Del Rio's EXACT comments on the recent Fees and Price Increases

[eroller]

I rarely order room service and rarely take food from the buffet so these changes really shouldn't bother me, but they do. Life already has too many restrictions that I don't need even more imposed on me while on vacation. These seem like simple pleasures to those that take advantage of them so why make it so restrictive? For a small financial gain I suppose. Worst business practice ever to implement new policies with little financial benefit that piss off so many customers.

 

I never felt NCL was trying to become upscale and certainly don't now. These new policies and fees make the line more of a bottom feeder than ever, which is the exact perception that Sheehan was trying to shed. The physical nature of NCL ships is mass-market and that will never change.

 

With so many negative changes so quickly, hopefully there will be something positive in return from a passenger viewpoint. Let's see some improvement in the experience that is customer focused and friendly, and not tied to financial gain for NCL.

Edited May 11, 2015 by eroller

[barb-ottawa]

After 9 NCL cruises, I took the plunge and gave Celebrity a try last month. While I love the informality of NCL, they will have to go a very, very long way to compete with the more "upscale" lines. Besides the cleanliness of the ship and the level of service that was head over heels above NCL, the most notable difference was the ability of all levels of staff in every function to communicate with guests. On each of my last two NCL cruises, I became increasingly frustrated with the language barrier in the dining room. In addition, Celebrity staff seemed to genuinely love their jobs whereas the majority of NCL staff seemed to be just going through the motions. This was not the case on my first 7 NCL cruises, but was very apparent on my last 2.

[softsands]

Folks, you can send all of the letter and emails you want and it won't make a difference for one of two reasons: 1) you haven't sailed since the changes were implemented so your opinion will not matter because you are just speculating or 2) Del Rio has made up his mind which direction he wants to take NCL and will determine that if you are complaining you don't fall into the demographic of a customer he wants to attract.

 

Del Rio wants to move NCL from a mainstream line in competition with RCI and CCL into an upscale line competing with Celebrity (an Oceania-lite type of cruise line). There is nothing inherently wrong with that from a business standpoint, other than the fact that he is leaving behind a lot of formerly loyal customers.

 

(And for what it's worth I would not notice a .15 cent increase in a soda unless I was on a back to back when it happened but would certainly notice paying $7.95 for something that used to be free;).)

 

Yeah, good luck with that. NCL will always be a mass market player and no where near a premium line.

[AlphaGeek]

I never felt NCL was trying to become upscale and certainly don't now. These new policies and fees make the line more of a bottom feeder than ever, which is the exact perception that Sheehan was trying to shed. The physical nature of NCL ships is mass-market and that will never change.

.

 

Very well said. I don't see NCL ever successfully moving upscale. They do too much nickel and diming. True upscale organizations do not behave in this way.

[Sizzlechest]

I posted this back when the "no more lobster night" thread was aflame:

 

There's an urban legend in the airline industry claims that the former CEO of American Airlines, Bob Crandall, once saved his company $100,000 a year by calling for the removal of a single olive from every in-flight salad. As the story goes, some of these savings came from lower fuel burn thanks to fewer olives, and thus a lighter load on each flight in the American network.

 

I'm in the "lobster night was a joke and we're better off without it" camp. However, NCL seems to have embarked on a "how many olives can we remove?" campaign over the last couple years. This is precisely why I quit Carnival after just one cruise. Carnival seems to have optimized their cost/benefit for just about every aspect of their operation. They provided the minimum acceptable level of quality whenever possible. People who had been cruising for a while were less inclined to see the totality of this. Like the story of the frog being boiled alive in the pot, the slight changes over time eased them into complacency. "Yeah, maybe the food is a little worse, but that won't make me change my mind about Carnival." "Okay, maybe the entertainment has dipped, but that won't make me change my mind about Carnival." "I admit the staff isn't as accommodating as they used to be, but I still like Carnival." Eventually all those little things add up.

 

I honestly can't wait for my cruise on the Breakaway. I think it's going to be great and I think I'm going to like the bigger ship. I got the specialty dining package for free and I made reservations for the shows and dining in advance. I'm very curious how the NCL experience will compare to 2 years ago. It may not be a fair comparison considering I'll be having lobster from Le Bistro (maybe twice) and I may never have to visit a buffet during the entire cruise, but I guess I'll have to wait and see.

 

Well, here I am one year later and it looks like more and more "olives" are being removed from the plate. I'm glad I went on the Breakaway last year. I'll be on the Gem this year. Once again, I don't think many of the changes will effect me, personally. Based on the current promo, there UDP is off the table. My child doesn't eat off the adult menu, so no worries there. No Cirque show on the Gem. I guess I'll wait and see. I'm not passing judgement, but these things have made me decide that next year, we're taking a break from cruising altogether. NCL isn't a "slam dunk" like it used to be and I sure as heck ain't going back to Carnival.

[mickeysgal]

Very well said. I don't see NCL ever successfully moving upscale. They do too much nickel and diming. True upscale organizations do not behave in this way.

 

Exactly. The truly upscale lines are all inclusive. All drinks, all food, even excursions (Viking).

 

If NCL was truly headed in this direction, they wouldn't be implementing service charges or stopping their "upscale" customer from taking a plate of whatever back to their room.

 

Instead NCL acts like they're operating a freshman college dining hall and making sure the kids aren't removing food from the lunch room.

 

Not exactly upscale.

[ravenjls]

I rarely order room service and rarely take food from the buffet so these changes really shouldn't bother me, but they do. Life already has too many restrictions that I don't need even more imposed on me while on vacation. These seem like simple pleasures to those that take advantage of them so why make it so restrictive? For a small financial gain I suppose. Worst business practice ever to implement new policies with little financial benefit that piss off so many customers.

 

I never felt NCL was trying to become upscale and certainly don't now. These new policies and fees make the line more of a bottom feeder than ever, which is the exact perception that Sheehan was trying to shed. The physical nature of NCL ships is mass-market and that will never change.

 

With so many negative changes so quickly, hopefully there will be something positive in return from a passenger viewpoint. Let's see some improvement in the experience that is customer focused and friendly, and not tied to financial gain for NCL.

 

I couldnt have said it better myself!

[hondorner]

People just don't get it. I'll state it again. The room service fee is one of the things designed to improve guest experience. TravelCat has it right, some folks, especially unsupervised kids, order room service several times per day. There are only so many staff available for delivering room service. So many trivial deliveries, many for trivial amounts of food, was taking a toll on room service speed. Adding the fee is a simple way to make people stop and think before they randomly order room service at the drop of a hat. Room service is faster, the guest experience is better.

 

Such fees are an effective way to throttle demand and make certain it's really intended. NCL is hoping the fee reduces the calls for room service so they can improve the experience. There's only so many crew on a ship; they can't just simply keep adding staff for trivial deliveries.

 

It's not really "money grubbing" at all; if there was some other way to reduce trivial calls for room service, I'm certain they would rather have tried it. If they are successful in reducing demand, the amount they collect will be peanuts in the grand scheme.

 

I'm willing to bet that the suggestion did not come from anywhere near Frank Del Rio; I'll bet it was one or more desparate Food & Beverage Managers begging corporate for a solution.

 

I'm not a NCL cheerleader, I'm just applying logic and common sense, something that seems sorely lacking in many of these discussions.

[fshagan]

Exactly. The truly upscale lines are all inclusive. All drinks, all food, even excursions (Viking).

 

If NCL was truly headed in this direction, they wouldn't be implementing service charges or stopping their "upscale" customer from taking a plate of whatever back to their room.

 

Instead NCL acts like they're operating a freshman college dining hall and making sure the kids aren't removing food from the lunch room.

 

Not exactly upscale.

 

FDR has been misquoted here by people saying he wants a "more affluent customer". That is not at all what he said. He said he want to retain current customers and attract a "slightly more affluent customer". The "slightly" is important, because I think it applies not to premium or luxury markets but instead the higher end of the mass market occupied by RCI.

 

Regent Seven Seas, also under NCLH, is a premium, all-inclusive, upper class line. Oceania is less so, but above NCL in stature. Rather than competing with CCL for the bottom of the market, DelRio wants to compete for the "slightly more affluent" customer now going to HAL and RCI.

 

Not sure he'll get there, but at least its important to realize his stated intention isn't to jettison current customers and get "more affluent customers". The distinction is lost here with the outrage, but if we're going to quote the man we could at least quote him accurately.

[SuiteCruiser]

People just don't get it. I'll state it again. The room service fee is one of the things designed to improve guest experience. TravelCat has it right, some folks, especially unsupervised kids, order room service several times per day. There are only so many staff available for delivering room service. So many trivial deliveries, many for trivial amounts of food, was taking a toll on room service speed. Adding the fee is a simple way to make people stop and think before they randomly order room service at the drop of a hat. Room service is faster, the guest experience is better.

 

Such fees are an effective way to throttle demand and make certain it's really intended. NCL is hoping the fee reduces the calls for room service so they can improve the experience. There's only so many crew on a ship; they can't just simply keep adding staff for trivial deliveries.

 

It's not really "money grubbing" at all; if there was some other way to reduce trivial calls for room service, I'm certain they would rather have tried it. If they are successful in reducing demand, the amount they collect will be peanuts in the grand scheme.

 

I'm willing to bet that the suggestion did not come from anywhere near Frank Del Rio; I'll bet it was one or more desparate Food & Beverage Managers begging corporate for a solution.

 

I'm not a NCL cheerleader, I'm just applying logic and common sense, something that seems sorely lacking in many of these discussions.

 

I totally disagree. If this was the case, there would not be restrictions implemented at the same time from taking food back from restaurants. Clearly only looking for the $$$

 

As well, if it was being used solely as a deterrent, you don't need to charge $8 for that. You can charge $2. If people have to pay for it, they have to pay for it. Kids won't be ordering all day if their parents are getting charged $2 every single time.

 

It's all about the almighty $

[hondorner]

Exactly. The truly upscale lines are all inclusive. All drinks, all food, even excursions (Viking)...

Upscale is relative. Royal Caribbean is probably upscale from NCL and Carnival. Princess may be upscale of Royal Caribbean. Celebrity is likely upscale of Princess. HAL used to be upscale of Celebrity. Azamara is upscale of Celebrity. Oceania is upscale of them all, but still not considered luxury. The true luxury cruise lines are Regent, Crystal, SilverSea and Seabourn, and SeaDream Yacht Club in a small way. Then there's the condominium ship called The World, where studio cabins are more than $600,000 and suits start at $13.5 Million, plus monthly fees.

 

Not all luxury lines are all-inclusive; Regent comes the closest to most all-inclusive.

 

Among river cruises, Viking is probably at the bottom. The only things that are included are standard shore excursions, but most are simply walking tours. Premium tours are offered at most ports for a fee. The closest European river cruises to all-inclusive are Uniworld and Scenic; the latter includes all excursions, all special events, all gratuities including tour drivers and guides, all alcohol except the absolute top shelf, and butlers in every cabin. The American river cruise paddlewheel steamboat American Queen is semi-all-inclusive with most excursions and wine or beer at lunch and dinner included.

 

When FDR says he wants to move upscale to a slightly more affluent level, he's talking only about bringing it up a notch above bottom. Frankly, he's not concerned with anyone currently canceling cruises -- first of all, if they're that touchy, they're probably the ones who complain the most and good riddance (my opinion). Second, there is plenty of opportunity in the slightly more upscale market; People are willing to pay more to sail Princess and Celebrity and Disney, for example, and there's plenty of potential in that market to replace folks who leave because the pricing is no longer at the bottom. But, first they have to chase away the whiners, moaners and cheapskates, then they can provide the service that gets higher prices (my opinion). It will take a couple of years.

[S.S.Oceanlover]

I totally disagree. If this was the case, there would not be restrictions implemented at the same time from taking food back from restaurants. Clearly only looking for the $$$

 

 

 

As well, if it was being used solely as a deterrent, you don't need to charge $8 for that. You can charge $2. If people have to pay for it, they have to pay for it. Kids won't be ordering all day if their parents are getting charged $2 every single time.

 

 

 

It's all about the almighty $

 

 

I totally agree with you. Especially the part about the rule about taking food back to the room. How does that seem logical if you are just trying to fix the room service?

 

Bill

[eroller]

People just don't get it. I'll state it again. The room service fee is one of the things designed to improve guest experience. TravelCat has it right, some folks, especially unsupervised kids, order room service several times per day. There are only so many staff available for delivering room service. So many trivial deliveries, many for trivial amounts of food, was taking a toll on room service speed. Adding the fee is a simple way to make people stop and think before they randomly order room service at the drop of a hat. Room service is faster, the guest experience is better.

 

Such fees are an effective way to throttle demand and make certain it's really intended. NCL is hoping the fee reduces the calls for room service so they can improve the experience. There's only so many crew on a ship; they can't just simply keep adding staff for trivial deliveries.

 

 

 

Oh I think people get it and are not as naive as you may think. Plain and simple this is a cost saving initiative in several respects. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out how. If NCL were truly interested in enhancing the passenger experience they would simply staff appropriately to support the room service demand. Simple as that.

 

It's also interesting how the new food removal policy ties in nicely with the new room service fee. To my knowledge no other cruise line has this policy (and I sail them all) and somehow they manage just fine. It's restrictive and certainly not customer focused.

 

In addition the new room service fees promote food waste. Since a flat fee is being charged, people will order excessive amounts of food to ensure they are getting their monies worth. A really bad and poorly executed policy in my opinion.

[hondorner]

... If NCL were truly interested in enhancing the passenger experience they would simply staff appropriately to support the room service demand. Simple as that...

Where would you put them, in revenue producing passenger cabins, or sleeping in hammocks on the Sun Deck?

[SteveH2508]

Hot button CC topic warning!

 

If FDR wishes to move NCL more upmarket then there are other perceptions that need to change. We have just about done the nickle and diming one to death. There is another perception that they will need to address which is a core part of the Freestyle concept - dress codes. NCL has a reputation (not altogether fair IMHO) of shorts, flip-flops and ball caps everwhere.

 

He wants to position them more in line with RCL. He must have seen the uproar when the brought in their Dynamic Dining? There are many traditionalists who want the Fixed Dining.

 

What other parts of the Freestyle concept are up for review?

[insidecabin]

Even without those improvements, he said advance reservations for Norwegian ships are robust, with the booked load factor for 2016 roughly double what it was for 2015 at the same time last year.

 

“The necessary condition in my view of being able to raise prices and per diems, and therefore yields, is load factor,” Del Rio said. “When you’re as well booked into the future as we are at this point, that bodes very well for constant increases in pricing.”

 

We all know that this advance reservations boost is on the back of "Choice".

 

They added a load of goodies but took time to reajust the prices on a lot of trips.

 

The cruise we booked was at about the right price anyway and they added UBP and UDP.

 

Looking forward how sustainable is this, lets face it all these advanced bookings were made because the deal was good and it might go away, Jan came and went the promo continued, we all think we could have waited, its back to pricing, Feb came and wen promo still going on looks like it is here to stay ......

 

Here we are in May and it is still going on but in a much diluted form,

reduced shore ex credit, $50 4 ports from $75 7 ports

no UDP only credits for PAX 1-2,

no UBP...

 

what new dilutions will we see in June?

 

What are they going to do to get me and others early to keep that channel pumped with bookings

 

So far the message is fewer(no) discounting all by adding value, ok I can still wait and see what added value you will use to tempt me into those last few cabins.

The current US promotion is not good enough too diluted now.

Give me back the original choices and I might be booking at higher prices

 

In my view if the adding value model continues in one form or another the bookings will revert back to the normal cycle, the boost was a one off gain that is very hard to repeat.

 

Some lines manage it by only giving out the goodies on the advanced(next season) bookings and then selectively throwing them onto this seasons to boost bookings or having sales.

 

Princess is doing it this year, all 2016 bookings(UK) come with a beverage package we will see how long that lasts, princess tends to do 3-4pax, OBC and flight offers.

.......................

 

One thing I have noticed is that those NCL winter 15/16 cruise on the Epic I am looking at had a 20%-30% price hike on the 8 May now way overpriced even with the perks thrown in.

Edited May 11, 2015 by insidecabin

[maywell]

In addition the new room service fees promote food waste. Since a flat fee is being charged, people will order excessive amounts of food to ensure they are getting their monies worth. A really bad and poorly executed policy in my opinion.

 

Yes, but now it has a price tag on it and there lies the fundamental difference from before. So if people want to be wasteful with room service food, its now on the passenger's euro / dollar / pound and not on NCL's. The financial responsibility switch-around behind it is not as bad and poorly executed as one thinks - just the cost of deliver is what bad and poorly executed (I know for certain MSC charges $3.95 per room service delivery).

[sparks1093]

Do not disagree at all. NCL is thought of as the bottom of the food chain by many. It needs to improve its' image. I cannot imagine anyone reading some of the "complaint" threads and thinking about how NCL must look with food plates laying outside of the doors in the hallway. And, it sounds like customers want to add more to that by taking food back to their rooms.

 

There needs to be a compromise somewhere. As previously suggested, perhaps one "free" room service a day would help. It sounds like some NCL passengers are camping on NCL rather than realizing that they are not on a remote mountain somewhere ........ they can get food 24/7 ...... no need to hoard snacks in the cabin. Or, another suggestion..... perhaps NCL could make fruit bars, protein bars and other packaged snacks available to take to the cabins. Passengers with disabilities may require "included" or "free" room service for breakfast, lunch and dinner.

 

Is there really a need for unlimited room service where each child can order whatever they want...... whenever they want? Where a family with 3 children could order room service 6-8 times per day? Obviously room service costs NCL money. If NCL raises their fares, it affects everyone. By charging for room service, it affect only passengers who use room service.

 

So they charge for room service on RCI, HAL, X, Oceania, Regent? What do those passengers do with their trays when they are done eating? I have stayed in upscale hotels and the room service trays are put in the hallway. Providing room service costs NCL virtually nothing- the food is available for free in other venues and the staff is paid through the daily service charge. This isn't about the room service charge anyway when you get right down to it- it's about Del Rio's vision for NCL. For better or worse the old NCL is going away and some of us don't like that because we like the old NCL just fine.

[sparks1093]

What other parts of the Freestyle concept are up for review?

 

It is all subject to review if perceptions need to be changed.

[eroller]

Yes, but now it has a price tag on it and there lies the fundamental difference from before. So if people want to be wasteful with room service food, its now on the passenger's euro / dollar / pound and not on NCL's. The financial responsibility switch-around behind it is not as bad and poorly executed as one thinks - just the cost of deliver is what bad and poorly executed (I know for certain MSC charges $3.95 per room service delivery).

 

 

Well it will depend on what food is ordered and in what quantities. NCL will make a profit on some room service orders, perhaps break even on others, and lose money on some as well … so I do think there is financial impact to NCL in regards to this new policy. As I mentioned before I think people will over-order to compensate for the fee, where as in the past they would only order what they actually desired at the moment.

 

Carnival has recently implemented their own room service fees, but it's much more logical and well thought out. Core items are still complimentary 24/7, but upgraded items have a fee on a per item basis. This way you only pay for exactly what you want to order. Far better than NCL's version and it prevents food waste.

[eroller]

Obviously room service costs NCL money. If NCL raises their fares, it affects everyone. By charging for room service, it affect only passengers who use room service.

 

 

Is this what you really think? That by charging a room service fee that NCL won't raise their fares? Get real. They will do both. Fares will continue to increase but at the same time NCL will continue to figure out ways to increase onboard revenue. They don't call NCL "Fee-Style Cruising" for nothing.

 

FDR's motto seems to be lets gouge our customers as much as possible in small discreet ways that we hope no one will notice. Jack up beverages prices this week, speciality dining the next, gratuities after that, and maybe tack on some new fees the next. All this while doing nothing to actually enhance the onboard product.

 

There seems to be very little regard or respect for the NCL customer. It's not just the new policies but the somewhat underhanded way they have been implemented. It's all very sketchy.

[hypercafe]

If you want to see the captive audience concept in full force sail on Oceania. IMO all things that are not included in the fare cost more than on any other line I have sailed on and it works as most of the guests seem very happy to pay.

 

As for room service, on Oceania different levels of cabin have different menus. IMO this is to make you feel of a lower stance so next cruise you will upgrade to be with the upper-class. I would rather it was included however better to pay a fee and get what you want. IMO this is to make money, not to improve anything as the FDR cheerleaders say. He has said many times he wants more money from the NCL customers, in fact he has said in effect why not raise the price, where can they go once the ship sails.

 

Not taking food back to your cabin is so you do not circumvent the room service charge.

 

Since the ticket prices have already gone up and maybe drove away some of those undesirable people Don spoke of I wonder when the customer experience on the ships will rise say to the level of say X. On my last Breakaway trip the carving station had meatloaf as the featured dish one night, give me a brake!!! On my last X trip, last week, there was a grill to order station similar to the terrace grill on Oceania and meatloaf was no ware to be found!!

[hondorner]

Hot button CC topic warning!

 

If FDR wishes to move NCL more upmarket then there are other perceptions that need to change. We have just about done the nickle and diming one to death. There is another perception that they will need to address which is a core part of the Freestyle concept - dress codes. NCL has a reputation (not altogether fair IMHO) of shorts, flip-flops and ball caps everwhere.

 

He wants to position them more in line with RCL. He must have seen the uproar when the brought in their Dynamic Dining? There are many traditionalists who want the Fixed Dining.

 

What other parts of the Freestyle concept are up for review?

Won't happen. Regent and Oceania have the most relaxed dress codes in the industry, almost identical to the dress code for each NCL ship more dressy dining room. The primary difference is jeans. The dress code on Oceania and Regent for evening dining is "country club casual" or "elegant casual", defined as long trousers and collared shirt for men, pants or skirts and nice top or dresses for ladies. There are no formal nights, there is no need to bring a jacket (although some do, out of choice, just like on NCL). FDR has famously been quoted as saying if he ever sees someone in a tux on Oceania, he'll think it's a maitre 'd. He deliberately left out tie racks on Marina and Riviera, the two ships he designed.

 

As for dining, Oceania and Regent have never had traditional fixed dining; both are open concept with meals cooked à la minute. Dining is between 6:30 and 9:00 pm, and you're free to come at any time, sit anywhere that's available and with anyone. Specialty restaurants have no fee, but reservations are required because they are small and popular.

 

In other words, NCL's Freestyle is the closest thing I've found to the relaxed ambiance on Oceania and Regent, and the primary reason I chose NCL as my budget cruise line. Perhaps the only problem is that NCL passengers themselves have diluted the Freestyle concept over time by carrying it too far in terms of poor dress and behavior.

[RiotAct]

People just don't get it. I'll state it again. The room service fee is one of the things designed to improve guest experience. TravelCat has it right, some folks, especially unsupervised kids, order room service several times per day. There are only so many staff available for delivering room service. So many trivial deliveries, many for trivial amounts of food, was taking a toll on room service speed. Adding the fee is a simple way to make people stop and think before they randomly order room service at the drop of a hat. Room service is faster, the guest experience is better.

 

Such fees are an effective way to throttle demand and make certain it's really intended. NCL is hoping the fee reduces the calls for room service so they can improve the experience. There's only so many crew on a ship; they can't just simply keep adding staff for trivial deliveries.

 

It's not really "money grubbing" at all; if there was some other way to reduce trivial calls for room service, I'm certain they would rather have tried it. If they are successful in reducing demand, the amount they collect will be peanuts in the grand scheme.

 

I'm willing to bet that the suggestion did not come from anywhere near Frank Del Rio; I'll bet it was one or more desparate Food & Beverage Managers begging corporate for a solution.

 

I'm not a NCL cheerleader, I'm just applying logic and common sense, something that seems sorely lacking in many of these discussions.

 

well, in that case they should start charging extra per appetizer and entree in the MDR as well!!! Some people like to order one of everything, taking time and resources away from the galley and the servers.

[RiotAct]

Also, in that vein, I would add: it's likely that quite a few people are now going to order "one of everything" from room service to try and make the most of that $8 fee that has been added on.