THEY'RE BRINGING THE PROMENADE BACK!! not on Princess...BUT THEY'RE BRINGING IT BACK!

[skf]

I sailed the Royal. I sat on the wide expanse of promenade deck relaxing, sunning

Sunning is right...there is no shade there and even less on the walking/running upper deck. I like a Promenade where I can sit under a lifeboat and avoid 2nd-degree sunburn.

[Mom33]

I sailed the Royal. I sat on the wide expanse of promenade deck relaxing, sunning

 

Sunning is right...there is no shade there and even less on the walking/running upper deck. I like a Promenade where I can sit under a lifeboat and avoid 2nd-degree sunburn.

 

 

I also sat in the shade. One side of the ship is shady and one side is sunny. Depends on ship's direction. That's the beauty of it. :)

 

 

 

Sent using the Cruise Critic forums app

[PescadoAmarillo]

I also sat in the shade. One side of the ship is shady and one side is sunny. Depends on ship's direction. That's the beauty of it. :)

Of course, sometimes the shady side is also the smoky side, so you have, generally speaking, about a 25% chance of having the sunny/shady/smoke-free/smoky combination you desire. And less chance than that of finding an empty lounger in the area that meets your needs.

Edited June 23, 2014 by PescadoAmarillo

[Loonbeam]

What can be done and what is practical to do are two totally different things. The Aerodynamics alone of ships now are very different than the design of ocean liners. Two exposed decks would be a heck of a drag.

 

There's also the financial factor as to replace the cabins lost to a boat deck would mean raising the height of the ship (more drag), reducing cabin size or other amenities. Ocean liners didn't have to depend on economies of scale like the current ships do

 

Agreed - lifeboat placement has nothing to do with a Promenade deck. Ocean liners used to have a Promenade Deck and a Boat Deck - the latter providing access to life boats. Obviously a Promenade Deck can be provided in a new build along with meeting any new lifeboat access regulations. In this design aspect, Princess missed the mark with Royal and Regal.

[SeagoingMom]

You are right. Promenades do not make money! :D

LuLu

They do if pax choose a ship because it has a promenade deck, and reject a ship because it does not. My DH and I are such pax. But we choose a ship with a promenade deck for "promenading." Walking (and sometimes relaxing on a full-length deck chair) on a quiet deck close to water level is what we value, and we prefer not to sail on ships that do not have such a deck. A "promenade deck" that was actually a busy, crowded outdoor plaza or mall would not interest us in the least.

[Mom33]

Of course, sometimes the shady side is also the smoky side, so you have, generally speaking, about a 25% chance of having the sunny/shady/smoke-free/smoky combination you desire. And less chance than that of finding an empty lounger in the area that meets your needs.

 

 

There aren't any full loungers on the Grand class promenade decks. Despite the lifeboats hanging overhead, the sun does intrude on the promenade deck of the grand class ships also depending on the time of day and the course the ship is sailing. :)

[Loonbeam]

Looking at the very successful lines and ships that don't have them, I'm willing to make the assumption its not a deal breaker for a lot of people, and the lines know it.

 

They do if pax choose a ship because it has a promenade deck, and reject a ship because it does not. My DH and I are such pax. But we choose a ship with a promenade deck for "promenading." Walking (and sometimes relaxing on a full-length deck chair) on a quiet deck close to water level is what we value, and we prefer not to sail on ships that do not have such a deck. A "promenade deck" that was actually a busy, crowded outdoor plaza or mall would not interest us in the least.

[SoCal Cruiser78]

Looking at the very successful lines and ships that don't have them, I'm willing to make the assumption its not a deal breaker for a lot of people, and the lines know it.

 

I'm sure you are correct. Many of the younger crop of cruisers have never been on a ship that had them, and don't know what they are missing. But they do have rock climbing walls and water slides ;).

 

I imagine that is why HAL still has them on their ships. They cater to an older and more traditional clientele that WOULD miss them.

[dmwnc1959]

I'm sure you are correct. Many of the younger crop of cruisers have never been on a ship that had them, and don't know what they are missing. But they do have rock climbing walls and water slides ;).

 

I imagine that is why HAL still has them on their ships. They cater to an older and more traditional clientele that WOULD miss them.

 

 

Holland-America "still has them on their ships" because the newest ships in the fleet (Signature- and Vista-class) are based off of a platform that began in 2000 with the Spirit-class. They have had absolutely NO new builds based off of a NEW design since then. Have you seen the artist renderings of their new Pinnacle-class ship due Feb 2016? It appears there is very little if any promenade deck, and that the lifeboats are deck mounted and not suspended above on davits like on their current fleet. This is their very first new build ship based on a new design since these supposed new safety regulations.

 

:D

Edited June 24, 2014 by dmwnc1959

[PescadoAmarillo]

There aren't any full loungers on the Grand class promenade decks.

 

I think I said that in an earlier post...

 

If your intent is to lounge, the Royal/Regal promenade is actually a better design. Sitting nearly upright in a chair while people walk and run by is not nearly as comfortable as being reclined in a heavily padded lounger with no one between you and the view of the water.

[SoCal Cruiser78]

Holland-America "still has them on their ships" because the newest ships in the fleet (Signature- and Vista-class) are based off of a platform that began in 2000 with the Spirit-class...Have you seen the artist renderings of their new Pinnacle-class ship due Feb 2016? It appears there is very little if any promenade deck...

 

I have seen some preliminary renderings, but am hopeful there will be revisions. A number of the HAL faithful on CC have already said that if there is no traditional promenade deck on the final version of the new build, it will be a deal-breaker for them.

[bdjam]

What can be done and what is practical to do are two totally different things. The Aerodynamics alone of ships now are very different than the design of ocean liners. Two exposed decks would be a heck of a drag.

 

There's also the financial factor as to replace the cabins lost to a boat deck would mean raising the height of the ship (more drag), reducing cabin size or other amenities. Ocean liners didn't have to depend on economies of scale like the current ships do

 

I think that we should give ship designers the credit that they can probably resolve any practicality issue that might come up. Apparently there is a solution in the design that spurred this topic. There's also a financial factor to consider in any design - might be financially practical to get rid of the sea walks and fountains and to build an exterior Promenade.

 

Sorry, I don't buy the argument.

Edited June 24, 2014 by bdjam

[dmwnc1959]

The 4th ship of the Dream-class, Costa Diadema (subject of this thread), departed out on Sea Trials. The exterior walking promenade deck is the deck above the lifeboats, and for the most part is completely exposed to the elements. There is a double height glass wall that goes almost all the way down both sides. The large 'holes' in the hull directly below the lifeboats are called Cove Balcony cabins on the three Carnival Cruise Line ships in this class.

 

(Credit Jean Burlon)

Edited June 28, 2014 by dmwnc1959

[dmwnc1959]

I have seen some preliminary renderings, but am hopeful there will be revisions. A number of the HAL faithful on CC have already said that if there is no traditional promenade deck on the final version of the new build, it will be a deal-breaker for them.

 

 

They had better be prepared for a deal-breaker then.

 

;)

[kendon]

Looking at the very successful lines and ships that don't have them, I'm willing to make the assumption its not a deal breaker for a lot of people, and the lines know it.

 

Totally agree. What the Regal/Royal is missing, it picks up in other ammenities.

[Calgon1]

OK. Where are the lifeboats? I didn't see any in the photos.

 

 

They don't need any Pam. They're Costa. They sail close to shore. . . . TO CLOSE . . . :eek:

(Sorry. That was a cheap shot) :o

[IECalCruiser]

The 4th ship of the Dream-class, Costa Diadema (subject of this thread), departed out on Sea Trials. The exterior walking promenade deck is the deck above the lifeboats, and for the most part is completely exposed to the elements. There is a double height glass wall that goes almost all the way down both sides. The large 'holes' in the hull directly below the lifeboats are called Cove Balcony cabins on the three Carnival Cruise Line ships in this class.

 

(Credit Jean Burlon)

Thanks for the photo Dave. That Promenade has much more in common with the Royal/Regal than the older Princess Promenades being exposed to the elements. We are looking forward to spending some time in the loungers on the "shady side" while sailing on the Regal in Med this September.

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Forums mobile app

[dmwnc1959]

Thanks for the photo Dave. That Promenade has much more in common with the Royal/Regal than the older Princess Promenades being exposed to the elements. We are looking forward to spending some time in the loungers on the "shady side" while sailing on the Regal in Med this September.

 

 

Hi Brian,

 

Most every large, new-build cruise ship that I've seen emerge in the past several years based off of a completely new design are all the same; an exposed promenade with lifeboats either suspended off to the side of the ship or deck mounted. It fits a pattern. The singular exception I can find from the past five years are the Disney Dream sisters, and I'm not sure why.

 

I don't know if these newer designs are based off of the supposed new safety regulations, but the only new build ships coming out in the future I have read about that do not fit the previously mentioned pattern are the Viking Star and RSS Explorer, both hold under 1000 passengers and are around 50k grt. All of the others are mass market ships around 100-170k grt.

 

And I'm wondering when these supposed new regulations took effect? There are a few notable, brand new build designs that have come out since 2008 starting with the Celebrity Solstice-, MSC Fantasia-, and Oceania Riviera-class ships that also have their lifeboats deck mounted with limited, exposed promenades, as well as the Carnival Dream-class with lifeboats suspended over the side but with a totally exposed promenade. Add to that the Norwegian Epic, (4) Norwegian Breakaway and Breakaway Plus-class, (3) Royal-class for Princess and P&O, (2) Mein Schiff 3-class of TUI, (2) AIDAprima-class, (4) MSC ships including the (2) Project Seaside, HAL's Pinnacle-class, and (3) RCI Quantum-class ships. All have their life boats either deck mounted or suspended off to the side of the hull, and not recessed into the hull and suspended above the promenade deck as in older designs.

 

As for your upcoming cruise (yea!) I am really looking forward to your impressions and review of Regal Princess. I sincerely hope you have a marvelous time on her.

 

:D

Edited June 29, 2014 by dmwnc1959

[IECalCruiser]

Hi Brian,

 

...

 

As for your upcoming cruise (yea!) I am really looking forward to your impressions and review of Regal Princess. I sincerely hope you have a marvelous time on her.

 

:D

Our cruise departs in 75 days and everything looks good :) I will definitely post my impressions after our cruise. The only problem with the Grand Med itinerary is that there are only 2 sea days and one overnight in Venice on the 12 day cruise so we won't be able to enjoy all the Regal has to offer. We did the Crab Shack on the Grand earlier this year so that is one dining experience we can skip on the Regal. Definitely want to try the Winemaker's Dinner though.

 

Regarding the areas most complained about on the Royal.

 

• We are in one of the forward Deluxe Balconies (E101-E110) so we won't have a small balcony and we will have a stairway.
  
• We look forward to experiencing the different Promenade deck design.
  
• We will put the TP on the counter if need be.
  
• We don't need trays in the Princess Theater because we don't order drinks there and we are going on a diet to fit into the narrower seats ;)
  

We look forward to experiencing a new ship design after 13 cruises on Grand class variants and 4 cruises on the Coral/Island.

[IECalCruiser]

Hi Brian,

 

Most every large, new-build cruise ship that I've seen emerge in the past several years based off of a completely new design are all the same; an exposed promenade with lifeboats either suspended off to the side of the ship or deck mounted. It fits a pattern. The singular exception I can find from the past five years are the Disney Dream sisters, and I'm not sure why.

 

I don't know if these newer designs are based off of the supposed new safety regulations, but the only new build ships coming out in the future I have read about that do not fit the previously mentioned pattern are the Viking Star and RSS Explorer, both hold under 1000 passengers and are around 50k grt. All of the others are mass market ships around 100-170k grt.

 

And I'm wondering when these supposed new regulations took effect? There are a few notable, brand new build designs that have come out since 2008 starting with the Celebrity Solstice-, MSC Fantasia-, and Oceania Riviera-class ships that also have their lifeboats deck mounted with limited, exposed promenades, as well as the Carnival Dream-class with lifeboats suspended over the side but with a totally exposed promenade. Add to that the Norwegian Epic, (4) Norwegian Breakaway and Breakaway Plus-class, (3) Royal-class for Princess and P&O, (2) Mein Schiff 3-class of TUI, (2) AIDAprima-class, (4) MSC ships including the (2) Project Seaside, HAL's Pinnacle-class, and (3) RCI Quantum-class ships. All have their life boats either deck mounted or suspended off to the side of the hull, and not recessed into the hull and suspended above the promenade deck as in older designs.

 

As for your upcoming cruise (yea!) I am really looking forward to your impressions and review of Regal Princess. I sincerely hope you have a marvelous time on her.

 

:D

Any idea what the balcony sizes are like on the new builds? I think that the standard Breakaway cabin balcony is similar to the standard Royal/Regal balcony but there may be more cabins with larger balconies than on the Royal/Regal.

[dmwnc1959]

Our cruise departs in 75 days...We look forward to experiencing a new ship design after 13 cruises on Grand class variants and 4 cruises on the Coral/Island.

 

At least you're going into this cruise well-informed and well-educated on the differences between the ships, and pretty much know what to expect from this new design.

 

It took me the entire two weeks aboard Royal Princess with six full sea days (and not getting off the ship the entire first week) to be able to sample and do everything that I wanted to do, including eating at all of the available venues. So don't feel bad if you can't get to it all, maybe you'll have a nice enough experience that you want to go back.

 

;)

[dmwnc1959]

Any idea what the balcony sizes are like on the new builds? I think that the standard Breakaway cabin balcony is similar to the standard Royal/Regal balcony but there may be more cabins with larger balconies than on the Royal/Regal.

 

The biggest difference between the Royal-class ships and most all of the other 'deck-mounted lifeboat' ships seems to be that the sides of the Royal-class ships are nearly completely flat, whereas the others have several large 'bump out' and recessed sections that create the opportunity for some substantially deeper balconies. There could have been more 'premium sized' balconies like you find under the SeaWalk/SeaView Bar at the angles had they had those 'bump out' and recessed areas along the superstructure.

 

Another design difference on RP of having the cabins protrude into the hallways inside instead of 'bump out' along the superstructure also creates the zig zag corridors of the Royal-class.

 

The standard balcony size on RP is smaller than the 'industry standard' (if there is such a thing) for these types of designs (deck-mounted lifeboats).

 

NCL's Breakaway- and the Royal-class ships of Princess and P&O seem to be the closest in balcony size, with the former having some significantly smaller balconies. That's interesting because the lifeboat placement on these two ships are not the same, with each class representing the two different design options (deck-mounted or suspended out from the hull). You would think the Breakaway-class would have all bigger balconies since they don't extend out over (cover up) the lifeboats, just look down onto the exposed promenade.

 

I'm not sure what the other ships (lifeboats suspended away from the hull) average as far as balcony size when compared to the NCL new builds where the promenade deck is basically built atop the lifeboats.

 

:D

[dorisis]

I also sat in the shade. One side of the ship is shady and one side is sunny. Depends on ship's direction. That's the beauty of it. :)

 

 

 

Sent using the Cruise Critic forums app

 

On the Royal there are also areas with small sofas that are shaded on the pool deck. We used those and avoided the lounges in the sun.

Edited June 29, 2014 by dorisis

[bob brown]

The biggest difference between the Royal-class ships and most all of the other 'deck-mounted lifeboat' ships seems to be that the sides of the Royal-class ships are nearly completely flat, whereas the others have several large 'bump out' and recessed sections that create the opportunity for some substantially deeper balconies. There could have been more 'premium sized' balconies like you find under the SeaWalk/SeaView Bar at the angles had they had those 'bump out' and recessed areas along the superstructure.

 

Another design difference on RP of having the cabins protrude into the hallways inside instead of 'bump out' along the superstructure also creates the zig zag corridors of the Royal-class.

 

The standard balcony size on RP is smaller than the 'industry standard' (if there is such a thing) for these types of designs (deck-mounted lifeboats).

 

NCL's Breakaway- and the Royal-class ships of Princess and P&O seem to be the closest in balcony size, with the former having some significantly smaller balconies. That's interesting because the lifeboat placement on these two ships are not the same, with each class representing the two different design options (deck-mounted or suspended out from the hull). You would think the Breakaway-class would have all bigger balconies since they don't extend out over (cover up) the lifeboats, just look down onto the exposed promenade.

 

I'm not sure what the other ships (lifeboats suspended away from the hull) average as far as balcony size when compared to the NCL new builds where the promenade deck is basically built atop the lifeboats.

 

:D

You seem quite knowledgeable in ship design...

As for smaller balconies on NCL's Breakaway Class and Princess's Royal Class....I have heard that cabins are modular units supplied to ship builder's by sub-contractor's...is it possible that even though the ships builder's are different (Meyer-Werft vs Fincantieri), that the modular cabins may come from the same sub-contractor? And that the balconies may be a part of that module instead of the hull?

I may be way off, but just curious if you know anything about this....:confused:

[dmwnc1959]

You seem quite knowledgeable in ship design...

As for smaller balconies on NCL's Breakaway Class and Princess's Royal Class....I have heard that cabins are modular units supplied to ship builder's by sub-contractor's...is it possible that even though the ships builder's are different (Meyer-Werft vs Fincantieri), that the modular cabins may come from the same sub-contractor? And that the balconies may be a part of that module instead of the hull?

 

I may be way off, but just curious if you know anything about this....:confused:

 

 

The staterooms are indeed modular construction, made in-mass at a factory off-site away from the shipyard itself, then shipped in and installed during the outfitting process once all of the ships modules are put together. I don't know what manufacturer they use for the staterooms, or if they use the same or different suppliers.

 

As for the balconies on Royal Princess (and all other cruise ships), they were/are added on during the construction of the ships superstructure. Here you can see an individual module block of the ship prior to being added to the puzzle. The balconies are in place, but the staterooms are not.

 

(Credit Princess Cruises)

Edited June 29, 2014 by dmwnc1959