Jacket Off At Dinner Precedence?

[Underwatr]

I've never been in the dining room when it was too hot for comfort wearing a jacket (and you can see that most of my cruises are to tropical locations). My wife usually needs a sweater or wrap at dinner.

[Camgirl]

wonder what the root fear of any "relaxation of standards" is ?

-will it cause the present demographic of cunard travelers to change?

-will it attract younger people or more kids?

-will it cause the dining room experience to change? many forum topics seem food related and status onboard the ship related (who eats where and with whom and when) . Maybe thats a main attraction of Cunard.

- will it mark the end of some type of era which may be more dear to the hearts of the British, than perhaps other nations.

it does seem to be a touchy subject.

 

Simple! Formality is Cunard's usp. Without it Cunard would be just another cruise line offering the same as all the others. It is the reason we book Cunard and is the reason we love Cunard.

[Host Hattie]

Simple! Formality is Cunard's usp. Without it Cunard would be just another cruise line offering the same as all the others. It is the reason we book Cunard and is the reason we love Cunard.

 

This :)

 

I can only remember one occasion when the dining room was warm, on QE in Britannia Club in the Mediterranean 2 years ago. I don't think any gentleman removed their jackets but it was definitely warmer than usual.

Other than that we have sailed the Mediterranean and the Caribbean and I have always needed an evening jacket or wrap to deal with the air conditioning.

 

Please come back and let us know how you get on.

[Victoria2]

All of the above. These are important to us who like the Cunard formal atmosphere.

 

This thread started with a hypothetical situation. (Although I do have to admit that using the inadequate air conditioning angle is a good one.) Whenever I see an "is this acceptable..." thread it seems to be not so much of a question as it is a quest for support. "I know it's really NOT acceptable but if a couple of other forum members tell me it's fine than I'm covered.":eek:

 

Angle?

What part of the problem is 'an angle' when the staff remove the table's skirt to try help alleviate the heat? That didn't work sufficiently and neither did the air-conditioning. When you sit down to dine and you are very hot in a strapless evening dress, pity the gentleman, who has a heat problem anyway, in his dinner jacket. I know it's not following the rules if jackets are removed but then I'm sure the jacket removers didn't sign up to a luxury cruise in QG to find that they would be the ones grilled. Sweat running down faces is the time it's acceptable to remove a jacket, for the diner and his fellow diners.

 

Jackets were removed by a few gentlemen on our last cruise. I didn't agree as the temperature was very pleasant. Very different scenario.

Edited October 20, 2015 by Victoria2

[3rdGenCunarder]

wonder what the root fear of any "relaxation of standards" is ?

-will it cause the present demographic of cunard travelers to change?

-will it attract younger people or more kids?

-will it cause the dining room experience to change? many forum topics seem food related and status onboard the ship related (who eats where and with whom and when) . Maybe thats a main attraction of Cunard.

- will it mark the end of some type of era which may be more dear to the hearts of the British, than perhaps other nations.

it does seem to be a touchy subject.

 

We don't FEAR relaxed standards. We DON'T WANT them.

 

All of the above. These are important to us who like the Cunard formal atmosphere.

 

This thread started with a hypothetical situation. (Although I do have to admit that using the inadequate air conditioning angle is a good one.) Whenever I see an "is this acceptable..." thread it seems to be not so much of a question as it is a quest for support. "I know it's really NOT acceptable but if a couple of other forum members tell me it's fine than I'm covered.":eek:

 

So true!

Edited October 20, 2015 by 3rdGenCunarder

[navybankerteacher]

We don't FEAR relaxed standards. We DON'T WANT them.

 

 

Very well said - it is unfortunate that there are so many who do seem to FEAR, or simply DON'T WANT standards in the first place.

[pepperrn]

All of the above. These are important to us who like the Cunard formal atmosphere. This thread started with a hypothetical situation. (Although I do have to admit that using the inadequate air conditioning angle is a good one.) Whenever I see an "is this acceptable..." thread it seems to be not so much of a question as it is a quest for support. "I know it's really NOT acceptable but if a couple of other forum members tell me it's fine than I'm covered.":eek:

 

Very well said BlueRiband. Thank you.

 

In my experience the dining rooms tend to be on the cool side, which suits me.

 

If copious amounts of "sweat was pouring down" my face for more than a minute (which can happen as a reaction to some foods) then I'd make my apologies, asked to be excused, and retreat from the dining room to get some fresh air. If I still felt unable to return after a few minutes I would retire to my cabin to lie down (or take a cool shower).

I simply don't think it polite/good etiquette to sit profusely and continuously sweating in front of my fellow diners; the height of bad manners (jacket or no jacket). Furthermore; extremely foolish if I felt ill.

And if unwell, it is even more important to remove myself from what is exacerbating the situation (a hot stuffy room).

 

If a man had been sweating so much that "sweat was pouring down his face" then I wouldn't want him to remove his jacket and continue to sit at the table if he was that unwell or uncomfortable, for two reasons:

A. Most importantly he should get fresh air as soon as possible for the sake of his health. And if needed, medical assistance. Not just sit there, sweating, making things worse.

B. If he has been genuinely sweating so much, and then removes his jacket, I really don't wish to look at a sweat-laden (and malodorous) wet shirt (armpits, chest, back) during dinner, thank you.

 

Anyone can say "Oh, it's so hot in here, I need to take my jacket off" even when it is a perfectly acceptable temperature in the dining room. Best excuse ever invented for circumventing the dress-code.

 

The next step for many would be to remove their jackets automatically before sitting down (I've seen that done) regardless of the temperature. Then you may as well abandon the dress-code.

Indeed on one QE cruise there were a group of four guys who merely carried their jackets about in the evenings, restaurant to bars, I never once saw any of them actually worn.

 

In the situation described above the guy should have made his excuses and retired. That is not only correct etiquette & polite, it is the sensible/essential and healthy thing to do, IMHO.

Edited October 20, 2015 by pepperrn

[robbie_3]

It certainly is interesting to read different opinions. I had to remove my jacket once when dining on the last cruise because on that particular occasion the room became too hot, I didn't want the dinner to become an unpleasant experience or indeed a sweat patch on my shirt or the back of my jacket. I'm a keen runner and gym user, I don't suffer from health issues, but of course not everyone feels the heat in the same way all of the time, factors such as age, acclimatization, health, air conditioning all have a factor to play, if a room becomes too hot it may not effect many passengers but that doesn't mean it has no adverse impact on others. I would agree with Victoria2's comment put so succinctly, there is room for both etiquette and common sense, quietly taking off a jacket to me is far preferable than getting up and going out of a restaurant.

Edited October 20, 2015 by robbie_3

[Victoria2]

Just a further thought, if things get too hot in the Caribbean, although less than ideal, are there any circumstances where it is considered acceptable to take a tuxedo or sports jacket off in the dining room and place this over the back of a chair?

 

Getting back to your post, the general answer is in most circumstances, jackets should be kept on. The temperature in the restaurant should be such that jackets can comfortably be worn.

 

There seems to be the general opinion that the air-conditioning gives a pleasant ambient temperature in all the restaurants, all the time. If those who have commented haven't experience the failure of the air conditioning to keep that temperature ambient then of course their answers will not be geared to that experience.

If a one off, then yes, leave the table to cool down but in a situation where night on night the temperature cannot be kept at a decent level [hence the removal of the table skirt scenario I described] then by all means, remove your jacket once the heat gets to you. May I suggest you keep it on as long as possible but before the beads of sweat turn into torrents. :)

[brigittetom]

"I know it's really NOT acceptable but if a couple of other forum members tell me it's fine than I'm covered.":eek:

 

 

I like that....it's right up there with your "Just because it's expensive, does NOT mean it's formal". :)

[pepperrn]

... is far preferable than getting up and going out of a restaurant.

Hi robbie_3

 

Going slightly off topic (but relating to your helpful and polite post :) ).

A few years ago on a QM2 crossing, during dinner on a "formal" evening, my father (then almost 80), after the first course, very quietly said to the rest of the table "excuse me just a moment" and left. He returned a few minutes later, and the rest of us hardly noted that he'd gone or returned.

 

Only the next day when he was discussing using the laundry with my mother and myself did I discover what had happened. He'd spilt soup over his dress-shirt, no-one else saw this. He went back to his cabin, changed his shirt and returned to finish dinner, with no fuss and without drawing attention to himself; he didn't say a word.

 

Best wishes to you, and many happy sailings :)

[pepperrn]

... May I suggest you keep it on as long as possible but before the beads of sweat turn into torrents. :)

Hi Victoria2,

 

Great comment :) thank you for making me smile! (with me, some curries/"hot" food instantly produce the torrents you mention :o )

 

Thank you, many happy sailings :)

[Victoria2]

Hi Victoria2,

 

Great comment :) thank you for making me smile! (with me, some curries/"hot" food instantly produce the torrents you mention :o )

 

Thank you, many happy sailings :)

 

No problem at all. We disagree, but we can disagree pleasantly.

 

As for the sailings, consider that a done deal. :)

Thank you pepperrn.

[robbie_3]

This thread started with a hypothetical situation. (Although I do have to admit that using the inadequate air conditioning angle is a good one.) Whenever I see an "is this acceptable..." thread it seems to be not so much of a question as it is a quest for support. "I know it's really NOT acceptable but if a couple of other forum members tell me it's fine than I'm covered.":eek:

 

Thank you for your opinion. I am quite comfortable posting a thread asking for general opinions and making my own known without the need for support.

[milamber]

It's always going to be a contentious issue with strong opinions on both sides. The thing that always amuses me is the idea that wearing a jacket somehow makes someone well dressed. I've seen plenty of men who, whilst adhering to the dress code by wearing a jacket, wear clothes that neither fit, nor match and frankly look downright scruffy.

 

I'd far rather see someone in properly tailored long trousers and a shirt that fit correctly and go together than someone thoughtlessly bunging a jacket on simply to adhere to a dress code.

 

Same goes for formal nights. Personally speaking, I think there are so many of them on Cunard it makes them ordinary, rather than special. Again, some of the colour, style and fit variations on a dinner jacket, trousers and bow tie are simply awful. It's black tie, not red jacket, blue shirt, purple tie and white trousers.

 

I'd also disagree that it's the dress code that makes Cunard special - there is far more that still distinguishes the line from others. How long that will last is anybody's guess, though, as standards drop.

 

That said, whilst we all have our own opinions, as long Cunard have a dress code I have little time for people who book a voyage then moan about it.

 

And yes, whilst the temperature in the MDR is generally cooler on the QM2 than other ships, there have been a couple of times when it has been sweltering and I have removed my jacket midway through dinner. Not on a formal night though - I have to grin and bear that :)

Edited October 20, 2015 by milamber

[Host Hattie]

It's black tie, not red jacket, blue shirt, purple tie and white trousers.

 

 

 

This post made me check the actual wording, although in the UK evening wear is often referred to as "black tie", Cunard say

 

Evening wear consists of an evening or cocktail dress or smart trouser suit for ladies. A tuxedo, dinner jacket or dark suit with appropriate neck wear for men or you may wear formal national dress and army uniform.

 

Having said that, I've never seen any gentlemen quite as colourful as that milamber !

[robbie_3]

:) burgundy dinner jacket here I come but that might be for another thread :)

Edited October 20, 2015 by robbie_3

[Host Hattie]

We might need photos for that one :)

[jimmybean]

I believe the dress code calls for gentlemen to WEAR a jacket, not just carry one around and hang it off the back of a dining room chair.

 

….Imagine if the ladies came to dinner in undergarments, carrying their formal dresses/gowns etc and placing these items on the backs of chairs!

 

Being dressed is being dressed.

 

The suit jacket or tux jacket or sports coat is part of gentlemen being dressed.

 

Personally, although I would be too polite to criticize such behavior, I would consider jacket removal at the dinner table ill-mannered and uncouth. I would think such a man ungentlemanly and raised without knowledge of basic social etiquette. I would be embarrassed for such a man.

 

Fortunately, over 100 dinners on Cunard ships and I have never had such a tablemate. No once.

[robbie_3]

We might need photos for that one :)

:) I will do my best HATTIE to post a picture should I wear such a garment. :)

 

I have met so many lovely people on Cunard ships over the years and the odd pompous few, but one thing I have learnt, you can never please everybody. :)

Edited October 20, 2015 by robbie_3

[mariposa777]

I suspect i was the subject of many a disapproving glance with my wrap hanging over the back of my chair in the MDR ...

 

Sometimes the temperature problem is not an ambient one ...

 

(The Mr did keep his jacket on though - boarding school indoctrination)

[kruisejunkie]

We were on the Queen Victoria during a Panama Canal transit from San Francisco to Fort Lauderdale. On two occasions when we were dining in one of the alternative restaurants, as we were being seated, the head waiter invited us to remove our jackets if we so desired, as he felt the room was a little warm.

[3rdGenCunarder]

It's always going to be a contentious issue with strong opinions on both sides. The thing that always amuses me is the idea that wearing a jacket somehow makes someone well dressed. I've seen plenty of men who, whilst adhering to the dress code by wearing a jacket, wear clothes that neither fit, nor match and frankly look downright scruffy.

 

I'd far rather see someone in properly tailored long trousers and a shirt that fit correctly and go together than someone thoughtlessly bunging a jacket on simply to adhere to a dress code.

 

Same goes for formal nights. Personally speaking, I think there are so many of them on Cunard it makes them ordinary, rather than special. Again, some of the colour, style and fit variations on a dinner jacket, trousers and bow tie are simply awful. It's black tie, not red jacket, blue shirt, purple tie and white trousers.

 

I'd also disagree that it's the dress code that makes Cunard special - there is far more that still distinguishes the line from others. How long that will last is anybody's guess, though, as standards drop.

 

That said, whilst we all have our own opinions, as long Cunard have a dress code I have little time for people who book a voyage then moan about it.

 

And yes, whilst the temperature in the MDR is generally cooler on the QM2 than other ships, there have been a couple of times when it has been sweltering and I have removed my jacket midway through dinner. Not on a formal night though - I have to grin and bear that :)

 

(bold is mine) I've heard this argument before. But the thing is, the guy who just bunged on a jacket that may or may not fit isn't likely to have nicely tailored/fitted shirt and trousers. So if he takes of the jacket he isn't likely to look any better.

[ToadOfToadHall]

 

….Imagine if the ladies came to dinner in undergarments, carrying their formal dresses/gowns etc and placing these items on the backs of chairs!

 

That all depends on the lady in question !!

[rafinmd]

I cannot understand people on a Cunard Cruise who moan about the dress code, it is shown in the brochure what is expected in dress while on ship, they moan, 99% of passengers love the dress code.

 

I have to question that statistic based on the number of people seen in informal dress on the recent formal/informal optional night. Probably not over 50% in formal. Formality seems to be the rage more on this forum than on the ships.

 

Roy