Chip & Signature Cards in Europe

[Aquaphile]

How readily accepted are traditional magnetic stripe credit (or debit) cards or chip and signature cards in Europe (specifically Germany, Austria and Hungary)? I understand the system there is chip and PIN, not signature. My bank has issued me a chip card, and tells me I don't need a PIN. I just want to make sure this is true. Thanks!

[Host Jazzbeau]

How readily accepted are traditional magnetic stripe credit (or debit) cards or chip and signature cards in Europe (specifically Germany, Austria and Hungary)? I understand the system there is chip and PIN, not signature. My bank has issued me a chip card, and tells me I don't need a PIN. I just want to make sure this is true. Thanks!

 

Wherever there's a salesperson involved, you will have no trouble with Chip & Signature. They stick the chip end in the machine, it thinks for a while and then prints out the receipts for you to sign. But in a kiosk (train station, toll booth or late-nite gas station) your card won't work. We even have one that includes Chip & PIN as the third option, and it wouldn't work in those situations.

[orchestrapal]

Just returning after 6 weeks and have chip and signature cards with us. Usually the do require signature but many times on this trip the cards have gone through without. You will have no problems with them in Eirope or Great Britain.

[jpalbny]

Jazzbeau, I remember your very recent experience with the card not working at French tollbooths, which would have driven me mad. I have not used my card in their machines in many years; the last time, they actually took stripe cards!

 

But my chip and signature cards work just fine at unattended train station kiosks throughout Germany, and I've used them there as recently as last month. I also got it to work at an unattended parking lot kiosk in Switzerland, which actually surprised me, since I don't think the machine was actually connected to a network. I have also had no problems using my cards at unattended gas stations - again, last month I filled up at a closed gas station in Switzerland without a problem.

 

To the OP - I guess the answer is it depends. US cards, I think, may work, but perhaps less than 100% of the time. I (so far, knock on wood) seem to have minimal difficulties using mine in situations where some others have reported differently, so I think everyone's experience is different, and you just have to try it and see what happens. My experience is similar to orchestrapal's, at least over the past 2 years in Iceland, Great Britain, France, Germany, Austria, and Switzerland. I have not been to Hungary yet but will be there next spring.

[id4elizabeth]

We went to the trouble of getting true Chip & PIN cards from two of the banks that offer them here in the States for our trip this last spring. One of them took over 4 months to get. Our experience on our 50 day Viking Oceans cruise, where we went to all the coastal countries in Europe, was that we had no problem using the cards, but the machine never asked for a PIN. As Jazz Beau says, you insert the card and then the machine prints out the slip for you to sign. We asked about this and were told that the European readers recognize the card (from the Chip) as a North American card and their systems just automatically default to signature. So even if you have a true Chip & PIN, it acts like a Chip & Signature.

 

Now, we only used the cards in shop, restaurants, etc. Had no need for automated kiosks, so don't know what would happen there.

[TravelerThom]

Jazzbeau, I remember your very recent experience with the card not working at French tollbooths, which would have driven me mad. I have not used my card in their machines in many years; the last time, they actually took stripe cards!

 

But my chip and signature cards work just fine at unattended train station kiosks throughout Germany, and I've used them there as recently as last month. I also got it to work at an unattended parking lot kiosk in Switzerland, which actually surprised me, since I don't think the machine was actually connected to a network. I have also had no problems using my cards at unattended gas stations - again, last month I filled up at a closed gas station in Switzerland without a problem.

 

To the OP - I guess the answer is it depends. US cards, I think, may work, but perhaps less than 100% of the time. I (so far, knock on wood) seem to have minimal difficulties using mine in situations where some others have reported differently, so I think everyone's experience is different, and you just have to try it and see what happens. My experience is similar to orchestrapal's, at least over the past 2 years in Iceland, Great Britain, France, Germany, Austria, and Switzerland. I have not been to Hungary yet but will be there next spring.

A lot of times in the US no signature is required - swipe or insert your card, and it just spits out a receipt. This seems more prevalent on small amounts, but some locations in the US want a signature for quite small amounts, while other times I can charge US$50 or so with no signature. I GUESS this is selected by the merchant, and may be a trade off between security and time (which equals money). {Perhaps someone who has a merchant account can confirm this.} I suspect that a similar trade-off is being made in Europe.

 

Thom

 

PS Many (most?) gasoline stations in the US use a semi-PIN number, in that they ask you for the ZIP of the billing address.

[FlyerTalker]

One more data point: The Dutch train system would not accept four different chip and signature cards in their ticket kiosk machines. Completely required the pin. For reference, all cards had been notified about the travel, all were well below any credit limit and the machine took the cards of the people in front and back of us. Highly suggestive that it was our cards that were the issue.

 

OTOH, they worked fine for point of sale terminals where a person would have us sign the receipt spit out of the little machines.

 

YMMV

 

EDIT to add that this was September 2015.

Edited October 19, 2015 by FlyerTalker

[TravelerThom]

I get that chip cards cost more money to make versus swipe cards, but why the resistance by US banks to providing working PINs with chip cards? I assume that sooner or later the US banks will get in line with the rest of the world, but seems like it would have been cheaper to do it all at the same time.

 

In 2007 the US Daylight Savings Time start and finish was changed from being a few weeks shorter than Europe, to being a few weeks longer than Europe. This wrecks havoc with companies that do business in multiple countries (especially airlines). Sometimes I think that the US is not just dumb, but tries to be stupid.:eek:

 

At least the US does have company in the non-metric world, specifically Liberia, Myanmar and nobody else! I never ceased to be amazed at people who claim that the metric system is too complicated (I can easily tell you how many centimeters in a kilometer, but would take awhile to figure out how many inches in a mile), yet still somehow manage to buy wine and liquor. [Actually US customary units have been based on metric units since 1893, so I suppose that technically the US is on the metric system.]

 

Okay - rant over.

 

Thom

[jpalbny]

The variability in whether cards are accepted or rejected is bizarre, and even though I've been using CCs abroad for years I still get a little nervous each time that my transaction might fail. Though all of our cards are absolutely chip and signature, they do have PINs which are theoretically just for ATM use only (cash advances).

 

I have, with increasing frequency, encountered kiosks that ask for a PIN despite my card being chip and signature. Step one is to try to bypass that by pushing enter. Sometimes that works, sometimes the machine insists on a PIN. When that happens, I use the "ATM-only" PIN, and the transaction almost always works. I know you're not "supposed" to do this, or even need to do this, but I do - and it works. Don't tell my bank! ;)

 

IME, German kiosks almost never ask for a PIN, they just approve the transaction after reading my chip. Swiss kiosks usually want the PIN. France and Great Britain usually just want the chip. Icelandic gas stations are absolutely insistent on wanting a PIN IME, though others have reported differently.

 

Some day I will run into a situation where none of these tricks will work, but hopefully it won't cause too much trouble. Wouldn't want to be out in the wilds of East Iceland low on gas without a functional card!

 

Edited to add: Thom, love your post! We do seemingly go out of our way to be a pain, don't we!

Edited October 19, 2015 by jpalbny

[Hydrokitty]

I get that chip cards cost more money to make versus swipe cards, but why the resistance by US banks to providing working PINs with chip cards? I assume that sooner or later the US banks will get in line with the rest of the world, but seems like it would have been cheaper to do it all at the same time.

 

In 2007 the US Daylight Savings Time start and finish was changed from being a few weeks shorter than Europe, to being a few weeks longer than Europe. This wrecks havoc with companies that do business in multiple countries (especially airlines). Sometimes I think that the US is not just dumb, but tries to be stupid.:eek:

 

At least the US does have company in the non-metric world, specifically Liberia, Myanmar and nobody else! I never ceased to be amazed at people who claim that the metric system is too complicated (I can easily tell you how many centimeters in a kilometer, but would take awhile to figure out how many inches in a mile), yet still somehow manage to buy wine and liquor. [Actually US customary units have been based on metric units since 1893, so I suppose that technically the US is on the metric system.]

 

Okay - rant over.

 

Thom

 

Hi Thom...LOL....I'm one of those people who has an advanced college degree but cannot and probably will never get the metric system! I couldn't even tell you the difference between a centimeter and a kilometer! I'm not bragging, mind you, I'm just too old to change and I don't drink so I really don't care!! :D

 

As to the credit cards, all 3 of mine have now been replaced with chip and pin technology and I was instructed to get a pin #. (Now for my rant: I don't like numbers, why can't my PIN be a favorite word)

 

Seriously, only thing I would add regarding credit card use in Europe is what everyone else said, plus Visa and MasterCard are readily accepted however American Express, Diner's Club and Discover cards are not, because the merchant fees are too high.

[steamboats]

You will not have any problems with chip/magnetic strip and signature in any kind of shop. They do have readers which can read both, chip and magnetic strip. The "card" tells them whether they need a PIN or a signature.

 

But any kind of automated machine like ticket machines do work with cash or chip/PIN only - needless to say, there is nothing you can sign there ;)!

 

steamboats

[DrivesLikeMario]

In our recent experience in Germany, Switzerland, France and The Netherlands, it was hit-or-miss. We've had our true chip & PIN Chase Visa for at least 5 years and used that for the entire vacation. Sometimes we needed the PIN, sometimes nothing at all and once in a blue moon, a signature.

 

One thing I learned, you had better be pretty quick about doing your transaction as most Europeans are super quick with all the varying POS machines and expect others to be too. The sales clerks on the other hand, were very good about helping us if we were unsure what to do. It's pretty easy after a few times to figure out what the machine will require.

Edited October 19, 2015 by DrivesLikeMario

[Aquaphile]

Thanks to everyone- this is great info and puts my mind at ease! For the river cruise, we're not likely to encounter any kiosks, so we should be good. But we'd like to take a train trip through Europe in the future, so hopefully the US will get with the program soon.

 

One other question- do the ATM machines in the airports work with just the old magnetic strip? Our credit union hasn't given us a chip ATM card yet, and says they may not have it available by the time we leave in November. We've always gotten spending money in the local currency at ATM machines when we've been in Europe before, but it's been a few years, before chip technology was around. I'll take some dollars just in case, but it's easier to just get money from the machine than to try to convert it somewhere.

[jpalbny]

So far, I've not run into an issue using my mag stripe ATM card anywhere in Europe. Recently got upgraded to a combo chip/stripe card so won't be able to provide further updates. :)

 

Incidentally the only place I've ever seen an ATM that required a chip card was in Québec this past January.

[id4elizabeth]

We were there this past spring and used our mag stripe debit cards all over Europe at ATMs. Never had a problem.

[Hydrokitty]

We were there this past spring and used our mag stripe debit cards all over Europe at ATMs. Never had a problem.

 

We were there last month and didn't have any issues with ATM's either.

[steamboats]

ATMs can "read" everything, magentic strip + PIN, chip + PIN.

 

Remember your PIN has to have 4 digits only!

 

steamboats

[Aquaphile]

Thanks again everyone! Now I can mark this off my list of concerns and concentrate on the fun stuff! Only 3 1/2 weeks to go!

[TravelerThom]

...As to the credit cards, all 3 of mine have now been replaced with chip and pin technology and I was instructed to get a pin #. (Now for my rant: I don't like numbers, why can't my PIN be a favorite word) ...

There is a practical reason for this. In the US most ATM and similar number pads have letters of the alphabet on them, just like most US telephones. In Europe most number pads do NOT have letters on them, so if you use a word you had better have the conversion chart (2:ABC; 3: DEF; 4:GHI; 5:JKL; 6:MNO; 7:PQRS; 8:TUV; 9:WXYZ) in your head.

 

Thom

 

PS At the risk of too much information "centi" is 1/100 (as in a cent is 1/100 of a dollar); "kilo" (from Greek) is a thousand, so there are 100 * 1000 = 100,000 centimeters to a kilometer. Being too lazy to do precise math, I looked up that there are 63,360 inches to a mile. As a physicist I'm used to doing quick rough calculations in my head and leaving precise number crunching to machines. Physicists' rough calculations may only have one digit, but we know where the decimal goes; engineers on the other hand have seven digits and not a clue where the decimal goes:D (this passes for humor in the physics world:rolleyes:).

 

BTW if you know that a liter is approximately a quart, a meter is approximately a yard and a kilogram is approximately 2 pounds that is close enough (+/- 10%) for everybody except engineers.

[Host Jazzbeau]

PS At the risk of too much information "centi" is 1/100 (as in a cent is 1/100 of a dollar); "kilo" (from Greek) is a thousand, so there are 100 * 1000 = 100,000 centimeters to a kilometer. Being too lazy to do precise math, I looked up that there are 63,360 inches to a mile. As a physicist I'm used to doing quick rough calculations in my head and leaving precise number crunching to machines. Physicists' rough calculations may only have one digit, but we know where the decimal goes; engineers on the other hand have seven digits and not a clue where the decimal goes:D (this passes for humor in the physics world:rolleyes:).

 

BTW if you know that a liter is approximately a quart, a meter is approximately a yard and a kilogram is approximately 2 pounds that is close enough (+/- 10%) for everybody except engineers.

 

Thom -- IMHO the reason the metric system failed in the US is because the government tried to implement first the parts that give no practical value to the citizens [kms for roads and Celsius for temps]. I notice that even in Britain they still talk about miles per hour [at least Top Gear does/did]. We don't export our roads, so there is no particular benefit to anybody [well, OK: tourists] in converting this. And the Celsius scale only makes sense to scientists, who like the fact that water freezes at 0 C and boils at 100 C. For people, on the other hand, the Fahrenheit scale makes more sense: 0-100 F are the outer limits of climate where humans can thrive. If they had started with liters and grams [and mandated round-number container sizes] there would have been an immediate benefit [much easier to compare prices] -- but all existing recipes would have stopped working, so they were afraid of backlash. The automobile industry converted on their own [to help exports and one-world design] -- and although every mechanic in the US had to buy a new set of tools, the reward of easily going up from 12mm to 13mm [rather than from 15/32 to 1/2] made it worthwhile. If you want to force change, show me how I benefit.

 

PS -- when I was [briefly] an Engineering major in college, our professors were happy with "slide-rule accuracy." I don't think physics profs would accept that [or we would never have gotten to the moon] ;)

[Hydrokitty]

There is a practical reason for this. In the US most ATM and similar number pads have letters of the alphabet on them, just like most US telephones. In Europe most number pads do NOT have letters on them, so if you use a word you had better have the conversion chart (2:ABC; 3: DEF; 4:GHI; 5:JKL; 6:MNO; 7:PQRS; 8:TUV; 9:WXYZ) in your head.

 

Thom

 

PS At the risk of too much information "centi" is 1/100 (as in a cent is 1/100 of a dollar); "kilo" (from Greek) is a thousand, so there are 100 * 1000 = 100,000 centimeters to a kilometer. Being too lazy to do precise math, I looked up that there are 63,360 inches to a mile. As a physicist I'm used to doing quick rough calculations in my head and leaving precise number crunching to machines. Physicists' rough calculations may only have one digit, but we know where the decimal goes; engineers on the other hand have seven digits and not a clue where the decimal goes:D (this passes for humor in the physics world:rolleyes:).

 

BTW if you know that a liter is approximately a quart, a meter is approximately a yard and a kilogram is approximately 2 pounds that is close enough (+/- 10%) for everybody except engineers.

 

Thanks for taking the time to explain all this to me..unfortunately, I didn't understand a word...seriously, I am the opposite of dyslexic..I am discalculaic..(you can google it and learn about it if you've never heard of it) Anyway, DH is a mechanical and civil engineer and specialized in bridges....primarily why they failed...he is exceedingly and annoyingly precise..I, on the other hand, had my own business and wasn't allowed to touch the checkbook!! But I can speak 3 languages!!! :D

[xpcdoojk]

Thom -- IMHO the reason the metric system failed in the US is because the government tried to implement first the parts that give no practical value to the citizens [kms for roads and Celsius for temps]. I notice that even in Britain they still talk about miles per hour [at least Top Gear does/did]. We don't export our roads, so there is no particular benefit to anybody [well, OK: tourists] in converting this. And the Celsius scale only makes sense to scientists, who like the fact that water freezes at 0 C and boils at 100 C. For people, on the other hand, the Fahrenheit scale makes more sense: 0-100 F are the outer limits of climate where humans can thrive. If they had started with liters and grams [and mandated round-number container sizes] there would have been an immediate benefit [much easier to compare prices] -- but all existing recipes would have stopped working, so they were afraid of backlash. The automobile industry converted on their own [to help exports and one-world design] -- and although every mechanic in the US had to buy a new set of tools, the reward of easily going up from 12mm to 13mm [rather than from 15/32 to 1/2] made it worthwhile. If you want to force change, show me how I benefit.

 

PS -- when I was [briefly] an Engineering major in college, our professors were happy with "slide-rule accuracy." I don't think physics profs would accept that [or we would never have gotten to the moon] ;)

 

Even though, I am completely prolific at converting between the two systems, and know generally in everyday usage what number means what. I still think it is a stupid decision to change. Both are equally accurate, and the cost of changing is high... so why change. and why do the Brits who use both... feel the need to throw away their original math...

 

So, Host Jazzbeau... I am in complete agreement. I don't mind the difference anymore than the exchange rate of the euro to the dollar or the dollar to the GBP.... The math is the same, and for me 212 is where water boils at sea level and 32 is damned cold, on the verge of freezing.

 

jc

[Hydrokitty]

Even though, I am completely prolific at converting between the two systems, and know generally in everyday usage what number means what. I still think it is a stupid decision to change. Both are equally accurate, and the cost of changing is high... so why change. and why do the Brits who use both... feel the need to throw away their original math...

 

So, Host Jazzbeau... I am in complete agreement. I don't mind the difference anymore than the exchange rate of the euro to the dollar or the dollar to the GBP.... The math is the same, and for me 212 is where water boils at sea level and 32 is damned cold, on the verge of freezing.

 

jc

 

 

My kind of person!!! :D:D