Notification FRom HAL re: dining on Westerdam 2/20

[RocketMan275]

It has nothing to do with group's privacy. :rolleyes:

They often have websites/ads on the web where those interested can learn about their group and presumably book.

 

 

Many have reported that different cruise lines have said they cannot release information on groups due to privacy concerns. While the group can certainly release any information they wish, the cruise lines says they cannot. As I said, this could easily be circumvented if the cruise lines insisted upon a privacy for all groups on board allowing the cruise line to release the information. It simply isn't in the cruise lines interest to release that information so privacy is a good excuse.

[LMaxwell]

Au contraire. No one's money is any better or worse than anyone else's. It's just that the group has more money than anyone else.

 

I do wish the cruise lines would adopt some policies.

 

Charters within 12 months of a cruise owe booked passengers 100% of their booked fare. Paid by the booking TA. No charters within 6 months of sailing.

 

No group larger than 20% of capacity. Nor can the sum of the groups exceed 20% of capacity.

 

Groups larger than 10% of capacity must be disclosed on the line's website.

 

No venue can be reserved more than once on a six day cruise or less. No more than twice on a cruise of less than 14 days.

 

TAs must post a bond for their customers behavior. The bond is forfeit and used for compensation should a group attempt to bar other passengers from a venue.

 

Sounds good to me.

[LMaxwell]

Many have reported that different cruise lines have said they cannot release information on groups due to privacy concerns. While the group can certainly release any information they wish, the cruise lines says they cannot. As I said, this could easily be circumvented if the cruise lines insisted upon a privacy for all groups on board allowing the cruise line to release the information. It simply isn't in the cruise lines interest to release that information so privacy is a good excuse.

 

The cruise lines can say whatever they want. They choose not to disclose this information because it has the potential, obviously, to harm individual bookings. I agree, it is a convenient excuse for them to use privacy.

 

 

Or; when a Signature of Excellence is really just a Scribble of Shoddiness.

[3rdGenCunarder]

Well those would be great policies but it isn't happening for this cruise unfortunately. My travel agent said he had never heard of this happening and he's been doing this 15 years. How is that possible? At this point I'm going to go (after all there's no refund!) with the hope that it will be a great cruise. If I'm not allowed in a venue I really want to be in (like the pool), I will definitely complain both on the ship and to my travel agent. And maybe I would have the nerve to go in anyway and see what they did-after all I paid to use the venue. And it's supposed to be a Christian group...

 

Part of the excitement of the cruise is the time leading up to it; the picking out of excursions, picking out the specialty restaurants, packing, and trying to learn as much about the ship as possible. I must say that after reading about what is happening on this/my cruise all the excitement has been sucked out.

 

The wife has been very upset and has already told me she will create a problem if we are not allowed to eat when and where we want and go when or where we want, something I am not looking forward to. I am the one who is laid back, goes with the flow, who makes lemonade from lemons but she is right in the fact that we paid our hard earned money for this cruise.

 

I'm hoping HAL will try to steer people away but will not restrict people. This is our first time on HAL and I'm hoping it will not be our last but that remains to be seen.

 

Definitely complain onboard. As soon as you find a venue closed, go to the front desk and ask what's going on. Ask if this is going to happen for the whole cruise. Then express disappointment that you aren't getting what you paid for. Start nice, and if they stonewall, ask for a meeting with the Hotel Manager. Be nice as long as you can, and if they shrug you off, forget the lemonade and get angry. Sad to say, sometimes they don't listen until you LOUDLY DEMAND a talk with the HM. You might find that others in the line say "Yeah, me too!"

 

I would also keep a list of venues/events you couldn't attend because of the group. At the end of the cruise, if nothing has been done for you, send that list to HAL with a letter of complaint. I hate it when people come on here and whine and say they should have compensation. But in this case, the value of what you paid for is likely to be far less than what you were led to believe when you bought it. I hope HAL does something to make up the difference for you.

Edited February 15, 2016 by 3rdGenCunarder

[Cindy]

I would be very upset to learn that I would not be able to eat at my desired time and/or would have major ship venues off limits to me because of a large group (partial charter).

 

I understand how lucrative these bookings are for the cruise lines, but I also think there needs to be some industry standards that protect the rights of the consumer. In my opinion, relegating anyone who isn't part of a group to dining before 6:30 or eating in the buffet is unacceptable. Having the theater, Crow's Nest, a pool, or any other major public space off limits to independent customers for a substantial amount of time is not OK. Selling the cruise by advertising those things and then notifying passengers after final payment they won't be available is disingenuous at best. I see it as a breech of contract since the cruise line won't be providing the services and venues that were purchased. I know I'm probably off the mark though...I'm sure there's something in the contract that absolves the cruise lines of any responsibility to provide what they said they'd provide.:mad:

 

I also agree with the poster who said there should be a cut-off for chartering a ship and cancelling non-group member reservations. I think once airline reservations open for booking would be reasonable, but it seems like I read angry posts all the time from people who already have expensive air and hotel arrangements and then find their cruise chartered.

 

I will be interested in hearing how things go on this sailing. It looks like the same Christian tour company also has space booked on the following cruise. Quite a disappointment for anyone booked on the Westerdam this month.:(

Edited February 15, 2016 by Cindy

[RocketMan275]

 

I'm not seeing this follow-on cruise. Can you expand on that? We're embarking Westy on 5 March.

 

Never mind, It's the Gaither group 27 feb to 5 March.

Edited February 15, 2016 by RocketMan275

[bd1958]

Yes. we're also on the Westie March 5. It appears the Christian group will be getting off as we get on.

 

Let's hope for a great cruise! this has been an interesting and revealing thread, which could only happen on this kind of site. I hope it leads to better communication by the cruise lines, which all seem to engage in this kind of deception.

 

Bruce

[RocketMan275]

Yes. we're also on the Westie March 5. It appears the Christian group will be getting off as we get on.

 

Let's hope for a great cruise! this has been an interesting and revealing thread, which could only happen on this kind of site. I hope it leads to better communication by the cruise lines, which all seem to engage in this kind of deception.

 

Bruce

 

I wouldn't count on the cruise lines changing. There simply isn't a compelling reason that they would do so.

 

I've seen worse. The first cruise I booked on Holland was chartered out from under me. I found out about it on this website and cancelled while I still had time to make other arrangements. What torqued me was that for several weeks after the tour operator was selling the cruise as a full ship charter, HAL was still taking reservations on the same cruise.

[Cruising-along]

I finally got my answer this morning re the number of people in the Mercy Me At Sea group who will be on the 2nd half of my Koningsdam Caribbean cruise next January. Up to 650 :eek: :(

 

The reason for the limit is "the size of the showroom"..... :(

 

Yes we could cancel, but this is the 2nd half of a 14-day cruise and friends are going on the first half who we don't see often enough (opposite coasts). And flying across country isn't worth it to us for only 7 days. Ugh.

[Hlitner]

This has been one of our biggest complaints about all the major cruise lines for many decades. The lines will book large groups on some cruises (we have been on ships where over half the passengers are part of a single group) and these groups literally take over major venues of the ship at specific times. Hence, you might find yourself totally closed out of late seating, not having access to the Crows Nest on many evenings, and even being closed out of some major entertainment venues (like the main theater) at various times when the large groups have their own entertainment. This is especially true if you a have a large religious/gospel group, jazz cruise, etc.

 

We have long advocated that cruise line's should inform all independent cruisers of such a situation (well in advance of the cruise) and offer them different cruising options. We also think potential cruisers should be notified "before they book" that the cruise they are booking will have a large group aboard.

 

Currently, the only option is to Google a specific cruise ship and date....before you book a cruise and again, before making your final payment. If there is a large group or groups you will often find info on the internet.

 

Hank

[3rdGenCunarder]

I wouldn't count on the cruise lines changing. There simply isn't a compelling reason that they would do so.

 

I've seen worse. The first cruise I booked on Holland was chartered out from under me. I found out about it on this website and cancelled while I still had time to make other arrangements. What torqued me was that for several weeks after the tour operator was selling the cruise as a full ship charter, HAL was still taking reservations on the same cruise.

 

That should be illegal! They shouldn't be selling something that is not available!

 

 

I finally got my answer this morning re the number of people in the Mercy Me At Sea group who will be on the 2nd half of my Koningsdam Caribbean cruise next January. Up to 650 :eek: :(

 

The reason for the limit is "the size of the showroom"..... :(

 

Yes we could cancel, but this is the 2nd half of a 14-day cruise and friends are going on the first half who we don't see often enough (opposite coasts). And flying across country isn't worth it to us for only 7 days. Ugh.

 

Well, that tells you something, doesn't it??? I hope there's good entertainment in the smaller venues.

[Cruising-along]

That should be illegal! They shouldn't be selling something that is not available!

 

 

 

 

Well, that tells you something, doesn't it??? I hope there's good entertainment in the smaller venues.

 

 

Yes, plain as day. :(

[tedcruise]

Anyone ever cruise with a Road Scholars group?:confused:

[joepeka]

Anyone ever cruise with a Road Scholars group?:confused:

 

I have not but there have been a few comments on this thread and the other thread with the February dry dock and group cruise update (http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=2309427) showing most people reporting that the Road Scholars tend to be small (40-50 or less). If that is typical, you probably wouldn't even notice them.

Edited February 15, 2016 by joepeka

[RocketMan275]

That should be illegal! They shouldn't be selling something that is not available!

 

One would have thought so, but as it was explained to me, tour operators often book charters as contingent upon them selling sufficient cabins. If not, they can back out possibly forfeiting a deposit. The cruise line doesn't really know whether the charter will actually go through so they continue to sell cabins.

 

OK, I can understand why the cruise lines would think that is just peachy but their customers might not. I'd be content if the cruise line told those who wanted to book that cruise that there was a contingent charter. But, they won't.

 

In my case, I had a very nice aft wrap booked. Suppose the charter went through. The cruise line would offer me an alternative. Suppose no aft wraps were available. You know the cruise line would take the position that there were plenty of suitable alternatives available.

[RocketMan275]

Anyone ever cruise with a Road Scholars group?:confused:

 

Road Scholar is an American not-for-profit organization that provides educational travel tours primarily geared to older adults. The organization is headquartered in Boston, Massachusetts. Wikipedia.

 

Not sure I'd worry about that. In fact, you might want to spend some time with them.

[3rdGenCunarder]

One would have thought so, but as it was explained to me, tour operators often book charters as contingent upon them selling sufficient cabins. If not, they can back out possibly forfeiting a deposit. The cruise line doesn't really know whether the charter will actually go through so they continue to sell cabins.

 

OK, I can understand why the cruise lines would think that is just peachy but their customers might not. I'd be content if the cruise line told those who wanted to book that cruise that there was a contingent charter. But, they won't.

 

In my case, I had a very nice aft wrap booked. Suppose the charter went through. The cruise line would offer me an alternative. Suppose no aft wraps were available. You know the cruise line would take the position that there were plenty of suitable alternatives available.

 

The aft wrap is SB, so they'd give you one of the SAs on the side and tell you it was an upgrade. But as someone who loves the aft wrap, I wouldn't be happy with that.

[sail7seas]

 

<snip>

 

Currently, the only option is to Google a specific cruise ship and date....before you book a cruise and again, before making your final payment. If there is a large group or groups you will often find info on the internet.

 

Hank

 

If you google to seek information about a potential group being aboard a cruise in which you are interested, be sure to scroll more than just the first page of results that appear. Sometimes the group information is found 'down the list'.

 

[RocketMan275]

The aft wrap is SB, so they'd give you one of the SAs on the side and tell you it was an upgrade. But as someone who loves the aft wrap, I wouldn't be happy with that.

 

Exactly. On Westy, we have an aft wrap on five. There is only one other cabin that would compare.

[3rdGenCunarder]

Exactly. On Westy, we have an aft wrap on five. There is only one other cabin that would compare.

 

The one on the other side? :D

[Old As Dirt Mom]

Perhaps this has already been mentioned, and if so, I apologize. Would posting this issue on HAL's facebook page be possible, and would it be helpful? I'm not on FB, so I don't know.

[Tina G]

Sometimes a group can work to your advantage. Some years ago, on Princess, we were shut out of the cheap cabins by a large Russian group, but we had booked early, so we were upgraded to an ocean view. That made me very happy, and some of the Russians were incredibly talented pianists. The ship's pianist was quite intimidated. He talked to me about it. (Yeah. They can read music.)

[detroit70]

I was on the Eastern Caribbean cruise on the Eurodam in January when the Inspiration group was also on board. I had a dinner reservation every night at 6:45, which worked for me, but I don't at all diminish the concerns about those who wish to eat later.

 

Nevertheless there were also some advantages and I posted this on social media while on board: "The advantages of having 980 members of the gospel group, "Inspiration," on your 2,000 passenger ship: bars are never crowded, no problem getting a seat at a show or concert, you don't have to arrive a half hour early for Trivia or the Marriage Game, and they're not interested in talking with anyone not in their group so you can read your book uninterrupted if you end up amidst them on a long ride to an excursion. Except during port and meal times, they are locked in the Main Stage Theater with guys in suits guarding the doors until they emerge for dinner at 8:00, and then the shows begin for the rest of us."

 

I was also almost always able to get a recliner by the front windows in the Crows Nest!

 

So again, I understand the concerns so many of you have shared, but I also found some definite advantages on this one particular cruise with this one particular group.

[alibabacruisers]

Perhaps this has already been mentioned, and if so, I apologize. Would posting this issue on HAL's facebook page be possible, and would it be helpful? I'm not on FB, so I don't know.

 

I did that although I am not as eloquent in my speech as lots of those on these threads. Here is a copy and paste from what I did...sorry if I did not explain as well as you other guys may think but I just felt soooo bad at the way regular passengers got treated that I wanted to do something, anything. So below is what I said and what came after....:o

 

Isn't there some way that HAL can allow regular cruise passengers to enjoy their cruise entirely

without being denied access to venues or dining times when large groups are onboard?

 

 

Holland America Line Hi Barbara, thank you for your question and feedback. We have forwarded your suggestion to our senior management team to consider for future voyages. We do apologize about the disappointment regarding this policy. For additional feedback please our Guest Relations Department at guestrelations@hollandamerica.com. We hope you found this information useful and happy cruising.

 

Like · Reply · Yesterday at 8:34am

 

 

Another person's comments: I totally agree. We pay for FULL use of the ship and you are putting a large portion of it off limits if you are not a member of the group. Says we are not important to you.[/i]

Edited February 16, 2016 by alibabacruisers

[RocketMan275]

The one on the other side? :D

 

The only other one.