No lounge chairs on Kdam veranda deck ?

[jtl513]

The smaller promenade made way for Grand Dutch Cafe.

They designed the ship too wide for the original Panama Canal locks by 9 feet. Couldn't they have added just another 10 feet to put 5 foot deck chairs on each side in some places? :confused: That would have given more space inside as well. Edited December 9, 2016 by jtl513

[RocketMan275]

They designed the ship too wide for the original Panama locks ... I forget by how many feet. Couldn't they have added just another 10 feet to put 5 foot deck chairs on each side in some places? :confused: That would have given more space inside as well.

 

Do you have an idea how much that would have added to the price of the ship or the fares?

[OceanTraveller4ever]

The smaller promenade made way for Grand Dutch Cafe.

 

Point, Koningsdam!

 

umm.....aren't all the other cruise ships crowding out or eliminating the promenade for some money grabbing space.

So, the last cruise line that still has a very endearing feature that no other line has, is letting it go for space to sit more fat behinds........

 

Enjoy your Cafe, I will enjoy my envigorating walks, as well as the happy folks enjoying the promenade (on the Vista class).

Edited December 9, 2016 by OceanTraveller4ever

[jtl513]

Do you have an idea how much that would have added to the price of the ship or the fares?

No, but I would bet a very small percentage. No more than changing from a 105.8 foot beam on the previous ships to a 114.8 foot beam.

 

... is letting it go for space to sit more fat behinds........

I believe the primary reason was to turn the deck 4 lifeboat-obstructed OV cabins on other classes into "verandahs".

 

I will not be back on the K'dam unless sometime it offers a very unique itinerary or super pricing.

.

Edited December 9, 2016 by jtl513

[bUU]

Do you have an idea how much that would have added to the price of the ship or the fares?

This gets to the real heart of the matter. In the end, it boils down to where each person draws the line between recognition of their own personal preferences and recognition that the cruise line exists for other purposes. Some people will see no line - see only that their personal preferences aren't satisfied as they would wish and therefore someone else must have made a mistake, or worse, someone did something perhaps deliberately as an affront to their sensibilities, therefore justifying the affront they themselves afford those who find the differences pleasing. The reality is closer to the opposite: That what we see offered is perhaps the most accurate and timely reflection of what the typical passenger prefers.

[jtl513]

That what we see offered is perhaps the most accurate and timely reflection of what the typical passenger prefers.

Except when typical passenger preference runs heavily against what is offered, as in this case.

[bUU]

Except when typical passenger preference runs heavily against what is offered, as in this case.

Perhaps you could clarify that because it sounds almost like sour grapes and a rationalization for being mean to people who disagree with you.

 

There is no reason to believe any passenger knows more about typical passenger preference than people who have the resources and charter to know such things. Furthermore, there is no justification for the deprecation of folks who appreciate what the offerings show to be typical passenger preferences.

[2LoveBikes]

I agree with Ken the Cruiser about the ONE WAY signs being absent on all of the HAL ships I sailed on. This truly is a safety concern and I don't know why HAL is reluctant to address this issue. I personally have written on comment cards, the Front Office and ships officer but have not received any explanation why they won't change.

 

I have even seen passengers using walkers going the opposite way on the p/deck while a jogger (yes jogger) is going the other way.

 

 

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[RocketMan275]

No, but I would bet a very small percentage. No more than changing from a 105.8 foot beam on the previous ships to a 114.8 foot beam.

 

 

At the very least, that is an increase of approximately 10%. Are you willing to pay an additional 10% in fares to have a promenade? Do you think other passengers would also prefer that increase?

[jtl513]

At the very least, that is an increase of approximately 10%.

I highly doubt that. Compared to the total cost of the ship I doubt it would add 0.1% Do you think if the beam was kept at 105.8 ft it would have saved 10%? I'm sure if that was true, you would see the smaller width.

[dockman]

I agree with Ken the Cruiser about the ONE WAY signs being absent on all of the HAL ships I sailed on. This truly is a safety concern and I don't know why HAL is reluctant to address this issue. I personally have written on comment cards, the Front Office and ships officer but have not received any explanation why they won't change.

 

I have even seen passengers using walkers going the opposite way on the p/deck while a jogger (yes jogger) is going the other way.

 

 

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It always irritates me when people ignore the NO JOGGING signs and still jog on the LP decks. Not only does it create problems for walkers safety wise it also often creates noise for the cabins directly under the deck.

 

Whether these people can't see/read the signs, don't care, or simply have no clue that there are cabins beneath ....and of course the crew is way to polite to tell the joggers to knock it off...even the officers seem reluctant to say anything.

 

The VAST majority of walkers go in a counterclockwise direction but of course a few choose to go the other way... i can semi understand this as there are some walkers/lookers who walk three or four abreast and seem oblivious to others coming up behind them or wishing to go at a bit faster pace. The LP deck is often a very popular busy place especially when arriving or departing a port. Fortunately most people do honor the no jogging rules which makes it more pleasant/safer for all users.

Edited December 9, 2016 by dockman

[EDLOS]

This gets to the real heart of the matter. In the end, it boils down to where each person draws the line between recognition of their own personal preferences and recognition that the cruise line exists for other purposes. Some people will see no line - see only that their personal preferences aren't satisfied as they would wish and therefore someone else must have made a mistake, or worse, someone did something perhaps deliberately as an affront to their sensibilities, therefore justifying the affront they themselves afford those who find the differences pleasing. The reality is closer to the opposite: That what we see offered is perhaps the most accurate and timely reflection of what the typical passenger prefers.

 

I seriously doubt that HAL convenes Focus Groups for input on their ships on passenger preferences. If they have, I am certain we would have heard about it on Cruise Critic. I sail HAL because of it's differences from Princess, Celebrity, RCC, etc. It keeps me loyal. When you blur the differences, you are likely to lose that loyalty

[Ken the cruiser]

I agree with Ken the Cruiser about the ONE WAY signs being absent on all of the HAL ships I sailed on. This truly is a safety concern and I don't know why HAL is reluctant to address this issue. I personally have written on comment cards, the Front Office and ships officer but have not received any explanation why they won't change.

 

I have even seen passengers using walkers going the opposite way on the p/deck while a jogger (yes jogger) is going the other way.

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Forums

 

Good news! We just got off the Amsterdam and there were ONE WAY signs on their promenade as well as on the Veendam when we cruised on her this past January. So, hopefully this trend will continue.

[jtl513]

Perhaps you could clarify that ...

Just read the threads on this forum. Far more people express displeasure than pleasure with the K'dam "promenade".

.

Edited December 9, 2016 by jtl513

[RocketMan275]

I highly doubt that. Compared to the total cost of the ship I doubt it would add 0.1% Do you think if the beam was kept at 105.8 ft it would have saved 10%? I'm sure if that was true, you would see the smaller width.

 

The cost of the ship is roughly proportional to the displacement. Keeping the length constant while increasing the bean by 10% will, as a first order approximation, increase the cost of the ship by 10%.

 

Increasing the beam by 10% will also increase the drag on the ship increasing operational costs.

 

Yes, you could have saved around 10% by adopting a beam of 105 feet. However, the architect decided that adding an additional beam would allow him to incorporate additional features to attract passengers increasing revenues and profits. Every feature added reduces the ability to add other features. Additional deck space for loungers was not cost effective.

[fusion927]

Just read the threads on this forum. Far more people express displeasure than pleasure with the K'dam "promenade".

.

 

In about 10-11 cruises, the only time we've spent sitting on the promenade deck was during the passage through the Panama Canal. The rest of the time we are on the Promenade deck is doing laps, or standing at the rail watching the arrival or departure line (and ship) handling.

 

And we had no issues doing either during our two weeks on the Koningsdam in the Caribbean...

[RocketMan275]

Just read the threads on this forum. Far more people express displeasure than pleasure with the K'dam "promenade".

.

 

It's extremely doubtful that the people expressing displeasure on Cruise Critic are representative of the cruising public. But, laying that aside, perhaps you can explain why Holland would purposefully design a ship with a feature that most potential customers would prefer?

[RocketMan275]

I seriously doubt that HAL convenes Focus Groups for input on their ships on passenger preferences. If they have, I am certain we would have heard about it on Cruise Critic. I sail HAL because of it's differences from Princess, Celebrity, RCC, etc. It keeps me loyal. When you blur the differences, you are likely to lose that loyalty

 

Do you think a cruise line would spend the amounts of money necessary to build a new cruise ship without doing market research on the features that would attract passengers?

 

Cruise critic is not the center of gravity of the cruising world. FYI, there have been reports of surveys where respondents were requested not to publicize their contributions. I would not be surprised if focus groups were subject to Non Disclosure Agreements since they would be exposed to proprietary information.

[Cruising-along]

In about 10-11 cruises, the only time we've spent sitting on the promenade deck was during the passage through the Panama Canal. The rest of the time we are on the Promenade deck is doing laps, or standing at the rail watching the arrival or departure line (and ship) handling.

 

And we had no issues doing either during our two weeks on the Koningsdam in the Caribbean...

 

I'm glad to hear this, because we'll be on the Koningsdam for 2 weeks next month and that's what we like to do too. Daily laps are a large part of our cruise enjoyment. So the narrow areas didn't cause a problem for you?

[Tennessee Titan]

I'm glad to hear this, because we'll be on the Koningsdam for 2 weeks next month and that's what we like to do too. Daily laps are a large part of our cruise enjoyment. So the narrow areas didn't cause a problem for you?

"Narrow" areas, only aft adjacent to the MDR, caused us no problems whatsoever.

I remember on the NA all of the loungers who moved their lounges from the lounge row out next to the rail, efffectively blocking the walking lane. The K arrangement is much better....

[Ken the cruiser]

Let me just say even though we had some issues on our initial 14 day K'dam cruise to the North Cape back in July, the ship itself is pretty cool and I would highly recommend taking a cruise on her IF she has an itinerary you would enjoy. Yes, there are no lounge chairs on the promenade, but there is still a promenade you can walk on or stand by the rail and see what you can see. Yes, the promenade is tight in some places, but wide enough to walk on. Yes, the Lido buffet is busy, but so was the Lido buffet on the Amsterdam we just disembarked from.

 

However, there are some very cool additions also that are not on any of the other HAL ships. For one, you get to meet inside during muster instead of lining up on the promenade. That was always a fun event. They have a culinary arts center now like they have on some of the Oceania ships with cooking stations which for a small fee you can learn how to cook a dish which you subsequently get to eat. They have some great new dining areas which all offer great food, and, of course, there is the World Stage, which is in a class of its own with a 270 degree movie screen wall with 12 million LED bulbs. They also have quite the variety of entertainment venues as well as a ton of places you can sneak off to when you want to enjoy reading a good book.

 

So before you decide to write off the K'dam because of a small promenade deck or a dinky library, you may want to check out all of the cool new areas she has to offer.

 

OK, I'll get off the soap box now. I just had to say something positive about the K'dam as there is a lot of negative getting thrown around on this thread, some by those who haven't even cruised on her yet.

[Tennessee Titan]

let me just say even though we had some issues on our initial 14 day k'dam cruise to the north cape back in july, the ship itself is pretty cool and i would highly recommend taking a cruise on her if she has an itinerary you would enjoy. Yes, there are no lounge chairs on the promenade, but there is still a promenade you can walk on or stand by the rail and see what you can see. Yes, the promenade is tight in some places, but wide enough to walk on. Yes, the lido buffet is busy, but so was the lido buffet on the amsterdam we just disembarked from.

 

However, there are some very cool additions also that are not on any of the other hal ships. For one, you get to meet inside during muster instead of lining up on the promenade. That was always a fun event. They have a culinary arts center now like they have on some of the oceania ships with cooking stations which for a small fee you can learn how to cook a dish which you subsequently get to eat. They have some great new dining areas which all offer great food, and, of course, there is the world stage, which is in a class of its own with a 270 degree movie screen wall with 12 million led bulbs. They also have quite the variety of entertainment venues as well as a ton of places you can sneak off to when you want to enjoy reading a good book.

 

So before you decide to write off the k'dam because of a small promenade deck or a dinky library, you may want to check out all of the cool new areas she has to offer.

 

Ok, i'll get off the soap box now. I just had to say something positive about the k'dam as there is a lot of negative getting thrown around on this thread, some by those who haven't even cruised on her yet.

 

hear, hear! +1

[sppunk]

Just read the threads on this forum. Far more people express displeasure than pleasure with the K'dam "promenade".

.

On my 11 day cruise that ended this past week, I never heard a single complaint about the promenade deck.

 

I heard tons about the library and how "European" the ship was, but not a single word about the promenade. I walked it every day for about 30 minutes and could count the number of people I saw walking on one hand.

 

HAL has internal data that show it is one of the least utilized spaces on the boat. They followed the trend.

[RocketMan275]

HAL has internal data that show it is one of the least utilized spaces on the boat. They followed the trend.

 

But, they didn't check with the cruising experts here on Cruise Critic.

[Boytjie]

I highly doubt that. Compared to the total cost of the ship I doubt it would add 0.1% Do you think if the beam was kept at 105.8 ft it would have saved 10%? I'm sure if that was true, you would see the smaller width.

 

You have to consider that widening the ship creates a bigger volume that has to be filled with something, so the cost is not just related to the hull and superstructure but also the interior.