Jacket Off At Dinner Precedence?

[balf]

I recent formal/informal optional night.

 

 

 

Roy

 

 

Is this an addition to the dress codes? Never seen one of these on a Cunard ship.

 

David.

[branston boy]

Hello.A prize I would suggest to Mr Toad for beating everyone else to the key board.

Rodger.

[balf]

 

 

 

 

 

Those two words. Common Sense.

 

 

Common Sense indeed. I've sailed many nights in hot climates where I have cursed the rigid dress codes. Common sense would be to accept that if it's too hot for formal dress and tux jackets are being removed on seating, the code for that evening is the wrong one. An "informal" code where jackets are not required would be vastly preferable to guys sitting jacket off wearing dress shirts.

 

David.

[rafinmd]

Is this an addition to the dress codes? Never seen one of these on a Cunard ship.

 

David.

 

Snippet of the October 15 Daily Programme:

 

 

Full version here:

 

https://getawaysfrom21044.files.wordpress.com/2015/10/programme15.pdf

 

Roy

[Underwatr]

The formal/informal night was owing to some unexpected circumstance, wasn't it?

 

They should simply have listed it as Informal. One can wear formal wear any night one chooses.

[BigMac1953]

The formal/informal night was owing to some unexpected circumstance, wasn't it?

 

They should simply have listed it as Informal. One can wear formal wear any night one chooses.

 

On 15 trips, I've never seen that.

 

What were the unexpected circumstances?

 

Stewart

[Underwatr]

On 15 trips, I've never seen that.

 

What were the unexpected circumstances?

 

Stewart

A little more info here: http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showpost.php?p=48027456&postcount=26

 

It sounds like an effort to appease some who were disappointed that the order of formal nights on that crossing had been shifted for some reason. I hope it wasn't an experiment regarding "optional formal" nights but it seemed to be a last minute announcement.

Edited October 21, 2015 by Underwatr

[fantasy51]

I've heard this argument before. But the thing is, the guy who just bunged on a jacket that may or may not fit isn't likely to have nicely tailored/fitted shirt and trousers. So if he takes of the jacket he isn't likely to look any better.

 

On my last cruise I travelled with a friend who had beautifully tailored shirts (jacket-style) and trousers - but because of the dress code had to cover them with a non-matching jacket on Informal nights. He passed the code but did not look as good as he would have looked without the jacket.

 

There's an exception to every rule! :D

 

However, here's a query. After seeing just what the dress code meant in practice, he decided he'd better not try wearing the suit below. He did not want the embarrassment of being turned back at the door. Does this suit pass the Informal dress code? It has a jacket; it's just that the jacket has no sleeves.

[pepperrn]

On my last cruise I travelled with a friend who had beautifully tailored shirts (jacket-style) and trousers - but because of the dress code had to cover them with a non-matching jacket on Informal nights ...

Hi fantasy51,

 

As he knew about the dress-code before boarding I am surprised that he didn't avail himself of beautifully tailored jackets that matched his beautifully tailored shirts. That way he would have avoided the sartorial miss-match?

 

Or conversely, having chosen his jackets, he didn't think to also pack shirts that matched them... ready for the informal nights?

 

Seems a little odd to choose clothes you know won't match up "on the night"? But maybe that's just me, thinking about things in advance of packing, rather than be surprised at the contents when I open the suitcase in the cabin; "Now what can I wear with this?" :D

 

Best wishes :)

Edited October 21, 2015 by pepperrn

[robbie_3]

Hi Fantasy 51, I think your friend looks very smart indeed although he might experience some problems wearing this as a jacket into dinner as it is a garment without sleeves, according to Colllins Dictionary a jacket is "a short coat, esp one that is hip-length and has a front opening and sleeves."

Edited October 21, 2015 by robbie_3

[pepperrn]

Hi Fantasy 51, I think your friend looks very smart indeed although he might experience some problems wearing this as a jacket as it is a garment without sleeves, according to Colllins Dictionary a jacket is "a short coat, esp one that is hip-length and has a front opening and sleeves"

Hi robbie_3,

 

Thanks for that :) , I'd go along with your thoughts (and Collins), you have it about right :) .

 

I think that the guy in the photo is well dressed (esp suits his age; certainly wouldn't suit mine!). At most venues he'd fit right in no problem, or stand out from the crowd (but in a very good way).

 

My concern, as regards Cunard's "jacket code", and sleeveless jackets would be only this: If someone was to wear a shorter version of the one shown in the photo, then when does it stop being a sleeveless jacket... and start being a waistcoat (vest)?

 

(Wasn't there a question recently on another thread, someone wanting to wear a waistcoat to dinner, sans jacket?)

 

Thanks again.

Edited October 21, 2015 by pepperrn

[fantasy51]

Hi fantasy51,

 

As he knew about the dress-code before boarding I am surprised that he didn't avail himself of beautifully tailored jackets that matched his beautifully tailored shirts. That way he would have avoided the sartorial miss-match?

 

 

Sometimes, Pepperrn, it depends what you have in your wardrobe. Why go out and buy new clothes just for one cruise, if you know they will not suit your lifestyle at home?

 

Also, ever the optimist and with a busy lifestyle, he may have forgotten what I'd told him about the dress code, especially as we'd discussed it a couple of months before he packed! ;)

[fantasy51]

Hi Fantasy 51, I think your friend looks very smart indeed although he might experience some problems wearing this as a jacket into dinner as it is a garment without sleeves, according to Colllins Dictionary a jacket is "a short coat, esp one that is hip-length and has a front opening and sleeves."

 

Thank you for this, Robbie, and for your kind words. You have sent me to my own dictionary. Interestingly, the Oxford dictionary says 'typically having sleeves and a fastening down the front'. Now, to my mind as an ex-editor and a grammatical pedant, that word 'typically' leaves the whole question open as to whether or not sleeves are essential. So too does your definition with the word 'especially'. I have also read online that the jacket originated from the tunic. Do tunics always have sleeves?

 

This is a purely intellectual discussion, and he won't try to wear this sleeveless jacket on a Cunard ship because I recognise that dress codes and dictionary definitions are not the same.

 

Now I have something to tease my brain about for the next hour or so!! :D

[milamber]

Part of the problem in trying to look good with Cunard's dress code, at least for ordinary mortals, is the luggage restrictions on the flights.

 

I have a number of jackets in different shades and materials, all of which need a different set of shirts/trousers/shoes/waistcoats to go with them and adds up to a lot of weight, especially if I take my black tie gear as well for formal nights.

 

We have a longer cruise coming up in January and I'm having to seriously consider taking just a couple of suits plus some shirts and ties and one pair of formal shoes, instead of separates and black tie. That would be suit without a tie for informal/suit with tie for formal.

 

I'd love the opportunity to dress up a bit more and wear stuff that doesn't often get an outing, but 23kg doesn't give much wiggle room. If there wasn't jacket requirement on the informal nights it would make life much easier, from a packing point of view.

Edited October 21, 2015 by milamber

[robbie_3]

Thank you pepperrn. I think that well dressed man in the picture has what would normally be regarded as a waistcoat by definition of it being sleeveless

buttoned and waist length. Anything shorter to the hips may be considered to be a vest [Collins.]

 

Fantasy51, agreed, the insertion of the words typically and especially undoubtedly leaves some room for interpretation and many a lawyer has made their money out of arguing such finer points. :)

[jimmybean]

Sometimes, Pepperrn, it depends what you have in your wardrobe. Why go out and buy new clothes just for one cruise, if you know they will not suit your lifestyle at home?

 

And, if the lifestyle at home is to walk around barefooted and have breakfast in a bathrobe ??? Would that be an acceptable way to dress in public areas on a Cunard ship?

 

Conforming to the Cunard dress code (male or female) isn't that difficult. Dressing on the ship needed match, exactly, how one dresses at home.

 

DH doesn't wear his tux, at home, hanging out around the house.

 

Respectfully, I do not understand the argument, fantasy51, that if a garment isn't part of one's everyday at-home wardrobe one should avoid purchasing it.

 

At home, our clothes are in a closet and in dresser drawers. When we travel we pack in suitcases. We don't use those suitcases to store clothing at home. We purchased those suitcases for when we travel. They serve no purpose at home.

 

I believe most of us do purchase things, just for traveling, without the expectation that those things need be equally as useful when at home.

 

But, if it really will be just "one cruise" and buying additional clothes is really out of the question and clothes in one's possession don't comply with Cunard's dress code, then why not just book the "one cruise" with a different cruise line? Why should the solution be abandonment of Cunard's dress code?

[robbie_3]

:) fantasy51, What a very interesting point you make regarding the tunic, a sleeveless garb, if the jacket is indeed a modern interpretation. Perhaps with your permission to indulge we may look back further and advocate more traditional Greek or Roman tunics or maybe perhaps prehistoric fur costume. Of course I jest, I have never frankly looked good in prehistoric wear, neither would I like to frighten the Mtr'D. Something further to ponder on, preferably with a good port in hand:)

Edited October 21, 2015 by robbie_3

[pepperrn]

Part of the problem in trying to look good with Cunard's dress code, at least for ordinary mortals, is the luggage restrictions on the flights.

I have a number of jackets in different shades and materials, all of which need a different set of shirts/trousers/shoes/waistcoats to go with them and adds up to a lot of weight, especially if I take my black tie gear as well for formal nights. We have a longer cruise coming up in January and I'm having to seriously consider taking just a couple of suits plus some shirts and ties and one pair of formal shoes, instead of separates and black tie. That would be suit without a tie for informal/suit with tie for formal. I'd love the opportunity to dress up a bit more and wear stuff that doesn't often get an outing, but 23kg doesn't give much wiggle room. If there wasn't jacket requirement on the informal nights it would make life much easier, from a packing point of view.

Hi milamber,

 

I hope you don't mind me asking you, for clarification.

 

I've not yet done a "fly-cruise" but understand, from posts here, that there is a strictly enforced "one suitcase, not over 23kg" rule on the charter flights that Cunard use. There is no opportunity to purchase "excess baggage"? Is this (or something close) in fact the case (no pun intended).

 

I ask obviously in the event that I book a "fly-cruise" myself in the future.

 

When I've crossed on QM2 and flown back to the UK I've always taken two cases (both under regulation weight of course).

Normally I've had to pay for the second case (once I splashed out on a better seat, and two cases were automatically allowed).

 

The cost of the "excess baggage" for the second case was nothing compared with the price of the fare for the crossing and flight of course, hence me ignoring the "one suitcase allowed for free" rule, but this was with a scheduled flight, not charter, hence my question above.

 

My understanding (which may be wrong of course) is that there is no restriction on taking two (or even three) cases on scheduled flights, you simply have to pay for them. But the same rule does not apply to charter flights.

 

Thanks for your help.

[Host Hattie]

 

(Wasn't there a question recently on another thread, someone wanting to wear a waistcoat to dinner, sans jacket?)

 

Thanks again.

 

I don't remember that and I'm sure I would have if had caused as much discussion as this !

Were you thinking of this thread about wanting to remove a jacket for dancing ?

[pepperrn]

And, if the lifestyle at home is to walk around barefooted and have breakfast in a bathrobe ??? Would that be an acceptable way to dress in public areas on a Cunard ship? Conforming to the Cunard dress code (male or female) isn't that difficult. Dressing on the ship needed match, exactly, how one dresses at home. DH doesn't wear his tux, at home, hanging out around the house. Respectfully, I do not understand the argument, fantasy51, that if a garment isn't part of one's everyday at-home wardrobe one should avoid purchasing it. At home, our clothes are in a closet and in dresser drawers. When we travel we pack in suitcases. We don't use those suitcases to store clothing at home. We purchased those suitcases for when we travel. They serve no purpose at home. I believe most of us do purchase things, just for traveling, without the expectation that those things need be equally as useful when at home.

But, if it really will be just "one cruise" and buying additional clothes is really out of the question and clothes in one's possession don't comply with Cunard's dress code, then why not just book the "one cruise" with a different cruise line? Why should the solution be abandonment of Cunard's dress code?

Very well explained jimmybean, great post, thank you.

 

(I have clothes, in a separate wardrobe, that I usually wear on board, and very infrequently on land. Indeed, I bought most of them expressly to wear on board. I have a couple of shoe-boxes that contain all the things I regularly need on the ship, but not usually at home (accessories for formal wear, travel-size toiletries, Cunard pins, highlighter pen etc) All this makes packing simpler ;) ).

 

Thank you again :) .

[pepperrn]

I don't remember that and I'm sure I would have if had caused as much discussion as this !

Were you thinking of this thread about wanting to remove a jacket for dancing ?

Hi Hattie, I think you may be right... well found!

 

I've got things confused (not for the first time), dancing, not dining! :o .

 

So sorry, my memory :o !

[3rdGenCunarder]

Hi milamber,

 

I hope you don't mind me asking you, for clarification.

 

I've not yet done a "fly-cruise" but understand, from posts here, that there is a strictly enforced "one suitcase, not over 23kg" rule on the charter flights that Cunard use. There is no opportunity to purchase "excess baggage"? Is this (or something close) in fact the case (no pun intended).

 

I ask obviously in the event that I book a "fly-cruise" myself in the future.

 

When I've crossed on QM2 and flown back to the UK I've always taken two cases (both under regulation weight of course).

Normally I've had to pay for the second case (once I splashed out on a better seat, and two cases were automatically allowed).

 

The cost of the "excess baggage" for the second case was nothing compared with the price of the fare for the crossing and flight of course, hence me ignoring the "one suitcase allowed for free" rule, but this was with a scheduled flight, not charter, hence my question above.

 

My understanding (which may be wrong of course) is that there is no restriction on taking two (or even three) cases on scheduled flights, you simply have to pay for them. But the same rule does not apply to charter flights.

 

Thanks for your help.

 

Although there are some flights with severe luggage restrictions, there is the Cunard "White Star" luggage service. I've used them three or four times. Usually US to Soton, but this last time we "splashed out" on better plane seats so we took the excess bags with us on the plane and shipped them via White Star form London to Soton, which was easier (no customs paperwork) and less expensive than US to Soton.

[pepperrn]

Although there are some flights with severe luggage restrictions, there is the Cunard "White Star" luggage service. I've used them three or four times. Usually US to Soton, but this last time we "splashed out" on better plane seats so we took the excess bags with us on the plane and shipped them via White Star form London to Soton, which was easier (no customs paperwork) and less expensive than US to Soton.

Hi 3rdGenCunarder,

 

Thank you for this, I confess I'd momentarily forgotten about the "White Star" luggage service (which I think won't deliver to every port?). I've recommended this service in the past to friends who were touring America and Canada after a QM2 crossing, so should have remembered! Thanks for reminding me :) .

 

Best wishes.

[Host Hattie]

The only time we tried to deal with the luggage restrictions using "White Star" luggage, we stupidly shipped all our formal wear to New York ahead of the

QM2 Christmas Caribbean cruise.

Unfortunately the delivery driver couldn't find the ship (yes, really !) and nobody got their White Star luggage. Mr HH borrowed a formal suit from Cunard but the selection for women was pitiful and they didn't have anything in my size. It's the only time I've felt underdressed. By the time the luggage caught up with us in Tortola several of the formal nights were over.

[fantasy51]

And, if the lifestyle at home is to walk around barefooted and have breakfast in a bathrobe ??? Would that be an acceptable way to dress in public areas on a Cunard ship?

 

Respectfully, I do not understand the argument, fantasy51, that if a garment isn't part of one's everyday at-home wardrobe one should avoid purchasing it.

 

Respectfully, Jimmybean, I think you have taken the argument too far. If you read back, you will see that we were talking about smart clothes and good dressing, not the lowered standards of a bathrobe. We were talking about matching clothes. I was responding to Pepperrn's suggestion that he could have gone out and bought a couple of jackets for the cruise, clothes that I know he would not have worn again.

 

As one who has spent my whole life operating from a strict budget, I know the importance of spending wisely. I would never advocate spending money on clothes to be worn only once or twice. (No fear of that with my own cruise wardrobe. I look forward to many more cruises. ;) ) I also believe one should not be shunted off to another cruise line because of lack of money to spend on clothes. In such a case one makes do and chooses the most suitable, as did my friend. He kept to the dress code, even though it meant dressing in a style that is not usual for him.