daily service charge

[sparks1093]

I know the terms that I agreed to with NCL and I'll operate within those terms. Anything on Cruise Critic that isn't published by NCL must be regarded as speculation at this point by me. I've determined people either refuse to answer honestly or interject their own opinion as fact more often than not.

 

Except the service charge is not one of the terms you agree to, nor does NCL. They publish what you will pay onboard, but like everything else that is payable onboard the price is subject to change without notice.

[Out to sea!]

Yes you can go to guest services and have it removed no questions asked. I saw a lot of tips on dinner tables when I sailed in Dec. so I think many people remove those auto tips and tip the people that actually serve them.

 

This 100% FALSE. As a minimum one will be asked "Why?" are you removing it. Of course, if one wants to not be asked any other questions to help correct whatever service issue (if they actually have one) they may be having one can simply say "I'm a jerk and therefore I'm removing my DSC" but every person will always be asked a minimum of "why?".

[LMaxwell]

This 100% FALSE. As a minimum one will be asked "Why?" are you removing it. Of course, if one wants to not be asked any other questions to help correct whatever service issue (if they actually have one) they may be having one can simply say "I'm a jerk and therefore I'm removing my DSC" but every person will always be asked a minimum of "why?".

 

That's a pretty strong statement there. Don't you think so?

[Ewoodspark]

That's a pretty strong statement there. Don't you think so?

 

Absolutely not !. It is just another weary tale from another American trying to get the rest of the World to accept the fact that they just love to tip anything that moves. OK if you actually wish to live your lifes like that but for those people who think that tipping is optional or discretionary, just leave it at that.

[LMaxwell]

Absolutely not !. It is just another weary tale from another American trying to get the rest of the World to accept the fact that they just love to tip anything that moves. OK if you actually wish to live your lifes like that but for those people who think that tipping is optional or discretionary, just leave it at that.

 

Mr. Out to Sea is well known on these boards to be hyperbolic in his claims and a bit outspoken (rude) to people who do not agree with his opinions, which he tries to pass off as fact without disclosing the difference. Therefore for him to claim something is 100% is a rather strong statement and not factually accurate.

 

In essence I agree with you. Out to Sea is trying to socially engineer the discussion by substituting his opinions or desires as being factual and any one that does not agree with him is, in his words, a "jerk". Not a very adult way to carry a conversation.

[SteveH2508]

Put yourself in the position of the poor Guest Services person for a minute.

 

Week-in week-out they get lots of people queuing up to remove their Service Charges for a variety of reasons. The one common factor amongst these people is that they have a reason (genuine or spurious). Many of them are up for arguing the point if necessary. After a long shift of dealing with these people it is no wonder that the GS staff just say OK and process it without demur (notwithstanding the company 'policy' on removal of the SC).

 

Quoting what the web-site says (often inconsistent and out-of-date); arguing over semantic interpretations of tip/gratuity/service charge and dragging in IRS definitions (completely irrelevant BTW) achieves nothing apart from wasting bandwidth and electrons.

 

There is a world of difference between corporate policy and what actually happens on the ground. Why do you think that the 'Undercover Boss' series has run so long?:rolleyes:

[njhorseman]

Absolutely not !. It is just another weary tale from another American trying to get the rest of the World to accept the fact that they just love to tip anything that moves. OK if you actually wish to live your lifes like that but for those people who think that tipping is optional or discretionary, just leave it at that.

 

No, we don't "love to tip", we recognize that in the US people holding certain service jobs such as most restaurant wait staff are paid a piddling sum of money as basic wages...just a small percentage of the minimum wage that is required to be paid to employees working in most other jobs. As a result, tipping is the vehicle used to bring the wages for those jobs up to an amount comparable to what others with similar job responsibilities might otherwise earn. Since most cruise lines operate under a similar wage model (which interestingly enough was developed by Samuel Cunard, the British shipping baron who founded Cunard Lines), Americans as a rule accept tipping as a necessity for paying those who hold those types of service positions.

 

What many who take your position fail to realize or accept is that you, as the consumer are going to pay those wages regardless of whether there is a service charge, or tipping, or not. In the latter instance, the price you pay for your restaurant meal or other service will have to be higher if the wait staff is paid straight normal wages, rather than paid a tiny amount with the consumer adding a tip above the price of the meal. The same holds true on a cruise ship...if there is no service charge or tipping, your base fare will be increased to pay the higher wages of the crew. I wish the cruise lines would bite the bullet and take that "no tipping" approach, because it would cut you off before you could ever open your mouth. You'd have to pay up front as part of the fare, and would have no recourse to remove or reduce anything.

 

So give us a break and drop the arrogant, disingenuous and xenophobic hollow arguments and insults.

Edited February 17, 2015 by njhorseman

[jmele999]

 

I love this. If I, and note that I said "I", cannot afford a $0.95 per day increase ($6.65 per person per week), then I should be not cruising. The staff works very hard and "I" feel that it is fair to given an increase.

 

What NCL should have done was set a date and indicate that cruises booked after that day were going to have to pay the increased DSC.

[luddite]

If someone can't separate policy from opinion without noting the difference it really isn't beneficial to anyone.

 

Keep trying. You'll figure it out.

Eventually.

[LMaxwell]

No, we don't "love to tip", we recognize that in the US people holding certain service jobs such as most restaurant wait staff are paid a piddling sum of money as basic wages...just a small percentage of the minimum wage that is required to be paid to employees working in most other jobs. As a result, tipping is the vehicle used to bring the wages for those jobs up to an amount comparable to what others with similar job responsibilities might otherwise earn. Since most cruise lines operate under a similar wage model (which interestingly enough was developed by Samuel Cunard, the British shipping baron who founded Cunard Lines), Americans as a rule accept tipping as a necessity for paying those who hold those types of service positions.

 

What many who take your position fail to realize or accept is that you, as the consumer are going to pay those wages regardless of whether there is a service charge, or tipping, or not. In the latter instance, the price you pay for your restaurant meal or other service will have to be higher if the wait staff is paid straight normal wages, rather than paid a tiny amount with the consumer adding a tip above the price of the meal. The same holds true on a cruise ship...if there is no service charge or tipping, your base fare will be increased to pay the higher wages of the crew. I wish the cruise lines would bite the bullet and take that "no tipping" approach, because it would cut you off before you could ever open your mouth. You'd have to pay up front as part of the fare, and would have no recourse to remove or reduce anything.

 

So give us a break and drop the arrogant, disingenuous and xenophobic hollow arguments and insults.

 

 

I have to disagree with you to some extent. Americans have discovered a way to get cheap labor out of employees and then make it customary for the guest to leave a tip to supplement wages. Okay, I get that.

 

But it was not that long ago that 10% was average and 15% was a really good tip. Now you are viewed as a monster in the US if you tip under 18%. 20% is expected and I go into restaurants and they print 25 and 30% tip guidelines on the check. So while I do accept service workers getting tipped for their work, it is starting to get out of hand with this tipping culture here and the expectations of ever increasing percentages. I now frequently see tip jars for regular wage positions such as cashiers in self-service places or at pick up windows for call ahead food. It's called tip guilt and is very much a part of US society. It's all because management gets away with not paying their labor properly, not because these servers are so great as to command 20-30% as a tip.

[luddite]

Absolutely not !. It is just another weary tale from another American trying to get the rest of the World to accept the fact that they just love to tip anything that moves. OK if you actually wish to live your lifes like that but for those people who think that tipping is optional or discretionary, just leave it at that.

 

If you would sell your computer you could then afford to buy a clue about your usual tedious subject matter-tipping. Which the DSC is not.

[jmele999]

No, we don't "love to tip", we recognize that in the US people holding certain service jobs such as most restaurant wait staff are paid a piddling sum of money as basic wages...just a small percentage of the minimum wage that is required to be paid to employees working in most other jobs. As a result, tipping is the vehicle used to bring the wages for those jobs up to an amount comparable to what others with similar job responsibilities might otherwise earn. Since most cruise lines operate under a similar wage model (which interestingly enough was developed by Samuel Cunard, the British shipping baron who founded Cunard Lines), Americans as a rule accept tipping as a necessity for paying those who hold those types of service positions.

 

What many who take your position fail to realize or accept is that you, as the consumer are going to pay those wages regardless of whether there is a service charge, or tipping, or not. In the latter instance, the price you pay for your restaurant meal or other service will have to be higher if the wait staff is paid straight normal wages, rather than paid a tiny amount with the consumer adding a tip above the price of the meal. The same holds true on a cruise ship...if there is no service charge or tipping, your base fare will be increased to pay the higher wages of the crew. I wish the cruise lines would bite the bullet and take that "no tipping" approach, because it would cut you off before you could ever open your mouth. You'd have to pay up front as part of the fare, and would have no recourse to remove or reduce anything.

 

So give us a break and drop the arrogant, disingenuous and xenophobic hollow arguments and insults.

 

Well said NJ Horseman. Proud to be from the Garden State.

[jmele999]

I have a question regarding the DSC. Are people upset about it because they are concerned that NCL is keeping some of the funds, or are you unhappy because you wish to only tip the people who are helping you?

Edited February 17, 2015 by jmele999

[LMaxwell]

I have a question regarding the DSC. Are people upset about it because they are concerned that NCL is keeping some of the funds, or are you unhappy because you wish to only tip the people who are helping you?

 

I've been cruising 25 years. Until these automated tips came about it was always recommended that you tip guest facing positions and what amount. No one had heard of tipping the behind the scenes staff because they were paid a regular wage for their work. I do have my concerns about the cruise line keeping some of this money as well as how much goes to those providing services. I've never removed any auto-charges on any cruise, but I still think it is a system with many flaws. Not enough transparency. Just my own personal feelings on the subject.

[njhorseman]

I have to disagree with you to some extent. Americans have discovered a way to get cheap labor out of employees and then make it customary for the guest to leave a tip to supplement wages. Okay, I get that.

 

But it was not that long ago that 10% was average and 15% was a really good tip. Now you are viewed as a monster in the US if you tip under 18%. 20% is expected and I go into restaurants and they print 25 and 30% tip guidelines on the check. So while I do accept service workers getting tipped for their work, it is starting to get out of hand with this tipping culture here and the expectations of ever increasing percentages. I now frequently see tip jars for regular wage positions such as cashiers in self-service places or at pick up windows for call ahead food. It's called tip guilt and is very much a part of US society. It's all because management gets away with not paying their labor properly, not because these servers are so great as to command 20-30% as a tip.

 

While we normally tip in the 20-25% range for good service in a restaurant, we usually ignore the presence of the "tip jar" often found elsewhere. Those workers are paid at least minimum wage, unlike wait staff in most states. There's no reason to tip them, any more than there is to tip the cashier in your local supermarket.

 

Did you ever notice that national fast food chains such as McDonald's do not allow tip jars? It's just a matter of management control. The workers in McDonald's don't earn any more than the workers in your local pizza parlor.

 

By the way...no one has ever come running after me calling me a monster if I happened to tip them less than 20%.

 

If people are so weak-willed as to feel compelled to feed tip jars, it's their issue, not a societal issue.

[njhorseman]

I love this. If I, and note that I said "I", cannot afford a $0.95 per day increase ($6.65 per person per week), then I should be not cruising. The staff works very hard and "I" feel that it is fair to given an increase.

 

What NCL should have done was set a date and indicate that cruises booked after that day were going to have to pay the increased DSC.

 

The "cruises booked after a certain date" approach doesn't work any better for a non-mandatory, non-contractual charge than the approach taken by NCL. It's really no different than raising the price of shore excursions or beer...the price is determined by the day you buy the beer or pay for the shore excursion, not the day you booked the cruise. In fact by taking this approach NCL allows you to lock in the old service charge by prepaying, just as you can lock in the price of a shore excursion by prepaying.

[njhorseman]

I've been cruising 25 years. Until these automated tips came about it was always recommended that you tip guest facing positions and what amount. No one had heard of tipping the behind the scenes staff because they were paid a regular wage for their work. I do have my concerns about the cruise line keeping some of this money as well as how much goes to those providing services. I've never removed any auto-charges on any cruise, but I still think it is a system with many flaws. Not enough transparency. Just my own personal feelings on the subject.

 

Actually, "tipping out" was quite common under the old system. The wait staff and cabin stewards were required to share part of their tips with behind the scenes staff. In fact at one time, before they started adding tips to your bill, Royal Caribbean's website even said so (that the tipped staff had to share their tips) in their tipping FAQ. Management would make an assumption that the typical steward or waiter earned a certain amount in tips and required the employee to turn a percentage of that over so it could (presumably) be distributed to others.

 

Even in US restaurants "tipping out" is rather common, although not universal. Wait staff may have to share their tips with bus staff, bartenders, and in some cases even kitchen staff.

Edited February 17, 2015 by njhorseman

[sjbdtz]

It is not Mandatory. I'm thinking of buying the specialty restaurant package for my 7 night cruise so I will not double tip the MDR. With the implementation of this package they need to rethink a different daily tip amount because it's double dipping. I believe the package for the specialty restaurants include the tip but if not I need to know that.

 

You have already tipped at the specialty restaurants but you can double tip if you want to. It's false information to state specialty restaurants doesn't include the tip because it does.

 

 

There's NO double-dipping. If you ate at the MDR you would have service. It would be paid for from the DSC. If you eat at a specialty, you would have service. It would be paid for from the DSC.

 

I think you are confusing what the Cover Charge at the restaurant is for. It's for the smaller venue, the higher quality food, but does not affect the service personnel.

 

Ergo, no double-dipping. The article you cut & pasted even confirmed what I wrote above. It said that service comes from the auto-gratuities pool.... NOT from the Cover Charge.

 

 

.

[sparks1093]

I've been cruising 25 years. Until these automated tips came about it was always recommended that you tip guest facing positions and what amount. No one had heard of tipping the behind the scenes staff because they were paid a regular wage for their work. I do have my concerns about the cruise line keeping some of this money as well as how much goes to those providing services. I've never removed any auto-charges on any cruise, but I still think it is a system with many flaws. Not enough transparency. Just my own personal feelings on the subject.

 

When you leave your tip for the wait staff in many land based restaurants the waitress will then tip out others on the staff that assisted with your meal, such as the bus person. In the old days of cruising the same thing happened, you left your tip for the server or steward who in turn tipped out other staff members.

 

I don't care where my tip goes- I leave it and forget it. Where it goes after that is between the company and the employees involved.

[cruzsnooze]

I've been cruising 25 years. Until these automated tips came about it was always recommended that you tip guest facing positions and what amount. No one had heard of tipping the behind the scenes staff because they were paid a regular wage for their work. I do have my concerns about the cruise line keeping some of this money as well as how much goes to those providing services. I've never removed any auto-charges on any cruise, but I still think it is a system with many flaws. Not enough transparency. Just my own personal feelings on the subject.

I agree with you. Tipping has become a sport for some people but I think most of the people on this board brag about tips they really don't give. I believe they think the cruise line knows their real names from their screen names ( which they actually can find out or figure out) and want to be labeled cheer leaders by NCL.

I won't be paying the increase in the DSC because I think it's too high. I will tip in cash the waiters and room steward and if they want to turn the cash in then it's their choice. I believe in tipping those that actually serve me not the laundry, the chef, the captain, the CD or Doctor.

Edited February 18, 2015 by cruzsnooze

[SJ]

I don't think anyone is really arguing that staff doesn't deserve an increase. They work harder than many Americans. What concerns me is to what end will the passengers have to pay in wages to the staff? Will we eventually be contributing to officer's salaries? I remembered being asked or it was suggested to tip the head of housekeeping before there was a dsc when I never met the person. Some will argue he is in charge of the stewards who clean our cabins and therefore deserves the tip. I will argue that he was merely doing his job.

 

When carnival increased the dsc, it was explained that it was going to the entertainers and guest services. I did remove the increase and gave it to my waitstaff because they were excellent and Carnival was on the decline in offering professional entertainers.

 

On the Breakaway last December, I did overhear guest services telling passengers they can adjust dsc on the last day when they tried to do it before then, so not really clear if anyone is allowed to adjust before then.

 

I don't mind tipping or paying the dsc for those who served me and my family but I really think corporations like Ncl should pay a proper wage to those behind the scenes like laundry that everyone keeps mentioning. My fare includes clean sheets and towels, i don't think I should have to tip or pay extra for this. This reasoning extends to guest services and entertainment staff.

 

For those who says .95 cents is such small amount, why can't Ncl pay it then? Obviously it's about the bottom line for any corporation so if you need to pay your employees, build it into the cost like any other business. If we as passengers have accepted the fuel surcharge when they tried to implemented back in 2008, we still be paying it right now when prices have dropped 50%. That's what corporations rely on, consumers who will accept any increase.

Edited February 18, 2015 by SJ

[njhorseman]

I don't think anyone is really arguing that staff doesn't deserve an increase. They work harder than many Americans. What concerns me is to what end will the passengers have to pay in wages to the staff? Will we eventually be contributing to officer's salaries? I remembered being asked or it was suggested to tip the head of housekeeping before there was a dsc when I never met the person. Some will argue he is in charge of the stewards who clean our cabins and therefore deserves the tip. I will argue that he was merely doing his job.

 

When carnival increased the dsc, it was explained that it was going to the entertainers and guest services. I did remove the increase and gave it to my waitstaff because they were excellent and Carnival was on the decline in offering professional entertainers.

 

On the Breakaway last December, I did overhear guest services telling passengers they can adjust dsc on the last day when they tried to do it before then, so not really clear if anyone is allowed to adjust before then.

 

I don't mind tipping or paying the dsc for those who served me and my family but I really think corporations like Ncl should pay a proper wage to those behind the scenes like laundry that everyone keeps mentioning. My fare includes clean sheets and towels, i don't think I should have to tip or pay extra for this. This reasoning extends to guest services and entertainment staff.

 

For those who says .95 cents is such small amount, why can't Ncl pay it then? Obviously it's about the bottom line for any corporation so if you need to pay your employees, build it into the cost like any other business. If we as passengers have accepted the fuel surcharge when they tried to implemented back in 2008, we still be paying it right now when prices have dropped 50%. That's what corporations rely on, consumers who will accept any increase.

 

You seriously can't think you're not already paying paying everyone's salary, regardless of whether they're the captain, the CEO of the corporation, or the lowest paid deckhand. The money that the company uses to pay their salaries, and everyone's salary, already comes from you, whether from the fare or a service charge.

Edited February 18, 2015 by njhorseman

[Shayhooper]

So when I tipped our room steward in cash above and beyond the DSC, she didn't get to keep it all?

[njhorseman]

So when I tipped our room steward in cash above and beyond the DSC, she didn't get to keep it all?

 

No one said that.

[SuiteCruiser]

So when I tipped our room steward in cash above and beyond the DSC, she didn't get to keep it all?

 

Yes. If you leave the DSC in place, that money is theirs. If you remove it, they hand it in to the pool, or they risk losing their jobs. For many these jobs are far better than they could get at home, so they will not take that chance.