Malaysian Airlines Flight

[chchgirl]

We wouldn't hesitate to fly Malaysian Air again. excellent airline. just wrong place at the wrong time.

 

Me too, kiwipete, although I hate flying and haven't flown further than NZ in the last 20 years, I flew with Malaysian then to Europe and back and found them fantastic.

 

I feel terribly sad for the families, friends and collegues of the flight. :(

[Tara Jane]

How many of us actually know which route our flight will be taking? We book our flight, know where we are scheduled for a stop over but not the exact route, particularly when booking our flights several months in advance.

Such a tragedy. Hubby and I have plans to take the grandchildren to Europe next year as we had promised them for several years. Should the parents decide not to allow them to come I will be very sad but understand their decision. I have flown Malaysian this time last year, but don't think I could comfortably fly again with them.

[OzKiwiJJ]

There is a lot of very nasty territory that flights from Australia pass over on the way to Europe. That flight radar was a bit of an eye-opener to me.

 

Of course, there is always the option to fly via the US but ...

Edited July 18, 2014 by OzKiwiJJ

[sherri3802]

A shocking thing to happen, and nothing to do with the safety or maintenance of the actual plane or the ability of its pilots.

 

BUT, I was reading that the route it flew over was one that several airlines abandoned a couple of months back as a bit risky.

 

It surprises me that Malaysian airlines still took it, but then again they weren't the only airline doing it, and perhaps they have been hard hit financially by the first tragedy, so needed to go the shortest legal routes.

 

I would say it will be a wake up call to all airlines though to review their flight paths everywhere.

On TV. I heard a transcript of a taped conversation. It seems plain that whoever hit it did not deliberately target a civilian plane, but at the same time, those in charge didn't care, they basically said tough luck, they shouldn't be in our area.

[kirst123]

Downing of Malaysian Airlines Flight en route from Amsterdam to KL, such a tragedy.

 

I hope no members of CC have family or friends on that flight. 27 Australians are on the flight. I am currently researching whether friends of mine, who are flying back home from Europe with Malaysian Airlines, were on that flight.

 

So sad!

Some of our friends had close family friends on the flight. Very sad.

[MMDown Under]

I wondered why there were so many Dutch people on board, as Amsterdam is a major international hub. However, it was a KLM code share flight.

[MMDown Under]

[quote name=sherri3802;43440772

 

BUT' date=' I was reading that the route it flew over was one that several airlines abandoned a couple of months back as a bit risky.

 

It surprises me that Malaysian airlines still took it, but then again they weren't the only airline doing it, and perhaps they have been hard hit financially by the first tragedy, so needed to go the shortest legal routes.

[/quote]

 

I had already judged Malaysian Airlines down for not checking the official record for the two people flying on false passports on the first flight which was lost.

 

Thie time, I was inclined to think they showed a lack of judgement when other airlines, Inc Qantas, detoured around Ukraine. However, I then learnt other airlines, inc Singapore Airlines, flew the same direct route, so Malaysian Airlines is the innocent party. Now I've heard another Asian airline flew the same route 20 mins later!

[KarateMan]

A shocking thing to happen, and nothing to do with the safety or maintenance of the actual plane or the ability of its pilots.

 

BUT, I was reading that the route it flew over was one that several airlines abandoned a couple of months back as a bit risky.

 

It surprises me that Malaysian airlines still took it, but then again they weren't the only airline doing it, and perhaps they have been hard hit financially by the first tragedy, so needed to go the shortest legal routes.

 

I would say it will be a wake up call to all airlines though to review their flight paths everywhere.

On TV. I heard a transcript of a taped conversation. It seems plain that whoever hit it did not deliberately target a civilian plane, but at the same time, those in charge didn't care, they basically said tough luck, they shouldn't be in our area.

 

It is that reason I have no confidence to ever fly with them in the future ever. That combined with the past incident in March is enough for me to blacklist them for life.

 

That case may have been wrong place at the wrong time, but none the less it is an area that better judgement says should have been avoided. Though my view of them was firmly planted back in March.

 

As I value life more than death I would not fly with them ever in the future. Its just the way it is.

[MMDown Under]

80 children on the flight! Can the news get any worse?

 

The world needs to unite and say enough!

[The_Big_M]

BUT, I was reading that the route it flew over was one that several airlines abandoned a couple of months back as a bit risky.

 

It surprises me that Malaysian airlines still took it, but then again they weren't the only airline doing it, and perhaps they have been hard hit financially by the first tragedy, so needed to go the shortest legal routes.

 

It's been a longstanding route, and the majority of airlines flew it. Only a couple, including Qantas changed, but that's one of those lucky things in hindsight. I still hear people say y2k was a scam because nothing major happened, but the thing is that much effort went into preventing it, so in hindsight the plans mostly worked!

 

Emirates, Singapore and Etihad, amongst others, flew the same route over Ukraine that MAS did in the hour or so after MAS was hit.

 

Nobody can guess the future, and if someone went wild around Syria (near Qantas' alternative route), maybe people would be questioning why Qantas is flying there!

 

I would say it will be a wake up call to all airlines though to review their flight paths everywhere.

 

Yes, it will, as the idea of missiles being fired into this 30k range was not something conceived of in the past. Just like the actuality of terrorists taking over planes to crash them as they did on September 11th 2001.

 

That said, a lot of things _could_ happen. But if you made plans to make sure none of them happened, you pretty likely wouldn't go anywhere, or if you did, each trip would cost $100k, and take months of preparation. Everything is weighed against its risk, or likelihood. It's practically impossible to ensure that nothing bad can happen.

[The_Big_M]

That case may have been wrong place at the wrong time, but none the less it is an area that better judgement says should have been avoided. Though my view of them was firmly planted back in March.

 

Judgement isn't perfect, and terrorists look to exploit weakness.

 

Safety in the future cannot be guaranteed.

 

And, given the majority of airlines used that flight path, it's odd to try to single them out for it.

Edited July 19, 2014 by The_Big_M

[kiwipete]

It is that reason I have no confidence to ever fly with them in the future ever. That combined with the past incident in March is enough for me to blacklist them for life.

 

That case may have been wrong place at the wrong time, but none the less it is an area that better judgement says should have been avoided. Though my view of them was firmly planted back in March.

 

As I value life more than death I would not fly with them ever in the future. Its just the way it is.

 

Would you say the same about Singapore Airlines, who were still flying that route??.

[fishtaco]

Both the pilot and the airline do not plan the route! They are directed to an approved route!

 

Questions by aviation experts and commercial pilots are now surfacing as to why MH17 was given an approved flight route 300 miles north of its usual flight path through this region and into an area where very recent military aircraft were known to have been shot down?

[The_Big_M]

NO aircraft had been shot down at that height, and it was deemed safe by the relevant authorities, and the flight path was consistent with regular variability. They all vary north and south based on traffic and winds.

 

That path has been used heavily for years, as it is over other trouble spots in the past e.g. Bosnia, Afghanistan, the middle East.

 

The issue is of course why terrorists are targeting aircraft with very long range weaponry.

[icat2000]

Would you say the same about Singapore Airlines, who were still flying that route??.

 

Exacty. This info comes from an article in The Age this morning:

 

66 other carriers flew hundreds of times in the area where MH17 was shot down in the last week. Malaysia flew there 48 times and SIA 75 times. The flight-tracking service also published an image showing an SIA flight from Copenhagen to Singapore was about 25 kilometres (15 miles) from MH17 when the Malaysian jet was brought down.

Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/world/singapore-airlines-apologises-for-insensitive-facebook-posts-after-mh17-shot-down-20140720-zux9q.html#ixzz37wpE46Fv

 

So you cannot blame Malaysia Airlines or say you won't use them because they flew this route when countless other airlines were doing the same.

[johndon]

Let's stop beating around the bush here and point our fingers at the cause of this disaster....PUTIN

this man is despicable It is he that supports, encourages, supplies and succours the ones responsible for the destruction of the Malaysian Airlines plane and the murder of the nearly 300 innocent people including poor little children on board

It is futile to even blame in any way Malaysian Airlines as they have done nothing wrong in this incident and tragedy

PUTIN MUST BE BROUGHT TO JUSTICE but I fear he never will be made accountable as he has grown too powerful

If we even think about allowing him into Australia in November to attend the G20 Conference then we must hang our heads in shame. It would be a very small gesture in banning him but as a nation it is a demonstration to the world and to PUTIN that at least Australia holds him fully accountable

 

John

[icat2000]

If we even think about allowing him into Australia in November to attend the G20 Conference then we must hang our heads in shame. It would be a very small gesture in banning him but as a nation it is a demonstration to the world and to PUTIN that at least Australia holds him fully accountable

 

John

He's probably not going to turn up anyway. But I think we should withdraw his invitation. Your right about being powerful. England and Germany are not going to pissed him off too much as they have major trade agreements with Russia.

[KarateMan]

I find it extremely difficult to fully blame Russia for this. Putting it delicately I think both sides in this conflict are just as bad as each other and I have little trust for both sides. This region of the world has had conflict and wars going back long before our generations lifetime and a lot of the dispute is beyond our understanding. Just because one side of the conflict wants to be "pro European or pro Western" does not make them the more righteous side. In fact these people could be just as bad or even worst than the Russians when it comes to who to trust.

 

All I can say is that on cruise history I have visited Russia and the Russians have treated us very well, we were well looked after, had excellent friendly tour guides and the immigration staff at cruise terminals were very professional. I would hate to judge an entire country based on this event.

 

America can hardly point the finger either as they are directly guilty of the exact same crime except with more high tech weapons and better knowledge. Iran Air Flight 655 was shot down by USS Vincennes on 3rd July 1988. In this case after the accidental downing of a civilian airliner the ships crew were still awarded "Combat Action Ribbons", the Air Warfare Commander on the ship received the "Navy Commendation Medal" and the ships Commanding Officer received the "Legion of Merit"

 

In my opinion I think it is wrong to point fingers at Russia or blame them as a nation. Many of us cruise passengers visit their ports and have had nothing but great experiences. I think this whole situation is a war zone and should have been avoided by the airlines.

[CruiserBruce]

Have you forgotten that Russia shot down KAL 007 (using a fighter plane that had plain view of the aircraft it was shooting at), then rushed to find the "black boxes", and won't release them to the world? Yes, we (the US) shot down the Iranian aircraft. And admitted it. Russia, to my knowledge, has done everything possible to conceal KAL 007. Doubt they will acknowledge any involvement in this incident as well.

 

Yes, the Russian people are nice, and we have enjoyed our time there as well. But, recently, Putin has been doing everything he can to "restore the great power" Russia was during the Cold War, and the Russian people are overwhelmingly supporting him.

Edited July 20, 2014 by CruiserBruce

[icat2000]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_airliner_shootdown_incidents

 

Quite a list of planes shot down.

 

I don't blame the Russian people as a whole. However, I do blame Putin for not doing all he can to try and get experts in to get the bodies.

 

Someone gave these rebels a BUK. Its not like they rocked up to the local used miltary hardware store and brought one. These are expensive weapons that require miltary training.

Edited July 20, 2014 by icat2000

[KarateMan]

Have you forgotten that Russia shot down KAL 007 (using a fighter plane that had plain view of the aircraft it was shooting at), then rushed to find the "black boxes", and won't release them to the world? Yes, we (the US) shot down the Iranian aircraft. And admitted it. Russia, to my knowledge, has done everything possible to conceal KAL 007. Doubt they will acknowledge any involvement in this incident as well.

 

Yes, the Russian people are nice, and we have enjoyed our time there as well. But, recently, Putin has been doing everything he can to "restore the great power" Russia was during the Cold War, and the Russian people are overwhelmingly supporting him.

 

I have not forgotten that incident. That being said I have very fond memories of the USS Vincennes. I have toured that ship and spent a lot of time on board at the hospitality of its crew.

 

My whole point is with this situation you could be "jumping out of the frying pan into the fire" if you have heard that analogy. While people are quick to blame Russia, they are ignoring the fact that there are two sides to this war and to be perfectly blunt I hold Russia in higher trust than I would Ukraine any day. I do have right wing political views if that helps and I do not trust Ukraine.

[fishtaco]

Exacty. This info comes from an article in The Age this morning:

 

66 other carriers flew hundreds of times in the area where MH17 was shot down in the last week. Malaysia flew there 48 times and SIA 75 times. The flight-tracking service also published an image showing an SIA flight from Copenhagen to Singapore was about 25 kilometres (15 miles) from MH17 when the Malaysian jet was brought down.

Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/world/singapore-airlines-apologises-for-insensitive-facebook-posts-after-mh17-shot-down-20140720-zux9q.html#ixzz37wpE46Fv

 

So you cannot blame Malaysia Airlines or say you won't use them because they flew this route when countless other airlines were doing the same.

 

Have you seen the most recent and there are many MH17 flight paths pre this one that are now show as being at least 300 miles south with many more than 300 miles south of the tragedy and none this far North?

 

Personally I do not and never will blame Malaysian Airlines or their pilots for either loss!

 

They were given a safe route that was not safe! Why was it not safe even for a airliner at that height? because surface to air missiles with the capability of well above airline maximum height were reported and shown to have been captured from Ukrainian forces way before this tragedy.

[fishtaco]

NO aircraft had been shot down at that height, and it was deemed safe by the relevant authorities, and the flight path was consistent with regular variability. They all vary north and south based on traffic and winds.

 

That path has been used heavily for years, as it is over other trouble spots in the past e.g. Bosnia, Afghanistan, the middle East.

 

The issue is of course why terrorists are targeting aircraft with very long range weaponry.

 

You believe this when you must now be aware that captured Russian made Ukrainian surface to air missiles with a height range of well beyond an airliners maximum height limit was common knowledge to all relevant authorities where other troubled spots you mention this weaponry is not and was not available to separatist/terrorist groups!

[KarateMan]

You believe this when you must now be aware that captured Russian made Ukrainian surface to air missiles with a height range of well beyond an airliners maximum height limit was common knowledge to all relevant authorities where other troubled spots you mention this weaponry is not and was not available to separatist/terrorist groups!

 

Sadly it is common knowledge in all intelligence agencies world wide that no weapons of war are secure in that area of the world. It is a well known fact that terrorists have access to missiles that can shoot down airliners at that height.

 

If you have enough money in that part of the world you can buy anything you want. Money talks.

 

Even in Russia now millionaires can buy their own space station flights or jet fighter joy rides.

[The_Big_M]

I find it extremely difficult to fully blame Russia for this. Putting it delicately I think both sides in this conflict are just as bad as each other

 

I find that view hard to justify. One side is the country itself. And the other side is the country that has invaded, occupied, and supports the insurgency.

 

So, if some ethnic group e.g. Greeks in Melbourne or Chinese in Sydney decided they wanted to split off from some Australia, and then they did so in part, and the Greece or Chinese government supported their further efforts, you believe that is entirely fine.