Notification FRom HAL re: dining on Westerdam 2/20

[Blue Mudshark]

... what else are cruisers to do when they receive lousy service?.

 

You could stiff the cab driver that takes you to the airport after the cruise. Or you could just wait till you get home, and kick the neighbor's dog. It would have about the same justification (none), and it would send the same message to HAL management (none).

[Cindy]

No. If you wish to give out cash tips, and you want those who receive them to keep them, then you must leave the Hotel Service Charge at the full amount.

 

The stewards get a list of everyone who has removed or reduced the HSC, so they know whether or not they can keep cash tips. If they want to keep their jobs, they comply with the terms of the contract they agreed to.

Remember, they all live in very close quarters, and would not be able to keep cheating a secret for very long---even if they were inclined to try.

 

Does the crew actually itemize all their cash tips by amount and passenger name? If not, and a passenger removes the HSC on the last day of the cruise, how do the crew remember all the cash amounts and who paid them from the beginning of the cruise?

 

Do they live in such close quarters that they all know how much cash everyone else has, and where they received it?

 

Color me skeptical.

 

On a Princess cruise several years ago we had an excellent wait team and we tipped them extra in cash on the last night of the cruise. They asked us for our cabin number, and explained they could only keep the tip if it was verified that we hadn't removed the auto-tips. I've always assumed it was similar on all lines, and so we make sure to include our names and cabin number when we give extra cash tips.

 

I think the cruise lines take things like this very seriously, and most of the employees would never risk losing their jobs to circumvent the system.

[whogo]

You could stiff the cab driver that takes you to the airport after the cruise. Or you could just wait till you get home, and kick the neighbor's dog. It would have about the same justification (none), and it would send the same message to HAL management (none).

I disagree. If enough crew get stiffed, HAL management will get the message. If a waiter's tips are reduced because of management decisions, his gripe is with management, not the customer. Rewarding bad behavior just encourages HAL to keep giving shoddy service.

[LMaxwell]

Crew pay is specified in the contracts between HAL and the agencies that they get service staff from. HAL collects hotel service charges in a pool, then distributes it out to crew based on internal performance metrics/targets. The collected amount typically exceeds contractual obligations = doesn't cost HAL anything.

 

If you remove HSC you are shorting the amount going in to the pool. How much are you impacting each staff member? A few cents or dollars.

 

But if the pool were ever "short", HAL would have to kick in their own money to meet contractual obligations.

 

If HAL has to pony up enough times because they aren't collecting the HSC amount they think should be coming in they will take a deeper look at what is causing this and realize PAX are ticked off at being treated like second class citizens by corporate.

 

When HAL isn't willing or able to provide all pax the "hotel services" they have advertised and promised I don't think it is wrong to modify that charge; it is discretionary and doing so is playing within HAL's rules. If HAL didn't want people to have that option, they could remove it, but they haven't.

 

And there's no way they are shaking down each crew member for cash. It simply isn't manageable. If a steward has cabin A and cabin B and cabin A pays HSC and nothing more, and Cabin B removes HSC and tips in cash; nothing, NOTHING, in reality, stops the steward from saying the cash came from cabin A and cabin B gave the stiff arm. So Steward keeps the cash. An honor system is one thing, but do people here really think the staff don't know how to game the system, or that everyone accurately reports their cash tips? Many people just say thank you and pocket the cash; they may not count it until later and might not even know the amounts each person may have given and the status of the HSC or not. Remember, cabin B could have provided cash on day one, and removed HSC on day 10. this whole "shakedown" the crew doesn't pass any management sniff test at all.

 

Shame on HAL for perpetuating the myth that in the failure of the company to provide what has been promised that it becomes PAX versus Staff. HAL provides a totally bogus reasoning to provide people with a "lesser" experience and guilt guests into still paying the crew so HAL doesn't have to.

 

If I were on a cruise and denied access to venues, forced to eat early, company didn't disclose a large group that impacts our vacation, you better believe I'm going to pull the levers made available by the company. Remember, HAL sets the framework for the game!

[knittinggirl]

On a Princess cruise several years ago we had an excellent wait team and we tipped them extra in cash on the last night of the cruise. They asked us for our cabin number, and explained they could only keep the tip if it was verified that we hadn't removed the auto-tips. I've always assumed it was similar on all lines, and so we make sure to include our names and cabin number when we give extra cash tips.

 

I just don't understand this! How do they split out the tips? Let's say the automatic tip is $15 a night, and you decide to disable the tips and give him $20 each night. Does that mean he would have to hand over the entire amount, or just the $15 per night?

 

We had a waiter refuse to take our additional written in tip. He actually crossed it off! Because he said by the time it's split out to whoever's entitled, he gets only 5 cents of a dollar tip. But he gets to keep the entire cash tip!

 

In cruise confidential the author said he had to pay someone above him for a prime table, and pay his assistant waiter to hang onto all the silverware. And our assistant waiter was so funny on the last cruise. He kept grabbing the silverware right after I'd cleaned my plate! Made me wonder if he had a silverware shortage.

 

Back to the original OP's post. So, if we get bumped like the people on Westerdam, other than a few choice words in the evaluation, there's nothing we can do? I guess there's one thing, no additional tip. Did anybody offer them (on day two) and additional $100 on the final night if they didn't rush them through the meals?

 

Sounds like no one was happy. The bumped passengers were rushed, and the special group had to eat too late. I think Royal Caribbean has their second seating at 8 PM, (first at 5:30 pm). Why couldn't they just move the first seating earlier?

[dakrewser]

It never ceases to amaze me the depths some people will go to in order to save a penny or two.

[whogo]

It never ceases to amaze me the depths some people will go to in order to save a penny or two.

Why pay for something you don't get?

[dakrewser]

Why pay for something you don't get?

 

Really? Was your cabin not cleaned? Were your meals not served? Did the servers and bartenders not get your drinks? Or did you really think the HSC was split up among the sales and marketing staff in Seattle?

[Krazy Kruizers]

Quick update: agent is still talking to HAL has gotten a small shipboard credit. Interestingly and confusingly' date=' they now say the group is SMALLER than anticipated and that I should inquire about late dining on the ship (??). Not sure that makes sense coming on the heels of their memo. I'm kind of at "whatever" at this point. Yesterday morning I received a very attractive up sell offer to a Neptune. I called within 2 hours of receiving the email (the second I saw it) and there was nothing left. Sigh. That sounds right.

 

I have to plow through a day at the office getting everybody set up for my absence and then dash home to get packed. I'm off to the airport at 5 am tomorrow and am looking forward to seeing my friends the ocean and sun in Florida.[/quote']

 

 

 

I know that you are on the ship now.

Sure hope you have gotten the dining situation settles.

Please come back and tell us what happened.

[joepeka]

I know that you are on the ship now.

Sure hope you have gotten the dining situation settles.

Please come back and tell us what happened.

 

Yes, I was hoping Chris would check in some time during the cruise and let us know how it's going. Guess we'll have to wait until he returns.

[whogo]

Really? Was your cabin not cleaned? Were your meals not served? Did the servers and bartenders not get your drinks? Or did you really think the HSC was split up among the sales and marketing staff in Seattle?

 

I assume the tips would be made up by the large group that was getting the preferred treatment. :)

 

As I said earlier, I have never reduced the hotel service charge, don't know whether I could or would. I would certainly try every other avenue. We Americans are so accustomed to tipping that we will leave a tip no matter how bad the service is. If I were denied the use of my preferred pool for a week, could not enter the Crow's Nest, and was forced out of the dining room every night at 8:00, I would not settle for a plate of chocolates.

[BeagleOne]

Well, it could be worse. I wonder if anyone from CC was on "Gronk's Party Ship".

[BeagleOne]

We Americans are so accustomed to tipping that we will leave a tip no matter how bad the service is.

 

I've had some bad service in my time, and have left some small tips, but have only stiffed a server once, and that was a very surly, nasty young woman in a pretentious restaurant with only one other occupied table (it was mid-afternoon). She took forever to take our order, then got it wrong, wouldn't correct it, and left my appetizer under the heat lamp for about 20 minutes and then served it to the other table, where someone had ordered the same thing, and then she billed us for it. She was appalling.

 

Even then, my parents wanted to leave her a 10% tip. I said no, and we left the exact amount of the bill, minus the cost of the appetizer and down to the penny, and I wrote a letter to the restaurant owners.

 

The place closed about a month later.

[RocketMan275]

I've had some bad service in my time, and have left some small tips, but have only stiffed a server once, and that was a very surly, nasty young woman in a pretentious restaurant with only one other occupied table (it was mid-afternoon). She took forever to take our order, then got it wrong, wouldn't correct it, and left my appetizer under the heat lamp for about 20 minutes and then served it to the other table, where someone had ordered the same thing, and then she billed us for it. She was appalling.

 

Even then, my parents wanted to leave her a 10% tip. I said no, and we left the exact amount of the bill, minus the cost of the appetizer and down to the penny, and I wrote a letter to the restaurant owners.

 

The place closed about a month later.

 

I took a date to a sushi place where we ran into a casual acquaintance of hers also on a date. We shared a table. I went to the bath room only to return and find the other couple gone. They stiffed me with the tab. About five years later, the guy was my server. You could tell that he thought he recognized me but just not quite sure. I paid the bill leaving no tip. As I left I told him that I had applied the cost of his sushi to the tip. He recognized me then.

[I_r_a]

Hi Folks,

 

To avoid this problem on future cruises, you can consult http://www.imcconcerts.com for the yearly Gospel Cruise

 

Ira

[LMaxwell]

Not at all. Removing the HSC does not affect HAL's bottom line, but it does affect the crew's individual finances. Stiffing the crew does not apply pressure on management in Seattle, it solely affects the working class members of the crew.

 

Hand the crew cash.

 

Deny HAL the revenue. The cash can't be tracked. No one is shaking down the crew every time they go off duty. That's just pure non-sense. HAL is being disingenuous booking groups of 20% or more of the ship and giving them preferential treatment over other guests. Pools closed off on sea days? Crows Nest closed many afternoons and evenings? And you would hand HAL the full hotel charges and be happy about it?

 

Hand the crew cash.

 

If HAL didn't want people to have any say in the hotel service charges they would made it mandatory, compulsory, and not subject to guest discretion or modification. They have not done so.

 

Hand the crew cash.