HAL no longer requires formal dress

[DeeniEncinitas]

Me too.

 

HI Cruz Chic!

Glad your cruise went well. Loved reading your posts!

Hope you are doing well.

Just wanted to chime in.

Watching Carnival Conquest leave FLT. Saw Western dam leave.

 

Take care and stay healthy Cruz!

Denise:)

[JPH814]

Seems we three are on the same wave length. :)

 

 

Me too - er- four!

[Topsham]

Do some restaurants require jacket at inner? You bet some do! I know one in New York. The owner .... see in the photo... if you even step through the door without a jacket on he will point and say, "Out!" Robbie was at one time the Maitr'd in the famed ocean liner ILE DE FRANCE. The second photo was a 'regular' at the restaurant at lunch, four days a week for twenty years. Well, when not cruising with HAL. I was introduced to be Veau D'Or about twelve years ago. In conversation with the owner's daughter Kathryn , now the owner, she told that she owned a painting of her 'ex' who had a yacht called 'PAGET'. One thing went o to another... the painting was moved from the house and now hangs in the restaurant. The painting was commissioned about 1985 by Mr John Hinson Young III in Bermuda. John Young is my uncle. He gave the painting to the owners of the yacht. I had no idea that my aunt and uncle knew the restaurant. It was one of their favourites. John Young's hotel in Bermuda was the Lantana in Somerset. That hotel back in the 50s and 60s... dinner... jacket & tie.... of course!

[sail7seas]

Me too - er- four!

 

Nice ..... happy you and Topsham are 'aboard'. :)

 

[POA1]

This comment is offensive and condescending. Posting of insults should not be acceptable to the monitors of this thread.

Complimenting the way passengers are dressed is offensive to you? You'd absolutely freak out if you travel with us. My wife always tells people when they look nice.

[RocketMan275]

So what defines a five star restaurant? What makes a difference between a high end steakhouse and an Outback? Or a fine italian restaurant and an Olive Garden?

 

I would argue that the MDR is closer to the former than the latter. The service is attentive; the menu is and interesting ; the execution Is as good as could be expected given the volume.

 

Is it " five star" ? No, but it certainly is above average. And once or twice a week it attempts to be more. And if the cruise line requires that people respond with above McDonalds attire - as many comparable land- based restaurants do - it is obnoxious not to comply.

 

Sure, it is above average but your argument was that it was analogous to a five star restaurant. I'm not at all sure how one defines "McDonald's attire". I've worn a suit in McDonalds when enroute to a business meeting.

[JPH814]

Sure, it is above average but your argument was that it was analogous to a five star restaurant. I'm not at all sure how one defines "McDonald's attire". I've worn a suit in McDonalds when enroute to a business meeting.

 

 

I never said it was a five-star restaurant.

 

I asked you if you would wear shorts into a five-star restaurant. You have not answered. But your logic says that you would have no problem doing that… Why should what you wear affect anyone else. it's your dinner, you are paying for it. Isn't that your position?

 

Or do you feel that the owner of the restaurant has the right to establish a dress code. And by choosing to go into that restaurant you should agree to adhere to the dress code.

 

Pick a side my friend.

[RocketMan275]

:confused: What is offensive? I didn't read that post until you quoted it but it is a simple statement that shouldn't offend anyone unless they consider themselves to be uncivilized or inconsiderate. I didn't see the poster directed the comment at anyone specific, did they?

 

I also think it would have been fine if you had posted the entire quote and not snipped it without indicating you had taken out some of what was written.

 

I just went back and found the whole quote:

 

 

The implication is that if one does not wear a jacket, then one is uncivilized and inconsiderate. To carry it further, since HAL does not require a jacket, then HAL allows uncivilized and inconsiderate persons in the MDR so it is also insulting to HAL.

[sail7seas]

You are putting words into someone's mouth that they did not say.

[POA1]

The implication is that if one does not wear a jacket, then one is uncivilized and inconsiderate. To carry it further, since HAL does not require a jacket, then HAL allows uncivilized and inconsiderate persons in the MDR so it is also insulting to HAL.

That's your interpretation. It's not what the post said. The poster complimented her fellow passengers. There was nothing negative. I'm glad that someone reported from a ship that they're currently on, and that they felt that people looked nice.

[The-Inside-Cabin]

I think I am correct in assuming that no one here suggests that wearing swimwear to the MDR would be appropriate. If that is the case, then the issue isn't whether or not there should be a dress code, but what the dress code should be.

 

Once you concede a dress code -at some level- is appropriate - then the argument that it is ok to not comply with a particular dress code that you don't like is inconsistent. The " anti dress code" logic often used - how does what I wear affect you - could be equally applied to someone who wants to wear swimwear in the MDR.

 

If you want to argue for no dress codes anywhere - fine - but arguing that my personal dress code is fine and HALs is not seems silly. HAL owns the restaurant so they get to set the rules. Everyone should comply or go to a restaurant where the dress code matches their personal preference.

Edited November 28, 2015 by The-Inside-Cabin

[RocketMan275]

I never said it was a five-star restaurant.

 

I asked you if you would wear shorts into a five-star restaurant. You have not answered. But your logic says that you would have no problem doing that… Why should what you wear affect anyone else. it's your dinner, you are paying for it. Isn't that your position?

 

Or do you feel that the owner of the restaurant has the right to establish a dress code. And by choosing to go into that restaurant you should agree to adhere to the dress code.

 

Pick a side my friend.

 

Actually, you asked lawduck: "And do you feel the same way about land based restaurants? Would you walk into a five star restaurant in shorts?"

 

I only pointed out that this was a false analogy since no one considers the MDR to be a five star restaurant. In fact, you also admitted the same. So, why did try to make that comparison?

 

But, to answer your question, I wouldn't go to a five star restaurant. I decline invitations to formal occasions.

 

And, no, my position is not 'it's my dinner and I'm paying for it'. You'll not be able to find a post of my where I advocated ignoring the dress code. You can find multiple posts where I have criticized the dress code, but none where I've said it should be ignored.

 

And, yes, I do believe the owner has the right to set the dress code. I also believe customers have the right to criticize the code when they think it should be changed.

[RocketMan275]

I think I am correct in assuming that no one here suggests that wearing swimwear to the MDR would be appropriate. If that is the case, then the issue isn't whether or not there should be a dress code, but what the dress code should be.

 

Once you concede a dress code -at some level- is appropriate - then the argument that it is ok to not comply with a particular dress code that you don't like is inconsistent. The " anti dress code" logic often used - how does what I wear affect you - could be equally applied to someone who wants to wear swimwear in the MDR.

 

If you want to argue for no dress codes anywhere - fine - but arguing that my personal dress code is fine and HALs is not seems silly. HAL owns the restaurant so they get to set the rules. Everyone should comply or go to a restaurant where the dress code matches their personal preference.

 

"How does what I wear affect you?" is more than just an anti-dress code argument. It is also an argument against those who insist that others should dress in a certain way because it will make them feel better. Why is the 'ambiance' of those who wish to dress up more important than the 'ambiance' of those who prefer a less formal attire?

[Storylady]

We just came back from a seven day Mexico Cruise. Generally, the majority of the passengers dressed in Formal and Gala Wear for the evening. In fact, there were quite a few gentlemen wearing tuxedoes. One gentleman wore a kilt and jacket. And there were lots of young women wearing "Formal Gowns" which I haven't seen recently on our cruises.

 

There was one older man who came to the dining room on a smart casual night in shorts. Was told that he couldn't come into the dining room in shorts. He made a scene and then totally ignored the staff and entered the dining room anyway. I wonder if that same man would wear shorts to a fancy restaurant and ignore the staff telling him he couldn't enter. My bet is that he would have worn slacks in the first place.

[RocketMan275]

That's your interpretation. It's not what the post said. The poster complimented her fellow passengers. There was nothing negative. I'm glad that someone reported from a ship that they're currently on, and that they felt that people looked nice.

 

You are putting words into someone's mouth that they did not say.

 

It's not what OP said, but the implications of what OP said. I'm willing to listen to your argument that OP did not imply that the passengers were "civilized" and "considerate" because they had on jackets but how else do you interpret the statement? If they were "civilized" and "considerate" because they had on jackets, then what would one assume about those who did not have on jackets?

[cruz chic]

HI Cruz Chic!

Glad your cruise went well. Loved reading your posts!

Hope you are doing well.

Just wanted to chime in.

Watching Carnival Conquest leave FLT. Saw Western dam leave.

 

Take care and stay healthy Cruz!

Denise:)

 

Good to "see" you. I haven't seen you around in a while.

[cruz chic]

It's not what OP said, but the implications of what OP said. I'm willing to listen to your argument that OP did not imply that the passengers were "civilized" and "considerate" because they had on jackets but how else do you interpret the statement? If they were "civilized" and "considerate" because they had on jackets, then what would one assume about those who did not have on jackets?

 

What does the original poster (op) have to do with the perfectly fine comments that Ithaca girl made :confused:?

[Topsham]

What does the original poster (op) have to do with the perfectly fine comments that Ithaca girl made :confused:?

 

 

 

Nothing.

[RocketMan275]

What does the original poster (op) have to do with the perfectly fine comments that Ithaca girl made :confused:?

 

Sorry, OP was meant to refer to Ithaca Girl's comments. I apologize for using op instead of IG.

Edited November 29, 2015 by RocketMan275

[Topsham]

There was one older man who came to the dining room on a smart casual night in shorts. Was told that he couldn't come into the dining room in shorts. He made a scene and then totally ignored the staff and entered the dining room anyway. I wonder if that same man would wear shorts to a fancy restaurant and ignore the staff telling him he couldn't enter. My bet is that he would have worn slacks in the first place.

 

 

 

I've worn shorts my whole life. I wore them to school. Wore them to work. Have worn them to church. I've worn them in best restaurants, formal functions and I've worn them in MDR on many ships with many cruise liens also.

 

The difference? Bermuda shorts, knee high 'golf hose', long sleeve shirts, tile and blazer. Always keep Bermuda passport handy just in case a cruise ship maitr'd does not know the national dress.

[JPH814]

Actually, you asked lawduck: "And do you feel the same way about land based restaurants? Would you walk into a five star restaurant in shorts?"

 

 

 

I only pointed out that this was a false analogy since no one considers the MDR to be a five star restaurant. In fact, you also admitted the same. So, why did try to make that comparison?

 

 

 

But, to answer your question, I wouldn't go to a five star restaurant. I decline invitations to formal occasions.

 

 

 

And, no, my position is not 'it's my dinner and I'm paying for it'. You'll not be able to find a post of my where I advocated ignoring the dress code. You can find multiple posts where I have criticized the dress code, but none where I've said it should be ignored.

 

 

 

And, yes, I do believe the owner has the right to set the dress code. I also believe customers have the right to criticize the code when they think it should be changed.

 

 

Then we agree. While I bemoan the changing of the dress code, at this point I only want the current dress code to be enforced. It is the people who feel that the dress code does not need to apply to them that I criticize.

[cruz chic]

Sorry, OP was meant to refer to Ithaca Girl's comments. I apologize for using op instead of IG.

 

Thx for clarifying.

[JPH814]

"How does what I wear affect you?" is more than just an anti-dress code argument. It is also an argument against those who insist that others should dress in a certain way because it will make them feel better. Why is the 'ambiance' of those who wish to dress up more important than the 'ambiance' of those who prefer a less formal attire?

 

 

Because the ambiance is defined by the owner of the restaurant.

[POA1]

It's not what OP said, but the implications of what OP said. I'm willing to listen to your argument that OP did not imply that the passengers were "civilized" and "considerate" because they had on jackets but how else do you interpret the statement? If they were "civilized" and "considerate" because they had on jackets, then what would one assume about those who did not have on jackets?

There was nothing implied in what Ithaca Girl said. It is certainly possible, if you have thin skin, to read more into it than is actually there. However, it's pretty clear that not everyone feels that way.

 

If we were sitting at a table and some of our table mates told other table mates - not us - that they looked nice, lovely, sophisticated, dashing, debonair, stunning and handsome, we'd be likely to throw in an add on compliment*. Some other people might feel that they were slighted and cry out, "Woe be unto me! My petite and delicate feelings have been hurt." Then they'd do that pouty lip thing and say, "Where's my compliment?? I am offended." Feeling bad, we'd offer them some crayons and a coloring book. But not a compliment. Some things need to be earned.

 

*It would have to be something like, "You look positively radiant!" because our table mates would have already used most of the good adjectives, and it's important to be original, ** at least as far as I'm concerned.

 

**Are you implying that I'm unoriginal and incapable of creative thought?? Just for that, I'm going to break your crayons!

Edited November 29, 2015 by POA1

[cruz chic]

There was nothing implied in what Ithaca Girl said. It is certainly possible, if you have thin skin, to read more into it than is actually there. However, it's pretty clear that not everyone feels that way.

 

If we were sitting at a table and some of our table mates told other table mates - not us - that they looked nice, lovely, sophisticated, dashing, debonair, stunning and handsome, we'd be likely to throw in an add on compliment*. Some other people might feel that they were slighted and cry out, "Woe be unto me! My petite and delicate feelings have been hurt." Then they'd do that pouty lip thing and say, "Where's my compliment?? I am offended." Feeling bad, we'd offer them some crayons and a coloring book. But not a compliment. Some things need to be earned.

 

*It would have to be something like, "You look positively radiant!" because our table mates would have already used most of the good adjectives, and it's important to be original, ** at least as far as I'm concerned.

 

**Are you implying that I'm unoriginal and incapable of creative thought?? Just for that, I'm going to break your crayons!

 

Lol :D.