Where or what are the improvements?

[MisterFidgetpants]

For all of the increased and new charges being levied, what are the improvements for guests? More cabin amenities? Had anyone noticed more bar staff or shorter waits?

 

If there is an improvement in quality I would say some of these charges are reasonable. Are we getting more by paying more? Or are we getting the same but paying more?

[SeaShark]

For all of the increased and new charges being levied, what are the improvements for guests? More cabin amenities? Had anyone noticed more bar staff or shorter waits?

 

If there is an improvement in quality I would say some of these charges are reasonable. Are we getting more by paying more? Or are we getting the same but paying more?

 

That is an interesting topic...How much improvement would you say is needed before the charges are "reasonable"? What exactly is the cut-off for "reasonable"?

 

Who gets to define "reasonable"

 

How much more are you willing to spend assuming that the price increase comes with a service increase?

 

Should "reasonable" under one person's budget mean that another person with a different budget must then accept it? If not, is there a possibility that there might be someone who considers the current price/level of service "reasonable"?

[MisterFidgetpants]

That is an interesting topic...How much improvement would you say is needed before the charges are "reasonable"? What exactly is the cut-off for "reasonable"?

 

Who gets to define "reasonable"

 

How much more are you willing to spend assuming that the price increase comes with a service increase?

 

Should "reasonable" under one person's budget mean that another person with a different budget must then accept it? If not, is there a possibility that there might be someone who considers the current price/level of service "reasonable"?

All great questions. Really great. What I am getting at is they are charging more so are we getting more in return? If service and amenities have not increased at all the value has gone down with increased charges. If service and amenities improve as a result of these charges at least you get more than a slap in the face out of the deal.

 

There are lots of apologists for the price increases but they never can point out any service or amenity improvement. So is there no increase for the additional charges?

[Cruising Golfer]

No, it is meant for the staff that serve you... And I think it's over due as long as it goes to the workers!!! :cool:

[zqvol]

All great questions. Really great. What I am getting at is they are charging more so are we getting more in return? If service and amenities have not increased at all the value has gone down with increased charges. If service and amenities improve as a result of these charges at least you get more than a slap in the face out of the deal.

 

There are lots of apologists for the price increases but they never can point out any service or amenity improvement. So is there no increase for the additional charges?

 

Everyone wants all these promos that have been going on for the past months. They have to be paid for some way. You either raise fares or your raise other fees.

 

Take all the UBP, the UDP, the free Internet, and paid DSC away and you don't have the bumps.

 

IMO what we are going to see sooner rather than later is that the DSC will be made mandatory, or it will be done away with completely and fares will be raised about $15 dollars per day to cover the DSC.

 

NCL is in business to make money and one way or the other they have to do so or else they are no longer in business.

[zqvol]

No, it is meant for the staff that serve you... And I think it's over due as long as it goes to the workers!!! :cool:

 

As long as the staff is paid what they agree to accept as their salary when they sign their contract does it matter how NCL get the money to pay them? Whether it is with increased fees, or increased fares the passengers are the ones who pay. I'm sure that you don't ask in a department store how commissions are divided or even if they earn commissions. You don't ask in a restaurant how gratuities are divided (and I can assure you that in any fine dining establishment servers divide their gratuities).

 

BTW if you don't like the fees, service charges, etc. I can point you to a few lines where you don't pay a penny after you board the ship expect for excursions and spa services. Everything is included, gratuities are not expect nor accepted, and food is truly 5*+. Of course on a per day basis they run about $500- $600 pp/pd on the low side.

 

Pay the fees, consider them a cost of cruising and have a good time.

Edited July 17, 2015 by zqvol

[LMaxwell]

 

Pay the fees, consider them a cost of cruising and have a good time.

 

If they want to increase fees, we as customers have a right to ask what we get in return for the additional charges coming out of our wallets. Value for money is something some people still expect. If you want to charge me more, what more am I getting for it? There should be something to show for it. That's my opinion on the topic.

 

Other than the noodle bar, which is only on some ships, being free, I haven't read of any other improvements for the additional charges.

[Cruising Golfer]

If they want to increase fees, we as customers have a right to ask what we get in return for the additional charges coming out of our wallets. Value for money is something some people still expect. If you want to charge me more, what more am I getting for it? There should be something to show for it. That's my opinion on the topic.

 

Other than the noodle bar, which is only on some ships, being free, I haven't read of any other improvements for the additional charges.

 

You can have them removed, but I wouldn't... :cool:

[LMaxwell]

You can have them removed, but I wouldn't... :cool:

 

 

 

When they went from 15% to 18% bar gratuity did the service get better or worse? Or did it not change at all?

[Steeler Nation At Sea]

If they want to increase fees, we as customers have a right to ask what we get in return for the additional charges coming out of our wallets. Value for money is something some people still expect. If you want to charge me more, what more am I getting for it? There should be something to show for it. That's my opinion on the topic.

 

Huh? No additional fees, just an increase to a current DSC fee for which you'll receive the same level of service as you do today. Call it inflationary, an operating cost adjustment or simply choose to avoid it by choosing not to purchase a cruise.

 

Do you stand at the gas pumps demanding more than a gallon when the price rises?

[Cruising Golfer]

When they went from 15% to 18% bar gratuity did the service get better or worse? Or did it not change at all?

 

Would you rather they just raise the fare for sailing???

Then who gets the extra cash??? :cool:

[LMaxwell]

Huh? No additional fees, just an increase to a current DSC fee

 

In the first half of 2015:

Two DSC increases

New service charge at specialty dining

Increase in bar drink prices plus 20% increase in gratuity from 15% to 18%

Loss of Illusionarium from dining packages

Kids no longer half priced in specialty

 

DSC is not the only increase. NCL are charging ALL cruisers more money now. Are we getting more service for our money? By the sounds of the rustling pom poms here it seems the answer is NO. Not one brand defender has pointed to a single improvement made for the guests satisfaction. Even I threw out a bone that the noodle bar is now free; no one else can point to anything given to the guest for the higher prices being charged now.

 

Can you?

[LMaxwell]

Would you rather they just raise the fare for sailing???

Then who gets the extra cash??? :cool:

NCL get all the extra cash either way. I'm about value for money. You want to charge me more? Fine. I'm going to ask what I get in return for it. If NCL wants to raise the cruise fare instead of increasing fees, that is fine, I would still ask what is the return to the guest. There has to be something that is improved to justify the hikes. And there isn't. There OP, you have your answer. you can have noodle for free. If you consider that an improvement, so be it. But for all the other increased fees and charges you get NOTHING in return. Not better food. Not better service. Not nicer shampoo. Nothing.

[Cruising Golfer]

In the first half of 2015:

Two DSC increases

New service charge at specialty dining

Increase in bar drink prices plus 20% increase in gratuity from 15% to 18%

Loss of Illusionarium from dining packages

Kids no longer half priced in specialty

 

DSC is not the only increase. NCL are charging ALL cruisers more money now. Are we getting more service for our money? By the sounds of the rustling pom poms here it seems the answer is NO. Not one brand defender has pointed to a single improvement made for the guests satisfaction. Even I threw out a bone that the noodle bar is now free; no one else can point to anything given to the guest for the higher prices being charged now.

 

Can you?

 

You just don't get it... The money is for the servers and stewards and the others.

As for higher prices, have you seen the price of eggs??? :cool:

[LMaxwell]

You just don't get it... The money is for the servers and stewards and the others.

As for higher prices, have you seen the price of eggs??? :cool:

 

I just don't believe it is going to the servers and stewards. I would hope it is, they deserve to earn more money. But I strongly doubt it.

 

FDR has said he wants more money from guests. Guests so far have responded by laying down and handing it over. Maybe we should be asking whats in the bargain for us.

[SeaShark]

All great questions. Really great. What I am getting at is they are charging more so are we getting more in return? If service and amenities have not increased at all the value has gone down with increased charges. If service and amenities improve as a result of these charges at least you get more than a slap in the face out of the deal.

 

There are lots of apologists for the price increases but they never can point out any service or amenity improvement. So is there no increase for the additional charges?

 

How can we say we aren't getting more without determining if we need or deserve more?

 

Believe me, I get what you are asking...the part you've glossed over is that it hasn't been shown that "the service received vs new price" is outside of the range of acceptable value. IOW, if the service was worth more than the price paid, then an increase in price without an increase in service would be justified.

 

Now...I'm not claiming that it (service-value-price) is out of whack, I'm simply pointing out that it has to be clearly defined BEFORE leveling criticism (or praise) at it.

[Cruising Golfer]

I just don't believe it is going to the servers and stewards. I would hope it is, they deserve to earn more money. But I strongly doubt it.

 

FDR has said he wants more money from guests. Guests so far have responded by laying down and handing it over. Maybe we should be asking whats in the bargain for us.

 

It's not Carnival.:eek: :cool:

[LMaxwell]

It's not Carnival.:eek: :cool:

 

1. I'm not sure what you mean.

2. you haven't pointed to a single improvement from the guest end of the bargain.

3. I like your avatar...I hope that is yours :D

[Cruising Golfer]

1. I'm not sure what you mean.

2. you haven't pointed to a single improvement from the guest end of the bargain.

3. I like your avatar...I hope that is yours :D

 

I mean I would rather be on NCL than Carnival. Lower priced yes great service and extras (for free).Not so much.

No improvements, some up ticks, nothing to write home about!!!

If that baby was mine, I would never have to cruise on any line!!! :cool:

[Cauzneffct]

As I said in another thread, I don't understand why NCL doesn't just raise their fares by $5 per person per day (or progressively; higher cabins have higher daily increases). They're locked in (people can't work around them or choose not to pay them), and they're not that visible. Prices fluctuate frequently, so adding (or not subtracting during a price drop) $35 per person for a 7-day cruise probably wouldn't be noticed or a deal-breaker if it was (for a large number of people). And if it is, it's up front so the consumer can choose whether or not they want to book at that price.

 

Instead, they're doing these very visible piecemeal changes which marginally increase revenue, but also lead to some blowback. If I don't know that I'm paying $5 more per day than I may have before because it was baked into the cake, Id be hard pressed to complain. But if I book and, after the fact, you try to claw $5 out of me in weird/annoying ways, it may provoke an adverse response.

Edited July 17, 2015 by Cauzneffct

[Sea saw 56]

I monitor these threads awaiting my next (September) cruise. I've gotten the idea that bar service and specialty restaurant service/availability may have declined due to the amount of people with UBP and UDP. I really hate the thought of that, worse than rising fees. Hopefully they will use the extra $$ to have enough staff to serve their customers. Paying more and getting less could be a deal breaker, even for loyal customers like us!

[Cruise4Real]

I just don't believe it is going to the servers and stewards. I would hope it is, they deserve to earn more money. But I strongly doubt it.

 

I think it's a pretty easy "thought experiment" to suggest that at least in one area, servers are almost certainly NOT getting all (or probably even most) of the auto-gratuities. And that is beverage service -- the bars.

 

Consider that for many bar wait staff in land-based U.S. venues, staff receive minimal base pay, which I believe for tipped workers hasn't changed in decades and is just a few bucks an hour. The bulk of their compensation comes from tipping. My guess is that most bar wait staff receive somewhere between 15 and 20 percent on bar tabs, which is similar to NCL's 18 percent auto-gratuity.

 

Given that NCL's bar prices are at least comparable to U.S. land venues, if not higher, that suggests that the average U.S. bar worker gets about the same in gratuities, per drink, as the folks on board NCL ships. And as we all know and have seen, those folks on NCL work HARD! The bars seem busy all the time, every day, at least as busy as any bar I've ever been to in the States.

 

Even if NCL pays their bar wait staff exactly nothing for a base pay and they ONLY receive the auto-gratuities, they would have to be pulling in a similar amount as U.S. land-based workers (especially given all the "big tippers" who supposedly add a buck or two to the already generous 18 percent auto-grat). Which would make them exceptionally well-paid among all the other workers on board. Which I think is very unlikely -- why would bar wait staff be so much better compensated than room stewards or restaurant waiters?

 

Given all this, it seems HIGHLY LIKELY that NCL uses a good portion of the auto-grats they collect from beverage service for other things. I think there's a good reason NCL calls it a "gratuity and beverage service charge," because a substantial portion of what they collect with that 18 percent charge is likely going elsewhere.

[Cruising Golfer]

It's like my mom would say... It's always something!!! :cool:

[punkincc]

You just don't get it... The money is for the servers and stewards and the others.

As for higher prices, have you seen the price of eggs??? :cool:

 

How many employees do you know in any business that get two wage increases in less than 6 months? I find it hard to believe that the staff are finding all this money in their paychecks. Especially since they are called "service" charges, just like at hotels, and we all know where that money goes, and it's not to staff.

 

As far as the 18% add on at specialty restaurants, it's never been made clear by NCL that the whole 18% goes to the servers there ( some will try to tell you that the statement in the DSC section of the website where it states that the DSC covers servers in the MDR and other staff means that the specialty servers are excluded from the DSC, but no where does it say that explicitly ). It is called a "gratuity and Service charge". Why did they not just call it a "gratuity"? Because adding the term "service" charge means that NCL can take 99.9% if they want and add .1 to the pool for the servers if they want to.

 

Prices and wages do go up for most things at some point and it is understandable that in order to keep pace, a business must raise prices periodically. Probably historically, the DSC has been increased on all mainstream cruise lines every few years, in fact they all just did one at the same time NCL did their first a few months ago. But 2 in 5 months?? Plus charging for room service, and trying to capitalize on that by banning takeout, plus a la carte restaurants, plus increases in excursion prices and I'm sure I've missed a few. This is not just to keep pace with inflation but a systematic effort to squeeze every cent it can out of the passenger. And we know this is true because FDR said so. All the more unpalatable because they keep trying to insult our intelligence with the excuses ( like the change to a la carte is because Andy S. felt bad for those light eaters like his wife:rolleyes:).

[hypercafe]

On my last NCL trip on the Breakaway on night the buffet had meatloaf at the carving station, give me a break. Beside the fact that in that very large buffet there was just one at times with monster lines. Since the fares have gone up with room service fees and tips going up twice. We are going in October so Frank, you got your money, WERE IS THE BEEF?

 

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