Does RCI WANT to sail with empty cabins?

[TravelerThom]

Once again RCI is making a liar out of me. I have posted previously on CruiseCritic that Trans-Atlantic cruises sellout almost completely because cruise lines are willing to drop the fares after Final Payment to a level people cannot pass up. I have seen 17 nights TAs priced as low as from $299 within the last few years, and for someone like me (retired comfortably, but don't squander my money) that gets very enticing even factoring in airfare costs.

 

I purchased the Legend of the Seas (9 Sep 14 out of Oslo to Kritiansand, Lerwick, Torshavn, Reykjavik, St.John's and Cape Liberty) on 2 Aug at $699pp for Cat.Z inside GTY. Not a GREAT price (we did the Liberty of the Seas May TA at $429, and it eventually dropped to $359), but a good price for a North Atlantic repositioning (which typically get a premium over the later more southerly repositionings). One week after I purchased Legend the Cat.Z went to $409 (unconfirmed reports of some getting cheaper than that) and the Cat.Z inventory disappeared almost instantly.

 

Today Legend still has 60 empty cabins (39 outsides, 18 balconies, 3 JS), but rather than attempting to move inventory RCI has raised prices, and no longer even offers the Oslo departure (only offering the Hamburg departure two days earlier). Now I know from CruiseCritic that I can buy a Hamburg departure and with a little paperwork board downstream, but I'm willing to bet that most people who don't frequent CC don't know that. When you price outsides from $2279pp and JS from $4499pp (also listing Cat.K GTY at $1629, even though no insides are currently available) 16 days before Hamburg sailing, it seems like they don't WANT to sell anything. The closer we get to sailing the harder it is to sell a 16 day repositioning cruise, as even retires have to get airfare and get someone to feed the cat.

 

The incremental cost of putting someone in those empty cabins is near zero (when I talked with an F&B manager about low incremental cost to fill empty cabins, he said that it was more like zero as the food is already purchased and being shipped by this late date). In my world some ticket revenue beats NO revenue, NO potential on-board sales and the staff losing $23,000 in gratuities. This all makes no sense to me; am I missing something?:confused:

 

Thom

[delirious9876]

Once again RCI is making a liar out of me. I have posted previously on CruiseCritic that Trans-Atlantic cruises sellout almost completely because cruise lines are willing to drop the fares after Final Payment to a level people cannot pass up. I have seen 17 nights TAs priced as low as from $299 within the last few years, and for someone like me (retired comfortably, but don't squander my money) that gets very enticing even factoring in airfare costs.

 

I purchased the Legend of the Seas (9 Sep 14 out of Oslo to Kritiansand, Lerwick, Torshavn, Reykjavik, St.John's and Cape Liberty) on 2 Aug at $699pp for Cat.Z inside GTY. Not a GREAT price (we did the Liberty of the Seas May TA at $429, and it eventually dropped to $359), but a good price for a North Atlantic repositioning (which typically get a premium over the later more southerly repositionings). One week after I purchased Legend the Cat.Z went to $409 (unconfirmed reports of some getting cheaper than that) and the Cat.Z inventory disappeared almost instantly.

 

Today Legend still has 60 empty cabins (39 outsides, 18 balconies, 3 JS), but rather than attempting to move inventory RCI has raised prices, and no longer even offers the Oslo departure (only offering the Hamburg departure two days earlier). Now I know from CruiseCritic that I can buy a Hamburg departure and with a little paperwork board downstream, but I'm willing to bet that most people who don't frequent CC don't know that. When you price outsides from $2279pp and JS from $4499pp (also listing Cat.K GTY at $1629, even though no insides are currently available) 16 days before Hamburg sailing, it seems like they don't WANT to sell anything. The closer we get to sailing the harder it is to sell a 16 day repositioning cruise, as even retires have to get airfare and get someone to feed the cat.

 

The incremental cost of putting someone in those empty cabins is near zero (when I talked with an F&B manager about low incremental cost to fill empty cabins, he said that it was more like zero as the food is already purchased and being shipped by this late date). In my world some ticket revenue beats NO revenue, NO potential on-board sales and the staff losing $23,000 in gratuities. This all makes no sense to me; am I missing something?:confused:

 

Thom

You're not missing anything. RCCL and their pricing seems all over the place with no rhyme nor reason.

 

It's hard to work work out what they're doing, who they're targeting etc. apart from getting the feeling that they're really really annoying loyal long time RCCL cruisers.

[leisuretraveler223]

All interesting points. But really all kind of moot. After all, I have no doubt RCI has reasons for what it does. For some reason, they have decided not to drop those rates. Really kind of a waste of time and energy pondering why.

 

Personally, I try not to waste my time on things I can't control...

[TOMCAT22]

A lot of the time the cruise ships use TA's to do cabin maintenance and it may be that a lot of these cabins are blocked off so they can have work done on them.

 

3 Junior suites may be getting kept for bingo prizes or casino player upgrades.Just my thoughts.

[delirious9876]

All interesting points. But really all kind of moot. After all, I have no doubt RCI has reasons for what it does. For some reason, they have decided not to drop those rates. Really kind of a waste of time and energy pondering why.

 

Personally, I try not to waste my time on things I can't control...

It may not be something you want to waste your time and energy on, but obviously we do and we don't feel it is a moot point or waste of time.

 

This board is about sharing feelings, comments, observations and a range of views.

[leisuretraveler223]

It may not be something you want to waste your time and energy on, but obviously we do and we don't feel it is a moot point or waste of time.

 

This board is about sharing feelings, comments, observations and a range of views.

 

Sorry, it's early. Maybe that didn't come out right. All I meant was that we can speculate and lament all day long, but I'm sure there actually is a reason why they have things priced where they do. I believe our collective knowledge about how and why they price things is a mere drop in the bucket compared to the data and planning the marketing and sales department has at their disposal.

[delirious9876]

Sorry, it's early. Maybe that didn't come out right. All I meant was that we can speculate and lament all day long, but I'm sure there actually is a reason why they have things priced where they do. I believe our collective knowledge about how and why they price things is a mere drop in the bucket compared to the data and planning the marketing and sales department has at their disposal.

Thanks. I agree :-)

[TravelerThom]

A lot of the time the cruise ships use TA's to do cabin maintenance and it may be that a lot of these cabins are blocked off so they can have work done on them.

 

3 Junior suites may be getting kept for bingo prizes or casino player upgrades.Just my thoughts.

Good points. RCI almost always makes much more on the Suite Bingo than they would actually selling the JS, but I THINK (don't know) that suite is "booked" by the Revenue Department and doesn't show on the inventory. The ten or so TAs I have been on have been virtually sold out, but whether intentional empty or not unoccupied cabins would be candidates for maintenance work. Empty cabins are surely easier to work in, but my sister went to lunch on Explorer of the Seas and returned to find new carpet installation being completed in her cabin:eek: (and she had not noted any significant defects in the old carpet).

 

Thom

[gkny]

My ticket price a year ago on the upcoming ta on the Oasis was for $1400 for an inside. Now it's $769 for the same category and I called and received a credit. Even though it's almost half the price I'm sure that they'll still make plenty of money.

[alfaeric]

So the real question now, what to do about this information...

 

 

hmm...

[kwazi07]

I have seen 17 nights TAs priced as low as from $299 within the last few years,

 

we did the Liberty of the Seas May TA at $429, and it eventually dropped to $359), but a good price for a North Atlantic repositioning (which typically get a premium over the later more southerly repositionings).

 

We have always wanted to do a TA... Those are awesome prices. How do you spot those? Whenever I look on the Royal Caribbean site they always show TAs at $1000+.

[CP3o]

You're not missing anything. RCCL and their pricing seems all over the place with no rhyme nor reason.

 

It's hard to work work out what they're doing, who they're targeting etc. apart from getting the feeling that they're really really annoying loyal long time RCCL cruisers.

 

Perhaps they have done some studies that more pax are holding out looking for the cheap fares and better to sail some empty to break this pattern. Or other studies that show pax that book the super cheap cabins also often don't go spend money in casino, buy drink packages, book specialty restaurants or tip especially well.

 

It also might upset the cruiser who booked early at a higher rate to see the super low fares. It might discourage them from booking early next time or might encourage them to seek out an Early Saver rate on competitor cruiseline to avoid feeling burned by last minute sales. Maybe RCCL would rather keep that pax happy than sell every cabin and make the pax happy that can sail last minute. Their ships, they can make the rules.

[Clarea]

We have always wanted to do a TA... Those are awesome prices. How do you spot those? Whenever I look on the Royal Caribbean site they always show TAs at $1000+.

Keep watching the weekly sale:

 

http://www.creative.rccl.com/sales/royal/Multi_Dest/Special_Offers/rci_sales_event.pdf

[akcruz]

Could there be a lot of folks with unassigned guarantees? Maybe they are looking to see if they can fill a few of those last cabins at a higher rate before moving everyone up?

 

Who knows why Royal does what they do with prices. You book at a price you are happy with. More and more companies I think are finding ways to get around the deal finders :(, especially when people post on message boards about ways to get around the rules/pricing, etc!

[Biker19]

Keep watching the weekly sale:

 

http://www.creative.rccl.com/sales/royal/Multi_Dest/Special_Offers/rci_sales_event.pdf

 

Sometimes by the time it shows up on the weekly sale it is too late - it certainly was for the Legend. RCI hit the panic sale button ($359 Z GTY rate) on the Brilliance at the same time (two weeks ago) which has a similar itinerary a week before the Legend.

 

One has to be diligent, check prices daily and be ready to jump at a good deal.

[John&LaLa]

Perhaps they have done some studies that more pax are holding out looking for the cheap fares and better to sail some empty to break this pattern. Or other studies that show pax that book the super cheap cabins also often don't go spend money in casino, buy drink packages, book specialty restaurants or tip especially well.

 

It also might upset the cruiser who booked early at a higher rate to see the super low fares. It might discourage them from booking early next time or might encourage them to seek out an Early Saver rate on competitor cruiseline to avoid feeling burned by last minute sales. Maybe RCCL would rather keep that pax happy than sell every cabin and make the pax happy that can sail last minute. Their ships, they can make the rules.

 

 

 

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[InsideCruiser]

Could there be a lot of folks with unassigned guarantees? Maybe they are looking to see if they can fill a few of those last cabins at a higher rate before moving everyone up?

 

Interesting point, the inventory actually available could be considerably lower than the inventory showing.

[Ba' Datz]

We have always wanted to do a TA... Those are awesome prices. How do you spot those? Whenever I look on the Royal Caribbean site they always show TAs at $1000+.

 

 

The Nov 2 14 night TA on the Adventure has rooms starting at $524

 

Availability changes constantly during the day from K to Q and back

[TravelerThom]

We have always wanted to do a TA... Those are awesome prices. How do you spot those? Whenever I look on the Royal Caribbean site they always show TAs at $1000+.

I often book after Final Payment when RCI starts unloading excess cabins. The Liberty May 2014 rates kept dropping over the weekend, and would be HIGHER the following week on Going, Going, Gone:confused: I have always been able to still get a Choice Air one way from Washington, DC at under $500. We generally hold out for a TA for about $1000 INCLUDING tips and air. Of course if the cruise is sold out or near sold out there will be no good prices; you have to be willing to say "maybe next time". You also have to willing to take a GTY cabin.

 

Thom

[wvufan]

Within the last year it seems that there have been a lot of crazy pricing and fluctuations on both RCL and Celebrity. I am not a computer person, but my suspicion is that the geeks that be have set up parameters which dictate prices and adjustments. I think the problem is that they have programmed those parameters unrealistically and the result has been some price chaos.

 

Common sense doesn't have a chance.

 

Hi Thom :)

 

Happy Sails to You

 

OOOEEE :D:D Bob and Phyl

[TravelerThom]

Could there be a lot of folks with unassigned guarantees? Maybe they are looking to see if they can fill a few of those last cabins at a higher rate before moving everyone up?...

Possible, but I don't think so. I know a number of people who had GTYs (including several in at $409) and all of them have been assigned cabins. Obviously I don't know everyone who got a GTY.

 

Thom

[Biker19]

Interesting point, the inventory actually available could be considerably lower than the inventory showing.

 

Doubt it -after the panic sale with the Z rate, all of the OV cabins (40+) were shown unavailable. Once they made most of the assignments (including mine) all of the OV cabins became available again. If they still had assignments to be made they would not have made those available. At this point they are still selling a K GTY cabin, so even all the insides might not be filled.

 

The inventory and pricing for this sailing has been weird. For months there were no OV cabins to be had and then around final payment time about 40+ show up. Since then, less than a handful have been assigned - I assume due to the high prices. Virtually no balconies have been assigned in several weeks - no wonder at $3500+pp. Same with the JSs.

 

The other peculiarity is the range in pricing - from $1300 for an inside to $4500 for a JS. Usually there's less of a spread. Anyway, someone at RCI is setting these prices for some reason.

[dancinman66]

Problem is it is a self defeating prophecy of reducing final prices in last weeks

 

Good business days to hold a mini price regardless or people like yourself wait for those rather than buy early

Means they don't sell early

 

If they keep the price point at a certain minimum level then overall income on the trip ends up more

 

Initially will have more empty cabins but regularly selling at stupid prices is not good business as those numbers of cabins at those prices will grow as more learn the bargain hunt trip like you have

 

 

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[cruisnseas]

This is a fairly simple business concept. They are creating value. The company I work for does the same thing. We have certain products that we will not discount right now. It doesn't matter if we are selling 0 of those products and someone would buy 100 if only we give them a 5% discount. We won't do it, because we are creating value and if we discount it that would mean we value the product at a lower level.

 

In addition, Royal has an entire team that uses complex models to determine overall revenue if price is X versus if price is Y. If overall revenue of price X is higher than Y even if Y would sell more rooms, they will price at X. Even with rooms available, they could be at or near 100% occupancy with triple and quad rooms.

Edited August 21, 2014 by cruisnseas

[The_Big_M]

Sorry, it's early. Maybe that didn't come out right. All I meant was that we can speculate and lament all day long, but I'm sure there actually is a reason why they have things priced where they do. I believe our collective knowledge about how and why they price things is a mere drop in the bucket compared to the data and planning the marketing and sales department has at their disposal.

 

Spot on. Fully agree with this.

 

Certainly, mistakes happen, but I don't believe there's a laissez faire approach to having empty cabins. Yield management is a heavily emphasised and focussed area in multiple travel industries, and given RCL group's focus on cost control, I can't believe they'd be so lax in general on pricing.