Jacket Off At Dinner Precedence?

[robbie_3]

Sometimes it depends what you have in your wardrobe. Why go out and buy new clothes just for one cruise, if you know they will not suit your lifestyle at home

 

I can understand the reluctance of some travellers to buy a whole host of clothes suitable only for cruising, especially if they are on a budget, of course it's lovely if people have funds to do both, I am sure many passengers brush off some of their best day wear and look equally as good on board a Cunard ship and a tuxedo can of course still be used for more local special occasions.

 

Regarding suitcases not used for storage, I would have to respectfully disagree, I have my ski wear in one, granted I may not look dashing walking into the dining room with a ski jacket and goggles on, and getting back on topic, I may have to take such a jacket off as I would most certainly perspire in one :)

Edited October 21, 2015 by robbie_3

[3rdGenCunarder]

The only time we tried to deal with the luggage restrictions using "White Star" luggage, we stupidly shipped all our formal wear to New York ahead of the

QM2 Christmas Caribbean cruise.

Unfortunately the delivery driver couldn't find the ship (yes, really !) and nobody got their White Star luggage. Mr HH borrowed a formal suit from Cunard but the selection for women was pitiful and they didn't have anything in my size. It's the only time I've felt underdressed. By the time the luggage caught up with us in Tortola several of the formal nights were over.

 

How awful!

 

We've had good luck with White Star. I love that DHL gives us a tracking number so that we know where the luggage is. The only (very slight) problem we ever had was the first time. The bag seemed to be in UK Customs for a very long time. I knew the paperwork was correct and that I hadn't packed anything that should be there, but I still worried that there might be some unforeseen problem. I called DHL and they said that Customs deals with luggage shipped ahead "when they get around to it," which is why the pickup in the US has to be two weeks before the cruise. Or maybe it's three weeks. I was worried for nothing, and the bag got to Soton well ahead of the sailing date.

[milamber]

Hi milamber,

 

I hope you don't mind me asking you, for clarification.

 

I've not yet done a "fly-cruise" but understand, from posts here, that there is a strictly enforced "one suitcase, not over 23kg" rule on the charter flights that Cunard use. There is no opportunity to purchase "excess baggage"? Is this (or something close) in fact the case (no pun intended).

 

I ask obviously in the event that I book a "fly-cruise" myself in the future.

 

When I've crossed on QM2 and flown back to the UK I've always taken two cases (both under regulation weight of course).

Normally I've had to pay for the second case (once I splashed out on a better seat, and two cases were automatically allowed).

 

The cost of the "excess baggage" for the second case was nothing compared with the price of the fare for the crossing and flight of course, hence me ignoring the "one suitcase allowed for free" rule, but this was with a scheduled flight, not charter, hence my question above.

 

My understanding (which may be wrong of course) is that there is no restriction on taking two (or even three) cases on scheduled flights, you simply have to pay for them. But the same rule does not apply to charter flights.

 

Thanks for your help.

 

Hi

 

We do normally get the opportunity to buy an extra case on a flight and that would be ideal. Unfortunately it's an odd flight this time and we can't increase the luggage allowances beyond our 23kg allocation. I can't say for certain about the differences between charter and scheduled flights, but think we have usually been allowed to increase the allowance, at cost, on both types, but guess that varies between airlines.

 

We have no problem at the start as we embark in Southampton - it's the flight back from Sydney that's the problem! We did look at shipping a case back, but it was so expensive it simply wasn't feasible.

 

Just going to have to learn to travel light :) It doesn't help that we will be freezing cold, then hot, then cold again, then warm, then hot.......lots of different clothes needed.

[ToadOfToadHall]

Hello.A prize I would suggest to Mr Toad for beating everyone else to the key board.

Rodger.

 

I like a prize !! What do I win ? :D

[Lakesregion]

On my last cruise I travelled with a friend who had beautifully tailored shirts (jacket-style) and trousers - but because of the dress code had to cover them with a non-matching jacket on Informal nights. He passed the code but did not look as good as he would have looked without the jacket.

 

There's an exception to every rule! :D

 

However, here's a query. After seeing just what the dress code meant in practice, he decided he'd better not try wearing the suit below. He did not want the embarrassment of being turned back at the door. Does this suit pass the Informal dress code? It has a jacket; it's just that the jacket has no sleeves.

 

No matter how much we all try to maintain a certain level of decorum and tradition, there will always be the few followed by the many that with their school infused sense of entitlement will attempt to follow the "its my money, my vacation and I will do what I want when I want" mantra.

 

We are left with the only solution once Cunard slides under the waves of down marketing that brings many of these folks to the line, is to ignore them, leave tables that have them and generally make our own ship within the ship. Even in Britannia this can be done.

[fantasy51]

Lakesregion, I think you have missed the point. We DID follow the dress code. My friend left countless clothes unworn in his wardrobe once he saw what the dress code meant in practice, rather than in writing.

 

My query was put here as a question from me. He made the choice not to wear that outfit.

 

Respectfully, while your point may be a valid one, I think you have chosen the wrong passage to quote, in order to make your point. ;)

[Lakesregion]

Lakesregion, I think you have missed the point. We DID follow the dress code. My friend left countless clothes unworn in his wardrobe once he saw what the dress code meant in practice, rather than in writing.

 

My query was put here as a question from me. He made the choice not to wear that outfit.

 

Respectfully, while your point may be a valid one, I think you have chosen the wrong passage to quote, in order to make your point. ;)

 

Sorry for the rant but I am a 1910 style gentleman trapped in the 21st century and living in an area where anything above jeans, a plaid shirt and work boots (pretty much the accepted attire on most lines these days) is thought to be putting on airs. So when I see so many trying to break down the final bastion of what I consider to be a civilized life style I do get a bit ranty.

[robbie_3]

Lakesregion, I for one would also like to reassure you that you will find us all pretty much singing from the same song sheet on this thread, there are some tongue in cheek comments, but we enjoy Cunard because of its tradition and the dress code, I don't think people would want to change these things that makes Cunard so special.:)

Edited October 21, 2015 by robbie_3

[jimmybean]

Respectfully, Jimmybean, I think you have taken the argument too far. If you read back, you will see that we were talking about smart clothes and good dressing, not the lowered standards of a bathrobe. We were talking about matching clothes. I was responding to Pepperrn's suggestion that he could have gone out and bought a couple of jackets for the cruise, clothes that I know he would not have worn again.

 

As one who has spent my whole life operating from a strict budget, I know the importance of spending wisely. I would never advocate spending money on clothes to be worn only once or twice. (No fear of that with my own cruise wardrobe. I look forward to many more cruises. ;) ) I also believe one should not be shunted off to another cruise line because of lack of money to spend on clothes. In such a case one makes do and chooses the most suitable, as did my friend. He kept to the dress code, even though it meant dressing in a style that is not usual for him.

 

I'm sorry if I misunderstood, fantasy51. I mean ill-will to no one.

 

Your friend obviously did the right thing, but you sound so unhappy about it.

 

My belief is in conformity with the stated dress code. My aim is not to criticize anyone's fashion-sense or spending habits.

 

Everyone is responsible to make their own choices about what is personally affordable. I believe in practicality and not living above one's means. Many, many Cunard CC posts have discussed the fact that formalwear can be purchased within modest budgetary constraints (e.g. from a consignment shop).

 

The fact is: on a Cunard ship, Cunard has set the dress code. For everyone. There isn’t a separate dress code for people who only plan on sailing once.

 

I understand there might be a feeling of wastefulness when purchasing clothing for a one-time wearing. But, look at brides! So many choose to buy a one-wearing white dress. I see this, however, as a personal choice.

 

If I heard a prospective-bride complaining about the wastefulness, or cost, of buying a wedding dress to wear only once, I would question if a simple courthouse wedding might not be a more agreeable choice. I would not be judgmental if someone chose to buy a one-time wedding dress, but there are other options for someone unhappy and complaining about buying one.

 

Suggesting someone might be happier on a different cruise line is in no way intended to be a put-down or any kind of a rejection of that person. I'm sorry if that was the way it sounded. DH and I have sailed on Princess, HAL, Royal Caribbean, Celebrity, and (once) on Carnival---as well as Cunard. There are good non-Cunard options for people who want to avoid Cunard’s dress code.

 

While I didn't come up with Cunard's dress code, but I find it very clearly stated and accommodating for a range of formalwear preferences. I am in disagreement only with the outliers, who want to dress outside the stated range--as in forgoing a jacket. Wearing a jacket is part of the stated dress code. ...As long as it is such, I believe people should conform.

 

I'm not sure about "taking it too far." Is there a difference between foregoing a jacket and arriving for breakfast in a bathrobe? Of course there is a difference. But each is also identical: non-compliance with Cunard’s dress code. It isn’t about what is egregious to you or egregious to me. I think it is harmful to the point of having rules, if they aren’t followed.

 

I don’t agree with the argument that it is better to have attractive (but non-dress-code compliant) clothing than less-attractive dress-code compliant apparel. I agree with the decision of your friend and hope he had a wonderful time.

 

PS I have seen people come to breakfast (Princess in the Caribbean) to the buffet in bathrobes. I have seen someone in the MDR on Celebrity wearing blue jeans to dinner. What Cunard has IS special. With no disrespect to anyone, I would like to see Cunard’s dress code preserved.

Edited October 22, 2015 by jimmybean

[pepperrn]

Hi We do normally get the opportunity to buy an extra case on a flight and that would be ideal. Unfortunately it's an odd flight this time and we can't increase the luggage allowances beyond our 23kg allocation. I can't say for certain about the differences between charter and scheduled flights, but think we have usually been allowed to increase the allowance, at cost, on both types, but guess that varies between airlines. We have no problem at the start as we embark in Southampton - it's the flight back from Sydney that's the problem! We did look at shipping a case back, but it was so expensive it simply wasn't feasible. Just going to have to learn to travel light :) It doesn't help that we will be freezing cold, then hot, then cold again, then warm, then hot.......lots of different clothes needed.

Hi milamber,

 

Thank you for taking the time to explain so clearly, I am grateful to you. I understand your problem with 23kg now, that is going to be tough, with all those changes of temperature. (I did a November QM2 Caribbean cruise New York-New York several years ago with three days in Manhattan pre-cruise. Foolishly, to save weight "I won't need a coat in the Caribbean", I didn't pack a "winter" coat, merely a lightweight waterproof outer jacket... was I ever cold in New York! (I know it gets a lot colder later in the winter) Lesson learnt!)

 

Thank you again, have a marvellous voyage :)

Edited October 22, 2015 by pepperrn

[Victoria2]

Respectfully, Jimmybean, I think you have taken the argument too far. If you read back, you will see that we were talking about smart clothes and good dressing, not the lowered standards of a bathrobe. We were talking about matching clothes. I was responding to Pepperrn's suggestion that he could have gone out and bought a couple of jackets for the cruise, clothes that I know he would not have worn again.

 

As one who has spent my whole life operating from a strict budget, I know the importance of spending wisely. I would never advocate spending money on clothes to be worn only once or twice. (No fear of that with my own cruise wardrobe. I look forward to many more cruises. ;) ) I also believe one should not be shunted off to another cruise line because of lack of money to spend on clothes. In such a case one makes do and chooses the most suitable, as did my friend. He kept to the dress code, even though it meant dressing in a style that is not usual for him.

 

I think what we have to realise, some of the comments on this thread are from those who are, quite rightly, committed to keeping Cunard's standards up but in doing that so rigidly, have no regard to the fact there are a few circumstances which the 21st century client who is paying a lot of money for their cruise, will not put up with on their hard earned holidays. I also detect a slight lack of compassion for those passengers who try their best to keep within the rules but might bend them slightly.

Some of Cunard's cruises are heavily discounted towards sailing date which means there are cabins available. If passengers who try their hardest to conform read this thread and decided not to continue due those who disapprove of their apparel and jumped ship to Holland America for example, I wonder who would take up the slack and what would their attitude be to Cunard guidelines. Those who have expressed disquiet on this board are an extremely small percentage of Cunard's passengers. The majority might give a fleeting glance to the very few who don't conform at all, and then get on with having a good time as it doesn't impact on their own enjoyment one jot.

 

I think the one casual evening we have had with Cunard was greeted with almost universal approval, for that night! Some gentlemen still wore a jacket, with or without a tie, but the majority went jacketless. Not something I'd like to see very often but it did happen and the world as we know it did not come to an end. :)

[Alanxx]

The idea of deviating from the dress code is one that should only be done if there is mainly universal acceptance.Not wearing a jacket may be seen as acceptable but then the next person may feel that if not wearing a jacket is acceptable then wearing a T shirt is acceptable followed by next person feeling that wearing a singlet is acceptable.Everything eventually leads to a complete free for all.If a rule is set then if you don't want to follow it then don't choose that supplier.

When I was in business I had a subsidiary company that made pies.It was in constant decline.When I looked at the product specification I found that the quantity of meat had declined from 70% to 45% over the previous 5 years and each time a reduction of 2% or 3% was made nobody had been able to make the case that such a small reduction would cause sales to fall.However when 70% was researched against 45% we had over 90% of people saying they would not buy the lower meat product.

The answer to formal/informal dress is not difficult.Work out what proportion of people agree with the current code and if the revenue from those people is sufficient then don't change it and accept that a small minority of people will not be happy.

[Tampa Girl]

I agree with keeping your jacket on: however what is the rule if ALL the men on your table wish to remove their jackets? Do we women say no?

 

This woman says NO. There is no excuse for blatantly thumbing your nose at the dress restrictions. If one doesn't want to abide by Cunard's requirements, there are other cruise lines which would be more appropriate.

[edwardh1]

does anyone know how Cunards business is doing? Why do I ask, because of all the talk about dress codes. Do really strict dress codes help or hurt them?

Is Cunards business growing, say over the last decade? , in comparison to the indusrty as a whole (which would recognize the effects of the 08-11 recession).

Or is it in decline, for whatever reason?

Or are their financials hidden in the owning company.

[BlueRiband]

does anyone know how Cunards business is doing? Why do I ask, because of all the talk about dress codes. Do really strict dress codes help or hurt them?

Is Cunards business growing, say over the last decade? , in comparison to the indusrty as a whole (which would recognize the effects of the 08-11 recession).

Or is it in decline, for whatever reason?

Or are their financials hidden in the owning company.

 

Carnival doesn't release the numbers on the individual corporate brands or on specific ships. Given that there are plans to make a huge financial investment into refreshing QM2, I'd speculate that she's running in the black.

[Tara Jane]

Very interesting reading

 

Here's a scenario - John Citizen and his wife are an older couple who have just started cruising, they have done a couple but not experienced. They are not aware of cruise critic. Sundays travel section of their newspaper shows a great deal on cunard. They jump on it, travel agent doesn't make them aware of the dress code, just say yes its a lovely ship and a great deal. All is fine and dandy, remember John and his wife are an older couple and don't use computers so unaware of cruise critic and the wonderful info obtained from cc.

They arrive and check in, having taken with them the usual "respectable" clothes that they would wear on other cruise lines for formal nights, but no long gowns nor tuxedo. Just a basic suit and tie for John and nice dress for Mrs Citizen.

How are you experienced cunard passengers going to react when they come to your dining table, perhaps somewhat underdressed to your standards? Will you leave the table? or will you accept them as fellow passengers happy to be on a ship enjoying what it has to offer them? Will they be made welcome in your conversation or will you make them feel inferior? Do John and his wife end up feeling they need to order room service every night and avoid the dining room because they were not educated enough for their first cunard cruise?

I have been on perhaps 15 or 16 cruises and not once has the travel agent, including when I have booked direct with the line ever mentioned dress requirements. Ok you may say common sense people should realise they need to "dress up" but "dress up " means different things to different people.

I am just curious as to what peoples responses will be to the above situation which I can easily see could occur.

[Underwatr]

Although a tux may be preferred a (dark) suit &tie is fine for formal night. And the pre-voyage documentation still gets delivered in hard copy and it's clear about dress vodes.

[Tara Jane]

Underwatr - thank you for your reply. Never having received a hard copy of dress code info I have been concerned for first timers. Good that cunard spell it out clearly.

[Lakesregion]

Very interesting reading

 

Here's a scenario - John Citizen and his wife are an older couple who have just started cruising, they have done a couple but not experienced. They are not aware of cruise critic. Sundays travel section of their newspaper shows a great deal on cunard. They jump on it, travel agent doesn't make them aware of the dress code, just say yes its a lovely ship and a great deal. All is fine and dandy, remember John and his wife are an older couple and don't use computers so unaware of cruise critic and the wonderful info obtained from cc.

They arrive and check in, having taken with them the usual "respectable" clothes that they would wear on other cruise lines for formal nights, but no long gowns nor tuxedo. Just a basic suit and tie for John and nice dress for Mrs Citizen.

How are you experienced cunard passengers going to react when they come to your dining table, perhaps somewhat underdressed to your standards? Will you leave the table? or will you accept them as fellow passengers happy to be on a ship enjoying what it has to offer them? Will they be made welcome in your conversation or will you make them feel inferior? Do John and his wife end up feeling they need to order room service every night and avoid the dining room because they were not educated enough for their first cunard cruise?

I have been on perhaps 15 or 16 cruises and not once has the travel agent, including when I have booked direct with the line ever mentioned dress requirements. Ok you may say common sense people should realise they need to "dress up" but "dress up " means different things to different people.

I am just curious as to what peoples responses will be to the above situation which I can easily see could occur.

 

You answered your own question. Mr. brought along a suit and tie which fits the Cunard dress code for formal nights and Mrs. brought along a nice dress so she also fits. No problem and being an older couple Mr. most likely understands the proper thing to do is not take off his coat in the dining room.

[pepperrn]

Although a tux may be preferred a (dark) suit &tie is fine for formal night. And the pre-voyage documentation still gets delivered in hard copy and it's clear about dress vodes.

I second this.

 

The brochures (which many people who are not computer literate often use), pre-voyage documentation etc. explain the dress code and what is required (indeed may give a schedule of each night of the cruise informal/formal theme and any "balls" etc (subject to change on board ;) )). And suggest alternatives for those who wish to spend their evenings less formally attired.

 

If, as you say, they've done a couple of cruises, no doubt they are already aware that not all lines are the same, they will already be asking questions, based on their (limited) experience, when booking: "Will there be many children on board?" "Is the ship very noisy with loud music everywhere?" "Is there much for an older couple to do?" etc. If they've already had a poor experience, they will be keen not to repeat it. One of those questions may well be "Will there be any formal nights when we're expected to dress-up?"

 

Do people really part with a lot of money without doing any really basic research whatsoever? (even as simple as wanting to know the ports-of-call?)

 

:)

Edited October 23, 2015 by pepperrn

[robbie_3]

Hi Tara Jane, I think you mention some interesting points not withstanding that their attire would seem to fall within the general dress code guidelines. I would be disappointed if a passenger felt the need to ostracize another for failing their own interpretation of what the dress code should represent especially when meeting the general guidelines. I watched with interest two sisters from NY on my last cruise going from their cabin into the dining room wearing colourful wide brimmed hat attire. They were lovely people and in their mind that is how smart fashionable people would represent themselves in a wide world that is not a monochrome experience, even on formal nights. Concerning jackets, I believe there is no Cunard guide line that states one cannot remove the jacket he is wearing if too hot in the dining room apart from the perception of some that such behaviour is to be frowned upon. That is of course their prerogative while others may feel this to be a little harsh.:)

[balf]

Carnival doesn't release the numbers on the individual corporate brands or on specific ships. Given that there are plans to make a huge financial investment into refreshing QM2, I'd speculate that she's running in the black.

 

 

The financial investment may be "huge" but I fear many of us who have sailed aboard her over the years will be disappointed somewhat.

 

Adding extra cabins doesn't seem to me to be an improvement. The ship is now in early middle age and needs a thorough makeover rather than cosmetic tinkering.

 

However I'll take this all back if they replace the broken seating in Illuminations. Definitely not holding breath.

 

David.

[fantasy51]

Do people really part with a lot of money without doing any really basic research whatsoever?

 

Yes, they do! :D

 

As I have related elsewhere, Australian friends, experienced cruisers, were over here for a couple of months and while here they booked a cruise on QV, expecting to do their research in the week before the cruise, once the documentation arrived by post. Unfortunately they were stuck in Budapest for that week because of no flights (the volcano and ash cloud) and only got back the day before their cruise. All documentation was being held in the post office and they could not access it. They wore clothes that had been acceptable on other lines, i.e. a dark sports coat for my male friend and lovely dresses for wife and daughter. They skipped the first formal night but went along to the second and were treated with acceptance by everyone except the photographer who skipped their table. (His loss, as they usually buy photographs.)

[branston boy]

Hello fantasy.Eureka,your friends have found what most people have been searching for,that is a way to get rid of on-board photographers.Dress incorrectly.Please treat this as humour.The dress incorrectly bit anyway.

 

Rodger.

[fantasy51]

Yes, Branston Boy, exactly what we have all been looking for! ;)