Maritime Time: ask some insiders about the insides of a ship

[Topsham]

How long the ship will be in Lauderdale?

 

955 feet long.... same as it always is!

 

Sorry. :D

[SJSULIBRARIAN]

How long the ship will be in Lauderdale?

 

955 feet long.... same as it always is!

 

Sorry. :D

 

Love this response and thanks to all for this very interesting thread.

[Copper10-8]

How long the ship will be in Lauderdale?

 

955 feet long.... same as it always is!

 

Sorry. :D

Rimshot for Captain Card ;)

[Topsham]

OK, New York Harbor, North River, from Verrazano Narrows up at far as Pier 92, what is the brightest light you can find?

[Globaliser]

OK, New York Harbor, North River, from Verrazano Narrows up at far as Pier 92, what is the brightest light you can find?

The sun? ;)

[gpb11]

Hey, can somebody find me about 100 feet of shore line? :cool:

[Copper10-8]

Hey, can somebody find me about 100 feet of shore line? :cool:

 

How 'bout a can of jet blast first?

[OlsSalt]

You mean an ozzie-pod is not really the name of an Australian-made car?

[rafinmd]

A recent thread brings to mind a couple of questions. I know that cruise ships usually (always?/required) have a Staff Captain who is fully qualified to take over as master if needed.

 

In one recent case a Captain encountered some medical problems and had to leave his ship. I think it was about 2 years before the decision was made to find a permanent replacement.

 

The first replacement was a former Master on the same ship who came out of retirement to fill in for a few weeks. Following that, until a new master was announced, the Staff Captain was temporarily given command of the ship (for months, not days).

 

1. What are the continuing requirements for a Master? I assume there is some licensing period when certain requirements must be fulfilled to retain the license, and it likely varies by country. What is a typical licensing period, and do retired Captains tend to retain their credentials or truly give up the maritime life?

 

2. Are there typically more people beyond the Master and Staff Captain who are fully qualified to take command? If a Staff Captain must take over are there typically First Officers or others who would be qualified to become his/her backup or is that a void that needs to be filled.

 

Anything else here I don't realize I don't know and should here?

 

Thanks

 

Roy

[Copper10-8]

OK, New York Harbor, North River, from Verrazano Narrows up at far as Pier 92, what is the brightest light you can find?

 

Lighthouse?

[chengkp75]

A recent thread brings to mind a couple of questions. I know that cruise ships usually (always?/required) have a Staff Captain who is fully qualified to take over as master if needed.

 

In one recent case a Captain encountered some medical problems and had to leave his ship. I think it was about 2 years before the decision was made to find a permanent replacement.

 

The first replacement was a former Master on the same ship who came out of retirement to fill in for a few weeks. Following that, until a new master was announced, the Staff Captain was temporarily given command of the ship (for months, not days).

 

1. What are the continuing requirements for a Master? I assume there is some licensing period when certain requirements must be fulfilled to retain the license, and it likely varies by country. What is a typical licensing period, and do retired Captains tend to retain their credentials or truly give up the maritime life?

 

US licenses are for 5 years. When I had a Bahamian license, it was tied to my US license, so I'm not sure if there is a different period of validity for different countries. Generally, renewal of license does not require any examinations, but certain IMO/STCW training standards must be renewed periodically (some 5 year, some 10 year). Deck officers in the US have to take their "blinking light" (morse code) and radar observer qualifications every renewal. In the US, you can retain your license as long as you are willing to pay to renew it. After a certain amount of time, or if you haven't taken a required STCW certification, your license is marked "for continuity only", meaning you need to get the requirements met before you can actually sail on the license.

 

2. Are there typically more people beyond the Master and Staff Captain who are fully qualified to take command? If a Staff Captain must take over are there typically First Officers or others who would be qualified to become his/her backup or is that a void that needs to be filled.

 

Typically, on a cruise ship, no. There is generally no legal requirement (i.e. his position is not on the required manning list) for a Staff Captain. The ship can sail without one. Similarly, the (Staff, Junior, of Assistant, choose one) Chief Engineer is a licensed Chief Engineer, but it is not a required position, so if he took over for a Chief, they would not need to fill the position. However, there is so much work onboard for the Staff Captain and Chief that the Chief Officer and First Engineer would have to assume some duties, and the position would be filled as soon as possible.

 

Anything else here I don't realize I don't know and should here?

 

Thanks

 

Roy

 

Don't know, and can't say about the last. :D

[Topsham]

 

2. Are there typically more people beyond the Master and Staff Captain who are fully qualified to take command? If a Staff Captain must take over are there typically First Officers or others who would be qualified to become his/her backup or is that a void that needs to be filled.

 

 

 

Roy

 

Things have changed over the year.

 

For example: In the Cunard ships, QUEEN ELIZABETH, QUEEN MARY etc usually included the following:

 

Captain

Staff Captain

Chief Officer

First Officers

Jr First Officer

Second Officer

Jr Second Officer

3rd Officer

4th Officer

Cadets.

 

 

Even the smaller passenger ships carried a similar list of Deck Officers.

 

Here is the rub.... EVERY DECK OFFICER HELD a certificate "MASTER (Foreign Going)." Even the 4th Officer was qualified to command the ship.

 

The cargo fleet in Cunard would have normal officers with certificate as:

 

Captain Master FG

Chief Officer Master FG

Second Officer Mate FG

Third Officer Second Officer FG

Fourth Officer Second Officer FG

 

 

 

Officers started out as Cadets then held a Second Officer Certificate and sailed as Fourth Officer and Third Officers. When they got a Mate FG then could move up to Second Officer. Then the officer had Master's FG he would then start moving up the ranks starting again as 4th Officer in the passenger ships. Eventually the officer would move between the passenger ships and the cargo fleet. Of course some officers stayed in the cargo ship and others moved up into the passenger ships.

 

One other 'qualification'. There used to be a certificate called "EXTRA MASTER". This was really if you wanted to get your 'PhD'. It was or Surveyors, Examiners etc. Some officers used to take the work and get the certificate. A lot of the officers in Cunard ships were Extra Masters.

 

 

In the Cunard ships the qualification for engineers was quite similar. Most of the engineers held 'Chief Engineer - Steam'.

 

These days it would be impossible to man cruise ships with Master's. It would cost a fortune to pay the officers at the required level.

[chengkp75]

Yeah, when I started out, most of the engineers had Chief's licenses, but you were paid at the position you held, not your license. With the reduction in young people entering the maritime field, that has changed, and you are lucky to find two Chiefs or two Captains on a ship, at least in the US (which has devolved into a "third rate" maritime nation).

[OlsSalt]

...... in the US (which has devolved into a "third rate" maritime nation).

 

Nothing wrong with your assessment; just recognizing the lost opportunity as a land mass with two major oceans and global shopping lanes lapping on its mighty sovereign shores.

[chengkp75]

Nothing wrong with your assessment; just recognizing the lost opportunity as a land mass with two major oceans and global shopping lanes lapping on its mighty sovereign shores.

 

Unfortunately, the Merchant Marine Act of 1936, which helped prepare the US for the rigors of WWII, and propelled us to be the premier maritime nation at the end of the war, also has driven us to our parlous state today. The operating and construction subsidies given by the US government for US flag ships caused shipowners and shipyards to stop innovating. So, as our standard of living increased, and the call for safer and cleaner ships increased, the shipowners just passed the added cost on to the taxpayer. Then, when the house fell in when Reagan removed the subsidies, our ships and crews could no longer compete with foreign shipping. Had we been driven by higher costs to innovate in ship building, operation, and crewing, we could have kept a lot more jobs.

[USN59-79]

I have very much enjoyed this thread and appreciate the expert's inputs. Having spent a career in the U.S. Navy, it is interesting to see the parallels in ranks and duties in the civilian world. In the Navy, only a line officer would command a ship, regardless of rank. For example, a Supply Officer or Engineering Officer would never be the Commanding Officer. I was a Chief Warrant Officer on a repair ship with the job of Electronics Repair Officer. I stood watches as Junior Officer of the deck in port, then qualified as OOD in Port. Then stood watches as JOOD underway and eventually qualified as Officer of the Deck for independent steaming. To qualify for that, I had to learn ship handling, the rules of the road, navigation, use of radar, etc. Our ship had twin screws, so to teach us junior officers ship handling we got to spend time driving a tug boat with twin screws. Kind of fun to see what happens when you give an order like "Port screw ahead one third; starboard screw back two thirds, right full rudder" and good to know what to do if a man falls overboard while you are underway.

[rkacruiser]

I'm enjoying this thread as well!

 

Another line of questions:

 

How is a newbuild's ship's Master, Chief Engineer, and Hotel Director selected?

 

In the case of the Koningsdam, Captain de Vries and Hotel Director Kuppens were the designated ones. I think I am correct that the 2013 Eurodam's Viking Passage Chief Engineer said that he would be going to the newbuild.

 

The selection cannot be made on senority for the Master, I don't think, because I believe there are several other Masters who have more Senority than Captain de Vries. (As far as I know.) For HD, it may be experience, I am thinking. Mr. Kuppens has brought out several of the new HAL ships.

 

Am I correct that Captain Edward G. van Zaane is the only HAL Master that has brought out two of the current HAL ships: the Amsterdam and the Nieuw Amsterdam?

Edited June 29, 2016 by rkacruiser

[Topsham]

Well, it depends on several factors.

 

Senior v. Junior

 

Seniors that are happy to bring out new ship

 

v. Seniors that are smart enough to keep away from a newbuild. !!!!!!!

[Copper10-8]

I'm enjoying this thread as well!

 

Another line of questions:

 

How is a newbuild's ship's Master, Chief Engineer, and Hotel Director selected?

 

In the case of the Koningsdam, Captain de Vries and Hotel Director Kuppens were the designated ones. I think I am correct that the 2013 Eurodam's Viking Passage Chief Engineer said that he would be going to the newbuild.

 

The selection cannot be made on senority for the Master, I don't think, because I believe there are several other Masters who have more Senority than Captain de Vries. (As far as I know.) For HD, it may be experience, I am thinking. Mr. Kuppens has brought out several of the new HAL ships.

 

Am I correct that Captain Edward G. van Zaane is the only HAL Master that has brought out two of the current HAL ships: the Amsterdam and the Nieuw Amsterdam?

 

HD Stan Kuppens has now brought out the last four new builds; Noordam, Eurodam, Nieuw Amsterdam and Koningsdam so it's safe to say, experience counts when it comes to selecting a hotel director (Hotel is by far the largest department on board) for a new build.

 

You are correct; there are a number of more experienced senior captains than Capt. de Vries, who attained his rank in 2011. See Captain Stephen Card's response; among those more experienced captains, some don't want a new build. Capt. van Zaane did bring out both Amsterdam in 2000 and Nieuw Amsterdam ten years later in 2010 which makes him the only one among the current group of captains who has done it more than once.

 

Among the retired captains, there is Captain Hans "Eul" Eulderink who brought out Noordam III, Statendam IV and Veendam IV (the first is an "N" class ship and the latter two both "S" class ships). Then there is retired Captain Jack van Coevorden who brought out Ryndam III ("S" class), Zaandam ("R" class) and the first Vista-class, Zuiderdam. Retired Captain Johannes "Hans" van Biljouw brought out Volendam III ("R" class) and Oosterdam, the 2nd Vista.

 

Westerdam was brought out by retired Captain Dirk van den Berg, Noordam by Captain John Scott and Eurodam by Captain Jeroen van Donselaar

 

 

 

Edited June 29, 2016 by Copper10-8

[OlsSalt]

We can assume technology and design vastly changes when the newer ships are built for the navigation and engineering portions of the ship, but do things change much for the cabin stewards and dining staff on the newer ships?

 

Is making beds and cleaning cabins pretty much the same whether it is the Maassdam or the Konigsdam?

[wandrr]

RT call Mayday - for distress originated in 1923 by a radio operator at Croydon airport south of London UK. From French M'aider - help me.

 

John

 

There is also a radio call PAN-PAN-PAN which communicates an urgency, though not an emergency. Read more about it at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pan-pan . It too comes from the French language. In French, a panne is a breakdown, such as a mechanical failure.

 

By the way, the correct etymology of MAYDAY is m'aidez.

[Topsham]

The third call is:

 

SECURITE SECURITE SCURITE

 

 

 

Securite: A radio call that usually issues navigational warnings, meteorological warnings,and any other warning needing to be issued that may concern the safety of life at sea, yet may not be particularly life-threatening.

[chengkp75]

We can assume technology and design vastly changes when the newer ships are built for the navigation and engineering portions of the ship, but do things change much for the cabin stewards and dining staff on the newer ships?

 

Is making beds and cleaning cabins pretty much the same whether it is the Maassdam or the Konigsdam?

 

I would say that the front line stewards and wait staff jobs haven't changed that much, but there may be improvements in back of house, like how laundry and linens are handled, or how the galley prepares the meals or plates them up for the big "dinner rush".

 

When I was Staff Chief (responsible for maintenance outside the engine room), I used to joke that after 30 years of working on huge diesels, I end up working on machines that fold towels, roll dough into little balls for dinner rolls, slice a whole loaf of bread, or cut a 5 lb block of butter into pats. :p

[OlsSalt]

...... I end up working on machines that fold towels, roll dough into little balls for dinner rolls, slice a whole loaf of bread, or cut a 5 lb block of butter into pats. :p

 

Really? Are their machines onboard that do exactly that? Naive me, I thought the bread rolls at least were rolled by hand. What else in automated in the food service area.

 

Why am I so naive- my first job in college was to put those pats of butter on individual paper squares, by hand. Trays and trays of them for the dorm cafeteria. Before my evening math class.

[chengkp75]

Really? Are their machines onboard that do exactly that? Naive me, I thought the bread rolls at least were rolled by hand. What else in automated in the food service area.

 

Why am I so naive- my first job in college was to put those pats of butter on individual paper squares, by hand. Trays and trays of them for the dorm cafeteria. Before my evening math class.

 

Yep, they put a ball of dough on the machine and pull a handle down, and it cuts the dough into 19 (what an odd number) of little balls, then the cutter retracts, and a pressure plate comes down and the upper and lower plates start oscillating in opposite directions and this rolls out perfect little dough balls. There is also a machine that rolls out french baguettes. And the tart press (not that kind of tart), whose sole function is to press dough into the tart shells to get the perfect fluting. And that's just the bakery.

 

In the vegetable prep room, they have slicer/dicers that can take a 35 gallon garbage can full of potatoes and turn them into crinkle fries as fast as you can dump the trash can into the hopper. Quick adjustment, and it makes wavy carrot slices, or julienne strips. About 35 different blades. I always told the Staff Captain that if a crew member was missing to look in the veg prep room first, because it reminded me of the wood chipper in "Fargo".

 

In the galley, you have ovens that take a rack that holds 10 full size baking sheets with roasts or poultry (maybe 150-200 lbs of meat), and you just roll the rack in and close the door. Soup is made in steam kettles that hold about 35 gallons, and are a kettle within a kettle, and steam from the engine room is piped into the space between to heat it. Vegetables are cooked in "tilting pans", which are similar to the steam kettles, but are rectangular and shallow, about 3' x 4', with a sealed pressure cooker lid. They are called tilting pans because a crank handle will tilt the pan so that the contents can be poured or scraped into serving pans.