Interesting Article From a Former Cruise Insider

[chengkp75]

I had read that it went for crew health insurance. But maybe not??

 

No, per the MLC 2006, the cruise lines are required to provide all health care while onboard the ship.

[suesings]

God bless you, you have the patience of a saint.

 

No Kidding!!! :D:D:D

[suesings]

No, per the MLC 2006, the cruise lines are required to provide all health care while onboard the ship.

 

Thank you! I have read so much nonsense on these boards. It is good to have someone here who actually worked on NCL!

[Annmeat]

Sorry, not done, hit send accidentally... What us the answer for those if us who assumed our money was going to those servicing us. We assumed our wonderful staff was receiving the said amount per day.

 

My husband and I always give a little something extra to our waitstaff who we've always enjoyed and got to know that week. Wait staff who always provided friendly service. The girl at the cafe who always served us a snack with a smile. My porter who ensures I have ice to ice my back. It isn't much but just a little extra. Well, we thought it was extra, as we assumed the 80-100 dollars we paid pp was already going to them a bit. We want our folks to get that. What's the answer? What is the best way to treat the staff well?

 

Sent from my SCH-R970 using Forums mobile app

 

By keeping the DSC in place, by telling the staff that goes above and beyond how much you appreciate their care, by filling out one of those comment cards and by slipping them a little green if you so choose.

[suesings]

By keeping the DSC in place, by telling the staff that goes above and beyond how much you appreciate their care, by filling out one of those comment cards and by slipping them a little green if you so choose.

 

Great advice, I hadn't even thought about the Comment Cards! I will definitely be filling those out to recognize excellent service people this time (as well as being kind, thankful and slipping some green where deserved!)

Edited September 20, 2016 by suesings

[chengkp75]

By keeping the DSC in place, by telling the staff that goes above and beyond how much you appreciate their care, by filling out one of those comment cards and by slipping them a little green if you so choose.

 

Bingo. The comment cards are used for employee evaluations, and monthly they have prizes for the highest number of comment cards.

[Charles4515]

But I will not get into a tipping thread debate, I am just telling my experience working for NCL.

 

Thank you for telling your experience. It jibes with what former crew members who got jobs where I used to work, when they left working on cruise ships told me.

[LrgPizza]

For those trying to keep up, here's a summary from PokerPro: Chengkp might be (or have been) a very high ranking officer (Chief Engineer) on NCL, but I have encountered crew members in my life, so I would know more.

 

Hahahahaha. This thread is great.

[swedish weave]

I question why NCL would remove control of the DSC pool from the hands of the ship's officers. They were supposedly using the adjustment requests as a tool for improving the performance of the various departments on their ships.

 

By taking the control of the DSC money pool, they now do not require a reason for a guest removing the DSC, so the effectiveness is not there anymore. Also, by offering the DSC as a booking bonus, guests cannot remove it, and that eliminates another possibility of the DSC being an effective tool for improving the service.

 

Is there a logical reason for the change ?

Edited September 21, 2016 by swedish weave

[DMH15]

When were these books written? Since the common utilization of the DSC?

 

 

 

I would be very surprised if any former cruise employees claimed that the DSC was equivalent to tips, as even NCL carefully avoids saying that on their own webpage.

 

 

 

Besides, that article is full of other laughably fictitious anecdotes, such as the "NY Seafood Magnate" gambler who tried to make a woman cry because he lost a whopping $300.

 

 

Well, Milton Berle yelled at my friend when she hit her blackjack hand and he perceived that it made him lose. His bet was not huge. It had to do more with his arrogance.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Forums

[triptolemus]

I would be very surprised if any former cruise employees claimed that the DSC was equivalent to tips, as even NCL carefully avoids saying that on their own webpage.

 

Except, of course, for when NCL commonly refers to their covering the DSC for pax on a promo called "FREE GRATUITIES!"

 

:rolleyes:

[fshagan]

$614 a MONTH or less (if they get tips)!!?? Is this for all staff on the ship or just the room stewards, laundry people, lower jobs? Jeez.... to live in the bottom of a boat for 6 months away from their children and family and cater to some people (not all of course) who don't even think they deserve tips or respect? Now I know why you never see Americans working on cruise ships (unless they are part of the entertainment or higher ups).

 

The website glassdoor.com has salary reports by workers in various companies. Just like I am guaranteed minimum wage by the State of California, crew are promised a minimum monthly wage.

 

However, they earn more. According to the reports on glassdoor.com, servers report they earn $10 to $11 per hour (from about $2,016 per month based on 48 hour weeks at 4.2 weeks per month). Over 9 months the servers will earn about $18,144. See this screen shot: http://screencast.com/t/fcK4K5Dl

 

I was concerned that perhaps the Pride of America, with it's American crew, were the ones answering the glassdoor.com surveys, but the wages are the same on lines that do not have American workers in all positions, like RCL and CCL.

 

$2,016 at today's conversion rate is 96,245 Philippine Pesos. You can peruse the salaries for various occupations in the Philippines at http://www.salaryexplorer.com/salary-survey.php?loc=171&loctype=1 They are earning more than most of the workers in their home country. They work 9 months out of the year instead of 12, so their annualized salary would work out to 72,183 pesos per month for comparison purposes. That annualized amount is the same that a CFO earns, according to that site (click on the Executive and Management jobs link).

 

The portion of their check that is stated as gratuity is not taxed by the Philippine government, so they have more take home pay than the average wage earner.

 

I think they earn every peso, and I'm happy to be able to pay my cruise fare and yes, the daily service charge, to help support them and their families. But they aren't working for "slave wages". They are earning a "living wage" for their home country. At least for the Filipinos.

 

Because NCL has a large number of Filipinos working on board I only did the research for the Philippines, and not India, eastern Europe, etc.

[pspercy]

. . . . but the notion that the elite cruisers form some kind of high school like clique is laughable

 

Laughable ? Maybe, but I've seen it in Meet & Mingles.

Edited September 21, 2016 by pspercy

[suesings]

The website glassdoor.com has salary reports by workers in various companies. Just like I am guaranteed minimum wage by the State of California, crew are promised a minimum monthly wage.

 

However, they earn more. According to the reports on glassdoor.com, servers report they earn $10 to $11 per hour (from about $2,016 per month based on 48 hour weeks at 4.2 weeks per month). Over 9 months the servers will earn about $18,144. See this screen shot: http://screencast.com/t/fcK4K5Dl

 

I was concerned that perhaps the Pride of America, with it's American crew, were the ones answering the glassdoor.com surveys, but the wages are the same on lines that do not have American workers in all positions, like RCL and CCL.

 

$2,016 at today's conversion rate is 96,245 Philippine Pesos. You can peruse the salaries for various occupations in the Philippines at http://www.salaryexplorer.com/salary-survey.php?loc=171&loctype=1 They are earning more than most of the workers in their home country. They work 9 months out of the year instead of 12, so their annualized salary would work out to 72,183 pesos per month for comparison purposes. That annualized amount is the same that a CFO earns, according to that site (click on the Executive and Management jobs link).

 

The portion of their check that is stated as gratuity is not taxed by the Philippine government, so they have more take home pay than the average wage earner.

 

I think they earn every peso, and I'm happy to be able to pay my cruise fare and yes, the daily service charge, to help support them and their families. But they aren't working for "slave wages". They are earning a "living wage" for their home country. At least for the Filipinos.

 

Because NCL has a large number of Filipinos working on board I only did the research for the Philippines, and not India, eastern Europe, etc.

 

So you are saying the average Filipino room steward or waiter makes $2,016 a month? So no one makes only $614 a month?

[pokerpro5]

Still waiting for an explanation as to how NCL deducts from crew salary when DSC is removed, given that the DSC gets removed over a month after the cruise is over (due to the mail-in form process).

 

I know that chengkp95 was no longer working at NCL when this policy started last year, but I'd like to know how anyone can explain this.

 

Does NCL borrow Doc Brown's DeLorean and go back in time a month, in order to adjust each paycheck a few cents lower?

 

Also LOL at the explanation regarding the sudden appearance of the 18% services charges and twice-raised DSC in 2015. "They're just trying to give the crew a raise or retain crewmembers better."

 

Talk about a lack of understanding of how publicly traded companies work.

[atomax]

Wow, I didn't think my little post would garner so much discussion. I enjoyed reading everyone's opinions (and chengkp75's insider info - maybe you should write a book!).

 

When I asked the HD on the Pearl back in April (at one of those "Floating Hotel" presentations) who shares in the DSC, he told us that DSC was shared by cabin and wait staff. Bar staff divvy up the UBP and beverage tips, spa staff shares those tips. Everyone else on staff are on different contracts that do not partake in the DSC pool. I'd like to hope that he was being honest with the 100+ of us at the presentation.

 

As for comment cards, he definitely encouraged everyone to fill them out for exceptional service. He told us that the staff received bonuses, including cash and extra vacation days, as well as increases in their contracts, based on passenger feedback. And it doesn't cost you a thing, other than some cramped fingers (I've forgotten how to write with pen and paper, so after filling out all of our cards for that cruise, my fingers became numb!).

[chengkp75]

The website glassdoor.com has salary reports by workers in various companies. Just like I am guaranteed minimum wage by the State of California, crew are promised a minimum monthly wage.

 

However, they earn more. According to the reports on glassdoor.com, servers report they earn $10 to $11 per hour (from about $2,016 per month based on 48 hour weeks at 4.2 weeks per month). Over 9 months the servers will earn about $18,144. See this screen shot: http://screencast.com/t/fcK4K5Dl

 

I was concerned that perhaps the Pride of America, with it's American crew, were the ones answering the glassdoor.com surveys, but the wages are the same on lines that do not have American workers in all positions, like RCL and CCL.

 

$2,016 at today's conversion rate is 96,245 Philippine Pesos. You can peruse the salaries for various occupations in the Philippines at http://www.salaryexplorer.com/salary-survey.php?loc=171&loctype=1 They are earning more than most of the workers in their home country. They work 9 months out of the year instead of 12, so their annualized salary would work out to 72,183 pesos per month for comparison purposes. That annualized amount is the same that a CFO earns, according to that site (click on the Executive and Management jobs link).

 

The portion of their check that is stated as gratuity is not taxed by the Philippine government, so they have more take home pay than the average wage earner.

 

I think they earn every peso, and I'm happy to be able to pay my cruise fare and yes, the daily service charge, to help support them and their families. But they aren't working for "slave wages". They are earning a "living wage" for their home country. At least for the Filipinos.

 

Because NCL has a large number of Filipinos working on board I only did the research for the Philippines, and not India, eastern Europe, etc.

 

As I've said before, the crew make a middle class income in their home countries. I have my doubts about a lot of these cruise salary sites, but don't have any concrete data. Another factor to take into account is the crewing agency cut, which comes out of the crew's base salary, which is required to be sent to the home country.

 

And, I disagree that "gratuity" is not taxed in the Philippines. Here is a link about withholding tax in the Philippines, and it says that "—(4) Tips and gratuities – Tips or gratuities paid directly to an employee by a customer of the employer which are not accounted for by the employee to the employer are considered as taxable income but not subject to withholding." It further states that "compensation income" is all compensation received in an employer/employee relationship, regardless of how named.

 

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwi4goCYkqDPAhXn4IMKHYDIAacQFggcMAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fvicgudani.weebly.com%2Fmy-take%2Fcompensation&usg=AFQjCNETNiwvAuCIuFBP8chfHEGBpn1jKQ

[sparks1093]

Still waiting for an explanation as to how NCL deducts from crew salary when DSC is removed, given that the DSC gets removed over a month after the cruise is over (due to the mail-in form process).

 

I know that chengkp95 was no longer working at NCL when this policy started last year, but I'd like to know how anyone can explain this.

 

Does NCL borrow Doc Brown's DeLorean and go back in time a month, in order to adjust each paycheck a few cents lower?

 

Also LOL at the explanation regarding the sudden appearance of the 18% services charges and twice-raised DSC in 2015. "They're just trying to give the crew a raise or retain crewmembers better."

 

Talk about a lack of understanding of how publicly traded companies work.

 

Employers make adjustments to employees' pay after the fact all of the time- an employee takes advanced paid leave and ends up not earning it in the future, the leave is deducted from current pay; an employee receives an advance against commissions and doesn't earn enough in commissions to cover it so it's deducted from current pay. In fact one knowledgeable person on this board described crew member pay as an advance against service charge receipts with the understanding that if the service charges aren't earned the money will be recouped by the company. Is it really so hard to comprehend that NCL reduces the current pay of a crew member after the fact?

 

The pool of eligible employees to work on cruise ships is not unlimited- they have to want to work on a cruise ship first of all, they have to be qualified, they have to pass the background checks, etc. so it isn't at all difficult that a company in such a position might want to increase potential income to attract and retain crewmembers. Similar to other publicly traded companies come to think of it.

Edited September 21, 2016 by sparks1093

[sparks1093]

As I've said before, the crew make a middle class income in their home countries. I have my doubts about a lot of these cruise salary sites, but don't have any concrete data. Another factor to take into account is the crewing agency cut, which comes out of the crew's base salary, which is required to be sent to the home country.

 

And, I disagree that "gratuity" is not taxed in the Philippines. Here is a link about withholding tax in the Philippines, and it says that "—(4) Tips and gratuities – Tips or gratuities paid directly to an employee by a customer of the employer which are not accounted for by the employee to the employer are considered as taxable income but not subject to withholding." It further states that "compensation income" is all compensation received in an employer/employee relationship, regardless of how named.

 

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwi4goCYkqDPAhXn4IMKHYDIAacQFggcMAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fvicgudani.weebly.com%2Fmy-take%2Fcompensation&usg=AFQjCNETNiwvAuCIuFBP8chfHEGBpn1jKQ

 

THANK YOU! I always had my doubts about tips not being taxed by the Philippines and I'm glad you put that to rest (well, okay, in this thread but you've given me the information that I need to rebut the assertion in the future). There is a world of difference between not being subject to withholding and not being subject to tax.

[4774Papa]

chengkp75,

Is is reasonable to assume that the staff on the ship is paid according to their position. It would surprise me if room stewards were paid the same as waiters, pilots of lifeboats, entertainers or desk clerks? Also, does seniority matter. We have had waiters that have been employed for 15 years.

[chengkp75]

chengkp75,

Is is reasonable to assume that the staff on the ship is paid according to their position. It would surprise me if room stewards were paid the same as waiters, pilots of lifeboats, entertainers or desk clerks? Also, does seniority matter. We have had waiters that have been employed for 15 years.

 

Of course, each position has a different salary. Waiters and stewards are pretty close in the hierarchy of salary. Interesting that you include "pilots of lifeboats", when in fact most lifeboat crew are stewards, waiters, bartenders, or galley hands. Now, a tender skipper is usually a 4th Officer of the deck department, and as a licensed officer, he/she will make more. Seniority usually does matter (though I think this varies line to line), with each position having a "salary range", where seniority or positive evaluations by supervisor or significant numbers of positive comment cards can result in raises.

[sjbdtz]

I can say that the DSC does in fact go to the crew, and the cruise line uses it as a "motivational" tool by forcing a team attitude (one bad performer affects all our pay), and without the cruise line itself being the bad guy (we didn't reduce your pay, it was the passengers).

 

Thank you!

 

 

Before the DSC cheerleaders jump on the above as any sort of "proof" that the DSC goes to the staff,

 

 

Poker.... you seem determined to get people to see things your way. Why? What is your motivation? Do you get something out of people reducing the DSC? Do you think it will impact stock price and you can buy-in cheaper?

 

The difference between your posts & Chengkp is that he has years of posting informed, credible, responses which are not politically charged, nor appear to have any type of agenda.

 

And then, there are your posts.

 

 

Stephen

 

.

[pokerpro5]

Poker.... you seem determined to get people to see things your way. Why? What is your motivation? Do you get something out of people reducing the DSC? Do you think it will impact stock price and you can buy-in cheaper?

 

The difference between your posts & Chengkp is that he has years of posting informed, credible, responses which are not politically charged, nor appear to have any type of agenda.

 

And then, there are your posts.

 

I have no agenda. In fact, as I've said many times, I have never removed the DSC myself. I can post proof of my final folio on my upcoming cruise if anyone doubts this.

 

I do not care if people remove the DSC or keep it.

 

I simply want all consumers to make an informed decision based upon the TRUTH of the DSC.

 

I believe most of what chengkp95 posted. Most of what he wrote actually SUPPORTS what I have been saying all along. In this and other threads, chengkp75 posted that the DSC is (at least partially) kept by NCL in order to make up for employee salaries. NCL pays the DSC-pool employees lower than minimum wage, and then makes up the difference with the DSC. Basic mathematics dictates that means NCL keeps a a healthy portion of the DSC.

 

Where chengkp95 and I disagree is whether removing the DSC means that they dock crew pay every time it happens. He also concedes that he does not know the exact mechanism in which this occurs, nor has he ever seen proof that it happens. He was told by management that it happens, but more as a motivational tool to perform well. (Basically, his department was told to perform well or passengers may take it out on the DSC, thus depriving the DSC-pool employees of pay!) But that could be something they just say in order to guilt their employees into working harder.

 

I have pointed out the logistical problems with them docking pay for DSC removals. One problem is that almost all DSC removals occur because the cruiser simply doesn't believe in the DSC. Very few are staff-related, and the crew knows this. Also, on some itineraries (such as European one), DSC is removed frequently. chengkp95 conceded that they make an "allowance" for those general removals on those ships, but also admitted that again he doesn't know the exact mechanism.

 

I find it sleazy in the entire mainstream cruise industry that "tips" are kept (at least in part) by the cruise line. They should be honest where your tips are going, and then you can make an informed decision whether to pay them or ask for a refund.

 

I have a feeling that, if NCL and similar lines admitted the true destination of the DSC (the fact that much of it just makes up for paying employees sub-minimum wage), there would be a lot more removals.

 

I just want transparency, and am attempting to provide it as well as I can, while at the very least causing the customers to think a bit more critically about it.

 

What people eventually choose to do is none of my business, nor do I care.

Edited September 25, 2016 by pokerpro5

[sparks1093]

I have no agenda. In fact, as I've said many times, I have never removed the DSC myself. I can post proof of my final folio on my upcoming cruise if anyone doubts this.

 

I do not care if people remove the DSC or keep it.

 

I simply want all consumers to make an informed decision based upon the TRUTH of the DSC.

 

I believe most of what chengkp95 posted. Most of what he wrote actually SUPPORTS what I have been saying all along. In this and other threads, chengkp75 posted that the DSC is (at least partially) kept by NCL in order to make up for employee salaries. NCL pays the DSC-pool employees lower than minimum wage, and then makes up the difference with the DSC. Basic mathematics dictates that means NCL keeps a a healthy portion of the DSC.

 

Where chengkp95 and I disagree is whether removing the DSC means that they dock crew pay every time it happens. He also concedes that he does not know the exact mechanism in which this occurs, nor has he ever seen proof that it happens. He was told by management that it happens, but more as a motivational tool to perform well. (Basically, his department was told to perform well or passengers may take it out on the DSC, thus depriving the DSC-pool employees of pay!) But that could be something they just say in order to guilt their employees into working harder.

 

I have pointed out the logistical problems with them docking pay for DSC removals. One problem is that almost all DSC removals occur because the cruiser simply doesn't believe in the DSC. Very few are staff-related, and the crew knows this. Also, on some itineraries (such as European one), DSC is removed frequently. chengkp95 conceded that they make an "allowance" for those general removals on those ships, but also admitted that again he doesn't know the exact mechanism.

 

I find it sleazy in the entire mainstream cruise industry that "tips" are kept (at least in part) by the cruise line. They should be honest where your tips are going, and then you can make an informed decision whether to pay them or ask for a refund.

 

I have a feeling that, if NCL and similar lines admitted the true destination of the DSC (the fact that much of it just makes up for paying employees sub-minimum wage), there would be a lot more removals.

 

I just want transparency, and am attempting to provide it as well as I can, while at the very least causing the customers to think a bit more critically about it.

 

What people eventually choose to do is none of my business, nor do I care.

 

I have come to realize it's a matter of semantics- the service charges are used to augment crew member salaries and do allow NCL to pay a lower amount of the minimum wage but that does not mean that NCL "keeps" this money in any way shape or form and I think it's your use of the term "keep" that is causing most of the disagreement. What NCL does is no different than what other main stream lines do vis a vis crew pay nor is it substantially different than what happens with tipped employees at land based establishments- they are guaranteed a minimum that is augmented by the customer through service charges or tips and the combination of the two make up the employees' income. And I explained a few posts ago how easy it is for an employer to adjust an employee's check after the fact, it happens all of the time. Not so hard to believe that NCL also does this (and provided that the percentage of service charge removals remains relatively steady from sailing to sailing the crew actually doesn't notice a large swing one way or the other).

 

So yes, NCL has to take less out of its own pocket for crew pay because of the service charges, but that doesn't mean it is "keeping" any of the service charge as corporate revenue.