Interesting article about the Haven

[jmele999]

http://mobile.nytimes.com/2016/04/24/business/economy/velvet-rope-economy.html?partner=rss&emc=rss&smid=tw-nytimes&smtyp=cur&_r=1&referer=

[pieshops]

What a bunch of BS, that liberal rag NY Times. Why does this need to be broken down into class systems and the have and have nots?

 

We cruise once a year, we are far from rich, we own our own catering business and both me an my wife put in over 100 hours each week 9 months a year so we can afford to be pampered for a week or 2 on a cruise. I am no better then anyone else, just work my ass off to enjoy myself

[jewelmick]

All true.

 

 

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Forums mobile app

[murfette]

We do suites also and far from rich! We save a bit longer to go. Anyone can be in a suite if they want. You get what you pay for. Same as anything else.

[Cruiser Bruiser]

Thanks for sharing this very interesting article. I found the most fascinating aspect to be all the commentary on attitude and expectations. (That's something we discuss a lot on CC, especially as it relates to folks' perceptions of their cruises.) In that regard, I found this, from RCI's CEO, to be the most fascinating quote:

 

"Since the late 1990s, however, “there has been a huge evolution, maybe a revolution in attitudes,” Mr. Goldstein said. In addition to larger rooms or softer sheets, big spenders want to be coddled nowadays. “They are looking for constant validation that they are a higher-value customer,” he said."

 

As a self-described value oriented consumer, I already feel like cruising is as close to Downton Abbey you can get on a vacation. Some folks need more, I guess. As long as those super spenders are subsidizing the cost of my vacation, I have no problem. But when these high spenders demand more services that take away from my experience, I might become a little less happy about the caste system.

[April42749]

The truly affluent will go on a line that caters to truly affluent.

 

In IMHO....the Haven reminds me of the very old TV called "Queen For A Day"...where regular women were treated like royalty for a day. If people want to pay so they can get snacks brought to them by a butler and escorted to the theater etc...that's good for them, and good for me because it subsidizes my trip.

 

While I'm sure there are some wealthy people who book the Haven, if they are looking for their peers, they won't find them here. They'll find regular working class people who worked hard to afford an indulgence.

 

My opinion is based on Haven reviews that I've read over the years. Most by very nice people....not many by very rich people (judging by their jobs).

Edited April 23, 2016 by April42749

[CruisingPiper]

As some of the other posters have mentioned, I work hard and use those $ to personalize my cruise experience. Yes, I have a Haven Aft suite and take advantage of those services, but I worked hard to make that choice. Some people spend $$$ on excursions while I rarely get off the ship. Some people go to the extra tariff restaurants while I am happy at the buffet (yes, even with the Haven I happen to love the Garden Cafe!!).

 

I think what's great about cruising is that each family can customize their vacation to meet their needs and relaxation goals.

[jill5172]

It's a real stretch to tie the Haven experience to the broader issue of income inequality that afflicts this country. While the latter is a real thing, and something we should absolutely be discussing (elsewhere - we don't need to do it on CC :D ), the Haven is really just an aspirational experience. The truly wealthy would sooner give away their fortunes than patronize a mass-market cruise line.

[Merriem]

I thought the haven was very nice on the Breakaway. However I do not think the quality is there for the $$$. We can get a lot more on other lines. Not cruising on NCL again.

 

The article was a bit exaggerated IMHO, but yes, there are those of us that want nicer accommodations and perks.

[bobg529]

As some of the other posters have mentioned, I work hard and use those $ to personalize my cruise experience. Yes, I have a Haven Aft suite and take advantage of those services, but I worked hard to make that choice. Some people spend $$$ on excursions while I rarely get off the ship. Some people go to the extra tariff restaurants while I am happy at the buffet (yes, even with the Haven I happen to love the Garden Cafe!!).

 

I think what's great about cruising is that each family can customize their vacation to meet their needs and relaxation goals.

 

 

What you say is very true. In my case, I set a travel budget for myself. I personally prefer to take multiple vacations versus one with a fancier cabin and more services. That doesn't make anyone else's choices wrong, it's just mine. I do aspire to try the Haven if I can get an upsell at the right price, but I'm afraid once I try it I won't want to go back, lol.:rolleyes:

[Two Wheels Only]

I look at the article as if it was written for people who don't know about the Haven. It makes the reader say "Hey, those Haven guests are treated better than everyone else.....I WANT THAT!!!"

 

I think that it's great that there are many options for cruise guests.

 

I don't look at the Haven any differently than I look at other things that vary in price. A $10 watch will tell me the correct time the same way that a $100K watch will. I can choose how much I spend and not really care what others have spent.

 

4 guests in an inside stateroom will arrive at the exact same ports as a solo guest in a DOS. As long as everyone is happy with what they paid for, it's all good. Non-suite guests aren't "mistreated" because of suite guests. It's just a different experience. Suite guests shouldn't "look down" on non-suite guests and I have never experienced such behavior (although I'm sure it has happened).

 

Inside, ocean-view, balcony, mini-suite, suite, etc. are all options that guests can choose. I'd probably hate it if every room on the ship was identical and was the same price.

[hypercafe]

The Haven is nice and I enjoyed our trip in it. That being said I really do not think a rich person would give it or NCL a second glance. These days I think it's geared for upper middle class.

[NLH Arizona]

The Haven is nice and I enjoyed our trip in it. That being said I really do not think a rich person would give it or NCL a second glance. These days I think it's geared for upper middle class.

Totally agree. After sailing Crystal for many years, I doubt their higher-end customers would trade Crystal for NCL, even sailing in The Haven.

[Son of a son of a ...]

OP - Thank you for the article. I will have my butler review it and then provide me a summary after my spa.

[Merriem]

Totally agree. After sailing Crystal for many years, I doubt their higher-end customers would trade Crystal for NCL, even sailing in The Haven.

 

Agree 100%

[fshagan]

What a bunch of BS, that liberal rag NY Times. Why does this need to be broken down into class systems and the have and have nots?

 

We cruise once a year, we are far from rich, we own our own catering business and both me an my wife put in over 100 hours each week 9 months a year so we can afford to be pampered for a week or 2 on a cruise. I am no better then anyone else, just work my ass off to enjoy myself

 

You earn your money. Statistics don't look at that; they compare you to the guy that works 32 hours in a factory wishing he could be laid off so he could go fishing more. Or even the guy that works hard during the week, but work isn't anything more than just work. Your business is your life, and someone who has never been self employed will never realize that.

 

You deserve every penny you earn, and you shouldn't be paying the tax rates you are, because I know you are paying way too much.

 

Most of us don't realize we are rich. Household income of $163,000 ... that's less than $82,000 salary each for a husband and wife ... puts you in the top 5% that the NY Times is talking about. If you and your spouse each earn $65,000 a year you are in the top 10%. What if you both earn more than $38,000 a year? You are in the top 25% of wage earners. Next time you hear "tax the wealthy guys" realize that is you.

 

The Times story is silly. You have always been able to buy more luxury in travel, from hotels ... it seems to me we had both motels and high class hotels in the 1950's ... to airplanes (first class has always been more expensive).

 

I would rather have rich people spending their money than putting it in a mattress. I'm perfectly content to have the Haven provide services to people who want them to help pay for new ships I can go on in my balcony room. I'm not jealous or filled with envy or mad at the cruise line because those that choose to can buy an upscale vacation. I'm happy for the business, and happy for the people who can afford it because, for the vast majority of them, they have earned their money.

[pieshops]

You earn your money. Statistics don't look at that; they compare you to the guy that works 32 hours in a factory wishing he could be laid off so he could go fishing more. Or even the guy that works hard during the week, but work isn't anything more than just work. Your business is your life, and someone who has never been self employed will never realize that.

 

You deserve every penny you earn, and you shouldn't be paying the tax rates you are, because I know you are paying way too much.

 

Most of us don't realize we are rich. Household income of $163,000 ... that's less than $82,000 salary each for a husband and wife ... puts you in the top 5% that the NY Times is talking about. If you and your spouse each earn $65,000 a year you are in the top 10%. What if you both earn more than $38,000 a year? You are in the top 25% of wage earners. Next time you hear "tax the wealthy guys" realize that is you.

 

The Times story is silly. You have always been able to buy more luxury in travel, from hotels ... it seems to me we had both motels and high class hotels in the 1950's ... to airplanes (first class has always been more expensive).

 

I would rather have rich people spending their money than putting it in a mattress. I'm perfectly content to have the Haven provide services to people who want them to help pay for new ships I can go on in my balcony room. I'm not jealous or filled with envy or mad at the cruise line because those that choose to can buy an upscale vacation. I'm happy for the business, and happy for the people who can afford it because, for the vast majority of them, they have earned their money.

 

very well said

[DMH15]

I am far from wealthy but choose NCL suites and haven. Why? Be ause in my job I cater to others. On vacation I want to be carered to and unwind. I want to have zero stress. I love the extra space and what I feel is upgraded breakfasts.

 

I am lucky I have a job I love 25 plus years at and plenty of vacation days. I handle my money well and budget for what I want. I love my 10 year old car that has 100k miles and looks good. I only drive a few miles to work. Why spend money on a car. I would rather vacation.

 

To me, it is never about class or being better than anybody else. I make friends with folks all over the ship. Some are even my relatives. Haha.

 

I do not think the article, especially when talking about NCL, is altogether factual.

[Zigggypup]

This isn't any different from some hotels that have private floors and amenities for suite guests. If you can afford it, go for it.

[vicocala]

"Socialist Jingoism"

 

That said, this reporter probably took a haven suite just so they could get a tax write off for this story. :rolleyes:

[renata102]

Thanks for sharing this very interesting article. I found the most fascinating aspect to be all the commentary on attitude and expectations. (That's something we discuss a lot on CC, especially as it relates to folks' perceptions of their cruises.) In that regard, I found this, from RCI's CEO, to be the most fascinating quote:

 

"Since the late 1990s, however, “there has been a huge evolution, maybe a revolution in attitudes,” Mr. Goldstein said. In addition to larger rooms or softer sheets, big spenders want to be coddled nowadays. “They are looking for constant validation that they are a higher-value customer,” he said."

 

As a self-described value oriented consumer, I already feel like cruising is as close to Downton Abbey you can get on a vacation. Some folks need more, I guess. As long as those super spenders are subsidizing the cost of my vacation, I have no problem. But when these high spenders demand more services that take away from my experience, I might become a little less happy about the caste system.

 

It is taking away from the peons on cruises The caste system is an interesting way to state it, but very accurate.

[jmele999]

I decided to post the article because I felt that it was an over exaggeration about the attitude and expectations of Haven's guests as well as to the level of wealth of Haven guests. We are not rich but chose to pay a little bit more for the Haven and the non-haven suites to enjoy a quiet place and a bigger room. The article fails to mention that most of the Haven suites have been designed with families in mind, and that at times, it is cheaper or more convinient for a family of four to book a Haven suite than to book two separate balcony cabins.

 

I was also taken back by the quote from RCI Chairman regarding segregation. "Mr. Bayley and Royal Caribbean’s chairman, Richard Fain, say they ultimately decided against the ship-within-a-ship concept after studying the Haven. “That’s not the mojo or the culture of Royal Caribbean,” Mr. Bayley said. “The idea of segregating people into a class system is un-American. But if you live on Central Park, you are going to pay more. That’s how the system works.” However, isn't RCI now segregating passengers by class by offering a suite-only dinning venue?

Edited April 23, 2016 by jmele999

[NLH Arizona]

I decided to post the article because I felt that it was an over exaggeration about the attitude and expectations of Haven's guests as well as to the level of wealth of Haven guests. We are not rich but chose to pay a little bit more for the Haven and the non-haven suites to enjoy a quiet place and a bigger room. The article fails to mention that most of the Haven suites have been designed with families in mind, and that at times, it is cheaper or more convinient for a family of four to book a Haven suite than to book two separate balcony cabins.

 

I was also taken back by the quote from RCI Chairman regarding segregation. "Mr. Bayley and Royal Caribbean’s chairman, Richard Fain, say they ultimately decided against the ship-within-a-ship concept after studying the Haven. “That’s not the mojo or the culture of Royal Caribbean,” Mr. Bayley said. “The idea of segregating people into a class system is un-American. But if you live on Central Park, you are going to pay more. That’s how the system works.” However, isn't RCI now segregating passengers by class by offering a suite-only dinning venue?

And those in suites have access to what Celebrity calls their exclusive lounge, Michael's Club.

[timetaffy89]

This article is absolutely insane. I am a stay at home mom so we obviously have one income. It comes down to decisions and how you want to spend your money. We have decided that we would rather save our money and cruise once a year in the haven than cruise several times a year in a balcony. Just because we choose to sail in the haven does not make us rich and saying its segregating people into a class system is just ridiculous.

[sjbdtz]

You earn your money. Statistics don't look at that; they compare you to the guy that works 32 hours in a factory wishing he could be laid off so he could go fishing more. Or even the guy that works hard during the week, but work isn't anything more than just work. Your business is your life, and someone who has never been self employed will never realize that.

 

You deserve every penny you earn, and you shouldn't be paying the tax rates you are, because I know you are paying way too much.

 

Most of us don't realize we are rich. Household income of $163,000 ... that's less than $82,000 salary each for a husband and wife ... puts you in the top 5% that the NY Times is talking about. If you and your spouse each earn $65,000 a year you are in the top 10%. What if you both earn more than $38,000 a year? You are in the top 25% of wage earners. Next time you hear "tax the wealthy guys" realize that is you.

 

The Times story is silly. You have always been able to buy more luxury in travel, from hotels ... it seems to me we had both motels and high class hotels in the 1950's ... to airplanes (first class has always been more expensive).

 

I would rather have rich people spending their money than putting it in a mattress. I'm perfectly content to have the Haven provide services to people who want them to help pay for new ships I can go on in my balcony room. I'm not jealous or filled with envy or mad at the cruise line because those that choose to can buy an upscale vacation. I'm happy for the business, and happy for the people who can afford it because, for the vast majority of them, they have earned their money.

 

Very well said.

 

 

 

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