Another Attack in Turkey

[sail7seas]

There are a great many European itineraries available that do not include Turkey, if passengers do not wish to travel there.

 

I would suggest the ship's reasons for cancellation would likely revolve more around whether there is a significant risk to the safety of passengers and ship.

 

Yes, of course, there are plenty of European itineraries that do not include Turkey. However, this conversation centers on Turkey.

 

Ship's/Cruise Line's cancellation decisions will center close to entirely upon safely of crew, ship and guests.

 

[Fragile-Beauty]

I too am a little nervous as we sail on the Koningsdam on April 15. I really want to go to Kusadasi and Istanbul.

 

As of last week before the latest incident we were still a go for Turkey. I do hope they give us advanced notice if they cancel these two stops.

[KirkNC]

I'm not so sure all the North American travelers who might cruise that region actually know who attacks tourists....... Kurds ? ISIS ? The traveler who might/will cancel a visit there do not necessarily differentiate.

 

 

Valid point, many will just hear there was violence.

[veryseasonedtraveler]

Mmmmmm Mother-in-law' date=' I guess you could make that comparison. But then you could also liken Australia's stance to that of a mother trying to protect her brood. Depends which way you look at it, doesnt it.

 

 

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Wish I had a "like button."

[spookyfudge]

With all the violance in Turkey, should I cancell my cruise their, switch to another line that dosnt visit Turkey or just stay on the ship while it docks at Turkey. Please let me know, getting close to last payment time. Thanks:mad:

[Bell Boy]

I too am a little nervous as we sail on the Koningsdam on April 15. I really want to go to Kusadasi and Istanbul.

 

As of last week before the latest incident we were still a go for Turkey. I do hope they give us advanced notice if they cancel these two stops.

 

I am a little concerned also, as I'm sailing on the Koningsdam April 8th. Yesterday March 19th, tourists (one American and two Irish) were killed in an Istanbul market street .

The (UK) Foreign and Commonwealth Office have now advised that all travel to Istanbul/Turkey should be avoided except for essential travel.

 

It's now time that HAL notified their (immediate) guests who are booked to cruise to this area, of a revised itinerary.

Edited March 21, 2016 by Bell Boy

[chefestelle]

Canada has not issued such an advisory (yet) but this is posted on the security page with respect to travelling in Turkey:

There are reports of planned attacks on March 20, 2016, and around the Kurdish New Year (Nevruz), which is celebrated March 21-23. Turkish officials have warned of the use of Vehicle Borne Improvised Explosive Devices (VBIED) targeting the Justice and Development Party (AKP)’s office buildings and the Grand National Assembly of Turkey. Other targeted locations include: military campuses, diplomatic missions, tourist attractions, airports, sensitive regions, shopping malls, city centres, public transportation and transit stations, protest and prayer locations, public buildings, and police and military checkpoints.

 

There are also regular local media reports of planned attacks against such targets as Syrian opposition officials, Turkish security and military installations, areas with high pedestrian traffic, such as hotels, shopping malls, public transit stations, and open air bazaars in Ankara, Antakya (Hatay), Gaziantep and Istanbul.

 

Be aware of your surroundings at all times and exercise a high degree of vigilance, particularly in the areas listed above. You should also be particularly cautious when in commercial establishments, public and crowded places, busy streets, long queues at tourist attractions and other areas where large numbers of people, particularly foreigners, may gather.

 

 

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[SuperMonna]

Hi Florida Tourist,

We are on our first European cruise at the end of May. How will the cruise line let us know if the Turkey ports are cancelled? Is it only via email or do we have to check the HAL website on a regular basis?

Thanks, Supermonna

[leleroma]

I am a little concerned also, as I'm sailing on the Koningsdam April 8th. Yesterday March 19th, tourists (one American and two Irish) were killed in an Istanbul market street .

The (UK) Foreign and Commonwealth Office have now advised that all travel to Istanbul/Turkey should be avoided except for essential travel.

 

It's now time that HAL notified their (immediate) guests who are booked to cruise to this area, of a revised itinerary.

 

 

 

It's time to make itinerary changes...

[Hows the Serenity]

We have been to Turkey many times.Last year, we were on Nieuw Amsterdam and that was our sixth time in Istanbul and we will go there again this summer.

 

 

 

About 38 million tourists come to Turkey annually to enjoy its history, culture, cuisine, people, activities and natural beauty.

 

Several bomb attacks in recent months have rightly horrified the world - including the very last one happened in Brussels - . Their purpose was less to hurt many people than to put political pressure on the Turkish government and economy.

 

 

 

This is how terrorists seek to do greater damage than their limited resources would normally permit: by harming a tiny proportion, they seek to frighten millions and to inflict huge economic damage on their adversaries.

 

 

 

It is inevitable that many travelers will be frightened and will postpone plans to visit Turkey, even though the danger from terrorism is statistically very, very tiny. Other dangers are far more to be feared than being harmed in a terrorist attack, and we don't worry (much) about those other dangers: earthquake, highway and sports accidents, drowning while swimming, or evendrowning in your own bathtub—on average, one person drowns in his/her own bathtub nearly every day in the USA.

 

 

 

38 million (the number of travelers who visited Turkey in 2015) is more than the entire populations of most European countries, or Canada, or Australia. So imagine all the people in Canada going to Turkey at once. Should all of them be afraid of harm? If any of them were harmed, what are the most likely dangers? Are they safer at home, or not?

 

 

 

As for me, I'm in Turkey as I write this (March 2016). On March 19th, a suicide bomber detonated his device on busy İstiklal Caddesi, killing himself and four civilians, and wounding dozens of others, including 12 foreign visitors. Following the US Department of State's advice, I'm avoiding crowded places—including İstiklal Caddesi—so I was far from the incident. I learned about it like everyone else: via the media.

 

 

 

This year there are shorter lines to enter Turkey's top sights, smaller crowds, lower prices, and an even warmer welcome from the famously hospitable Turkish people.

 

 

 

I haven't come to Turkey to defy the terrorists, or to support my Turkish friends (although I do), or because I am particularly courageous. I'm here to enjoy myself, to enjoy again is spectacular architecture, profound history and culture, and wonderful cuisine, and I don't believe I will be in any great danger (and I will avoid the Single Male Scam robberies in Istanbul.)

 

 

 

But don't get me wrong. I don't blame some travelers for acting on emotion and changing their plans to visit Turkey now. The murder of innocent travelers is horrific and terrifying. Some travelers may believe there are safer places to go on a trip.

 

 

 

But where is "safer?" In recent years, Boston, New York, Washington, London, Paris - and today Brussels - and many other top travel destinations have suffered attacks by terrorists foreign or domestic. Every day in the USA, 297 people are shot in murders, assaults, suicides, unintentional shootings and police intervention. Every day, 48 children and teenagers are shot. Seven, on average, die.

 

 

 

I live in the USA. Am I afraid? No. Do I take sensible precautions? Yes. Are they certain to protect me? No. There is no completely safe place on earth, not even your own bathtub.

 

 

 

Turkey is probably no more dangerous, and may be safer, than where you live.

 

 

 

If every day's media blared headlines of all violent deaths, we'd all be too scared to leave our homes. (Just don't take too long a bath...)

 

 

 

I was in Istanbul in August, October and November 2015. The weather was somewhat rainy at first, but otherwise all was well and I had a great time as usual.

 

 

 

I would guess that nearly a million foreign tourists were in Turkey on January 12, 2016: in Istanbul, Cappadocia,Ephesus, along the Mediterranean coast, etc. Twenty-five of them were directly involved in a deadly incident.9,999,603 were not, just like the 318,899,820 (out of 318,900,000) Americans who were not harmed by gun violence this year.

 

 

 

Sue

 

 

Hi Sue,

 

In principle I agree with you.

But HAL has to make decisions based in on what they are advised by both the government and their insurance companies if one or some of their passengers are caught in something like what has recently happened.

We are sailing on the Eurodam May 6th and calling in to Istanbul, Ephesus and Lesvos.

I am in two minds, I wish to see these wonderful places but I am hesitant.

We will see what HAL does.

 

Chris

 

 

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[Minoushka]

The state dept has now issued travel warnings for all of Europe .They feel attackscould be anywhere ....oy ...oy ...ou 😪😢

 

So is HAL still taking a chance with Turkey .....when will they change itinerary ???

Edited March 24, 2016 by mmemichele

[cruisemom42]

The state dept has now issued travel warnings for all of Europe .They feel attackscould be anywhere ....oy ...oy ...ou 😪😢

 

So is HAL still taking a chance with Turkey .....when will they change itinerary ???

 

Let me repost what I already posted on another forum:

 

a) It is a worldwide travel caution, NOT a warning against travel. It merely advises travelers to "maintain a high level of vigilance and take appropriate steps to increase their security awareness."

 

b) It is not "extraordinary", it is replacing an earlier caution.

 

c) It is not specific to Europe but includes the Middle East, Africa and Asia as well -- so, pretty much everywhere outside the Americas.

 

 

Anyone can go to the State Department website and see the actual warning rather than repeating hyperbole from the media.

 

https://travel.state.gov/content/pas...e-caution.html

 

 

 

You seem to be somewhat fixated on the issue of travel to Turkey -- why not just book a cruise that does not include any stops there?

[RuthC]

c) It is not specific to Europe but includes the Middle East, Africa and Asia as well -- so, pretty much everywhere outside the Americas.

The State Dept. should include the Americas, too. After all, there have been attacks in both the USA and Canada; there's no reason to believe there couldn't be new ones anywhere in North or South America.

 

People express such concern about places where attacks have taken place, but that's an equivalent of locking the barn door after the horse is stolen. Just because an attack took place somewhere doesn't make it more likely to happen there again; it probably makes it less likely.

The element of surprise is part of what the terrorists count on. Time and place are both part of that.

[jennjess]

Excellent post and I agree!

 

If you let fear stop you travelling where you wish to go then the terrorists have won! Don't let them win!

 

This was a reply to Sue but the quote function doesn't seem to be working for me.

Edited March 24, 2016 by jennjess

[cruisemom42]

The State Dept. should include the Americas, too. After all, there have been attacks in both the USA and Canada; there's no reason to believe there couldn't be new ones anywhere in North or South America.

 

People express such concern about places where attacks have taken place, but that's an equivalent of locking the barn door after the horse is stolen. Just because an attack took place somewhere doesn't make it more likely to happen there again; it probably makes it less likely.

The element of surprise is part of what the terrorists count on. Time and place are both part of that.

 

I agree. If we are going to put out such a broad and undefined alert then the Americas are not exempt.

[Hows the Serenity]

Let me repost what I already posted on another forum:

 

 

 

You seem to be somewhat fixated on the issue of travel to Turkey -- why not just book a cruise that does not include any stops there?

 

 

Dear Cruisemoma,

I know we seem to be "somewhat fixated on Turkey", but considering the refugees are mainly coming through Turkey from Syria and making their way to Lesvos etc through this corridor is it surprising?

Our Prime Minister (Austalian - Malcolm Turnbull), has spoken about Europe's Open Door policy and the ramifications this is now bringing, including ISIS/ISIL using the refugee crisis to "export" terrorism with easy access to the west.

Secondly, we booked our cruise back in January last year, so had no idea then that Turkey was going to be a target, nor that Lesvos was going to be a major jump off point for the refugees.

Thirdly, we do not care where we cruise, we have holidayed on Santorini and Crete in the past and would be more than happy to substitute the likes of those or other ports in the vicinity if this is what HAL decides.

Fourthly, many other cruise lines have already adjusted their itineraries in this region for the sake of "passenger safety".

I think the safety issue is the key here (and if HAL is advised it is safe to travel to Turkey with over 2000 passengers onboard so be it, I'm in).

Also the other ports that are included in our itinerary we also want to visit, so why would we choose another cruise?

This is a discussion in regard to "safety" after the actions of a few.

I would very dearly love to go to Turkey, but not at the expense of safety...................

Chris

 

 

 

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[cruisemom42]

Dear Cruisemoma' date='

I know we seem to be "somewhat fixated on Turkey", but considering the refugees are mainly coming through Turkey from Syria and making their way to Lesvos etc through this corridor is it surprising?

Our Prime Minister (Austalian - Malcolm Turnbull), has spoken about Europe's Open Door policy and the ramifications this is now bringing, including ISIS/ISIL using the refugee crisis to "export" terrorism with easy access to the west.

Secondly, we booked our cruise back in January last year, so had no idea then that Turkey was going to be a target, nor that Lesvos was going to be a major jump off point for the refugees.

Thirdly, we do not care where we cruise, we have holidayed on Santorini and Crete in the past and would be more than happy to substitute the likes of those or other ports in the vicinity if this is what HAL decides.

Fourthly, many other cruise lines have already adjusted their itineraries in this region for the sake of "passenger safety".

I think the safety issue is the key here (and if HAL is advised it is safe to travel to Turkey with over 2000 passengers onboard so be it, I'm in).

Also the other ports that are included in our itinerary we also want to visit, so why would we choose another cruise?

This is a discussion in regard to "safety" after the actions of a few.

I would very dearly love to go to Turkey, but not at the expense of safety...................

Chris

 

[/quote']

 

 

I was responding to the specific poster, not in general. She has posted 3-4 times in as many days on the same topic and is not even booked on a cruise. It appears she wants to book a specific cruise but only if HAL drops the ports in Turkey. A couple of her earlier posts:

 

Im not sure why I amnot surprised this happened ....sosad 😪😢.Thank heaven I did not bookacruise from Venice to Turkey as everyone around me said do not go now after Ankara massacre .

They were right ...Turkeywill be onback burner for a whilenow ....I do feel bad for anyone caught in that mess .Hope you recover quickly .Terrorists arekilling your much needed tourist industry .....I feel for you in many ways ...

But now where will Eurodam go ....if it doesgo to other nice places ....i may still take it

When will Holland ..tell us ???

To those going soon I hope youwill remain safe

 

Will Holland cancel these soon .I reallywould prefervto avoid all ports in Turkey asit seems tourists are targetted .no need to buy trouble with money

I still want the Aug 22 cruise but no Turkey stops .....i would love to see Crete or Malta

How soon before they de cidewhat to do ?

 

 

Well, wouldn't we all like to cherry pick our own itinerary? :D

 

I do understand the concerns of those booked. But I think most people will tell you universally that the cruise lines are very risk averse in general, and if they have any concerns about a specific port, they will not call there.

 

For me, they play it a bit TOO safe, looking at cancellations in the past. They are not risk takers, not with potentially 2500 lives and a very expensive piece of property at stake.

[Hows the Serenity]

:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Well, wouldn't we all like to cherry pick our own itinerary? :D

 

 

 

I do understand the concerns of those booked. But I think most people will tell you universally that the cruise lines are very risk averse in general, and if they have any concerns about a specific port, they will not call there.

 

 

 

For me, they play it a bit TOO safe, looking at cancellations in the past. They are not risk takers, not with potentially 2500 lives and a very expensive piece of property at stake.

 

 

I guess they cannot afford to be risk takers, their insurance companies would eat them alive if anything happened after adverse advice to cruise to suspect ports.

I too dont mind taking a few risks, we still went to Paris after the terrorist attacks last year and would go again.

My concern with the cruise is if HAL are going to change the itinerary when will we know.........we have private tours booked in these ports and would like to cancel & book others in the new ports if this is to be the case.

We leave home in 5 weeks to start the long journey to Venice and would like to be "prepared" if there are going to be changes.

Chris

 

 

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[Fragile-Beauty]

I am on the Koningsdam sailing April 15. We sail to Istanbul and Kusadasi. If I were a betting person (which I am) if HAL plans on changing the itinerary it will be made known to us once we are onboard. I personally feel that they do not want us to know in advance.

 

Just like Chris, this makes me uneasy as I have booked private tours and put down deposits which I probably cannot get back because I will not be notifying them a couple of weeks in advance.

 

Where HAL wants to go that they think is safe is fine with me, but just tell me in advance.

[Hows the Serenity]

I am on the Koningsdam sailing April 15. We sail to Istanbul and Kusadasi. If I were a betting person (which I am) if HAL plans on changing the itinerary it will be made known to us once we are onboard. I personally feel that they do not want us to know in advance.

 

 

 

Just like Chris, this makes me uneasy as I have booked private tours and put down deposits which I probably cannot get back because I will not be notifying them a couple of weeks in advance.

 

 

 

Where HAL wants to go that they think is safe is fine with me, but just tell me in advance.

 

 

That's it in a nutshell - well said

Chris

 

 

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[spookyfudge]

We may cancel our European trip and stay in the states, to dangerous now to travel overseas

 

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[idiebabe]

I am on the Koningsdam sailing April 15. We sail to Istanbul and Kusadasi. If I were a betting person (which I am) if HAL plans on changing the itinerary it will be made known to us once we are onboard. I personally feel that they do not want us to know in advance.

 

Just like Chris, this makes me uneasy as I have booked private tours and put down deposits which I probably cannot get back because I will not be notifying them a couple of weeks in advance.

 

Where HAL wants to go that they think is safe is fine with me, but just tell me in advance.

 

Check and see if your Private Tour Ops have a Force Majeure clause whereby they refund 100% if the Ship does not dock. If a Tour Op does not refund for that reason, then don't book with them! A reputable Tour Op will not keep your deposit if the Ship does not Port!

[Hows the Serenity]

We may cancel our European trip and stay in the states, to dangerous now to travel overseas

 

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I dont think it is any more dangerous than your own United States, probably more likely to get shot etc there than in Europe really.

 

 

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