.

 

CCL includes Carnival Cruise Lines, Holland America Line, Princess Cruises and Seabourn in North America; P&O Cruises (UK), and Cunard in the United Kingdom; AIDA Cruises in Germany; Costa Cruises in Southern Europe; Iberocruceros in Spain; and P&O Cruises (Australia) in Australia.

 

RCL includes six cruise brands comprising Royal Caribbean International, Celebrity Cruises, Pullmantur, Azamara Club Cruises, CDF Croisières de France, and TUI Cruises.

 

While the individual cruise lines compete within the larger companies, profit and loss only is important to the bottom line for the company -- CCL or RCL.

 

Each company covers a broad spectrum of the cruise industry from entry level through main stream, to all-inclusive luxury.

 

While CCL is a much larger company currently a share if its stock is about $40 while a share of RCL is about $55.

[PescadoAmarillo]

Next week 12nights round UK, Ruby.

 

Came down to £399 and the $75pp OBC brought it just under £30pppn.

Ah, you lucky Brits get all the deals! ;)

[RDC1]

Try telling them that on the X boards - most are convinced they're "free" and their cruise prices are not influenced by the perks. Taking a look at the price tracking website - most lines are showing a steady increase in average cabin prices prices, but X had an overall increase around Sept 2012 and then some nasty spikes around Nov '13 and Feb '14 - coincidence?

It now appears that the Princess prices have hiked recently and alot are saying PCC have very generous OBC for numerous reasons - another coincidence I suppose.

 

What I find a little strange in strategy is that they are pandering to those who want a cheap base price, and those very people are the ones who are least likely to spend once on board and add very little to revenue - certainly not when being nickel and dimed as they will choose not to partake in an upcharge service. It will then just alienate those that do or are willing to pay an increase in base fare

 

Please dont flame me - its JMO :)

 

There was certainly correlation between the Celebrity perks and their base cruise fares, especially since the fees went up mostly on ocean view and above, those that were able to get the perks, where as the inside that could not get them remained fairly flat.

 

On Princess the Correlation seemed to be tied to where they reduced capacity by shifting ships to Asia. Also some increases where they replaced the Emerald by the Royal. Princess has not made any recent changes in the OBC they give. Pretty much the same for the past several years as far as shareholder, veteran, etc. FCC obc values have dropped.

 

A fair percentage of people pick based upon the cruise fare. That does not necessarily mean that they do not spend once they are on board. There is a fairly decent generic look at the breakdown on cruise ship revenue and costs at

 

http://www.cruisemarketwatch.com/home/financial-breakdown-of-typical-cruiser/

Edited May 30, 2014 by RDC1

[RDC1]

Virtually everyone is missing an essential point.

 

The companies that are in competition are the largest cruise company CCL (Carnival Cruise Lines) and the second largest RCL (Royal Caribbean Cruise lines).

 

Each of these companies is a conglomerate.

 

CCL includes Carnival Cruise Lines, Holland America Line, Princess Cruises and Seabourn in North America; P&O Cruises (UK), and Cunard in the United Kingdom; AIDA Cruises in Germany; Costa Cruises in Southern Europe; Iberocruceros in Spain; and P&O Cruises (Australia) in Australia.

 

RCL includes six cruise brands comprising Royal Caribbean International, Celebrity Cruises, Pullmantur, Azamara Club Cruises, CDF Croisières de France, and TUI Cruises.

 

While the individual cruise lines compete within the larger companies, profit and loss only is important to the bottom line for the company -- CCL or RCL.

 

Each company covers a broad spectrum of the cruise industry from entry level through main stream, to all-inclusive luxury.

 

While CCL is a much larger company currently a share if its stock is about $40 while a share of RCL is about $55.

 

Just to be clear one should be not confuse the meaning of stock price (individual share) and market cap (the value of all shares). While CCL's individual stock price is lower at S40, it has far far more shares issues and has a total market cap of approximately 30.9 billion, RCL with its share price of $55 has far fewer shares and has a market cap of only around 12.2 billion.

[insidecabin]

Ah, you lucky Brits get all the deals!

 

We wish, they don't happen as often

but with the air I think they had little chance of attracting a lot more US pax into inside cabins so might as well dump them in the UK, it was insides only the other grades only had a $150 off.

 

The regional selling off is a way to avoid price drops and having to mess with the calls from people wanting upgrades etc..

 

Some lines have been know to dump cabins through a couple of agents that have been told to be quiet about them

 

 

Anyway Roses2 post got me thinking where does Princess fit and if you were a new cruiser why would you CHoose Princess.

 

 

Have a look at te Cruise lines material aimed at new cruisers it is quite interesting how they pitch the message, with text and videos

 

I started with RCI and X as I think princess is sort of stuck in the middle

RCI "WOW"

X "modern luxury"

Princess "come back new"

Edited May 30, 2014 by insidecabin