Casino can, will and did change winning odds on slot machine.

[triple7tahoe]

If you had told me prior to my last cruise (#100 for me) I would have told you that it is not possible for the casino to change the slot odds. Hence I would have argued with those of you that said "play the slots early in the cruise as they throw a switch and change the odds later". I can now say that they can and did on my last cruise. I own about 15 antique slot machines and do have an idea of how they work. With the newer computer run machines using a RNG I was not sure. Anyhow, as the cruise started, I found a $1 machine and started playing. Over the first couple of days I was having "fantastic" luck, hitting 6 or 7 combinations that paid over $500 each. Never the bigger jackpots which were in the $2K to 6K range. My system is to set a high and low point for myself for each session. i.e. If I get ahead $300 or lose $300 I will quit for the day. All was going along very well until the 4th or 5th day when I hit a $720 pay out and within 5 minutes hit another $720. At this point the machine locked up. as they will do when a "hand pay" is required. My total credit at that time should have been around $1500. The machine showed $782 and was told by the Casino manager that since the total was over $1200 it had to be a hand pay. OK-I understand that for tax purposes so was not concerned as I have gone through that process a few times. Now casino management and host came out with cameras and started taking pictures of the machine. Next came the host with some form of instruction sheet and they started working on the machine. I know that it is possible with computer machines it is possible to go back and trace the payout records of a particular machine as well as checking to see if the player might have found a way to "cheat". After 25-30 minutes of much button pushing and number checking they put the machine back into play. OK in 5 days I had hit about 10-15 pays of over $200 each and never reaching my "low", quit for the day. Each session I was able to hit my "high and quit. From that point on (next 6 days) I played around $30K through the machine and my I had only one payout of over $100. No, I did not lose $30K but I easily put all of the previous winning back and then some. On the last day I asked the casino host about having had to fix the machine and his only action was to point to the sign that said "Machine malfunction cancels all pays and plays" and smile.

They may not be able to just throw a switch but they can (AND DO) change the odds.

[Coveguy4]

I've also hit jackpots at the beginning of a cruise, not past the middle of one But the casinos are designed to make money for the cruise lines, so if I am lucky enough to come out ahead at the end of the cruise its great. I consider it entertainment and don't expect to always beat the odds. ( But it's wonderful to get those hand pays.....lol)

[richstowe]

I am sorry you didn't "get while the getting was good " with your winnings. I have no doubt that the

payout % is not fixed and can be altered with slot machines but wasn't sure it could be done on board.

Regardless, I stick with blackjack on the believe that all casino games favor the house

but blackjack least of all . In other words I prefer to lose as slowly as possible .;)

Edited December 21, 2014 by richstowe

[AKman2495]

With the new computerized machines, the casino can change the odds whenever they want. While they do not go crazy (like changing them every 15 minutes) they watch the payouts and how much they are making very carefully.

 

The slots can be loose at the start of the cruise to get people playing the machines-winners always draw crowds and other players. Peter, as the cruise nears the end, they can crank them down and "recover" some of the payouts.

 

I was on a 2 week B2B on the crown and it was spotty, I made some, but never any big payouts. Near the end of the cruise I decided to play a dollar slot "wheel of fortune" I had seen people pay it, but noting came of it. Anyway, I played t and hit 6 payouts in a row-over $400. Then, it started to give back so I pulled out over $350.

 

And so it goes....

[caribill]

Even with the old mechanical one-armed bandits in Las Vagas casinos could alter the payouts. It is no surprise that it is done with today's current machines.

[shredie]

That's why they call it gambling.

[smslms]

It absolutely mystifies me why people are surprised to find out that a computer can be programmed. :eek:

[richstowe]

That's why they call it gambling.

Casinos never call it gambling . They call it gaming and they never lose.

[Loonbeam]

In most cases they do not change the odds of a single machine. The machines are set up in banks (can be a few machines, can be casino wide, not sure how Princess configures them). Those banks are set to a payout percentage. In the US, other than on some indian casinos, the amount is 'floored', meaning the machines must pay out 95 percent overall or higher (95 is the lowest I know of).

 

Of course, even at 95 percent payout, if one machine in a bank pays out $500, all the others in that bank can take in $10,000 without having to pay a dime. it's not quite that simple in practice, but a fair illustration.

 

The lower the payout percentage, the less likely a jackpot, as the machines are also programmed to pay small wins every so often (the Pavlov effect in practice). As far as I know, cruise ships casinos are pretty much unregulated, unless by the Bahamas or wherever they are chartered. So theoretically they can set the payout at 80 percent or lower.

 

Drawn card games are harder to adjust as you have to change the rules, but on blackjack, Princess has every one in place that favors the house (3-2 blackjack, hit on soft 17, continuous shuffle machines, side games), so even then your odds are probably worse than vegas. Craps and roulette are your best 'bets' on a ship as it were,other than adjusting payout, very hard to manipulate. (If you are wondering, continuous shufflers don't change the odds as much, but they do increase hands per hour, which has an effect when the house has favor).

[caribill]

In most cases they do not change the odds of a single machine. The machines are set up in banks (can be a few machines, can be casino wide, not sure how Princess configures them). Those banks are set to a payout percentage. In the US, other than on some indian casinos, the amount is 'floored', meaning the machines must pay out 95 percent overall or higher (95 is the lowest I know of).

 

 

Of course once at sea, which is the only time the ship's casino is open, any rules that mandate a 95% payout no longer apply.

[cb at sea]

A ship's casino is NOT Vegas...where they have actual gambling rules/laws....

[KruzeKrazy!]

I am an executive in Las Vegas in the casino industry and I'll simply say there is MUCH misinformation and ill-founded commentary regarding slots and payouts/hold percentages. And the overwhelming majority of what people believe/communicate is NOT correct and in actuality favors the casinos much less than people think.

[bhopal21]

We're impressed!

 

Mike;)

[azbirdmom]

Although most casinos in Nevada pay out significantly more, I believe the legal minimum payout there is something like 75%. Casinos at sea are unregulated and it doesn't surprise me that the payouts can be manipulated more than in US casinos. I play at sea as I enjoy the entertainment, but I do carefully watch my bankroll and stop playing when the machines are just taking and not giving anything at all back.

Edited December 22, 2014 by azbirdmom

[Loonbeam]

See paragraph 3 of my response. They could actually go much lower than that, but at a certain point people get discouraged and stop playing at all, so its self defeating.

 

Of course once at sea, which is the only time the ship's casino is open, any rules that mandate a 95% payout no longer apply.

[Loonbeam]

Although the floor is lower than I thought my numbers were not far off. Here's 2013/2014 payouts from the Nevada Gaming Commission:

 

All Slot Machines

The Strip - 92.50%

Downtown - 93.36%

Boulder Strip - 93.75%

N. Las Vegas - 93.77%

 

I've decompiled the code from older slot machines, so I am pretty confident in how it used to work, freely admitting things may have changed as tech advanced, but I doubt that much, industries don't shift that way.

 

 

I am an executive in Las Vegas in the casino industry and I'll simply say there is MUCH misinformation and ill-founded commentary regarding slots and payouts/hold percentages. And the overwhelming majority of what people believe/communicate is NOT correct and in actuality favors the casinos much less than people think.

[Colo Cruiser]

That's why they call it gambling.

 

Evil minds think alike! :D

[MTJSR]

I owned an IGT Triple Triple Diamond slot machine and purchased the "RNG" that the Nevada Gaming Commission placed on the mother board, at delivery time to the original leasing Casino. The RNG (random number generator) is a pre-programmed chip (brain) placed and then safety sealed to the board (no tamper seal) to prevent removal. The odds in Nevada are of course set by the Casino Slot Manager and the Gaming Commission by state law guidelines. Typically a small percent to the house only.

 

At sea, how could a low paid, long hour working and un-policed (per se') person be given control to make such a potentially lethal public relations decision, in this entertainment/cruise industry?

 

Its just not going to happen!

 

Please Google the numerical science behind the "RNG", computer slot operations and plain old luck.

 

 

 

.

Edited December 22, 2014 by MTJSR

[caribill]

At sea, how can a low paid, long hour working and uncontrolled (per se') person be given control to make such a potentially lethal public relations decision in the entertainment/cruise industry?

 

 

 

 

 

Are you saying that the on board Casino Manager is low-paid?

[KruzeKrazy!]

Loonbeam -

 

The right source for the areas you reference (locals casinos, Reno, etc. will be lower hold) but floorwide averages are far from the whole story. Hold %s will vary widely by denom, each machine within denom, casino, etc. - even within the geographic areas you reference.

 

Thanks, though, for providing others with sone tangible info.

[Daniel1313]

If you had told me prior to my last cruise (#100 for me) I would have told you that it is not possible for the casino to change the slot odds. Hence I would have argued with those of you that said "play the slots early in the cruise as they throw a switch and change the odds later". I can now say that they can and did on my last cruise. I own about 15 antique slot machines and do have an idea of how they work. With the newer computer run machines using a RNG I was not sure. Anyhow, as the cruise started, I found a $1 machine and started playing. Over the first couple of days I was having "fantastic" luck, hitting 6 or 7 combinations that paid over $500 each. Never the bigger jackpots which were in the $2K to 6K range. My system is to set a high and low point for myself for each session. i.e. If I get ahead $300 or lose $300 I will quit for the day. All was going along very well until the 4th or 5th day when I hit a $720 pay out and within 5 minutes hit another $720. At this point the machine locked up. as they will do when a "hand pay" is required. My total credit at that time should have been around $1500. The machine showed $782 and was told by the Casino manager that since the total was over $1200 it had to be a hand pay. OK-I understand that for tax purposes so was not concerned as I have gone through that process a few times. Now casino management and host came out with cameras and started taking pictures of the machine. Next came the host with some form of instruction sheet and they started working on the machine. I know that it is possible with computer machines it is possible to go back and trace the payout records of a particular machine as well as checking to see if the player might have found a way to "cheat". After 25-30 minutes of much button pushing and number checking they put the machine back into play. OK in 5 days I had hit about 10-15 pays of over $200 each and never reaching my "low", quit for the day. Each session I was able to hit my "high and quit. From that point on (next 6 days) I played around $30K through the machine and my I had only one payout of over $100. No, I did not lose $30K but I easily put all of the previous winning back and then some. On the last day I asked the casino host about having had to fix the machine and his only action was to point to the sign that said "Machine malfunction cancels all pays and plays" and smile.

They may not be able to just throw a switch but they can (AND DO) change the odds.

 

Your thread is not the easiest one I have read to follow...

 

You say you quit after either losing or winning $300 in one day. So why did you keep playing after you won $720 if you say you quit winning after you have win $300 for the day??

Edited December 22, 2014 by Daniel1313

[MTJSR]

Are you saying that the on board Casino Manager is low-paid?

 

Well.....are you suggesting its the highest paying position? Consistent with sea life salaries in general, id assume is not high paying.

 

My point however, is no person is going to be allowed to play fast and loose with a screw driver on these slots and change odds in front of a payout, like depicted in the Op's post.

 

 

.

Edited December 22, 2014 by MTJSR

[caribill]

Well.....are you suggesting its the highest paying position? Consistent with sea life salaries in general, id assume is not high paying.

 

 

Cruise Casino Jobs - Casino Manager

 

In charge of the department aboard the cruise ship. Supervising the subordinate casino positions. Creating and maintaining an entertaining gaming environment. Responsible for the training of casino staff. Observation and control over all casino games, slot machines and casino cage in order to minimize security threats and fraud cases. High school diploma is a must. Bachelor’s degree in management, business administration or related field and managerial experience is a plus. Good English. Additional languages. Basic computer software required.

Salary: $2800-3600 per month.

 

 

Plus free room and board. $33600 to $43200 annually is certainly not high.

[MTJSR]

Cruise Casino Jobs - Casino Manager

 

In charge of the department aboard the cruise ship. Supervising the subordinate casino positions. Creating and maintaining an entertaining gaming environment. Responsible for the training of casino staff. Observation and control over all casino games, slot machines and casino cage in order to minimize security threats and fraud cases. High school diploma is a must. Bachelor’s degree in management, business administration or related field and managerial experience is a plus. Good English. Additional languages. Basic computer software required.

Salary: $2800-3600 per month.

 

 

Plus free room and board. $33600 to $43200 annually is certainly not high.

 

 

lol, still not the point! But ok, I'll play along for fun. Sure give all the responsibility to the casino manager to manipulate odds at sea, risk destroying the games integrity right there in real time:eek: All of em are expert computer programmers, genius mad scientists capable of reprogramming a sophisticated mathematical numerical generator. All while smiling at their victims, rubbing hands and laughing hysterically.

 

Nope its just not going to happen, high pay, low pay no way!

Edited December 22, 2014 by MTJSR

[cruzsnooze]

Cruise Casino Jobs - Casino Manager

 

In charge of the department aboard the cruise ship. Supervising the subordinate casino positions. Creating and maintaining an entertaining gaming environment. Responsible for the training of casino staff. Observation and control over all casino games, slot machines and casino cage in order to minimize security threats and fraud cases. High school diploma is a must. Bachelor’s degree in management, business administration or related field and managerial experience is a plus. Good English. Additional languages. Basic computer software required.

Salary: $2800-3600 per month.

 

 

Plus free room and board. $33600 to $43200 annually is certainly not high.

That's a fortune in some countries where they send their money to.