Maritime Time: ask some insiders about the insides of a ship

[chengkp75]

A 14-month contract, wow! :eek:

 

What are known as "tramping" articles (older ships doing non-scheduled runs wherever the cargo takes them) are typically 12 months. During the First Gulf War (1990), I was on the ship 15 out of 18 months.

[Copper10-8]

What are known as "tramping" articles (older ships doing non-scheduled runs wherever the cargo takes them) are typically 12 months. During the First Gulf War (1990), I was on the ship 15 out of 18 months.

 

And I thought four months at sea was a long time ;)

[Copper10-8]

................................

 

I have stood at muster stations headed by singers/dancers but assumed that they would not be the helmsmen, which left me wondering then, who could?

 

I am gaining wonderful insights from this thread. Thank you for continuing it. My DH has a niece who is a Radio/Electronics officer on container ships and I have learned a lot through her about the maritime world we participate in but from a joyfully shielded perspective.

 

Stay safe out there! m--

 

The cast members you saw at the muster drill were more than likely a still somewhat new position called 'communicator' chosen because, for the most part, their primary language is English

[Topsham]

A 14-month contract, wow! :eek:

 

 

 

14 months. Hmmm... short trip! :)

 

My cadetship, June 1970 to July 1974 managed to get home just twice.

 

In those days.. promotion up to 3rd Mate was good and quick.

 

My tickets were done up in Glasgow. Sea Dog... Warsash. Posh college. :) Who did you do your cadetship? Blue Star?

[rafinmd]

The cast members you saw at the muster drill were more than likely a still somewhat new position called 'communicator' chosen because, for the most part, their primary language is English

 

In my experience 'communicator' is a bit more than just primary language English. I see more of this on Crystal because with just 2 ships I'm more likely to recognize them, but I'm sure it's a more general thing. With their training and physical nature they know how to make their voices carry in a clear tone. When we call out the cabin number the lifeboat commander will often call out a number and get no response. After a couple of tries the singer/dancer will repeat the number in a loud clear tone and 9 times out of 10 there will be a prompt response.

 

I was also at a Celebrity Q&A with the show cast. The question came up and they said "we are certified to drive the lifeboats". Probably 3rd or 4th in line to do so but they do know how.

 

Roy

[Topsham]

And I thought four months at sea was a long time ;)

 

 

By 1977 I was no longer on those long trips. The company rule was 4 on 2 off. Some ships, depending on the ship and the staff on them, the leave rotation could be 4 on, 4 off. Superstar wages!

[RMLincoln]

The cast members you saw at the muster drill were more than likely a still somewhat new position called 'communicator' chosen because, for the most part, their primary language is English

 

And that is not a bad thing to have! We have seen this on other cruise line too, so it made me start wondering about who drives the lifeboat...

 

Usually the tender operators we have had seemed quite skilled, and often there is an officer with them (white shirt) or at least at the tender portal overseeing operations.

 

Maybe John, you could expound on this? Tender operations that is. Thanks for your service and you sharing. m--

[Copper10-8]

And that is not a bad thing to have! We have seen this on other cruise line too, so it made me start wondering about who drives the lifeboat...

 

Usually the tender operators we have had seemed quite skilled, and often there is an officer with them (white shirt) or at least at the tender portal overseeing operations.

 

Maybe John, you could expound on this? Tender operations that is. Thanks for your service and you sharing. m--

 

Tender ops involves a whole cast of 'characters'. It starts early with the first officer (1/O) running the show on 'boat' deck where he and the bosun are in charge of the sailors who will prepare the (usually four) tenders being freed from their lashings/housing positions, and lowered to that same boat/embarkation deck. There will be constant chatter between the 1/O (plus officer at the tender break) on one side and the staff captain on the bridge wing on the other side, who is overseeing the game plan/operation and will give permission to 'bring the tenders to boat deck', 'open the tender break', 'splash tender #12', etc.

 

There is always a "first tender ashore" which is reserved for the security officer (the white shirt you are referring to) The SO will be accompanied by one security guard and their 'tender dock equipment' (podium, 'last tender/all aboard' sign, backpack, clipboard, clicker, stanchions/expansion tape, etc.). So the SO and crew always 'rides' that tender down the side of the ship to be 'splashed' down. Permission is then asked from the staff captain to head ashore and go find the tender dock. In a new port , i.e. world voyage, that can, at times, be 'interesting' as well as challenging ;)

 

The SO might, might not, be accompanied by the aforementioned crew officer or PPO for clearance with the local authorities ashore however, more than likely those officials will take the same tender back to Mum (the ship) and proceed with the clearance there. The SO, guard and one sailor (he brings mooring lines for the tenders plus rubber fenders to place between the dock and tender) will be assigned to the tender dock (the SO, on the bigger ships, usually gets relieved by one of the security supervisors after the first hour/hour and a half (on the smaller ships, he is relieved by a deck officer for lunch only and then goes back ashore) They will be joined by two MAT team members (see below) whose job it is to assist the pax from, and into, the tenders alongside the dock. The SO will always be there (on the dock ashore) at the start and towards the end of tendering (to ensure that the pax and crew counts are accurate and no one is left behind past 'last tender' time). His call sign on the radio will be "shore-side" and he will be communicating with the "bridge" as well as with the "gangway" who both have computers connected to the passenger/crew system so that an accurate count can be obtained until that always welcome 'zero-zero' count can be established. That's why, on the Juneau webcam when NADM is tendering, you will hear the SO give a passenger count on how many pax (and crew) are on a tender leaving the dock and heading back to the ship

 

While all this is going on on boat deck, the LSA's (Life Saving Attendants) but more affectionately known as 'Boatmen' will have lowered one (or more) of the ship's tender platforms hydraulically, after which they will "rig" the platform (metal uprights to which rope railings are attached, mooring lines for the tenders, etc.) and attach the stairs, again hydraulically. There will be one sailor stationed on that platform along with two MAT members (mobility assist team shared by HK, dining room and Beverage staff) whose job it is to assist pax in and out of the tenders along with the sailor assigned to the tender itself (the helmsman stays seated behind his wheel and keeps the tender alongside the platform).

 

The second tender ashore carries the Dining room (usually the DRM goes along for the start) and their "stuff", i.e. the 'easy-up' (canopy/tent), the red carpet, chairs, tables, table cloths, plastic drinking cups (the containers with water and lemonade will come later) and will set up that stuff either on the dock (if big enough) or just beyond it on terra firma. HK is responsible for taking everything back to Mum at the end of the day

 

Once everything is set up, everyone is ready, and clearance has been received from the local authorities, tenders ops will commence

Edited June 25, 2016 by Copper10-8

[RMLincoln]

John, that was a great overview! I followed every step and person.

 

I assume that all those on shore get appropriate breaks for lunch and nature calls, etc. The on-shore duty can be very hot in some parts of the world and I have been concerned for their well-being, but I trust that you are all cared for.

 

We are booked on the Tales of the South Pacific going out of San Diego 30 Sept and it has 12 tender ports scheduled! I'm expecting that we may not make all of them due to weather or other conditions but this overview gives me great insight on what will be happening. Many thanks! m--

[chengkp75]

In my experience 'communicator' is a bit more than just primary language English. I see more of this on Crystal because with just 2 ships I'm more likely to recognize them, but I'm sure it's a more general thing. With their training and physical nature they know how to make their voices carry in a clear tone. When we call out the cabin number the lifeboat commander will often call out a number and get no response. After a couple of tries the singer/dancer will repeat the number in a loud clear tone and 9 times out of 10 there will be a prompt response.

 

I was also at a Celebrity Q&A with the show cast. The question came up and they said "we are certified to drive the lifeboats". Probably 3rd or 4th in line to do so but they do know how.

 

Roy

 

Typically, those handling the passenger muster are not the boat crew. The boat crew will generally not be at the passenger drill, but doing their normal duties. In an emergency, or crew drill, they will report to the boat deck and assist the deck hands in lowering and preparing the boats for boarding. They will then get in the boats and guide passengers as they board. Those handling the muster will guide passengers on the deck, but will generally not board the boat. They will abandon if/when the remainder of the crew do so. I would be very surprised if the show cast were "certified" lifeboatmen, and even if they were boat crew trained onboard. Not questioning what you were told, just doubt a lot of what crew tell passengers.

Edited June 25, 2016 by chengkp75

[Copper10-8]

T............... I would be very surprised if the show cast were "certified" lifeboatmen, and even if they were boat crew trained onboard. Not questioning what you were told, just doubt a lot of what crew tell passengers.

 

They're not

[SeaDog-46]

Hi Stephen - Yes it was Blue Star Line - so no tramp company. Warsash is still operating with only a few others in UK. My pre sea at KE VII in London. We did a lot of boatwork in West India Dock.

In those days - sixties - everybody signed on 2 year articles.

We got shanghaied when in New Zealand & instead of loading in NZ & returning to UK we went over to Australia to load for USA. The reason - Ch.Eng. will love this - the new vessel scheduled to do this run, had an accident on trials - when the engine bridge controls failed to go astern & the new ship T-boned the dockside.

Blue Star had a few ships with Chinese crew that shipped out of Singapore from China. These crew stayed on for the full 2 years & then the ship went back to Singapore to change crew - some resigned on for another 2 years.

John

[OlsSalt]

Growing up we had something called "Shanghai breakfasts" where friends would show up early in the morning and haul you off in your bed clothes to have breakfast at another friends house. We never quite knew how it got this name -- but now I think you just explained it. :rolleyes:

[SeaDog-46]

Originally the practice of filling crew positions on merchant ships by picking up drunk sailors & sailing the vessel to Shanghai.

A bit different to Press-ganging where naval personnel picked up sailors & forced them to work on naval ships.

What about the American word Limey for an English sailor?

John

[Topsham]

Hi Stephen - Yes it was Blue Star Line - so no tramp company. Warsash is still operating with only a few others in UK. My pre sea at KE VII in London. We did a lot of boatwork in West India Dock.

In those days - sixties - everybody signed on 2 year articles.

We got shanghaied when in New Zealand & instead of loading in NZ & returning to UK we went over to Australia to load for USA. The reason - Ch.Eng. will love this - the new vessel scheduled to do this run, had an accident on trials - when the engine bridge controls failed to go astern & the new ship T-boned the dockside.

Blue Star had a few ships with Chinese crew that shipped out of Singapore from China. These crew stayed on for the full 2 years & then the ship went back to Singapore to change crew - some resigned on for another 2 years.

John

 

 

Hi John,

 

I thought you might be Blue Star. Well, other than NZSCo or Shaw Savill!

 

I was with J&J Denholm. Likewise 2 year agreement but early 70s we were on eight then down to six months.. unless you were wanted to do the twelve month for tax. My cadetship was in longer because I did two doubles because one ship was sold and I shifted to another and the second double was I wanted to get sea time for Second Mates.

 

I went into reefers after first five years and then mostly stayed with them. I tried one of the big liners companies so had a shot at Shaw Savill. Great company and great runs. Very quickly I saw that the writing on the wall with Savill's. Old traditional ships and no AC! :eek: Went back to J&J and their two reefers, Loch Lomond and Loch Maree. Mate at just 25. Could not have done that with Blue Star.

 

Sailed with Chinese and Indian crews but in the reefers were all Glasgow crew. People you to say, "What crew on board?" We used to say, 'White officers and Scottish engineers!"

 

Stephen

[Topsham]

What about the American word Limey for an English sailor?

John

 

 

 

'Limey'.

 

Based on the fact that British sailors were the first to use citrus fruit, commonly lime-juice being the most readily available from colonies in the West Indies, as an anti-scorbutic years before it was adopted by other sea-going nations.

Captain Cook used it for his crews on his various circumnavigations before 1779, yet American sailors still succumbed to scurvy during the War of 1812

[Topsham]

John,

 

Readers may have seen that you stated that you sailed with Blue Star Line.

 

Blue Star Line was a very fine shipping company trading worldwide, mostly from South America to the UK and also Australia, New Zealand and USA. Famous as 'meat boats' ... beef from Argentina, chilled and frozen. Blue Star also carried passengers. Small numbers and some ships carried more and one well known cruise ship in the 1930s.

 

Here two of their ships that I painted a few years ago, the Hobart Star and the Andalucía Star. Classic, fine ships.

 

Stephen

[OlsSalt]

'Limey'.

 

Based on the fact that British sailors were the first to use citrus fruit, commonly lime-juice being the most readily available from colonies in the West Indies, as an anti-scorbutic years before it was adopted by other sea-going nations.

Captain Cook used it for his crews on his various circumnavigations before 1779, yet American sailors still succumbed to scurvy during the War of 1812

 

Who was the captain of yore who demanded his crew eat sauerkraut every day, before the connection of Vit C and scurvy was finally made? --Captain Bligh?

[chengkp75]

Who was the captain of yore who demanded his crew eat sauerkraut every day, before the connection of Vit C and scurvy was finally made? --Captain Bligh?

 

That was actually Captain Cook, following on research done by others, who fed his crew onions, citrus, and sauerkraut. He also used "Portable Soup", which was meat boiled for days until only a "glue" remained, which was mixed with pea soup or oatmeal, and found to have an advantageous result against scurvy. This Portable Soup was called this, because even though it was meat based, it could be carried for long voyages without spoiling, and a sample examined 166 years after Cook's voyages showed no change in substance. Yuck. Fresh meat was also a preventative, and Cook resorted to threats of corporal punishment for men who refused to eat what was required, even fresh meat (sailors then preferred salt beef).

 

Bligh followed Cook's example in his voyages.

[OlsSalt]

That was actually Captain Cook, following on research done by others, who fed his crew onions, citrus, and sauerkraut. He also used "Portable Soup", which was meat boiled for days until only a "glue" remained, which was mixed with pea soup or oatmeal, and found to have an advantageous result against scurvy. This Portable Soup was called this, because even though it was meat based, it could be carried for long voyages without spoiling, and a sample examined 166 years after Cook's voyages showed no change in substance. Yuck. Fresh meat was also a preventative, and Cook resorted to threats of corporal punishment for men who refused to eat what was required, even fresh meat (sailors then preferred salt beef).

 

Bligh followed Cook's example in his voyages.

 

But ..but ..what about the guys on Capt Cook's ship who wanted a custom made sandwich .....(Duck -see another thread with almost 6000 hits).

 

Thanks for the correction. I guess it was breadfruit that made Capt Bligh's ship float. (Or not)

[chengkp75]

But ..but ..what about the guys on Capt Cook's ship who wanted a custom made sandwich .....(Duck -see another thread with almost 6000 hits).

 

Thanks for the correction. I guess it was breadfruit that made Capt Bligh's ship float. (Or not)

 

I've been tempted to include the sandwich issue in a couple of HAL threads, as well. Well played, since Cook discovered the Sandwich Islands (Hawaii). :D

 

Breadfruit wasn't for the crew, it was being taken from the South Pacific as a potential food for slaves in the Caribbean. Didn't work any better than Bligh's voyage, since the slaves refused to eat it.

 

If you study Bligh's small boat voyage after the mutiny, it is one of the greatest voyages of all time.

[Topsham]

More of the similar topic.

 

Back in the 19th & 20th centuries the Royal Navy had a tradition of using 'Fannys' for carrying 'grog'.... rum with water from the 'issue' to each of the crew messes. Read this to find out what the "fanny" looked out, what they were made for and how then came up with this name.

 

 

The true story of Sweet Fanny Adams

 

 

Few people who use the expression 'Sweet Fanny Adams' know of its origin. However there was a time when it would have been recognised instantly.

 

When the name Fanny Adams made sensational headlines, creating a wave of horror, revulsion and pity. Little Fanny Adams was brutally murdered on Saturday 24 August 1867. Nothing much ever happened to disturb the rural Hampshire community of Alton: certainly none of the inhabitants could recall a local murder during their lifetime. So Fanny's mother, Harriet Adams, probably thought it quite safe for three small children to wander off alone towards Flood Meadow, just 400 yards from their home in Tan House Lane.

 

The crime

 

Fanny and her friend, Minnie Warner, both eight years old, set off up the lane with Fanny's seven-year-old sister Lizzie and they were approached by a man dressed in black frock coat, light waistcoat and trousers. Despite his respectable appearance he had obviously been drinking, and the proposition he put to the children remains chillingly familiar to today's police officers. He offered Minnie three halfpence to go off and spend with Lizzie, while Fanny could have a halfpenny if she alone would accompany him up The Hollow, an old road leading to the nearby village of Shalden. Fanny took her halfpenny but refused to go with him, whereupon he picked her up and carried her into a nearby hopefield, out of sight of the other children. It was then almost 1.30pm.

 

At about five o'clock, having played together since Fanny's abduction, Minnie Warner and Lizzie Adams made their way home. Seeing them return, a neighbour, Mrs Gardiner, asked where Fanny was, then rushed to tell Mrs Adams when the children had explained what had happened. The anxious women hurried up the lane, where they met the same man coming from the direction of The Hollow.

 

Mrs Gardiner accosted him: "What have you done with the child?" "Nothing", he replied equably, maintaining this composure as he answered Mrs Gardiner's other questions. "Yes, he had given them money, but only to buy sweets which I often do to children", and Fanny, unharmed, had left him to rejoin the others. His air of respectability impressed the women and when he told them that he was a clerk of a local solicitor William Clement, they allowed him to leave.

 

However, at seven o'clock, with the child still missing, worried neighbours formed a search party. They found poor Fanny's dreadfully mutilated remains in the hopfield. It was a sickening scene of carnage. The child's severed head lay on two poles, deeply slashed from mouth to ear and across the left temple. Her right ear had been cut off. Most horribly, both eyes were missing. Nearby lay a leg and a thigh. A wider search revealed her dismembered torso: the entire contents of chest and pelvis had been torn out and scattered, with some internal organs even further slashed or mutilated. So savage was the butchery that other parts of her body were recovered only after extensive searches over several days. Her eyes were found in the River Wey.

 

On hearing of her daughters death, the distraught Mrs Adams ran to tell her husband (who was playing cricket on the Butts, South of the Town) then collapsed from grief and exhaustion. George Adams reacted to the news by returning home for his shotgun, and setting out for the hopfields in search of the murderer. Fortunately for both, neighbours disarmed him.

 

The perpetrator

 

Later that evening, Supt William Cheyney arrested the obvious suspect at his workplace, the solicitor's office in Alton High Street. "I know nothing about it," said 29-year-old Frederick Baker in the first of many protestations of innocence, before Cheyney escorted him through an angry crowd to Alton Police Station.

 

The wristbands of Baker's shirt and his trousers were spotted with blood. His boots, socks and trouser bottoms were wet. "That won't hang me, will it?" he said nonchalantly, explaining that it was his habit to step into the water when out walking. But he could not explain how his clothing came to be bloodstained. More evidence - two small knives, one of them stained with blood - came to light when he was searched. The suspect was locked away while Supt Cheyney checked on his movements that afternoon. Witnesses confirmed that he had left the solicitors office shortly after 1pm, returning at 3.25pm, he again went out until 5.30pm. Mrs Gardiner and Mrs Adams had seen him coming from the direction of the hopfield some time after 5pm: if, as seems likely, he had murdered Fanny Adams during his first absence, had he returned to commit further depredations on his victim's body?

 

Baker's fellow Clerk, Maurice Biddle, spoke of seeing him in the office at about six that evening, when he had described his meeting with Mrs Adams and Mrs Gardiner. Baker had seemed disturbed, "it will be very awkward for me if the child is murdered", he told Biddle. Later they went over to the Swan for a drink where the morose Baker said he might leave town on the following Monday. To his colleague's observation that perhaps he would have difficulty in finding a new job, Baker made the significant reply, "I could go as a butcher".

 

On the following Monday, whilst searching Baker's office desk, Cheyney found his diary. It contained a damning entry which the suspect admitted writing shortly before his arrest. "24th August, Saturday - killed a young girl. It was fine and hot". At his trial Baker maintained that this entry, written when he was drunk, simply meant that he was aware a girl had been murdered.

 

The Coroner

 

Meanwhile, a local painter William Walker had found a large stone in the hopfield, with blood, long hair and a small piece of flesh adhering to it.

 

 

 

This, pronounced Dr Louis Leslie, the Alton divisional police surgeon, was probably the murder weapon; his post-mortem finding was that death had been caused by a crushing blow to Fanny's head.

 

Tuesday evening saw the inquest before Deputy County Coroner Robert Harfield at the Duke's Head Inn. After viewing the gruesome remains, hearing the evidence and the handcuffed prisoners reply when the coroner asked if he wished to say anything ("No Sir - only that I am innocent"), the jury returned a verdict "wilful murder against Frederick Baker for killing and slaying Fanny Adams". He was remanded to Winchester Prison to await the formal committal hearing.

 

This was held at Alton Town Hall on Thursday 29 August before local magistrates. Still protesting his innocence, the prisoner was committed for trial at the next County Assizes. A large crowd awaited his removal from the Town Hall and the Police were only able to protect him from the violence of the mob with great difficulty. Baker's trial opened at Winchester Assizes on 5 December.

 

Little Minnie Warner was carried into court to testify; the defence strongly challenged her identification of Baker and also claimed (perhaps correctly) that it was impossible for his small knives to have dismembered the unfortunate Fanny so thoroughly. But the defence case centred on Baker's mental state, a sad tale of hereditary insanity.

 

His father had "shown an inclination to assault even to kill, his children"; a cousin had been in asylums four times; brain fever had caused his sister's death; and he had attempted suicide after an abortive love affair.

 

Apparently unimpressed, the jury rejected Mr Justice Mellor's judicial advice that they might consider the prisoner irresponsible for his actions through insanity, possibly the inevitable verdict today.

 

After retiring for only 15 minutes the jury returned a guilty verdict, and Frederick Baker was hanged before a crowd of 5000, a large proportion of whom consisted of women, in front of Winchester's County Prison at 8am on Christmas Eve, 1867.

 

Following the execution it became known that Baker had written to the parents of the murdered child to express deep sorrow over the crime that he had committed "in an unguarded hour and not with malice aforethought". He earnestly sought their forgiveness adding that he was "enraged at her crying, but it was done without any pain or struggle". The prisoner denied most emphatically that he had violated the child, or had attempted to do so.

 

 

 

Poor Fanny's headstone which was erected by Public subscription and renovated a few years ago, is pictured here with her younger sister and Minnie Warner, and still stands in the town cemetery on the Old Oldham Road. It might have been our only reminder of the tragic affair had it not been for the macabre humour of British Sailors.

 

Served with tins of mutton as the latest shipboard convenience food in 1869, they gloomily declared that their butchered contents must surely be 'Sweet Fanny Adams'. Gradually accepted throughout the armed services as a euphemism for 'sweet nothing' it passed into common usage.

 

As an aside, the large tins in which the meat was packed for the royal navy, were often used as mess tins and it appears that even today mess tins are colloquially known as 'fannys'.

[Copper10-8]

.....................

If you study Bligh's small boat voyage after the mutiny, it is one of the greatest voyages of all time.

 

In the last 'Mutiny on the Bounty' movie, Bligh, his crew and whale boat wound up in a place where the locals spoke Dutch. I figured he must have made it to present Indonesia or Papua New Guinea, Dutch colonies in those days

[chengkp75]

In the last 'Mutiny on the Bounty' movie, Bligh, his crew and whale boat wound up in a place where the locals spoke Dutch. I figured he must have made it to present Indonesia or Papua New Guinea, Dutch colonies in those days

 

Way past Papua New Guinea, he actually reached Timor in present day Indonesia. A voyage of over 3500 miles, 44 days, in a 23' boat with 20 men onboard.

[Topsham]

In the last 'Mutiny on the Bounty' movie, Bligh, his crew and whale boat wound up in a place where the locals spoke Dutch. I figured he must have made it to present Indonesia or Papua New Guinea, Dutch colonies in those days

 

 

Christopher Columbus circumcised the world with a forty foot cutter!