Policy on E-cigs

[Karma5]

Last APRIL I was on Jewel and someone was smoking a e-cigarette in one of the lounges.

I brought it to the attention of one of the bar attendants and he told me it was "all right".

 

Needless to say I just left the area because I knew he was wrong and I did not want to start an argument. Next time I cruise I will bring a copy of RC's onboard policies with me that clearly states e-cigs are classified the same as cigarettes ……….

[jstraw20]

e-cigs mow a health hazard in California ( and 4 other states) because of the formaldehyde and 9 other cancer causing chemicals they produce.

 

Please list those 9 other chemicals and cite the source for this information. Thanks.

[ahecht]

Please list those 9 other chemicals and cite the source for this information. Thanks.

 

http://cdph.ca.gov/programs/tobacco/Documents/Media/State%20Health-e-cig%20report.pdf

 

While e-cigarettes pollute the air less than traditional cigarettes, contrary to popular belief, e-cigarettes do not emit a harmless water vapor, but a concoction of chemicals toxic to human cells in the form of an aerosol. Vapors are purely gases, whereas aerosols also contain particulate matter.5

 

Although several studies have found lower levels of carcinogens in e-cigarette aerosol compared to smoke emitted by traditional cigarettes, the mainstream and secondhand e-cigarette aerosol has been found to contain at least ten chemicals that are on California’s list of chemicals known to cause cancer, birth defects, or other reproductive harm, including acetaldehyde, benzene, cadmium, formaldehyde, isoprene, lead, nickel, nicotine, N nitrosonornicotine, and toluene.1-3, 27 There is also evidence that e-cigarette aerosol contains propylene glycol and higher levels of other toxicants including heavy metals (tin, nickel) and silicate nanoparticles than are present in traditional cigarettes.3

 

The specific studies that led to those claims are cited at the end of the pdf report.

Edited January 29, 2015 by ahecht

[slinkythecat]

Last APRIL I was on Jewel and someone was smoking a e-cigarette in one of the lounges.

I brought it to the attention of one of the bar attendants and he told me it was "all right".

 

Needless to say I just left the area because I knew he was wrong and I did not want to start an argument. Next time I cruise I will bring a copy of RC's onboard policies with me that clearly states e-cigs are classified the same as cigarettes ……….

Wow some people really have to get a life and stop complaining about everything. The last thing I would think of when packing for a cruise is making a copy of rules.

[mark290]

Wow some people really have to get a life and stop complaining about everything. The last thing I would think of when packing for a cruise is making a copy of rules.

 

In the post you quote I only see a complaint about one thing.

[itching2cruiseagain]

There is all kinds of research on e-cigs and vapes.

Check these out too:

http://ecigarette-research.com/web/

People worry about Propylene glycol, and I believe it is used in asthma inhalers.:

Propylene glycol is used as a solvent in many pharmaceuticals, including oral, injectable and topical formulations.

from: http://www.drugs.com/inactive/propylene-glycol-270.html

[LoveyHowell]

If anyone is daft enough to believe E-Smoking is as harmless as breathing air I have a bridge to sell you. Man, the addicts will say ANYTHING to justify them doing what THEY want, rules be damned, consideration for others be damned. Go ahead, continue to light up your chemical cocktail and inhale it; you weren't even allowed to smoke cigarettes indoors and all these E-Smoking addicts can't sit in a restaurant or movie without hitting the pipe every 10 seconds. But it's totally harmless...:rolleyes::rolleyes:

[jstraw20]

If anyone is daft enough to believe E-Smoking is as harmless as breathing air I have a bridge to sell you. Man, the addicts will say ANYTHING to justify them doing what THEY want, rules be damned, consideration for others be damned. Go ahead, continue to light up your chemical cocktail and inhale it; you weren't even allowed to smoke cigarettes indoors and all these E-Smoking addicts can't sit in a restaurant or movie without hitting the pipe every 10 seconds. But it's totally harmless...:rolleyes::rolleyes:

 

 

Please cite a single participant in this thread that has claimed that vaping is "as harmless as breathing air".

[rvmike]

ahecht, Thanks for the link

[jstraw20]

http://cdph.ca.gov/programs/tobacco/Documents/Media/State%20Health-e-cig%20report.pdf

The specific studies that led to those claims are cited at the end of the pdf report.

 

Thanks.

 

In my opinion the Grana/Glantz "study" (ref 1) is nothing more than an opinion piece, there is no new science presented, it simply plucks data from prior studies and presents an opinion based on them. It's a long read but there truthfully isn't anything new in there, just cherry picked data points lifted from other studies. Just my opinion though...

 

The other studies cited are more interesting...

 

It's strange that the Goniewicz study was cited (ref 2) since the results and conclusions were as follows:

 

Results We found that the e-cigarette vapours contained some toxic substances. The levels of the toxicants were 9–450 times lower than in cigarette smoke and were, in many cases, comparable with trace amounts found in the reference product.

 

Conclusions Our findings are consistent with the idea that substituting tobacco cigarettes with e-cigarettes may substantially reduce exposure to selected tobacco-specific toxicants. E-cigarettes as a harm reduction strategy among smokers unwilling to quit, warrants further study.

 

Not nearly as frightening when put in the scientist's own words.

 

 

 

The Williams study (ref 3) was another study of other studies, and it concluded that there was too much inconsistency in the methodology of the individual studies to be conclusive:

 

" few of these methods are well validated. In addition, e-cigarette use behaviours have only been taken into account for aerosol generation in two publications. Therefore, additional studies based on scientifically validated aerosol generation methods, aerosol physical property measurement methods and chemical analysis methods would be helpful in generating reliable estimates of chemical quantities and, thus, the toxic potential of e-cigarettes. "

 

The Schripp study (ref 27) was to determine if there was such a thing as "second hand vapor". The conclusion was technically yes, but the levels of detectable compounds were so low that it lead Schripp to state:

 

"However, with regard to a health related evaluation of e-cigarette consumption, the impact of vapor inhalation into the human lung should be of primary concern.”

 

So in reality, 3 of the 4 studies cited actually came down on the side of further study, not a cry for a "legal remedy".

 

I just want to make clear that I am *not* calling e-cigs completely safe, no honest user of them would. The jury is out in terms of safety to the users themselves, but the science is clearly pointing in the direction of "second hand vape" (what there is of it) posing little to no risk to others as compounds in it are at or below the baseline levels found in typical room air.

 

I'm also not advocating for RCCL to give vapers the "right" to vape anywhere. It's their business and they have every right to set their policies as they see fit. That said it would be nice if there were a place to vape that is separate from the smokers.

[wingatesl]

Uummmm.... no, I answered your question. Don't believe it one bit. I bet many noticed. I see it and smell it. You aren't so suave that people don't see it. They just don't want to ruin their vacation by making a scene by asking management to have people follow the rules.

 

And I am telling you that I know for a fact it can be done right next to you and you would not know. If you didnt see the vapor and I was just lifting a beer to my mouth are you going to be so crazy as to ask me to show you my hands? It is quite easy to use the device and produce no vapor, and no scent.

 

Right next to you and you would have no clue. ask anyone about stealth vaping.

[LetsGetWet!]

Please cite a single participant in this thread that has claimed that vaping is "as harmless as breathing air".

Here's one that's pretty close:

Yes, tobacco rules does apply for E-cigs which to us shows a bit of ignorance on the part of RCCL. Understanding what you see is water vapor that has no carbon monoxide or dioxide...

It's a whole lot more than water vapor...

[wingatesl]

Here's one that's pretty close:

 

It's a whole lot more than water vapor...

 

 

So is the air around you

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[jstraw20]

Here's one that's pretty close:

 

It's a whole lot more than water vapor...

 

Well... yes and no. Specifically, it actually is mostly water vapor, over 99% of what is exhaled. There are other elements there, but so far scientists have not been able to come up with an accurate assessment of what these compounds are (excluding nicotine) because the amounts are so small that the data is being skewed due to lab contamination.

 

That said, the question I posed was to find a poster that claims vaping is 100% safe, which no honest vaper will say. What we will say is that we are beyond certain that we are doing far less damage to ourselves by vaping instead of smoking. In terms of second hand risk, especially when compared to second hand cigarette smoke and exposure, the science is clearer with each study: exposure to second hand vapor is the least of your worries.

[twindaddy]

Well... yes and no. Specifically, it actually is mostly water vapor, over 99% of what is exhaled. There are other elements there, but so far scientists have not been able to come up with an accurate assessment of what these compounds are (excluding nicotine) because the amounts are so small that the data is being skewed due to lab contamination.

 

That said, the question I posed was to find a poster that claims vaping is 100% safe, which no honest vaper will say. What we will say is that we are beyond certain that we are doing far less damage to ourselves by vaping instead of smoking. In terms of second hand risk, especially when compared to second hand cigarette smoke and exposure, the science is clearer with each study: exposure to second hand vapor is the least of your worries.

 

So because vaping is safer than some other activity (smoking), it is some how OK

 

Not sure about that logic.

 

Here is another fun fact: Urine is 95 percent water, so can we talk about me peeing next to you while you are enjoying a show? Nevermind those sprinklets, ITS WATER!

 

In all seriousness, I have nothing but respect for those who are trying to quite smoking. But until there is FAR more study, I see no reason to allow vaping in any area where cigarettes are also not allowed.

[jstraw20]

So because vaping is safer than some other activity (smoking), it is some how OK

 

Not sure about that logic.

 

Here is another fun fact: Urine is 95 percent water, so can we talk about me peeing next to you while you are enjoying a show? Nevermind those sprinklets, ITS WATER!

 

In all seriousness, I have nothing but respect for those who are trying to quite smoking. But until there is FAR more study, I see no reason to allow vaping in any area where cigarettes are also not allowed.

 

Once again, I don't think anyone who vapes is lobbying for that. If there is any lobby at all, we're asking for an area to vape where we do not have to be exposed to cigarette smoke. After all, we are truthfully non smokers.

 

And seriously, except for a few kinky devils nobody wants to be pi**ed on ;)

 

But yes, for us vaping *is* safer than smoking and it's looking really good that it's safer for non smokers/vapers too. It's a win/win.

[slyster]

My partner went from smoking cigarettes to using e-cigarettes...I guess that's what they call vaping? I know it does smell. Some days I don't smell it but other days it's pretty strong for some reason, especially in the car or if she's been smoking for a while in a room. It almost smells like a cigarette, but just a little bit different.

[Mapleleafforever]

On Oasis last week we saw them pretty much everywhere (central park, royal promenade, pool deck, etc) and they didn't bother us one bit.

[LMaxwell]

In terms of second hand risk, especially when compared to second hand cigarette smoke and exposure, the science is clearer with each study: exposure to second hand vapor is the least of your worries.

 

Were these studies done by the FDA?

 

Is second hand vaping byproduct less safe or as safe as not breathing in second hand byproduct?

[LMaxwell]

If there is any lobby at all, we're asking for an area to vape where we do not have to be exposed to cigarette smoke. After all, we are truthfully non smokers.

 

 

I'd agree with that; so why do people think it is acceptable to vape in public places where smoking isn't allowed? I mean, I understand vaping is not a cigarette, but until there is clear determination as to what it is, why should I have to sit next to someone at a restaurant, show, or other enclosed public space and put up with it? Yes, vapers should have their own areas.

 

I was standing in line at Publix (grocery store) and someone had a vape pen tethered to their neck and the guy took a massive hit and blew it all around. How is that appropriate or acceptable? SOME people are reasonable like you. Others are totally unreasonable and think because it's not a cigarette that they have carte blanche to vape where ever they please.

 

I have yet to meet anyone that was a non-smoker and decided to take up vaping either. Deduce from that what you will.

[jstraw20]

Were these studies done by the FDA?

 

Is second hand vaping byproduct less safe or as safe as not breathing in second hand byproduct?

 

The study cited in the pdf was done by the NIH. The results were inconclusive.

[Mikew0805]

This is a no win situation. I mean you cant talk to anyone who thinks they know everything and there are lot of those people in this forum. Instead of doing some research. Most of the people replying to this thread are just like the Media. Jumping on the bandwagon. Surprise, surprise, surprise! Sheep,,,follow the leader and I cant think for myself. Its a shame.

 

Speaking of research, since you brought it up. Once addicted to nicotine, the choice is no longer such a clear cut choice.

 

Physiologically.. what the brain wants, the brain gets.. through many forms of manipulation. Addiction, is not a choice. This is why so many fail when they try to quit. It takes an extreme amount of determination to attempt to quit... fail... then try again... and fail again. However, for most that are addicted, this is the process that will lead to success.

 

There are anomalies, like those that just put them down one day and never pick them up again. We know there is some chemical reaction that is occurring, as this is not a normal process to remove a chemical addiction from the brain. (which is why it is less than 1% of those who actually quit, and never pick them up again.)

 

It really is nice to think that we as people have complete free choice. We don't and no it does not matter how many small minded people get together to say that we do... it does not change the fact, that we do not.

[tiessa]

Last week I saw a man vaping openly in the Windjammer and nothing was said to him. His wasn't shaped like a cigarette so my guess is no one knew what it was and so didn't complain.

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Forums

[ellie1145]

This thread concerns me for more than one reason, but the most worrying is all the people encouraging the 'vapers' to 'vape' wherever and whenever they want as 'nobody will notice' and RCI will do nothing about it!

 

According to their rules, vaping IS banned in any inside area where smoking is banned, it is also banned on balconies. RCI SHOULD take their rules seriously otherwise why have them? However, there are, sadly, those who use e- cigs who seem to think they know better, and because of their new addiction to vaping believe that it is ok to ignore the rules and smoke them everywhere - even in the Winjammer and the Dining Room! How is that reasonable?

 

The core of the problem seems to be not that e- cigarettes are banned but that 'vapers' choose to ignore that ban, presumably because their addiction to them means they cannot spend any length of time without inhaling the nicotine they provide.

 

Having suffered from smokers fumes for years, and never having booked a balcony for fear of being unable to use it we now, apparently, have no choice but to be 'vaped' over everywhere on the ship! Yes, I know there are those who vociferously say its safe and won't harm me, but why should my freedom of choice be taken away from me? I choose not to smoke, and I choose not to use an e-cigarette, but despite RCI protecting me from both by banning the use of both in public and private areas, some vapers seem to think they are above the law.

 

I strongly feel that special areas should be set aside so those who are using e-cigarettes can do so without inhaling the toxic fumes of smokers. That seems a reasonable way forward. But please, please don't 'vape' over me!

 

There are lots of things you can do without being caught - I am sure that shop lifters would say its easy to steal things from shops, but we don't all go around thieving. Just because you can use an e-cigarette without being challenged does not make it right!

 

Thank you, all those e-cigarette users who abide by the rules. I commend you for your thoughtfulness. But it saddens me that there are those who encourage the use of e-cigarettes where they are banned.

 

I commend all of you who have managed to move away from the addiction of smoking and who have found e-cigarettes helpful. They are obviously safer for you.

 

But isn't it strange that the same tobacco companies who produced highly addictive cigarettes are now producing e-cigarettes? They want to ensure that smoking in all its forms continues, and I am sure they want e-cigarettes to be as addictive as their cigarettes, otherwise they are going to lose a lot of money.

Edited February 3, 2015 by ellie1145

[wally_bushy]

I normally avoid these threads as it is one group v another group.

When people justify something as acceptable I find it useful to apply a simple test.

Would you like your child/grandchild to smoke (normal or vaping).

The answer should be no.

Then ask why and the answer is why so many of us detest them