Art Auctions

[wishfulone]

It doesn't really matter if you 'like' the art or not, or whether you believe it's 'real' art. The art auctions are just so much fun! Sometimes there's champagne, there's heaps of excited people bidding, the auctioneer is usually an interesting character and you learn a little bit about artists and art appreciation. Just go along and enjoy yourself. You don't have to buy anything. But if you're easily sucked in maybe you should stay away in case you part with a lot more money that you bargained on :D

[Shoalwater]

Some pretty broad misperceptions here.

 

We have bought art while on Princess Cruises but all pre-Park West.

 

None of the art has depreciated in value when looking at any legitimate gallery or on-line dealer. In some cases, like art by Martiros, the price has increased significantly. However, we do recommend one buy art because you like it, and not for investment purposes.

 

Certainly, there are many pictures where one can buy a poster and come out cheaper, like one person inferred below. But, as another said, most of the time one cannot buy the frame on land for the price of the framed artwork. For instance we saw this for a Behrens picture at JC Penney's - the reproduction in the store cost more than a hand embellished and signed lithograph from a Princess art auction.

 

Even some of the "free" art we won and paid shipping for was found to be in the $230 price range from an online source for the same artist. Not a bad deal - and in one case that was great documentation of value for a donation to a church auction.

 

So, making no comment about the current offerings or vendor (other than that we do not like the atmosphere and pre-registration requirement for the current auctions), it is always a "buyer beware", whether on ship or elsewhere. With internet access it is easy to check for current value from a good source (not Ebay) to see if the price is reasonable.

 

Our experience as well, pre-Park West. We enjoyed the art show when Princess ran it, but now don't waste our time. What galls me is how PW will put talk up an artist with pricing comments about an original, and then slot in a lithograph for sale, not clearly say its one, and then start the "bidding". Caveat emptor. Most of the fine art pieces we purchased previously when it was a Princess concession appraised very well and were less than a gallery price. Some of the true originals that PW now have, especially Peter Max are sold at 1.4-1.7x what we paid only a few years ago. I doubt they have appreciated that much so quickly.

[piper28]

Yeah, the art auctions done by Park West are something of a joke, with prices that don't make sense, and auctioneers that I've definitely seen playing fast and loose with what they were describing. The mix of artwork has changed significantly too, and quite frankly what PW is bringing isn't stuff that tends to appeal to me. Back in the PFA days, I always felt that the auctioneers did a pretty good job of describing exactly what you were buying. And especially in december when they'd tend to run free shipping specials, a couple of pieces I definitely got for significantly less than I'd have been able to on land. But I also did a lot of research about pieces I was looking at before buying anything.

 

Back in the PFA days, they did run auctions on the small ships. They were held up in the lounge forward on deck 10. I think they stopped even before things went over to PW, and I've never seen them on the small ships since PW.

[Roberto256]

What?

 

You say the picture below is not of "real" art?

 

Isn't the first one "Moe's" from the simpsons?

[PrincessLuver]

Has any of our cruise peers experienced an art auction and/or gallery on the Pacific Princess? Also would appreciate any comments about authenticity and value, Cheers.

 

If it sounds too good to be true it probably is.....Princess is all about the upscale in whatever they do and that is the bottom line....no way will people get what they paid for the art they bought on any cruise ship....;);)

[keithm]

LOL,cheers,i suppose art is subjective,but not at that price.;)

It's like that "artist" known as the painter of "light" I used to refer to him as the painter of "Garbage"! His originals were ok, but he sold millions of giclee's (a laminated print)and made millions! He'd have some Schlock artist put a few brush strokes on them & charge an outrageous sum for them.

[Redwing55]

Some pretty broad misperceptions here.

 

We have bought art while on Princess Cruises but all pre-Park West.

 

None of the art has depreciated in value when looking at any legitimate gallery or on-line dealer. In some cases, like art by Martiros, the price has increased significantly. However, we do recommend one buy art because you like it, and not for investment purposes.

 

Certainly, there are many pictures where one can buy a poster and come out cheaper, like one person inferred below. But, as another said, most of the time one cannot buy the frame on land for the price of the framed artwork. For instance we saw this for a Behrens picture at JC Penney's - the reproduction in the store cost more than a hand embellished and signed lithograph from a Princess art auction.

 

Even some of the "free" art we won and paid shipping for was found to be in the $230 price range from an online source for the same artist. Not a bad deal - and in one case that was great documentation of value for a donation to a church auction.

 

So, making no comment about the current offerings or vendor (other than that we do not like the atmosphere and pre-registration requirement for the current auctions), it is always a "buyer beware", whether on ship or elsewhere. With internet access it is easy to check for current value from a good source (not Ebay) to see if the price is reasonable.

 

I think you nailed it. This is especially true if you like a piece and frankly, the cost of framing it back home was so much higher than what Princess charged, that it made for quite a bargain. I'm still hoping PW changes its techniques to make the process more enjoyable, and possibly brings back some of the artists that Princess used to have (Wyland for example.) Anyway, I'll keep hoping since Princess does read these things as well as comments folks submit on the cruises.

[aarepsl]

The "art" at the art auctions isn't real art. Almost all of the pictures are lithographs. If you want to own a picture that is owned by several hundred or thousand of other cruisers...buy some. Just be aware there is virtually no resale value (regardless what the auctioneer says) and you'll pay a lot more than you would for a similar picture at JC Penney or Walmart.

 

Hi - This is not necessarily true. We have a one of a kind piece by Slava Ilyayev and it has appreciated very much since the time we purchased it. No - we did not have Park West appraise the piece but rather another gallery. It's a museum quality piece and because of that you pay quite a bit more. Truth is you get what you pay for and we now have some very unique pieces from Park West and we also have several pieces of large productions runs. Overall we like Park West.

[RDC1]

Those that think that buying art on a cruise ship is a good deal should go ahead and do it often. After all the more money they spend on such art, means more money for the cruise line and allows them to keep fares lower. Sale prices that are 20-40 timea whole cost of reproduced material makes for wonderful margins and profits for Park West and Princess.

 

Bid high and often.

[Redwing55]

Those that think that buying art on a cruise ship is a good deal should go ahead and do it often. After all the more money they spend on such art, means more money for the cruise line and allows them to keep fares lower. Sale prices that are 20-40 timea whole cost of reproduced material makes for wonderful margins and profits for Park West and Princess.

 

Bid high and often.

 

Just curious, how do you know that mark-ups are 20-40 times? Have you priced a piece or more on the cruises? I've done a couple- yes even with PW- and actually saw lower prices on the ship. Maybe I just got lucky? Even then 20x sounds like major hyperbole to me.:confused:

[Colo Cruiser]

Some really enjoy the art auctions.

I say let them do what they want.

Does not bother me. :cool:

[OCruisers]

Some really enjoy the art auctions.

I say let them do what they want.

Does not bother me. :cool:

 

Same here!

The art auctions are of no interest to us so never waste our time attending.

It's doesn't bother us they are offered because some do like them.

[joeyancho]

My 3 year old grandson creates the most impressive refrigerator art you have ever seen. He does it for free. It is not for sale as it is priceless.

[neverbeenhere]

I've got $ 50.

[RDC1]

Just curious, how do you know that mark-ups are 20-40 times? Have you priced a piece or more on the cruises? I've done a couple- yes even with PW- and actually saw lower prices on the ship. Maybe I just got lucky? Even then 20x sounds like major hyperbole to me.:confused:

 

Actually I have cruised with a friend of mine and his wife who owns a gallery on Maui. We sat in on an auction and he said exactly what the wholesale price was (that is the price he could buy copies for) for a number of pictures. Very few pictures have to be sold to pay the overhead because the margins are huge.

 

Now that said when it comes to Lithographs, giclee, numbered special editions, etc. many land galleries do the same thing.

 

Here is an article he sent me after the cruise, he said it described very well the mass market art business.

 

http://www.artbusiness.com/arttarget.html

http://www.artbusiness.com/arttarget.html

 

If you like a picture buy it, but don't expect to get your money back out of it, unless it is truly an original.

Edited August 21, 2016 by RDC1

[Times Prince]

Actually I have cruised with a friend of mine and his wife who owns a gallery on Maui. We sat in on an auction and he said exactly what the wholesale price was (that is the price he could buy copies for) for a number of pictures. Very few pictures have to be sold to pay the overhead because the margins are huge.

 

Now that said when it comes to Lithographs, giclee, numbered special editions, etc. many land galleries do the same thing.

 

Here is an article he sent me after the cruise, he said it described very well the mass market art business.

 

http://www.artbusiness.com/arttarget.html

http://www.artbusiness.com/arttarget.html

 

If you like a picture buy it, but don't expect to get your money back out of it, unless it is truly an original.

Interesting article.

 

However:

 

It deals primarily with "Unsigned, unnumbered, limited edition etchings or lithographs". We've sailed a lot of cruises and attended many art auctions, and have rarely seen anything unsigned or unnumbered. Even the free art, won during auctions, were signed and numbered pieces.

 

In my memory, the only items we've seen that match the "un/un" description have been cartoon cells - and those are limited edition serigraphs with Disney logo, and a certificate of authenticity provided- also sold, framed, at a modest price, not an outrageous markup, perfect for my Granddaughter's bedroom.

 

While I am sure there are shady art galleries out there as described in the article, I'm not sure "the shoe fits" when applying this to the Princess Art auctions, even the latest ones.

[RDC1]

Interesting article.

 

However:

 

It deals primarily with "Unsigned, unnumbered, limited edition etchings or lithographs". We've sailed a lot of cruises and attended many art auctions, and have rarely seen anything unsigned or unnumbered. Even the free art, won during auctions, were signed and numbered pieces.

 

In my memory, the only items we've seen that match the "un/un" description have been cartoon cells - and those are limited edition serigraphs with Disney logo, and a certificate of authenticity provided- also sold, framed, at a modest price, not an outrageous markup, perfect for my Granddaughter's bedroom.

 

While I am sure there are shady art galleries out there as described in the article, I'm not sure "the shoe fits" when applying this to the Princess Art auctions, even the latest ones.

 

The first part also talks about lithographs, numbered limited editions, etc. Bottom line unless it is an original, hand painted, you odds of being able to resell for a profit is rather slim.

[Knickearth]

As someone who has attended a multitude of them (both years ago when Park West ran them - then Princess ran them - and now Park West again) I can share that I purchased some pieces simply because I liked them.

 

Now I attend the auctions to keep my girlfriend company and drink the champagne. What I love about them is that they are held in the afternoon and I can always take a nap during them.

 

I wish I was kidding but my friend can vouch for me. she can't believe I can sleep during them, but most - not all - the auctioneers are that boring.]

[LoveThisCruisingThing]

Plus since park west took over the art auctions it's a waste of time .

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Forums

 

I agree. Used to love when Princess had their own but Park west leave a lot to be desired. The two auctioneers I have seen have been so arrogant and they do false advertising with their sales. The good thing is I have money for different things now.

[USNUZULOOSE]

I like going in to look if nothing else is going on to do. Not going to buy. Everyone has their own opinion of things.

[AZJerry]

I wish I could reproduce here how badly one of the PW "Art Directors" mispronounced "Champs-Élysées". She supposedly had an Art History degree.

 

Another Art Director was SO loud during the auction that I left with a headache, and not from the cheap champagne.

 

We stopped going after two or three PW auctions and we don;t miss them.

[Redwing55]

The first part also talks about lithographs, numbered limited editions, etc. Bottom line unless it is an original, hand painted, you odds of being able to resell for a profit is rather slim.

 

I see your point, but then where can an average Joe get a piece at such a low cost? I can't speak for PW, but when Princess ran the show, the costs weren't all that high and, like I mentioned, came very attractively framed and ready to hang. Mark ups are high on lots of things, but IIRC, someone (you?) mentioned 20-40X markups. For SIGNED prints, I've not seen that.

 

And really, most purchases like this are not for investments, but for memories and just liking the piece. In that case, IMO, it looks like a winning formula. Still, I've not been impressed with PW and hoping for the day when PFA or something analogous to them return.

[sonomaphil]

Jeez if you don't like the art auctions don't go. I don't play bingo but I don't complain about it being on board.

[Aus Traveller]

Jeez if you don't like the art auctions don't go. I don't play bingo but I don't complain about it being on board.

I don't go to either, but I find the art auctions more intrusive than bingo. Bingo is probably twice a day with no public announcements. The art on display takes a lot of space, and on ships I have been on, the auctioneer makes ship-wide public announcements trying to drum up business. :( If anyone wants to go, I am sure they will see the entry in the Princess Patter.

[RDC1]

I see your point, but then where can an average Joe get a piece at such a low cost? I can't speak for PW, but when Princess ran the show, the costs weren't all that high and, like I mentioned, came very attractively framed and ready to hang. Mark ups are high on lots of things, but IIRC, someone (you?) mentioned 20-40X markups. For SIGNED prints, I've not seen that.

 

And really, most purchases like this are not for investments, but for memories and just liking the piece. In that case, IMO, it looks like a winning formula. Still, I've not been impressed with PW and hoping for the day when PFA or something analogous to them return.

 

I have purchased 15 or so pieces of art while on cruises, but not a single piece on a cruise ship. All local stuff in the area visited, all original, all representative of the area visited.

 

The stuff sold on the auctions can be bought lots of places, including in many cases from the artists web site.